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Fuzzbucket

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It just seems extremely redundant to me. Even if a user refuses to make a forums account, they can still read the news post. You can't expect TJ to implement a feature simply because a user decides against using a large part of the site that is readily available to everyone.

 

As for the "countries block all forums" things, I was unable to find a single instance of it upon Google searching O.o If you can find examples of countries that block it, rather than just saying that "countries" do, that would help strengthen your argument.

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I really don't see any harm in this as long as the longer posts are kept on a separate page so they don't clutter the front page too much. What is there to object to? It just gives everyone a level playing field for releases and events, whether they are on the forum or not.

 

I suspect there are many more than we imagine who play the game but don't have forum access. Because, guess what? They don't have forum access to come here and tell us about it!!!

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It just seems extremely redundant to me. Even if a user refuses to make a forums account, they can still read the news post. You can't expect TJ to implement a feature simply because a user decides against using a large part of the site that is readily available to everyone.

 

As for the "countries block all forums" things, I was unable to find a single instance of it upon Google searching O.o If you can find examples of countries that block it, rather than just saying that "countries" do, that would help strengthen your argument.

The UK was about to, but there was an outcry (you can find that discussed in GD here somewhere !) and there are a couple of people here who have mentioned it. I have a vague recollection of N Korea or I might mean S Korea; not sure... my geog is a bit dodgy. I will research - but not now as I am in the middle of some real life ! Also most schools, many colleges - and a lot of players play from college.

 

And what about children who are allowed to play but whose parents use forum blocking software (see libbylishly's post !)

 

ETA parts of Pakistan; apparently parts of China; Iran; it SAYS Indonesia, but I thought we had a forum member from there... (sadly the links I find these on are all long discussions, so I have to stop again...)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I'd be all right with this. Really, I'd prefer the implementation of some sort of RSS feed for the news posts over taking up any more scroll space.

 

I've got no kiddies of my own, but I can understand wanting to access the news posts when one can't use the forums due to parental controls, age limits, or filtering systems.

 

Keep in mind that many kids aren't just running amok online. In addition to the parental or academic filters, some public libraries put filters on the computers that children and teens use to keep their viewing safe.

 

Editing to add: TJ probably already posts news twice when he updates the DC Facebook or Twitter feeds.

Edited by Jazeki

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The UK was about to, but there was an outcry (you can find that discussed in GD here somewhere !) and there are a couple of people here who have mentioned it. I have a vague recollection of N Korea or I might mean S Korea; not sure... my geog is a bit dodgy. I will research - but not now as I am in the middle of some real life ! Also most schools, many colleges - and a lot of players play from college.

 

And what about children who are allowed to play but whose parents use forum blocking software (see libbylishly's post !)

 

ETA parts of Pakistan; apparently parts of China; Iran; it SAYS Indonesia, but I thought we had a forum member from there... (sadly the links I find these on are all long discussions, so I have to stop again...)

Most of the countries you name block most internet access, not just forums(and free speech, and democracy, while we're at it...).

 

Actually, they might block DC completely if the content increases to such a thing as where you can readily access and maybe even comment on news. Same for parental software, they usually block on certain keywords, which might be present on a new site.

 

About the UK: well, the mass media ALWAYS makes it look as bad as they can, but there was no such thing as blocking all forums just on the premise of it being a forum. But hey, keep on trusting the true and impartial daily sun. blink.gif

 

So, still - while i am not (very) opposed to the proposition, i feel that doing something for the very wrong reasons is still a bad thing.

 

--

 

 

About the whole kids issue: It's a social problem thats present anyway, what's your next agenda? make another domain and webpage that's identical to dc but does not use the words games, dragons or any such things in order to circumvent parental software that blocks games?

 

=> The parent is responsible, for blocking as well as the consequences the same parent would be responsible for not acting. Since its the legal guardian of the children in question, I would deem it very suspicious for a website to provide means to get around the blocks of someone who's very legally entitled to block the forums.....

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Personally, I don't like the new layout on the front page. It makes the map look squished and the 'news' posts are just stubs.

