Refuse to Have Refusals!

[diaveborn]

idk it just sounds very disadvantageous.

Yeah, kind of my thinking as well. I was wondering if it was an option (which logistically doesn't seem feasible for reasons like you mentioned), who would use it? I'm certain some people would but I guess I'm just thinking there's a difference between someone saying they want the status quo, and them choosing to make certain things difficult for themselves. If I had to guess I'd say not everyone (in general, not talking specifically about people who have posted in this thread) who would support the status quo would choose to keep refusals if it were an option.

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

I'd be okay with a "enable/disable refusals" thing. I mean, if you like the "challenge" (again, though, I fail to see how something you have no ability to influence at all is a "challenge"), you can have it and those of us who don't want to deal with having the perfect mates refuse don't have to.

I'd totally support it being a scroll-choice.

 

Just putting my 2cents towards your question of how it's a challenge: The refusal itself isn't, obviously, since as you say, it's completely out of our control and, from what I understand, fairly random. However, it IS a challenge to then try to find another perfect mate for that dragon, stalking the AP or the biomes or being able to get enough trade-fodder to trade for exactly what you want. Getting *any* super-specific dragon is indeed a challenge (I'm looking at my serious lack of CB rares), and it's a challenge that *you* control.... The more effort you put into it, the more likely it is to happen.

[CNR4806]

That is the BIG difference I am seeing between complaining about refusals and complaining about how difficult CB metals are to catch. The refusals you have no choice in, they sometimes happen if you breed your dragons, often on the dragons that are going to be the biggest headaches to replace, whereas you COULD just decide NOT to hunt for CB metals, if you decide they are too difficult. I admit that I, personally, haven't seen a CB gold in the cave, for example. ALSO you can, perhaps, become a better cave hunter with practice, but as the post I quoted said, refusals aren't under your control at all.

 

CB metals are a challenge you can accept or not. Refusals are just a pain.

Breeding is voluntary. You don't necessarily have to play it, it isn't like putting a quiz on the login page that you must solve before being able to log in, that would be something that "you have no choice in".

 

By your logic, you can entirely bug out of this "frustrating" breeding game if you aren't happy with it, just like I don't bother cave-hunting for metals. And if I do bother, I accept the fact that those things are notoriously difficult to catch, just like there's a risk of refusals (and the subsequent requirement to find a replacement) when I decide to try breeding a new pair.

 

Not-all-that-serious suggestion, mostly just to brainstorm:

What about a scroll option that allows you to keep refusals, or turn them off?  That would allow the difficulty/challenge/RP reasons to stay there for the people who want it, and I don't see that their gameplay would be affected by how easy someone else's gameplay was.  Maybe you could only change your selection one time after you set it, or you could change it every X months, or maybe you were allowed to breed a certain number of times to get the feel of things before you set it once and never got to change it.

So you're suggesting a literal easy mode switch for real. Perhaps a "100% breeding chance" switch as well? That's also a chance game and I don't particularly like it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by CNR4806

[KageSora]

So you're suggesting a literal easy mode switch for real. Should we get an "100% breeding chance" switch as well? That's also a chance game and I don't particularly like it.

100% breeding I'd be okay with if it weren't for the fact that your breeding does, in fact, impact other players. Through the AP or because of the ratios, breeding impacts people other than you. However, your dragons not refusing each other impacts nobody but you.

 

 

Just putting my 2cents towards your question of how it's a challenge: The refusal itself isn't, obviously, since as you say, it's completely out of our control and, from what I understand, fairly random. However, it IS a challenge to then try to find another perfect mate for that dragon, stalking the AP or the biomes or being able to get enough trade-fodder to trade for exactly what you want. Getting *any* super-specific dragon is indeed a challenge (I'm looking at my serious lack of CB rares), and it's a challenge that *you* control.... The more effort you put into it, the more likely it is to happen.

Yeah... But I did that once. Why do I have to do it two, and if I'm unlucky, three or more times? Possibly with the effort required to get it increasing?

 

That's even assuming it IS replaceable.

 

I don't mind putting effort in and setting a goal for myself--what I DO mind is being told "oh, hey, sorry, you get no reward for that effort at all, you gotta do it over if you want a CHANCE to get your reward that you've been working towards!"

 

And that's exactly how I see refusals. There's a reason I don't work too much on lengthy breeding projects--refusals are frustrating enough if I just want a dang egg for freezing hatchlings, much less when I need a mate for a dragon.

Edited June 2, 2014 by KageSora

[edwardelricfreak]

Again, unless a lot of balancing between the options is done, having refusals would be rather disadvantageous...

