Posted June 11, 2014 Just had this thought last night- why not make Trading more accessible to those who don't frequent the forums? You could search "All trades" for specific dragon types directly on the website instead of sifting through pages and pages of dragons you aren't interested in. This could be something you would check/uncheck on the teleportation page (Do you want this trade to show up in the main search, yes/no), it could be on the account settings page (show trades in trade search, yes/no), or it could be on the page you view all trades from (would you like to hide from main trades, yes/no). What are your thoughts? Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I dont think you know how many ppl used dc....ppl might get useless offers for like 100 times so im against that too. ETA: oops. Used the word dollars instead of times... Edited June 11, 2014 by ylangylang Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I think - there is no in-cave trading system; they happen through the forums or on fan sites though there have been requests for in-cave trading. BUT - there are hundreds and hundreds of trades running at any one time, and they are changing all the time. I can't honestly see this as being workable. I also think it would lead to many MANY more totally inappropriate offers from people who aren't on forum - given that even on the forum, you can list a 2 gen PB gold egg, for example, say you only want - say - 2 CB nebula hatchies or a 2 gen silver from rosebud z for it - and you will still get offers presumably sort of hoping you might consider a couple of inbred nocturnes instead of what you asked for... If you could search out all the silvers and make inappropriate offers - the mind boggles. I honestly don't think it would work. ETA @ ylangylang - I think you'd have to offer an egg or a dragon, as you'd presumably have to make your offer on a teleport link. If not - absolutely no way would this be OK ! Edited June 11, 2014 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 I think - there is no in-cave trading system; they happen through the forums or on fan sites though there have been requests for in-cave trading. BUT - there are hundreds and hundreds of trades running at any one time, and they are changing all the time. I can't honestly see this as being workable. I also think it would lead to many MANY more totally inappropriate offers from people who aren't on forum - given that even on the forum, you can list a 2 gen PB gold egg, for example, say you only want - say - 2 CB nebula hatchies or a 2 gen silver from rosebud z for it - and you will still get offers presumably sort of hoping you might consider a couple of inbred nocturnes instead of what you asked for... If you could search out all the silvers and make inappropriate offers - the mind boggles. I honestly don't think it would work. ETA @ ylangylang - I think you'd have to offer an egg or a dragon, as you'd presumably have to make your offer on a teleport link. If not - absolutely no way would this be OK ! Right, this is why you could hide your trades to avoid getting ridiculous offers from off the main trade page. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 Right, this is why you could hide your trades to avoid getting ridiculous offers from off the main trade page. And even if you couldn't hide your trades...the risk of getting ridiculous offers already exists....there is also the "decline" button people can use, it exists for a reason. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 And even if you couldn't hide your trades...the risk of getting ridiculous offers already exists....there is also the "decline" button people can use, it exists for a reason. Yes - but there would be MANY MANY more offers. As ylangylang says - there are 30k players or something... Go for it if you like - but only as long as we don't all have to use it. Given some of the offers I've had here - I certainly don't want that multiplied by a zillion (and yes I know there's a decline button. Have you never had the same offer repeated 5 minutes after you rejected it ? And then again with the added lure of ANOTHER inbred nocturne added, and so on ? Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 I just tried searching the Trading thread for posts containing Chicken. Got almost 500 posts with Chicken in them. This include those who have a Chicken to trade, those who want a Chicken, and those who are specifying that they do NOT want a Chicken. How would you narrow it down more than this, especially with those who use links embedded in images rather than text to define their trades? Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 I just tried searching the Trading thread for posts containing Chicken. Got almost 500 posts with Chicken in them. This include those who have a Chicken to trade, those who want a Chicken, and those who are specifying that they do NOT want a Chicken. How would you narrow it down more than this, especially with those who use links embedded in images rather than text to define their trades? No no, you're misunderstanding This would be a feature WITHIN Dragon Cave. So you would never go to forums at all. You would search for trades of "Chicken" eggs, and any active transfers with a chicken egg would show up. I guess the best example I have of what I'm trying to say is searching things on ebay. You type in "Blue car" if you want to see all auctions with a blue car in them. I think adding descriptions of what you wanted for it would be too much for DC, but I love the idea of just being able to list a trade I'm sure I don't want, but not sure what I want for it and don't want to be hassled of outlining what I expect in a forum post (which is both limiting and discouraging to offers I might actually consider). Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) No no, you're misunderstanding This would be a feature WITHIN Dragon Cave. So you would never go to forums at all. You would search for trades of "Chicken" eggs, and any active transfers with a chicken egg would show up. I guess the best example I have of what I'm trying to say is searching things on ebay. You type in "Blue car" if you want to see all auctions with a blue car in them. I think adding descriptions of what you wanted for it would be too much for DC, but I love the idea of just being able to list a trade I'm sure I don't want, but not sure what I want for it and don't want to be hassled of outlining what I expect in a forum post (which is both limiting and discouraging to offers I might actually consider). But dragongrrl's post still holds. There would be far too many to be manageable. And if you are saying you want to look at every POSSIBLE offer made - well, you may regret that.... I just tried ebay and blue car. I got 520,201 hits.... even narrowing it down to actual cars, as opposed to curtains with blue car images on, T-shirts, toy cars etc, I end up with 7,645 blue actual cars. (AND it only lists CARS in the country where you are registered, for obvious reasons.) NO WAY is anyone going to want to look through that much stuff. Even in proportion to the size of the player base on DC. ... mind you one or two of those cars are quite appealing... I just ran through chicken + dragon - and on EBAY I got 70 hits !!! ETA ACTUALLY this has been suggested before: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118085&hl= And there's always EATW's trade area. Edited June 11, 2014 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 But dragongrrl's post still holds. There would be far too many to be manageable. And if you are saying you want to look at every POSSIBLE offer made - well, you may regret that.... I just tried ebay and blue car. I got 520,201 hits.... even narrowing it down to actual cars, as opposed to curtains with blue car images on, T-shirts, toy cars etc, I end up with 7,645 blue actual cars. (AND it only lists CARS in the country where you are registered, for obvious reasons.) NO WAY is anyone going to want to look through that much stuff. Even in proportion to the size of the player base on DC. ... mind you one or two of those cars are quite appealing... I just ran through chicken + dragon - and on EBAY I got 70 hits !!! ETA ACTUALLY this has been suggested before: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118085&hl= But you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Ebay has billions of users across the globe. Dragon Cave may have a few thousand trades, but like I said, just opt out of it if you don't want it. I feel like it would benefit those who want it, and would literally do nothing to those who do not. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 But you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Ebay has billions of users across the globe. Dragon Cave may have a few thousand trades, but like I said, just opt out of it if you don't want it. I feel like it would benefit those who want it, and would literally do nothing to those who do not. Sure it does - that's why I said proportional to our user base. Even so - you've only to look at the number of trades active on the forum and think how many MORE there would be if the entire player base were involved. Take a look at the older thread about this, though. I think it is thought out in a more organised way. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 So, you search for a trade with a chicken in it, and get greeted with 100 chicken trade links. Then what? There's no way to know who wants what, is there? Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) So, you search for a trade with a chicken in it, and get greeted with 100 chicken trade links. Then what? There's no way to know who wants what, is there? The OP - kecemis - said: I love the idea of just being able to list a trade I'm sure I don't want, but not sure what I want for it and don't want to be hassled of outlining what I expect in a forum post So, kecemis - you want a chicken and you want to look at every last one of them on offer, without having any idea what the trader wants ? OR - equally - you want to list YOUR chicken and see what someone who has just had to go through 100 trades to see what's out there will offer... Or you want to offer on something, - and you can only offer anything you have on one trade anyway... Also - a chicken is a bad example as they have no lineage to concern yourself with. Imagine going through all those golds out there to see which are 2g PB and which are 15 gen inbred to all-get-out... Edited June 11, 2014 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 I used a Chicken as a tip of the iceberg example. When you start trying to find a 3rd gen EG Silver from female Hellfires, something I spent a year trying to find, how would the task would be easier with an In-Cave trading system than it would be with the Forum trades? There is still no guarantee that the possessor of such an egg would be interested in what I have to offer. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 Well, an in-cave trading system would be great, that's true. However, if this gets implemented, we need a feature to at least check the breeds and stages of dragons that can be offered to us. Like: I have a silver to offer. I only want golds, shimmers or avatars in return. So, in a drop-down menu, I check these breeds, and nobody could offer me anything but these breeds. Or: I have a silver to offer. I only want BSA hatchies. So, I should be able to check only BSA dragons plus some kind of "hatchlings only" box. However, we need some other features for an in-cave market place to work: - The ability to block annoying people from offering on our trades. (Really, someone who only offers messy inbreds instead of the PB/checkers I might have requested shouldn't be able to offer again and again and again.) - Some kind of messaging system that works with trades - to offer notes like "willing to add more on request" or whatever we might need. (Responses must be possible, as well as reports.) - A search function for the market. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 I think something like this would just increase lag incredibly. Suddenly all 30,000 players could be offering/searching/accepting/rejecting trades all at once? Trading on the forum is at least on a separate server from the cave so our activity here doesn't affect our activity in the cave. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 Well, an in-cave trading system would be great, that's true. However, if this gets implemented, we need a feature to at least check the breeds and stages of dragons that can be offered to us. Like: I have a silver to offer. I only want golds, shimmers or avatars in return. So, in a drop-down menu, I check these breeds, and nobody could offer me anything but these breeds. Or: I have a silver to offer. I only want BSA hatchies. So, I should be able to check only BSA dragons plus some kind of "hatchlings only" box. However, we need some other features for an in-cave market place to work: - The ability to block annoying people from offering on our trades. (Really, someone who only offers messy inbreds instead of the PB/checkers I might have requested shouldn't be able to offer again and again and again.) - Some kind of messaging system that works with trades - to offer notes like "willing to add more on request" or whatever we might need. (Responses must be possible, as well as reports.) - A search function for the market. These are all VERY good points. The suggestion the OP outlined is simply not workable (or useful) (as outlined with the chicken example) without more details and specifics put into it. In addition to checkboxes for what we *want* out of trade-offers, maybe a way to just check off what we don't want? I'll often accept most anything for certain trades, except for maybe 5 breeds I just don't like. In that instance, checking off what I don't want would be *much* easier then checking off what I do want. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) See another reason why I dont see this as plausible, aside from the frankly huge number of trade offers one might have to wade through, is that people want different things. I know that Marie19R likes messy lineages whereas others don't. Some people want very specific lineages, others don't really care. Some people want nice codes, others again, don't care. So say there is a trade where the person wants a copper in exchange for an avatar. We have no idea what it is that the petson want because at the moment there is no way to mention what you want in exchange for whatever you have put up, it just lists active teleports. So I would have to take a risk in that case and guess at what it is the person wants, is it a blusang? A gold? A silver? If it's a copper, what lineage? And so on. Not to mention even if I knew that someone wanted a copper-avatar trade I would have to sift through all such trades and check if the avatar is inbred, etc. Avatars are fairly new, so there aren't that many lineages, but for golds there is a huge variation on their lineages as they have been around for a longer time and because more people have them. How are you going to check out all of that? ETA: Also, as raindear said, lag. The list would be constantly changing as other people make new offers and other people accept offers, so this would be a giant mess. Edited June 11, 2014 by ylangylang Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I feel like it would benefit those who want it, and would literally do nothing to those who do not. Kecemis, I advise you to make a pros/cons list Pros: + being able to trade without having to join the forum and use fansites + being able to search what you want Cons: - the amount of offers one doesn't want might increase => Counter-argument: while it's just an annoyance, no one will come to harm with continuing to click "decline" and sometimes any offers are better than no offers - it might give people who like to view-bomb other people's dragons the chance to search for their victims if the codes are shown => Counter-argument: we already have the risk of becoming a victim of view-bombers every time we post a trade so it's up to the trader to take the risk or not - lag? (not sure I can know what happens, I am not TJ) etc. Apart from my - as much as possible - neutral position on this, I personally think I would use it. Just another reason to stop spending time on this forum. There are games which have an in-cave trading system and it works fine - they have an in-game currency tough. EATW offers a splendid trading market and if we could have something similar to this or even some "trading market for the busy people who do not care much what they get for it" like Kecemis suggested I would be delighted. @Marie: If I could have a trading service on Dragon Cave I wouldn´t need the fansites for trading either. And it is not my job to figure out how to exactly make the search workable, I am not a programmer. Edited June 12, 2014 by Mondat Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2014 Kecemis, I advise you to make a pros/cons list Pros: + being able to trade without having to join the forum + being able to search what you want Cons: - the amount of offers one doesn't want might increase => Counter-argument: while it's just an annoyance, no one will come to harm with continuing to click "decline" and sometimes any offers are better than no offers - it might give people who like to view-bomb other people's dragons the chance to search for their victims if the codes are shown => Counter-argument: we already have the risk of becoming a victim of view-bombers every time we post a trade so it's up to the trader to take the risk or not - lag? (not sure I can know what happens, I am not TJ) etc. Apart from my - as much as possible - neutral position on this, I personally think I would use it. Just another reason to stop spending time on this forum. There are games which have an in-cave trading system and it works fine - they have an in-game currency tough. EATW offers a splendid trading market and if we could have something similar to this or even some "trading market for the busy people who do not care much what they get for it" like Kecemis suggested I would be delighted. Oh, I could also add some "counter-arguments" to those pros: You can already trade without having to join the forum (multiple fansites do it!). And until we figure out exactly how to make the search workable, searching for what you want could be completely useless (look at this forum's search function...). Share this post Link to post
Posted June 12, 2014 I would like some kind of cave trading thing. I don't like trading on the forums as it is right now. If I could put in what I want and search just those things it would be so much better. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 12, 2014 Well, regarding lag: Not all players would be looking for trades at once. Plus, with some kind of messaging system, we could tell people what kind of lineages (CB, "clean", "messy", inbred, special patterns...) we need. I think that protecting eggs/hatchies in teleports from sickness or adding a heal/protect BSA would be needed, too. I forgot to put in the ability to offer on multiple trades and/or offer stuff in teleports. And, yes, a feature to check all breeds and then manually uncheck those we really don't want would be a good thing, too. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I think an in Cave trading system along the lines of how Eggs Around the World's trading system is set up (a system that works as such: here's what I have, here's what I want and the kind I want -cb, lineage, etc.- with a little message) would be great. I don't know how practical it would be to create and maintain, but I truly would love to see this Edited June 12, 2014 by Wahya Share this post Link to post
Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Oh, I could also add some "counter-arguments" to those pros: You can already trade without having to join the forum (multiple fansites do it!). And until we figure out exactly how to make the search workable, searching for what you want could be completely useless (look at this forum's search function...). To be fair, the fact that the forum's search function is rubbish is down to invision, not TJ. I just wish he'd add an in-forum google search box, as a couple of other forums I'm in have done. But as I said earlier, there is already a MUCH better designed suggestion for in cave trading - I am not keen to see it happen, myself, but if it is wanted it would be better to have it well designed.) I think I will bump it. http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118085&hl= But I too fear lag. It;'s all very well to say only TJ can tell, and that's true, but given that we get lag on the hour for every drop, through every release, and through events etc - I can't see why it wouldn't add to lag. If this were to happen I'd like to see it sort of hosted off the main cave site, as you might say. Edited June 14, 2014 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted June 14, 2014 http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118085&hl= Before I just go ahead and merge, I'd just like to ask the OP how your suggestion is different than the one for the In-Cave Marketplace. Thanks. ^^ Share this post Link to post
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