Vampire Conversions

[memorytreedragons]

Hi everyone!

I would like to discuss the possibility of reviving a dragon from its vampiric state back to its natural state. When TJ created Dragoncave, I believe that he wanted to give everyone a choice----a choice of one thing or the other. He wanted to give us all a choice to make in Dragoncave, that would determine our scroll situations. So I’ve noticed that if you kill a dragon, you have the chance of reviving it. If you abandon a dragon, you have the choice of getting another one from the AP. You had the choice to breed your dragons, a decision that would result in one less, or one more dragon in the world of Dragoncave. You always did. Whether you noticed it or not, you did. I believe that, in following with the idea of choices, that would have polar opposite outcomes, we should have the choice of reverting a vampire into its normal state. In my mental state, I rather abhor the idea of vampirism---but that’s just me. But I don’t dislike the vampires themselves, I even have a few vampires on my scroll. I think that we should have the decision of reverting a vampire back into its normal state, with no percents of it turning back. In other words, if you click the Revert button, and put your password in, your dragon will turn back into the type of dragon that it was before it was turned, no gimmicks. Because you made the choice or reverting it. You chose whether to turn it into a vampire or to not, you were also given the choice to revert it or not. I propose this idea because I believe that Dragoncave is a game of decisions, not determined by fate as much as choice. Whether you choose to side on either opinion, you have my respect.

Thanks for reading!

 

[KageSora]

It'd be interesting to see something like this added, though I'd rather see it as a BSA sort of like how there's a BSA to get rid of zombies--it would make sense keeping in with that theme.

 

But a way to "cure" them of their vampirism would be interesting--though I'm not sure, do vampires retain info on what they originally were? If they don't retain that info on what breed they were to begin with this would be impossible...

[olympe]

Why bite an egg and even risk its death if you don't want to have it become a vampire?

 

Or is this a try to un-turn AP vamps? Because in this case, the choice wasn't yours in the first place.

 

Overall, this sounds more like a clever plan to create rare dragons out of vamps. (Unfortunately, though, most vamps with a rare parent are rare-fails anyhow.)

[KageSora]

Why bite an egg and even risk its death if you don't want to have it become a vampire?

People can change their minds. Expunge is effectively only beneficial to people who changed their minds about wanting zombies, so why not something for vamps?

 

Or is this a try to un-turn AP vamps? Because in this case, the choice wasn't yours in the first place.

But now that it's on your scroll its your choice what to do with it.

 

It could be locked to vamps you make yourself, I suppose, if the "unturning rares from the AP" was a concern.

Edited June 3, 2014 by KageSora

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Considering vampires are created by venom changing an embryo into a different form, I assume the process would have a fairly large chance of failure (non fatal or otherwise).

 

@KageSora: since we can kill / release vampires (which we couldn't do with zombies, hence expunge), I see no reason to add a BSA for it

Edited June 3, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[bbik]

People can change their minds.  Expunge is effectively only beneficial to people who changed their minds about wanting zombies, so why not something for vamps?

Expunge was added for Zombies because before that, there was no way to get rid of Zombies if you no longer wanted them. Vampires, though, have always been killable and releaseable, so if the intent of this suggestion is to remove Vampires from the scroll, there are already ways to do that. If it's to revert AP Vampires as olympe suggests, I don't think that should be allowed. If it's for some other reason, I think that needs to be clarified.

Edited June 3, 2014 by bbik

[Draco Knight]

I don't really see the point here, especially since the suggestion is based on the right to make 'decisions' regarding your scroll.

 

You made either the decision to bite an egg, or pick a vamp up from the AP, and when Biting given the warning that this Action is not reversable. Those are both pretty infomed scroll decisions, like Freezing, Abandoning, or AP grabbing.

 

If you do eventually decide that vamps are no longer your thing, you can Release them. You can't compare Zombies to Vampires and call for a.similar action to Expunge. Zombies were tied to your scroll forever, Vampires are not.

 

I'm not even sure the Cave remembers the original species of older Vampires, and what about original vampires.themselves? What would happen of I used this 'Action' on an '08 vampire? Nothing, I assume?

[Sir Barton]

Through much of modern cinematic vampire history, there have been vampires looking for a cure, but that has always eluded them. I don't see how a cure could be created in a medieval setting when we can't create one in our technological times.

