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TheNumericDolfin

Who keeps breeding one egg to abandon? Massbreed

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Well, with times back up where they can be influenced again, just sent a truckload of PB 2G blacktips to the AP (252, to be exact.) Figure by the time they arrive the timing should be good to help keep AP times in that 3-4d range without dropping it into 2d territory. Getting decidedly more "no egg produced" attempts this time, probably a good sign that my ratio-punching is working, might even manage to nudge the market price to 300 by the end of this year! Also, now's probably a good time for anybody trying to get something OTHER than a blacktip from a blacktip x whatever pairing.

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Yeah, keep up that good ratio work, Amahira!

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Posted (edited)

I wish we could somehow see AP backlog statistics so we could figure out when to do AP breedings in order to keep the times between 3d 1h and 4d 23h forever. But I guess that's not exactly what the game was meant to be like.  :lol: 

 

 

Edit:

I sure hope I timed this (small) AP breeding run right for the eggs to remain influenceable!

 

Spoiler

image.png.af59f132c777867951f42c2c79b5c43c.png

 

 

Edited by Confused Cat

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21 hours ago, Keileon said:

Yeah, keep up that good ratio work, Amahira!

For the statistics junkies, I took the data from my breeding spreadsheet and made some fancy-pants charts about the volume of eggs produced. Got yearly charts showing all my massbreeds and one just comparing my "mega" full-army massbreeds from the past three years. Even with the raw data from the spreadsheet, I didn't quite realize how much my celestial output has shifted since I started my horde until I put it into a visual format like that! 😅

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2 hours ago, Firefury Amahira said:

For the statistics junkies, I took the data from my breeding spreadsheet and made some fancy-pants charts about the volume of eggs produced. Got yearly charts showing all my massbreeds and one just comparing my "mega" full-army massbreeds from the past three years. Even with the raw data from the spreadsheet, I didn't quite realize how much my celestial output has shifted since I started my horde until I put it into a visual format like that! 😅

 

Wow, you can really see the difference! 

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Looks like the cave has returned to normal-ish level of low time eggs.

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... Oh no, the Blacktips of totally unknown origin are here - and I only have room for one, and I don't want to freeze nice 2nd gens...

 

Good timing! The 250 eggs really shouldn't push the time down to 3 days, but could make a difference for those who don't have an army of Reds.  :)

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After the walls that wouldn't end, seeing the blacktip wall is actually kind of comforting in a weird way

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I think in the long term doing more frequent but smaller massbreeds of just my CBs is going to be more effective at pulling the ratios than doing a few mega-massbreeds every year of my full blacktip horde. Plus more frequent but much shorter walls of PB 2Gs has got to be a lot less obnoxious for everyone else than the absurdly huge walls of messies that I get from the full army massbreeds. I'm actually starting to work on doing higher-gen PB blacktip lineages too!

 

Interesting though, that while in both my mini and mega massbreedings the number of breeding attempts continues to climb, the blacktip egg output is remaining pretty static. 286 attempts in February this year and 373 attempts in this latest batch, yet both massbreeds only generated about 250 eggs despite the latter massbreed involving about 100 more pairs. For the mega massbreeds, 1385 pairs in December 2019 and 1681 pairs just a couple weeks ago both stayed pretty close to roughly 1,500 blacktip eggs despite the latter massbreed having 300 more breeding pairs involved. I think I may be hitting a plateau in possible massbreed egg output!

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9 hours ago, Firefury Amahira said:

I think in the long term doing more frequent but smaller massbreeds of just my CBs is going to be more effective at pulling the ratios than doing a few mega-massbreeds every year of my full blacktip horde. Plus more frequent but much shorter walls of PB 2Gs has got to be a lot less obnoxious for everyone else than the absurdly huge walls of messies that I get from the full army massbreeds. I'm actually starting to work on doing higher-gen PB blacktip lineages too!

 

I would imagine this is true, because smaller walls could perhaps mean a larger percentage of actually adopted Blacktips, instead of just hatch-and-release practices? I've heard that wild dragons do not contribute to the ratio issues.

It's kind of a bummer that ratio punching in such a huge scale is even necessary due to the current ecology calculations. (I took a little time to read discussions to better understand the massbreed situations.)