 

I would rather have balanced options than outright getting rid of refusals completely. I'd rather have refusal "cooldowns" and more/less successful breeding the more you breed certain pairs over options. But more than anything, I'd WAY WAY WAY prefer having resetting BSAs over all of those options. Because refusals suck, but sometimes they are a thing that happens in real life. :\

[KageSora]

Because refusals suck, but sometimes they are a thing that happens in real life. :\

And sometimes people or animals die during the mating process in real life.

 

So, by that logic, I propose that there's a chance one or both of your dragons could die when you breed!

[Obscure_Trash]

I view "no interest" as "eh, I'm not in the mood tonight. Maybe later." Not that they're refusing that dragon, but they just aren't in the mood at that time. It's different than hating someone so much you don't want to have their offspring.

 

Same.

 

So then maybe they could also occasionally refuse, too.

 

No. Do. Not. Want. At. All. I would stop breeding whatsoever. This would be so incredibly frustrating. Unless you guys are talking about making refusals an alternate no interest message in which case, that doesn't really make sense - for one, especially now that refusals conveniently gray out, users should all know that a refusal is permanent. This would be unnecessary and confusing to change.

 

Well, as I said in another thread before...a friend of mine gave me the tip of using fertility on both dragons before the first breeding and she says she hasn't had a refusal once.

And I can say the same with difficult couples where I used double-fertility. They might not produce an egg on the first try but they don't refuse at least.

 

If this works (we'll need people who had refusals despite double-fertility to speak up or TJ to say something) you have your solution: get Purple dragons.

 

If this is working, it's honestly just a coincidence. From information TJ gave us when fertility came out (and I just personally doubt he would have so radically changed how it worked without mentioning it anywhere) 1) Fertility doesn't have to do with refusals at all - TJ has mentioned that in the beginning; it is only a breeding multiplier, not a multiplier for dragons liking each other and 2) using fertility on both mates just wastes a fertility because fertility only adds one multiplier.

 

~

 

I am getting quite annoyed with all my refusals lately. I would be happy for a BSA to re-try the dragons. I'm unsure of just removing refusals. It would certainly make things less frustrating. I suppose there could be some cases where no doesn't mean no forever (in which case yes we'd have to add random refusals to successful partners), but I guess overall the mechanic reasoning isn't consistent already anyway (holiday dragons during their holiday season, but holidays tend to be exceptions of a lot of things, so I'm unsure if they count...), so final decision should really just rest on what would be best for the game. /rambling unsure of how to pull this together

[Natayah]

The way I always understood the breeding, success rate and refusal process was, in my mind, to think of dragons having a number randomly assigned 1-100, for example. And the closer their numbers, the more likely they would breed together well. The further apart, the less likely, until they were so far apart they would just refuse.

 

Now I'm not saying this is how things set, but I'm just saying that if there is some sort of code that factors or randomly decides in whether dragons are going to breed great, somewhat, very little, or not at all, I'm not really sure a BSA is going to fix that. It seems to me that if they refuse once, they are going to eventually refuse again.

 

Not that I don't like the idea of having those BSA options because you never know. And I don't know how dragons do and don't work. But I _like_ having refusals. They may totally destroy my plans and hopes and dreams on some lineages. But its kinda like fertility or influence, it doesn't always work. Sometimes my dragons "misgender." This too can destroy my hopes and dreams (for a line, especially a tricky one). But those are my wants, and not my dragons'. I think it gives them a bit more personality and makes them seem like they have their own decisions they like to make.

 

I may not always like who they "decide" to breed or not breed with, but it does make those who click more easily more special. Not just because I pre-ordained it.

[KageSora]

No. Do. Not. Want. At. All. I would stop breeding whatsoever. This would be so incredibly frustrating. Unless you guys are talking about making refusals an alternate no interest message in which case, that doesn't really make sense - for one, especially now that refusals conveniently gray out, users should all know that a refusal is permanent. This would be unnecessary and confusing to change.

The idea was, in fact, "let proven pairs suddenly refuse".

 

Because, hey, if people are suggesting that "no sometimes means no forever in real life so it should be in the game because realism" then the logical extension of that is "yes doesn't always mean yes forever for real life so add it in because realism".

 

Realism to some degree works--but it can't be a be-all, end-all argument as to why something should be left alone or added or removed.

 

I mean, like I said in my last post, realistically sometimes the mating process proves fatal (even in species where death isn't the natural result of it--look at people who have a heart attack during sex!), so your dragons should have a chance of dying when you breed them if you want to argue the realism aspect for mechanics of breeding.

 

This is likely not something in place because it's a detrimental thing. Personally, I view refusals the same way. They add nothing but frustration to me, therefore I see them as entirely detrimental.

Edited June 2, 2014 by KageSora

[Tawanda001]

But its kinda like fertility or influence, it doesn't always work. Sometimes my dragons "misgender." This too can destroy my hopes and dreams (for a line, especially a tricky one).