 

Even if the condition could be cured, I think you would have to have a fail rate. It would be no different than trying to revive a dragon that you killed. Those attempts fail all the time. Much on DC is determined by fate instead of choice. You can choose to try any number of things, but there is no guarantee that you will succeed with anything apart from incubate, freezing, and teleport, since even influence fails from time to time and occasionally a hatchie that you try to abandon follows you back home instead. Even killing has a fail rate, so if a cure could be found, I don't think it could reasonably be a sure cure.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Sir Barton

[JavaTigress]

Through much of modern cinematic vampire history, there have been vampires looking for a cure, but that has always eluded them. I don't see how a cure could be created in a medieval setting when we can't create one in our technological times. 

 

Even if the condition could be cured, I think you would have to have a fail rate. It would be no different than trying to revive a dragon that you killed. Those attempts fail all the time. Much on DC is determined by fate instead of choice. You can choose to try any number of things, but there is no guarantee that you will succeed with anything apart from incubate and teleport, since even influence fails from time to time.

THIS. ALSO... as to the question of what about the Original vampies.

 

Isn't it generally considered that some vamps are more powerful than others?

 

That being... perhaps originals are just too STRONG for the cure to work on? Or perhaps they have been vamps for too long and don't REMEMBER what they were before or... Oh, there are any number of RP reasons you could come up with for it to not work on them. IF this is a thing that happens. That said, I don't see the point of a 'cure' in the first place if vamps are killable and releasable unlike zombies. OTHER, that is, than another way to hunt for rares. I am not OPPOSED to it per se, I just wouldn't use it and don't see the need. AND I will say, as someone that gives eggs to vampies for biting regularly, that if it is an attempt to get rares, I NEVER give rares to my vamps for biting so ( Though my Montagues do like pretty lineages)... if you cured a vamp from one of mine you would probably get a flamingo.

 

I don't know if that is true of most people who use bite, but I would GUESS that it is.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Silverswift

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't really see the point here, especially since the suggestion is based on the right to make 'decisions' regarding your scroll.

 

You made either the decision to bite an egg, or pick a vamp up from the AP, and when Biting given the warning that this Action is not reversable. Those are both pretty infomed scroll decisions, like Freezing, Abandoning, or AP grabbing.

 

If you do eventually decide that vamps are no longer your thing, you can Release them. You can't compare Zombies to Vampires and call for a.similar action to Expunge. Zombies were tied to your scroll forever, Vampires are not.

 

I'm not even sure the Cave remembers the original species of older Vampires, and what about original vampires.themselves? What would happen of I used this 'Action' on an '08 vampire? Nothing, I assume?

This, rather. You don't want a vamp, you don't have to have one.

[cyradis4]

I don't support, for many of the reasons listed already. Basically:

• Vampires are created by venom, altering the fundamental nature of the dragon while its still an embryo. Being an embryo, its in a state of flux. Once a dragon hatches, it makes no sense to be able to turn it back, because its in a much smaller state of flux.
• You can remove Vampires from your scroll if you don't want them, quite easily: Release them.
• If you picked up the Vampire from the AP, then that's a decision you made. You can always drop it back.
• If you bit the egg yourself, then that's a decision you made, yourself. And if you no longer want it? Abandon it.

There are some users who bite valuable eggs then toss them to the AP. This sounds like a way to reverse that decision of theirs while trying to "justify" it another way. This does not make sense, and unless the OP can come up with a better reason than "but Zombies do it", then I do not support.

 

Zombies, as has already been stated, could not be removed from the scroll originally, and their removal using Expunge makes sense. And Expunge doesn't return them to their previous state: it lets them "die". And as for killing and resurrecting? Most of the time, it doesn't work. And in resurrecting, you are re-animating an adult, not changing an adult's fundamental nature.

 

C4.

[danicast]

We already had this discussion before:

 

thread

 

Quoting TJ:

Unfortunately, this wouldn't quite work on any vampires currently existing, since there's no info stored on the original breed.

 

If you add the limitation that it only works on vampires that have existed for less than one (or two) months, then that problem goes away.

 

Also: I think of vampires more as parasites than undead beings.

 

I'm still think that the vampires don't need any change.

[Starscream]

I could see this as an effort to turn vampires bitten from rares back to the rare they were, particularity after a repulse and catch.

 

I am not opposed to the idea - however I would like to see the idea with considerable lethal consequences

 

[JavaTigress]

I could see this as an effort to turn vampires bitten from rares back to the rare they were, particularity after a repulse and catch.

 

I am not opposed to the idea - however I would like to see the idea with considerable lethal consequences

Kind of along the lines of turning it into a vamp in the first place?

 

I am not sure what the odds on biting are, tbh.