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Have we ever heard from TJ they don't count or is that just a user assumption? I'd find it a bit weird if that's true because ratios seem to be affected once an egg is laid, it'd be weird to take numbers out. How would that apply to burned scrolls? Or released dragons? Like if it has a /view I feel it should count.

 

Anyway I'd like to request some Leodon breedings today, need to beat the ratio v.v

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45 minutes ago, Tinibree said:

Have we ever heard from TJ they don't count or is that just a user assumption? I'd find it a bit weird if that's true because ratios seem to be affected once an egg is laid, it'd be weird to take numbers out. How would that apply to burned scrolls? Or released dragons? Like if it has a /view I feel it should count.

 

Anyway I'd like to request some Leodon breedings today, need to beat the ratio v.v

Sending 10 Leodons :D Better than all my other attempts, and it was only from 3 leos! (4 dragons, all bred with celestials, 1 'no interest')

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1 hour ago, Tinibree said:

Have we ever heard from TJ they don't count or is that just a user assumption?

He has said something to this effect a long time ago. I just don't remember in which context that was - maybe his own boss thread?

If I recall correctly, at the same time, he also mentioned that each creature counts for only 1 year (so players culling their scrolls by removing old stuff won't actually affect the ratios negatively.)

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say, of all the walls and complaints re: mass breedings, benfits pro & con, etc..... I think talking and discussing stuff and suggestions is nice (assuming it is done constructively) because it will often educate players who may not know histories, preferences, impacts, etc. and when someone has a "new idea" it is sometimes nice to refer them to threads where those ideas have been brought up before so they can go show a new resurge of support for it (as TJ as shown several times, that over time, he is willing to try new things and implement new things or tweak or whatever he does that might not have been able or willing or whatnot {lower priority, didn't see the need at the time, etc}, to be very willing to try new things and change things up and give things a chance and relook at old topics). And I think we should positively give credit where credit is do, and keep that conversation constructive and moving forward. It is fine to re-educate people and give them some deeper history and deeper reasonings (even just theories) behind things and practices that have evolved over the years with older players. This is how we learn, grown, evolve and change as a Player Base.

 

But the Player Community has also had a ***TON*** of success when it takes actions and turns things into activities and events and player engaged action to help make things more positive and fun and also help resolve what may be "issues" or perceived issues. Walls and MassBreedings were something that were so hated by some people, and some people did do it just for the lulz and not in a fun way, but mostly it really usually also at least boiled down to ratios to some degree and the lineages were not the same egg over and over with messy crazy lineages except for sometimes people who went out of their way to collect super LONG GEN inbred crazy lineages and breed those with other of that same ilk to expand it even further to get as high gens and as much inbreeding and messiness and possible (and that, truly, to be fair, is an art in and of itself, and something many people actively collect and swap!! How is that for a change over the inbred clean patterned lineage preference or even snobbery we often see?!?!? Everyone finds a way to flip things on their head and be fun!).

 

But then we started having MassBreeding Events. Or Even reminding people to "dust off their dragons and do breeding themes" or suggestions to get their brains going because some of us have a lot of dragons, and we forget we have some nice lineages, or just simple but nice lineages, they just aren't our more in demand dragons and when you have 2K-12K or more dragons like some people do, well... they are easy to overlook. That grouping was nice! But when we have these themed Events (I like to call them Breeding Events vs. MassBreeding Events, because really... they are focused on Breeding specific themes and fun things and really highly encouraged to do patterned, nicer lineages, or if they are a messier lineage they prefer the that exception only to really to be like to make it something like a BSA so at least someone who needs to grow their BSA army will be able to use it... and even then... people are encouraged that if they feel left out because they can't breed "non-messy lines" because they are newer and that is all they have and that is all they got, we try to direct them to the 397858420 gifting groups, threads, and individuals who will breed them nice non-messy lines and give them two dragons of whatever they want to them breed together to make nice babies... I am writing all of this long stuff out to make a point, so please stick with me).....

