Guarantee Summons

[RainDear]

I really think it's a shame that there are members who have been summoning for over 4 years and not gotten a GON yet.

 

I think that if someone summons 2 years worth (50-52 times) they should be guaranteed a GON. To me it seems fair that after 2 years worth of trying a person can count on getting their GON. It doesn't seem fair to me that some are still trying without getting one.

 

If this doesn't seem like something that could work, or doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile for the game, well ok.

 

I just thought it would make things more fair for everyone-what does everyone else think?

 

Edit: Some posters prefer increasing chance percentage as time passes to this. I would just like to see people who have been trying for over 2 years getting their GONs. I am not particularly attached to any particular manner this happens for them.

 

Edit II: Some support this for the first GON but not for the others. That would be ok with me. It would at least let those who have been trying forever to participate in Avatar breedings.

Edited September 1, 2014 by raindear

[Ha-Ki]

Rewarding regular summoning has my support. I'd prefer if it were a given number of summons that are necessary instead of a fixed time, though.

 

 

I think I've seen this discussed elsewhere...

 

ETA: I just found it, it was something that you said in the discussion about reducing summoning cooldown

Edited August 25, 2014 by Ha-Ki

[RainDear]

If you will reread the first post you should see that I suggest 50 to 52 summons for this-the equivalent of 2 years worth of summons.

[Ha-Ki]

Complete support from my side, then.

[Tehya Faye]

Sounds like a good idea to me. 4+ years of failure has got to be really discouraging, especially now that Avatars exist.

[Nerei]

Hasn't the fail rate been decreased? I got my first and only GoN on my first try :/

[Nectaris]

I think I would rather see the chances go up by a significant amount after a certain period of time(and I do mean a significant amount, not just the small amount the trios apparently add). Like for every year of failure, your chances go up X%, to the point that after a certain period of time, while you aren't guaranteed, you are very likely to get one.

 

For some reason I find the idea of a flat guarantee off-putting.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think I would rather see the chances go up by a significant amount after a certain period of time(and I do mean a significant amount, not just the small amount the trios apparently add). Like for every year of failure, your chances go up X%, to the point that after a certain period of time, while you aren't guaranteed, you are very likely to get one.

 

For some reason I find the idea of a flat guarantee off-putting.

Actually I was trying to figure out why I didn't like this idea - and that's it exactly. Nothing else in the game has a flat guarantee, and to have one for this seems - tacky somehow....

[lightningsky]

I disagree.

 

It's kind of like saying, if someone soft resets 1,000 times, they're guaranteed a shiny pokemon. It's a luck based event. I understand some people are frustrated at luck-based things but a lot of games have something like that (oh, and don't forget the yearly raffle ^^). Just keep summoning and collecting trios...I don't see a reason why a dragon has to be handed to someone just because of bad luck. o_O At least we have a way to boost our chances in this game (collecting sets of trios) instead of a flat, unchanging rate...like shinies in pokemon (before 5th gen)...

 

I could agree with Nectaris here; if a change had to be made, I would agree with the chances being bumped up a bit per year of complete failure. I think that would be the best compromise.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Perhaps for every 25 failed summons (about a year's worth) the rate of summon jumps up a flat 10-20%? Once you summon one, it drops down back to the 'original' rate for your scroll (aka whatever your trios set you at) and restarts the counter. That'd guarantee one within ten years (or five years if it's 20%) if you have godawful luck, while being a long enough process that hopefully no one will squawk about it being too easy. Five years is a very long time to wait for one dragon in a simple collecting game, much less ten... <___<

Edited August 26, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[RainDear]

I think I would rather see the chances go up by a significant amount after a certain period of time(and I do mean a significant amount, not just the small amount the trios apparently add). Like for every year of failure, your chances go up X%, to the point that after a certain period of time, while you aren't guaranteed, you are very likely to get one.

 

For some reason I find the idea of a flat guarantee off-putting.

I do see and understand this point of view, but after 4 years of constantly telling others, "Just keep trying. You'll get one eventually." it just feels less and less true. It seems to me that "Just keep trying. You'll get one eventually." should be true. For some people it may never be true. That just seems unfair to me.

[edwardelricfreak]

I disagree.

 

It's kind of like saying, if someone soft resets 1,000 times, they're guaranteed a shiny pokemon. It's a luck based event. I understand some people are frustrated at luck-based things but a lot of games have something like that (oh, and don't forget the yearly raffle ^^). Just keep summoning and collecting trios...I don't see a reason why a dragon has to be handed to someone just because of bad luck. o_O At least we have a way to boost our chances in this game (collecting sets of trios) instead of a flat, unchanging rate...like shinies in pokemon (before 5th gen)...

 

I could agree with Nectaris here; if a change had to be made, I would agree with the chances being bumped up a bit per year of complete failure. I think that would be the best compromise.

*before 4th gen. 4th gen introduced the pokeradar and Masuda method.