 

What I would like to see is a 'News' link up there with the others. If the post is new it should be marked somehow. The link would take you to a separate page and would only show posts by TJ, mods and/or artists as necessary.

 

I rarely read past the first post anyway, because I find most of the discussions either confusing or too full of speculation and wishful thinking to be worth reading.

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I already find the news section in the main page quite invasive.

 

Please if we have to have them on the scroll too - and I don't find that so important, since till few days ago everyone who didn't follow the forum simpy didn't have any news at all - make it as an option one can disable

Edited by Iside

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I already find the news section in the main page quite invasive.

 

Please if we have to have them on the scroll too - and I don't find that so important, since till few days ago everyone who didn't follow the forum simpy didn't have any news at all - make it as an option one can disable

It would be a problem for you if it were on a separate page ?

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Exactly what Whitebaron said; all those countries censor a whole lot more than just forums, and likely ban the site already, or will if we introduce this feature.

 

I'm not vehemently against the idea, but I just don't really support it; it seems redundant, and there are other features I'd much rather see reach the site, like fixing the broken refusals mechanic.

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Exactly what Whitebaron said; all those countries censor a whole lot more than just forums, and likely ban the site already, or will if we introduce this feature.

 

I'm not vehemently against the idea, but I just don't really support it; it seems redundant, and there are other features I'd much rather see reach the site, like fixing the broken refusals mechanic.

Schools. libraries, universities ? Children who love their scrolls ? You are hardhearted, Pie biggrin.gif

 

And what's BROKEN about refusals ? xd.png They were never intended to be undone !

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It would be a problem for you if it were on a separate page ?

Just don't want news steal space on the scroll page (the one with your dragons) too.

If they were on a separate page, or you could decide to show / hide them as an account option, that wouldn't be a problem.

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Schools. libraries, universities ? Children who love their scrolls ? You are hardhearted, Pie biggrin.gif

 

And what's BROKEN about refusals ? xd.png They were never intended to be undone !

If a school's wifi is blocking the forums, then the person probably shouldn't be using the site there anyway. I know that my school doesn't block them, though obviously, I can't speak for everyone. And please don't call me names; that is how drama starts, and I'd like to try to avoid that.

 

That's a discussion for another thread ("Refuse to Have Refusals!"), but I was using it as an example.

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Support, as long as more than TJ's posts are shown. For example, at the Halloween Carnival event, there was the post with all the sprites. Or with dragon releases, where sometimes the sprinter or concept creator will add additional information. I would like those to be on there too.

 

This. On a separate page, with no commenting option is a great idea in my opinion. Technically, you should be able to completely play the game without the forums at all, so I think this will make it better.

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This. On a separate page, with no commenting option is a great idea in my opinion. Technically, you should be able to completely play the game without the forums at all, so I think this will make it better.

One could argue that technically, the forums ARE part of the site.

 

Ironically, the more people argue for this, the less i am in agreement with this suggestion.

 

Schools, libraries, universities block stuff for very good reasons! And most of them do not block pages explicitly, thats not how web filtering works, usually. Any change that makes the mainpage more “social media“ might mean for players from those locations that it gets blocked entirely.

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One could argue that technically, the forums ARE part of the site.

 

Ironically, the more people argue for this, the less i am in agreement with this suggestion.

 

Schools, libraries, universities block stuff for very good reasons! And most of them do not block pages explicitly, thats not how web filtering works, usually. Any change that makes the mainpage more “social media“ might mean for players from those locations that it gets blocked entirely.

As someone studying library and information science and heading into that field (and the educational aspect by proxy), I just want to clarify that blocking/filtering material generally has nothing to do with the "social media" aspect of the site. Many schools and libraries (in the US at least) are pushing in favor of social media as a means of improving literacy.

 

Those schools that do block social media sites like Facebook, Tumblr, and others do so because the site content is considered not to be age-appropriate for younger audiences or they don't want any students using the internet for leisure purposes, not because they are social media sites. Educational institutions want to keep their students focused on educational materials rather than on any games or distractions during school hours. Filtering has more to do with what is considered to be appropriate or educational content, usually established through keywording or some other means. While not often used, it is possible to block by site. When I was in high school, the filters were set to block all sites that allowed access to personal email (among other things) and consequently as we students figured out how to get around the filters, any other sites that we were using instead.