[dragongrrl]

This just doesn't seem to be a part of the Vampire lores that I am familiar with. Once vamped, you don't get a chance to be unvamped. Maybe, resouled, (Angel, Spike) or resurrected, (Darla) but that doesn't give the original life back. Once a Vamp, always a Vamp. The only release happens when a Vamp is staked, burned or beheaded.(IMO)

 

 

[LibbyLishly]

This just doesn't seem to be a part of the Vampire lores that I am familiar with. Once vamped, you don't get a chance to be unvamped. Maybe, resouled, (Angel, Spike) or resurrected, (Darla) but that doesn't give the original life back. Once a Vamp, always a Vamp. The only release happens when a Vamp is staked, burned or beheaded.(IMO)

This. I would be interested in seeing a Vampire-redemption sort of BSA for this reason, though I don't actually know what that would look like game-wise. I don't know, can a resurrected Vampire dragon breed? 0.o (Joking, by the way. I don't see how that fits either.)

[TheGrox]

I don't think this makes any sense, nor is there any point to it.

[Lady_DragonRider]

Maybe limit it only to hatching? As a hatchling, a dragon is still developing, still growing. Most even sprout wings before they are full-grown.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Lady_DragonRider

[Starscream]

Kind of along the lines of turning it into a vamp in the first place?

 

I am not sure what the odds on biting are, tbh.

If I am recalling - there is 50% turn, 25% death and 25% repulse (on average)

what I am thinking if the reverse was true50 - 75% death and the remainder being an equal unchanged (remains vamp without ability to try again) or reverts.

 

I have nearly 1000 vampires, I enjoy biting pretty eggs, because beautiful vampire lineage.

[olympe]

If I am recalling - there is 50% turn, 25% death and 25% repulse (on average)

what I am thinking if the reverse was true50 - 75% death and the remainder being an equal unchanged (remains vamp without ability to try again) or reverts.

 

I have nearly 1000 vampires, I enjoy biting pretty eggs, because beautiful vampire lineage.

That used to be the case in the beginning, but got changed (quietly) afterwards. (Or how else do you explain that people all over the board complained about (almost) only getting cracked eggs for their biting for a couple of months after the (very noticeable) change? To me, it seems that the current vampire bite statistics are dependent on the vampire ratios. (Hint: Always bite when there are numerous vamp eggs in the hatcheries - and you have a pretty high success rate.)

[Pixxelation]

I'm not really sure this idea makes sense. I've always assumed that the Vampire's venom causes the dragon embryo to mutate into a Vampire dragon. Since its genetic structure changes from it, it can't really be "reversed" because it never truly became the original dragon breed.

[edwardelricfreak]

I'm not against this suggestion, but I don't really see how it would work too well. As stated, our vampires are created when the embryos get injected with venom that turns them into vampires.

 

The only thing that maybe makes sense is unvamping vamp eggs. I can't see this working on hatchlings or adult Vampires. It's possible that there may be a way to reverse the venom if it hasn't been bitten for too long, though I feel like you'd have to use whatever BSA on it within the first few hours of the Bite, otherwise you'll be too late.

[annageckos]

Through much of modern cinematic vampire history, there have been vampires looking for a cure, but that has always eluded them. I don't see how a cure could be created in a medieval setting when we can't create one in our technological times.

 

Even if the condition could be cured, I think you would have to have a fail rate. It would be no different than trying to revive a dragon that you killed. Those attempts fail all the time. Much on DC is determined by fate instead of choice. You can choose to try any number of things, but there is no guarantee that you will succeed with anything apart from incubate, freezing, and teleport, since even influence fails from time to time and occasionally a hatchie that you try to abandon follows you back home instead. Even killing has a fail rate, so if a cure could be found, I don't think it could reasonably be a sure cure.

This is mostly true of most vampire movies/books. But it's also pretty common for vampires to be able to revert/be changed back if they have not fed yet and kill the head vampire or the vampire that turned them. But I don't think that really pertains to DC dragons. I don't really see a use for this, I wouldn't use it. And as far as I know vampires do not retain their breed information.

[danicast]

And as far as I know vampires do not retain their breed information.

Yeah, I posted TJ comments about that but somehow it seems that people decided to ignore that piece of information.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Yeah, I posted TJ comments about that but somehow it seems that people decided to ignore that piece of information.

Well, retention of breed information could always be added if this is added. The data of "who bit who" wasn't recorded for the first vampires created once the BSA was added (those still appear as "CB"), but that didn't stop TJ from adding the feature for the later ones.

 

Still neutral on this, I just don't think some lost data is a good reason to kill it. ^^