 

So now we have all these really cool Breeding Events (run by players, not by Admin, Mods, Staff, although sometimes the Staff, Mods, Spriters, etc. like to get involved because it was something they did before their promotion or they just think it would really be fun, because they are still players too), and they always have great responses, and people at first were so against the "mass breeding and walls" that they didn't think it would work and were highly dubious at first and upset. And then people started breeding various themes to celebrate holidays, make holidaykin for people to collect at specific times of year to help inspire them or get them mates for upcoming holidays, to get groups together to send more BSA's to the AP, various colors and/or other dragon themes for different Causes, Seasons, or just to send Pretty Checkers, Stairs, Etc. to the AP for people to collect. And because so many people love these, LOTS of people participate, there are TONS of different variety and they are almost all decent lineages and fun and pretty to collect. Or to even hatch and gift hatchlings and people are eager to snap up those hatchlings for those same reasons. These are dragons people want. So just because something is a "mass breeding" doesn't necessarily make it bad, and just because someone starts as a mass breeder and it is annoying for periods of time, I often find that over time they begin to cull their breeding attempts to more preferred variations of the breed like Purebred lines, Patterns, fun Checkers, SAltkin (Spriters Alt Babies and their offsprings for those unfamiliar with that term), sending some Prizes to the AP that have nice clean Patterned lineages but because they aren't 4-3G or less, people are less likely to swipe them sometimes (although plenty of people still want those as well, people just caught up in what they collect they forget that plenty of other people are just as happy to take all their other stuff they don't breed as much), etc.

 

So don't forget, while things can get crazy, it is when we are pro-active and constructive vs. reactive and negative (I mean, you can explain your frustration, always good to give the reason why and maybe TJ needs to reconsider or consider some tweaks to things and this is a good reason to bring it up!!), but also their isn't a secret cabal of massbreeders who laugh with a sinister sneer while twirling their mustache (all genders can have that mustache if they want) or whatever Evil Overlord/ess/Gender Neutral Ruler of Destruction Term you Want) to go out and make game play horrific ongoing for the entire player base as much as possible as they gain great joy from the misery of others. If that were a thing, that would be addressed. 

 

So sometimes, just remember, there are things you can do on your own, join together with others to make a more positive fun version of it, be active and pro-active and let people know about things, and a lot of times, they are super happy to learn and adjust as time goes on. Really, at the heart of most people, they are good hearted people, this is a really nice community, so even when it is frustrating, just remember, we have made a LOT of progress on the Mass Breeding & Past Frustrations compared to any current ones. And if you don't know about that progress, know it has been a thing that has gotten a LOT better over the years and a lot more players find much more fun ways to "Breed in Bulk among a lot of people" to the AP to celebrate a theme or whatnot, and those eggs are things people are excited to hunt and excited to breed and have a ton of fun. 

 

And while you can always request breedings of specific things here, if you want to do your own fun Breeding Event or partner with someone to think up something fun, you might be surprised how many people turn out in ways that make it positive for ALL players, and make positive impacts to the game on multiple levels from stats to player enjoyment.

 

Just.... remember that.... since I cannot always take the time to post about that these days in Player Activities. But honestly, you all do so much awesome stuff on your own these days and are so good about supporting and sharing and really being involved, it doesn't harm the participation for me not doing that. And that is one of the happiest things I love seeing is you all being awesome, having fun, and doing things that benefit people in many ways beyond lovely prizes won in raffles and giveaways (although those are always nice too, never stop those either!!) But you can do other kinds of events, and if not, look at participating in some of them! You will have a blast! 

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HEY WHOEVER ATTEMPTED TO WALL WITH PUREBRED MAGELIGHT PIGMIES

 

YOU'RE GREAT!!! I APPRECIATE YOU A LOT!

 

Awww yeah, adorable pigmy children~~ :D

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On 9/3/2020 at 7:10 AM, Natayah said:

But then we started having MassBreeding Events.................

 

So now we have all these really cool Breeding Events

 

NOT so cool these days. 

 

On 9/3/2020 at 7:10 AM, Natayah said:

 

And while you can always request breedings of specific things here, if you want to do your own fun Breeding Event or partner with someone to think up something fun, you might be surprised how many people turn out in ways that make it positive for ALL players, and make positive impacts to the game on multiple levels from stats to player enjoyment.

 

But - mass breeds are not that much fun these days. Please don't encourage any more until there's some solution for the display (not the breeding) in relation to AP walls..

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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

NOT so cool these days. 

 

 

But - mass breeds are not that much fun these days. Please don't encourage any more until there's some solution for the display (not the breeding) in relation to AP walls..