 

Having the news posts available on the non-forum site wouldn't do anything to emphasize "social media." Nothing about the main site (save for the social media buttons) encourages socialization. Plain-text news posts would be there for informing players only. It seems clear that if people want to chat about Dragon Cave, then they would go on the forums.

Edited by Jazeki

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Personally, I don't like the new layout on the front page. It makes the map look squished and the 'news' posts are just stubs.

 

What I would like to see is a 'News' link up there with the others. If the post is new it should be marked somehow. The link would take you to a separate page and would only show posts by TJ, mods and/or artists as necessary.

 

I rarely read past the first post anyway, because I find most of the discussions either confusing or too full of speculation and wishful thinking to be worth reading.

 

 

 

A link would be ideal!

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Personally I do support this as when I first started this site I never touched the forums. I never knew about new dragons until I came on and saw the new critters. Usually by then I was either to late to catch them in the cave or never saw them at all until much later. Of course now I check the forums periodically but I must say I did feel left out when I never knew there was a new dragon or an event happening. I don't mind the stubs but it would be nice to have at least a page detailing at least the most recent things. I don't see why this site couldn't do that. Many others like Sylestia or Magistream have news right smack dab on the main sites front page. So why can't Dragon Cave do this as well? I could give off other sites that do this and work just fine. Chicken Smoothie as well as Eldemore. Those are just the few examples of sites that at least give information of events or new anythings right on the first page.

Anyways I am done now. I said my peace about how I feel. I do believe this would make it MUCH more fair to others like me who aren't on the forums much or those incapable of being on the forums. That is all ^^

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Do NOT love the new layout of the Cave Page. Couldn't it be a smaller something at the top, like our 'sickness' alert or something?

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Do NOT love the new layout of the Cave Page. Couldn't it be a smaller something at the top, like our 'sickness' alert or something?

That's not exactly what this suggestion is about...

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If a school's wifi is blocking the forums, then the person probably shouldn't be using the site there anyway. I know that my school doesn't block them, though obviously, I can't speak for everyone. And please don't call me names; that is how drama starts, and I'd like to try to avoid that.

 

That's a discussion for another thread ("Refuse to Have Refusals!"), but I was using it as an example.

Sorry - I thought hardhearted was fairly harmless.

 

But when I was at work, we were allowed to be on line during out lunch breaks - but some sites were blocked just the same. Similar principle; schools often allow ebaying and so on in the library over lunch... but often block forums for content reasons.

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All this fuss about duplicate postings... There's a very easy way around that, you know. TJ could post the news to a separate page on the main DC site, then link to that page/post from the news feed on the front page, and from the first post of the forum news thread. Just reverse the priority (put DC first, rather than forums first) and the problem is solved without ever being a problem in the first place.

 

I would also be all for a News button rather than the news feed. But it would need to have some sort of indication of when there really is new news, or a date of last update, or something, so people know when to check it. Perhaps that is where a single line at the top of the scroll page would be appropriate, to announce that there is something to see behind the News button.

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I'd like to clarify a few things first. From the "Patch Notes" thread which appears to be closed now:

Eef:

What I personally don't understand is why you're (or anyone else is) against the first post of a news thread to be on the main site as well...it makes a lot of sense to me. It's true you don't need a form account to read the news posts, but some people aren't allowed and some just don't want to view the forum. Why not make the first post available on the main site?

 

I don't know why we're getting caught up on education and child-raising...

Fuzzbucket:

Thanks, ELF - my point precisely. Though the child raising issue was brought up in terms of - those with children who play "should" allow them on forum and "should watch them every moment they are on line". NOT possible for most of us - and that still leaves the question of those in COUNTRIES or with ISPs who block forums.

@Eef: I never said I am against having the news on the main site. I just disagree with Fuzzbucket saying things like "supervision every moment young children are online is simply not possible", based on my plans regarding child raising. My SO and me are in our early 30ies, we built a house last year and have two rooms upstairs which could turn into children's rooms as soon as we feel we are ready. So I have been thinking about raising children a LOT. I do not have to have children to disagree with Fuzzbucket on this.