 

But I also support Nectaris's idea, as well as ADP's to have it reset once you do get one. I'd like it to jump up by quite a bit for a year, or maybe smaller bits every 6? months.

[DragonLady86]

I put my opinion in other threads relating to this, but I'll post it here too. The chances for the FIRST one need to raised. That is a definite. As I am also in favor in an increased limit (or even no limit) I, personally, think they should simply be harder to get as you get more. Random numbers here: 50-75% chance of summoning for First, 40-60% for Second, 30-50% for Third, ...

 

Doesn't need to be those exact stats or go down at that rate, numbers were selected purely for demonstrating point.

 

But yes, chances need to be raised either for getting the first one, or for any that has tried for X amount of time/ actually summoned X many times. Because going many years without one is not fun.

[olympe]

So what? Other people are trying for just as long to catch a CB metal. (I finally succeeded for the first time after 4 years, 10 months.) So, where's the difference?

[edwardelricfreak]

So what? Other people are trying for just as long to catch a CB metal. (I finally succeeded for the first time after 4 years, 10 months.) So, where's the difference?

You can at least trade for those, and technically a metal is a metal is a metal to the game. o3o GoNs can only be gotten by you and you alone, not traded or bred for. It's entirely luck based-- not the same type of luck as reflexes and internet speed and patience, but RNG luck. You could go forever and technically even at 99% success rate still fail every time. It's highly unlikely, but there's a possibility of it happening. Course, summoning chances are much much lower than 99%, obviously.

 

GoNs are meant for the users. They're meant to be a reward. They're meant to be kept. But not everyone deserves a CB metal. That's another issue entirely.

[Mondat]

I could go on and on about "what's fair" but I'll just say that I do not support => considering the chances for getting one were increased.

[mozers]

I disagree, because it defeats the ultimate purpose of GoN being a super rare dragon.

[olympe]

You can at least trade for those, and technically a metal is a metal is a metal to the game. o3o GoNs can only be gotten by you and you alone, not traded or bred for. It's entirely luck based-- not the same type of luck as reflexes and internet speed and patience, but RNG luck. You could go forever and technically even at 99% success rate still fail every time. It's highly unlikely, but there's a possibility of it happening. Course, summoning chances are much much lower than 99%, obviously.

 

GoNs are meant for the users. They're meant to be a reward. They're meant to be kept. But not everyone deserves a CB metal. That's another issue entirely.

What can you seriously trade for a CB metal? Only other CB metals or 2nd/3rd gen shimmers - which you usually have to pay CB metals for. (Yes, I know there are some people who gift CB metals. I've been gifted 2, myself. )

 

However, there's no limit to CB metals - and yet, some people really cannot catch them. There's a very strict limit on GoNs - yet, some people cannot summon them.

 

Also, even seeing a CB metal is entirely based on luck. In essence, this in a matter of RNG - whether that metal turns up when you're in the biome or not.

 

You also say that "not everyone deserves a CB metal". Could you explain why you feel that way? And why you seem to think that everyone deserves a GoN?

 

I've tried many times to find a way to make CB metals more available to those who cannot get them. You know what the usual answers were?

• "Rares are rare for a reason." => also true for GoNs
• "Just try harder/again, eventually you will succeed." => also true for GoNs
• "People aren't entitled to anything on DC, not even CB metals." => also true for GoNs
• "It's meant to be a challenge." => not quite as true for GoNs, but you can improve your chances with more sets of trios.

Also, while GoNs are impossible to trade, their only real value is in breeding Avatars. And Avatars can be traded.

 

Really, there isn't that much of a difference IMHO. Nobody is entitled to anything, as far as I've been told.

[cyradis4]

I think we need to consider a few things:

 

1. How many complete Trio pairs do those who keep failing have?

If they have just one or two complete sets, that's how they choose to play. They choose to forgo the increased chance of a GoN. So, I see no need to change things to make it easier for them to get GoN. They've already chosen to not utilize the easier method.

 

If they have a ton of complete sets, then we have to ask ourselves: Why, with such dedication and increased chances, have they not gotten one? True random plays no favorites: sooner or later, it should have come up. In which case, we need to ask TJ to look into the RNG he's using. Some RNGs will produce gaps where it just won't come up with certain numbers... No matter how hard you try.

 

 

2. How dedicated have they really been?

When I was summoning, I often would forget to try. So, instead of 25 or so summons a year, I was only hitting 9 or maybe 10. If someone hasn't actually made that many summons, then this wouldn't help them. How many summons someone has made isn't something that we can track, but it is something TJ can look into. If the people who've been trying for 4 years are like me and haven't been as dedicated as they thought they'd been... That could also be the reason.

 

 

3. How many times have they tried since Avatars were released and the chances were upped again?

Have they been as dedicated now as they have in the past? Or are they giving up? And is there a way we can help them remember to try to Summon?