 

It might not he fun for you, but others enjoy it greatly, enough to organise them. 

 

Speaking of, I miss the ER AP already.

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9 hours ago, MissK. said:

 

It might not he fun for you, but others enjoy it greatly, enough to organise them. 

 

Speaking of, I miss the ER AP already.

Well, we already know the recipe to fix that! Get breeding stuff, people! 🤣 Probably going to fling my PB blacktips at it this weekend once they're off cooldown too. That should be good to knock times down a few hours without being excessive.

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11 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

NOT so cool these days. 

 

 

But - mass breeds are not that much fun these days. Please don't encourage any more until there's some solution for the display (not the breeding) in relation to AP walls..

 

Hey Fuzz (and other awesome older [and newer and growing middling members of our Player Community]), You are awesome people (or whatever being you identify as if people is not your preferred being pronoun), regardless you are awesome. You are involved, kind, giving, engaged and constantly are an example to others and actively seek to help both others and the game improve not only through action but also keeping involved in the Forums. Thank you for that. I totally get that concern.

 

This is one of the reasons, I try to  600000% encourage people who "run and organize" these types of events, to call them "Breeding Events" and, whenever possible, unless it really is for a specific theme (I'm going to point out the Ides of March and Brutes.... that is a Funny Pun and it is hysterical and many people really look forward to this event, and almost every egg sent to the AP is 2G, PB or a Checker of some type, and because it is a once a year annual event, people are encouraged throughout the year to grow their CB Brutes Collection [removing them from potential cave blockers when others would not normally pick them up] and to build awesome PB, Checker & Other Patterned Lineages that people most people, if not all, seem to really enjoy collecting and sorting through and hatching and regifting and.... in this example, I've never heard a single complaint nor has it ever caused the AP to drop to any sort of 2 Day Time Frame *EVER* maybe worst case 4 days... maybe a bit under with plenty of time to still influence, and never like Holidays and never long enough to clog it up for long), that said, I really wish people would refrain from using a Player Run Breeding Event as a "MassBreed".... because while it could be consider a MassBreed, it is a more positive type, and I feel it really is more of a Breeding Event, but technically, it can still be considered a "mass breed" but one with only positive effects, not negative effects, and there is a huge difference.

 

A MassBreed (especially since the release of celestials), or often those with very large army of a specific common they usually have a goal of potential change to ratios, are usually organized by multiple people with many army with the sole obejctive of breeding that ONE breed (maybe 2 if they are crossing them with Celestials for Mass Bred Clutches like Holidays, so you get Celestials and that Breed only, but still same idea). That is a completely the opposite of the Player Run Event Intentions.

 

In Breeding Events run by Players, usually it is a "Theme". This Theme can be Holidaykin (or Holiday Lines), which are going to have Breeds and Holidays ranging from a large sort, all of them to be bred are meant to be potential mates, which means they are meant to be "Patterned" not random messes of crazy, and something people want to collect and NEVER a pile of just a few breeds clogging the AP. And as it only lasts a few days, these don't cause the going down to 2 Days like we see on the Holidays or Largely Involved Massbreeds with Celestials on board where multiple people spend several hours sending whatever to the AP of a specific breed x Celestial. Or there may be other Themes such as.... Fourth of July (at least the US Holiday), sometimes people like to encourage: Red Dragons, Blue Dragons, and/or White Dragons (TONS of dragons with those colors) and or Dragons with star patterns/themes and/or Stripe markings (on dragon or Egg), which again, TONS of dragons.

 