@Fuzzbucket: I also never said people "should" allow them on forum and "should" watch them every moment. I prefer to not dictate other people how to handle their children. If you look back, you will see that I wrote "I have a clear idea how I would do things & therefore cannot agree with what you're saying and you have your own way of living or "life", as you like to say" at the end, meaning that we have just different views & that's fine.

 

As for this suggestion, I am not for/against it - I do not care about the results. But this does not mean I agree with everything that's being said. Nor does it mean I shouldn't feel about this as another "for DC forum typical overreaction"(myself not excluded from overreacting at times). Two weeks ago we didn't have any way to get news apart from visiting the forum and now that we have at least something on the main site, it is still not good enough and people are screaming that the people who do not come to the forum are "MANY" (proof? How do we know?) and "IT IS NOT FAIR" etc etc.

 

Anyway...

- young children: I already made it clear that I would not let my children idle their time away on the internet without regulations & supervision.

a.) I would have no problem to have them visit the news post on the forum together with me/another person I trust => no problem for me/us

b.) If my children were not allowed to visit the forums before, nothing has changed for them actually, they can still collect their eggies => I could continue to keep my children informed after reading the news myself

 

- countries which block forums: as others have stated already, most of these countries block more than forums. There are for instance Chinese who do not know about the Tiananmen Square Massacre because of the cencorship. Have a fellow German friend who lives in Beijing and her co-worker hadn't heard about it before!

And yet, I remember at least 3 Chinese people who I have talked in English/Chinese & more on this forum.

 

Yes, people miss out details if they do not go to the forum. But past events were always shown on the main site from what I recall. With having a "*insert month here* release" link to the forum on the main site now people at least know there are new eggs, which is definitely an improvement.

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@Eef: I never said I am against having the news on the main site. I just disagree with Fuzzbucket saying things like "supervision every moment young children are online is simply not possible", based on my plans regarding child raising. My SO and me are in our early 30ies, we built a house last year and have two rooms upstairs which could turn into children's rooms as soon as we feel we are ready. So I have been thinking about raising children a LOT. I do not have to have children to disagree with Fuzzbucket on this.

I see, I misunderstood you then. o: Sorry about that! Though, I do think it would still be hard to monitor a child's every moment online, at the very least. But either way, I don't think it should really be much of a point for or against the suggestion. I think it should be left at: "Some parents do not want their children on a forum, so it would be good to have the full news post on the main site". Doesn't really matter about the supervision tactics used by the parent other than not wanting them on forums. o:

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I see, I misunderstood you then. o: Sorry about that! Though, I do think it would still be hard to monitor a child's every moment online, at the very least. But either way, I don't think it should really be much of a point for or against the suggestion. I think it should be left at: "Some parents do not want their children on a forum, so it would be good to have the full news post on the main site". Doesn't really matter about the supervision tactics used by the parent other than not wanting them on forums. o:

(I have no doubt that I or another trust-worthy person will be able to monitor my children's every moment online at home. There are passwords for the PC and if that does not work there is still the option of having the PC in a locked room - unless you have a spoilt & violent mons- uh child. I do not think my children will need their own PC for quite a while.)

 

And no, I have to disagree with you unfortunately. I do think it matters as in "who is responsible?".

You want the change for:

- people who do not choose to come to the forum => having a choice is always a wonderful thing, as we all know.

- very young players who are not allowed on the forum and where the parents use forum blockers => parents have all the means to protect/nurture their children and watch out for them.

- people with location-dependet restrictions => school/library/work...that block things for you so you can concentrate on the things you should do there, I'd say.

- people who live in howshouldIsayit "difficult" countries => oh well.

 

 

You are asking TJ to make a change for something he just implemented, something he could have done himself from the beginning but didn't. Didn't Fuzzbucket say there was some old thread?

I might be wrong of course, but I think that the news are linked to the forum from the main site on purpose. To have more people visit & join the forum, "fresh blood".

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