 

 

I don't have the answers to any of those. But I would like to hear from some people who haven't summoned anything in 4 years. Are they the ones who only have 2 or 3 of each of the Trios?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[RainDear]

(Yes, I know there are some people who gift CB metals. I've been gifted 2, myself. )

 

In my opinion, that is the big difference between GONs and CB or bred metals. Anyone can get a CB or bred metal. It can be gifted, or traded for. I am trading a large number of holiday breedings for a CB Gold, myself. No one can be gifted or trade for a GON. If you are out of luck-you are out of luck.

 

I do not condone "giving" them to anyone. I just suggest that after a goodly amount of "due diligence" without luck that "earning" one can be an option. When some get them on their first try, it seems that others should be able to get one after two years worth of tries. I do not suggest that someone who tried for two years but only actually summoned 10-25 times has "earned" one, but I do feel that after 50+ actual attempts one could be considered to have "earned" one.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

In my opinion, that is the big difference between GONs and CB or bred metals. Anyone can get a CB or bred metal. It can be gifted, or traded for. I am trading a large number of holiday breedings for a CB Gold, myself. No one can be gifted or trade for a GON. If you are out of luck-you are out of luck.

 

I do not condone "giving" them to anyone. I just suggest that after a goodly amount of "due diligence" without luck that "earning" one can be an option. When some get them on their first try, it seems that others should be able to get one after two years worth of tries. I do not suggest that someone who tried for two years but only actually summoned 10-25 times has "earned" one, but I do feel that after 50+ actual attempts one could be considered to have "earned" one.

I agree with this. There are many ways to get CB Metals. Hunt, trade, find awesome people who will gift them, even get gifted one at random. Whereas with GoNs, you get one lottery drawing every two weeks and that's really all you can do about it (aside from collecting masses of Trios, which is indirect and as far as I can tell doesn't make a huge impact).

 

GoNs can't be traded, so why not let people who have diligently been clicking that stupid button for a whole two years get one? Two years is a lot of waiting on a silly game, especially when everything else (except maybe Hollies) can be gotten in some form pretty swiftly (you might not get a nice Gold or Tinsel for a long time, but at least you can get one of the breed).

[edwardelricfreak]

You also say that "not everyone deserves a CB metal". Could you explain why you feel that way? And why you seem to think that everyone deserves a GoN?

What I mean is, you're not entitled to having a metal. I'm not saying they don't deserve them like they shouldn't have them, but rather they aren't entitled to them. However, with how GoNs work, the user is MEANT to have one and keep it, it's just hard to get initially. But otherwise, it belongs to that user; they deserve it/are entitled to it at that point. Not that they HAVE to have one, but when they get it, it's meant for them, hence they cannot trade for them or otherwise catch them in the cave/AP or breed them, which GoNs cannot do (well, they can breed, but not true).

[CNR4806]

What I mean is, you're not entitled to having a metal. I'm not saying they don't deserve them like they shouldn't have them, but rather they aren't entitled to them. However, with how GoNs work, the user is MEANT to have one and keep it, it's just hard to get initially. But otherwise, it belongs to that user; they deserve it/are entitled to it at that point. Not that they HAVE to have one, but when they get it, it's meant for them, hence they cannot trade for them or otherwise catch them in the cave/AP or breed them, which GoNs cannot do (well, they can breed, but not true).

... How does that end up meaning "everyone is meant to have one"?

 

At most, I can interpret that as "it is yours and yours only for the trouble". If everyone is meant to have something I'm fairly certain that it will just pop up on everyone's scroll on its own, not requiring us to collect three fairly hard to get dragons and perform a low-chance-high-cooldown BSA over and over again.

[edwardelricfreak]

... How does that end up meaning "everyone is meant to have one"?

 

At most, I can interpret that as "it is yours and yours only for the trouble". If everyone is meant to have something I'm fairly certain that it will just pop up on everyone's scroll on its own, not requiring us to collect three fairly hard to get dragons and perform a low-chance-high-cooldown BSA over and over again.

Never mind- it was a weird phrasing and I can't really explain it any better anyway.

 

The point I was trying to make though, is that we shouldn't be guaranteed CB metals. That's ridiculous. GoNs are different from other dragons, even if they share traits like rarity, etc.

 

I don't think we should be ultimately guaranteed a GoN, either, but easier chances if only for just the first one after a long period time/certain amount of summon chances sounds good to me.

Edited August 26, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[Starbit]

I think we need to consider a few things:

 

1. How many complete Trio pairs do those who keep failing have?

If they have just one or two complete sets, that's how they choose to play. They choose to forgo the increased chance of a GoN. So, I see no need to change things to make it easier for them to get GoN. They've already chosen to not utilize the easier method.

 

That isn't fair or relevant. I don't have many complete trio sets because I struggle to catch or breed ices. I only have one non-messy ice who refuses to produce ice kids and I am not breeding messy ices for the sake of a GON.

 

Trios are not always easy to breed or catch. Just because someone doesn't have many complete sets doesn't me they aren't trying to get a GON the 'easier way'