Sometimes, people will do a BSA theme, a Hybrid/Alt Theme, a Non-Standard Dragon Theme (like Drakes, Two-Heads, Pygmies, etc.) and again, there are going to be tons of dragon options in all of those. And with Hybrids, you are going to get either a Hybrid Baby, and/or the Parent Options. On Top of that, you also get the dragons that can have "alts" (often people throw Alts/Hybrids together for a theme since they are related closely enough) so you get plenty of Stripes, Vines, Undines (who also make Hybrids), Blacks, and lots of other Different Colors (don't forget all the crazy Xenos we have these days as they also fall under this too!!!) that people can grab for collecting Hybrids, Collecting Non-Hybrids (some people just want to checker the parents, and don't want the hybrids involved), or play the Alt Lottery, etc. So again, nothing close to any few dragon types clogging the AP up for days and dropping those times. And those who hatch/incuhatch, always find easy and lovely homes for those hatchlings. Finally, we also sometimes have color and/or themed days (like for Earth Day, or Recycle or Arbor Day or other Environmental Type Days) where people push either 1. Green Dragons (so many of those, so even if the AP turns green, you are going to have a lot to choose from) and/or when we add in the Elements, people can do Earth and/or Life based Elements to that theme too. I know for Halloween, we'll have the normal Holidaykin Breeding, and while it is normally focused on Halloween Dragons, I'll be honest, on Any Holidaykin breeding days, I sometimes hit my other Holiday Checkers and nice lines because why not, time to dust them off for people to enjoy.

 

I *LOVE* that we have dragons with various themes and Elements these days, it makes them so much more interesting. Like, I think prior to Halloween, or on "Friday the 13ths" (when we have them) or just whatever Dark Themed Day(s) someone may want to run or celebrate, I think it is really fun to do Dragons that have Themes or Elements of "Dark and Scary". This can be from an Elemental Standpoint (This like Dark, Death, or other destructive elements), but it could just be dragons who also have similar themes (not just the Halloween dragons, for example, Monarch Dragons and Olive Dragons, by their Egg Descriptions, can seem like dragons that would be related to "Decay" because of the Leaves that seem to surround their eggs and the aura/odor they give off, although the dragons themselves are perfectly fine, or various "mind control, confusion, like to hunt their prey very "aggressively", look scary even if they are very nice and gentle, so many ways to interpret that). Finally, we have so many different dragon Body Types these days, I think giving some of these more attention as a theme is just as awesome too. And, also, to promote lots of positive causes, there are often Breeding Lineages (like the Breast Cancer and Cancer Hope lineages), but just as easily there can be dragons that fit the themes of these more positive fun and awareness days that celebrate various colors, and themes of life, hope, survival, friendship, courage, etc. So many dragons, and it often inspires people to continue on with some fun Lineages of their own and/or get involved with these Breeding Lineage Project Threads (the Breeding Forum just doesn't always get enough love!!). Or even a "Breed *ALL* the Commons" a Common x Common is going to create either PB or Potential Checker starting, and there are Breeding Lineages for those too to encourage (lots of people post they get excited and inspired to continue lineages) and/or join things like the Common Breeding Lineage Thread (I forget this exact name) or other Player Events where the goal is to collect, grow, share and/or hatch and release dragons, especially more common ones, back to the AP. People can find them in various places. And let's be honest, even if someone was determined to breed every single one of their CB Commons and/or Common Patterned Lineages, if they have a scroll that is Gold to Platinum Level, I salute you if you are able to get through all your Commons, you are a most dedicated player!!

 

And on the off chance they want to focus on a single breed, well, there is nothing to really stop that. Although I always highly encourage that when people do Breeding Events and want others to join in, even if you really are focused on One Dragon Type, consider some other themes and options (from elements, themes, colors, even a few different dragon types) because this allows people to participate, and if they run out of that dragon type, they can mix in some other things to celebrate with to keep it fresh and fun, especially if they are enjoying it, and this also causes the AP not to necessarily turn into a sea of only one type.

 

Finally, and I seriously wish people would be more involved in these two projects:

1. Vampire Time: Eggs Not Moving in the AP? No one Wants Them? Low Timed Eggs? Scary Theme or Special Date? About to Leave the Game for Awhile and Want to Create some Eggs people will Pick up?? BITE THEM!! Turn Them into Vampires. Start a Vampire Coven Event and have some fun. Announce when you want all the Covens across the Planet to come out of Hiding and Create new recruits for themselves and others. Trust me, there will *Always* be someone who wants a vampire egg regardless of its lineage. People have fun collecting vampire eggs. And when they hit the AP, they don't usually stay in the AP for very long before finding a forever home, or a really nice person who will then hatch it and regift the vampire hatchling. That finds a nice new Coven even faster, and now you have some new recruits to spread the love.

2. Zombie Announcements: There are people who do this, but I wish more people would follow these threads to get the info. When you have a month that ends on the 31st, instead of just "killing" some random 5 dragons on the 31st and trying to rezz them into Zombies and see your success rate, you have more chances if you do a few things. 1. Also kill some adults exactly or just under 14 days before the time you are going to attempt the revival. Your timing is important because I did mine 14 days in advance, but forgot about the time so the prior 5 I carefully picked out were gone! Also, grab some eggs, any old ugly egg, and hatch it, but make sure you don't let it grow up. You can check out the Zombie threads for all the details on these. That way you can also have BUNCHES of hatchlings to try and revive (without cutting into your 5 Kill Limit, because they just died, and those don't count!!) and you can get cute hatchling zombies of all the various poses. While there are a lot of people who share their zombie Adults of all sorts of different body types for zombies, but if we want to unlock the hatchling body types for those, we need hatchling zombies of those body types too!! So you really help the entire game and you can have fun if you enjoy this thing. 

 

And it is 347204923% OK if any particular player *HATES* the idea of Zombies and/or Vampires and/or ND's. But in the threads that are created specifically for that purpose, there are reasons they are made for that purpose. So people who enjoy it and want to participate can go there and people who don't like it don't go there. And this way we don't have threads devolving into whether it is morally acceptable or not because... that really isn't the point of the thread. The thread is a player event for players who want to participate, learn more, get more involved, grow their collection, and ultimately, even if it is not your cup of tea, it does have the additional benefit of often clearing out some of those less desirable AP eggs.

 

And ultimately, if you can't have 100% desirable eggs in the AP at under 5 days, but over 3 days (at least at this point because of the restrictions of influence, this isn't the place to discuss if that does or doesn't need to change), then they all 1. Help Accomplish that Goal and 2. Keep various Players and Various styles engaged and having fun which keeps them around longer which ultimately, makes our community stronger and more fun and makes it more fun for people to stick around and play this game vs. retiring or cutting back on time they play or not being involved with the Forums and/or Chats and/or Various Events because they just cannot find something that grabs them and makes them want to stick around as long as possible.

 

So while "MassBreeding" may or may not be a helpful thing to some people, turning it into a Player Event that is focused on a larger more diverse group of dragons to be bred to the AP and something fun enough that more people want to do it, will, unlike normal "massbreeding" keep the AP fresh, full of fun things to find, and still have lots of variety that people will want to keep and/or hatch that will grow up on a scroll and keep dragon egg times in that most desired range and keep things moving along as they grab the stuff since there is so much stuff to grab for one reason or another. 

Edited by Natayah

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I think massbreeds are fun and I barely ever participate in them. What you might not consider fun, others clearly do.

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10 hours ago, Firefury Amahira said:

Well, we already know the recipe to fix that! Get breeding stuff, people! 🤣 Probably going to fling my PB blacktips at it this weekend once they're off cooldown too. That should be good to knock times down a few hours without being excessive.

 

Nice. I did a mini massbreed myself of blacks, whites, magis, reds and pinks. Around 300 eggs that should show up in around a day, but I imagine that won't be too terrible what with people liking alts and BSAs.

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That's Nice, MissK. I've been thinking whether I should get more Reds due to their BSA, but at the same time I wonder if I need it - I only really want duplicates of BSAs that I deem necessary for collecting, such as Pinks and Purples, otherwise I want my collection to stay small. Perhaps I keep whatever Reds I happen to breed with those fellas.

 

There appeared to be a small Black massbreed just a moment ago, but I sadly couldn't hunt for alts because locked. Some other time, eh.

Someday I also hope to find a Dark Green Alt to adopt... I can try to breed one maybe, but I like adopting.

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1 minute ago, Platykwak said:

That's Nice, MissK. I've been thinking whether I should get more Reds due to their BSA, but at the same time I wonder if I need it - I only really want duplicates of BSAs that I deem necessary for collecting, such as Pinks and Purples, otherwise I want my collection to stay small. Perhaps I keep whatever Reds I happen to breed with those fellas.

Trust me, Reds are definitely necessary! You're going to want to hoard a bunch of them.

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I bred a good amount of my 'shinies' to the AP a couple days ago, Golds/Silvers/Prizes/etc, I didn't spend too much time fertilizing things but still got a decent number of nice lineages and breeds. Also sent some of my Staterae-fails to the AP, though those are a bit messy, but good for freezing. 

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