Maybe, just maybe I have a lot of really bad luck (but from reading various posts I don't think I'm an unusual case) but the chances of refusals seem to be much, much higher than a misgender. Someone mentioned 20-25% which seems to be somewhat in line with what I am experiencing. I influence almost all my eggs and very rarely get a misgender.

I'm going to discount fertility because even if it's a fail it doesn't permanently affect ability to create lineages. It's not a one time shot, you have plenty more chances

[Mondat]

I've never experienced misgendering, I consider myself lucky.

 

If this is working, it's honestly just a coincidence. From information TJ gave us when fertility came out (and I just personally doubt he would have so radically changed how it worked without mentioning it anywhere) 1) Fertility doesn't have to do with refusals at all - TJ has mentioned that in the beginning; it is only a breeding multiplier, not a multiplier for dragons liking each other and 2) using fertility on both mates just wastes a fertility because fertility only adds one multiplier.

I went to the news thread from 2011 and you are right about 2), couldn't find anything about 1) while I was flying over some pages.

But there is something I do not get, though: (from what I understand from your post) there seem to be two separate codes for the breeding process. One for "dragons liking each other" and then "success rate". Shouldn't these be connected to each other/be the same thing?

These are pixel dragons - they do what the creator has put in their codes. They do not have an own mind.

Increases the chance that a dragon of your choosing will successfully breed an egg.

I'd have liked to think that "increasing chances for successful breeding" => "decreasing chances for refusal on the first try". Even if I don't like a guy or think he doesn't have the genes to give me healthy, strong and pretty children, he can make me pregnant.

From my own experience, I know that my 2G Shimmer "doesn't like" the perfect 2G Mint mate. They haven't given me a 3G Shimmer yet and I feel that I even have difficulties producing a Mint if I don't use Fertilize. I do think they would have refused on the first breeding if I had not used Fertilize, but what do I know..?

[Ha-Ki]

How about this compromise: During valentine's event, a pair that refused each other can get caught up in valentine's spirit and forget about prior refusals. After the event, when the effect of valentine's wears off, they'd remember and refuse each other again.

 

So during valentine's breeding period, ALL dragons would be treated like valentine's dragons, meaning they won't refuse any mate and they will produce an egg for sure. Whether you get the mother's or the father's breed would still be determined by chance. Maybe adding a chance for a mixed multiclutch (only during the event) would be an idea. So if you had that one important pair that refused each other, you can get an egg from them once a year, which is better than nothing.

 

I don't see much harm in that, except maybe that if metal x metal pairings were guaranteed to produce an egg at valentine's, that would screw up the ratios. Not sure what to do about that.

[Fuzzbucket]

Which is why it would always be possible for them to never stop refusing, but get less likely. If someone is persistent enough, they usually are eventually successful. If we are not allowing the dragon to breed with any other dragon, it would be bound to give in eventually to pass on its DNA.

There are unquestionably men in my life who I would never never NEVER mate with no matter what they said. Even if they promised that if I did they would never come near me again.

 

I believe in refusals as a concept . I absolutely do.

 

As an aside, there is a pheasant in our yard who is clearly NOT going to mate with ANYONE. EVAH !!

 

These things do happen

[KageSora]

There are unquestionably men in my life who I would never never NEVER mate with no matter what they said. Even if they promised that if I did they would never come near me again.

 

I believe in refusals as a concept . I absolutely do.

 

As an aside, there is a pheasant in our yard who is clearly NOT going to mate with ANYONE. EVAH !!

 

These things do happen

And, again, by that logic our dragons should have a chance of dying when they breed, because it does happen that something dies during the mating process, even when it's not a typical part of it.

 

And established pairs should start refusing each other forever for no reason.

 

Just because it does happen in reality doesn't mean it has to be brought into a game that many people enjoy because it's an escape from reality.

Edited June 2, 2014 by KageSora

[LibbyLishly]

A lot happened while I was sleeping... 0.0

 

I completely agree with everything KageSora is saying. To keep permanent refusals on the theory that they're "realistic" opens the door to all kinds of bizarre natural, but real, occurrences that would deteriorate the game completely.

 

I am one of the people who WOULD NOT find it boring to know that I had a chance of a successful breeding with every mate. It's amazing how long two dragons can "show no interest", and that's more than enough of a pain for me. It's not "guaranteed success" because every non-refusing pairing DOES NOT result in an egg, and certainly not in the egg of the breed you wanted. That's just not a logical argument.

 

If you seriously enjoy having the added frustration of constant refusals, why not support the toggle-on/toggle-off suggestion? I find it a bit hypocritical if, even though you might want it to be more difficult so that you don't get bored and so that you can experience some "realism", you're not interested in allowing people who HATE that element of the game and who DON'T find it realistic to bypass it.

 

And as someone already pointed out, trying to compare this to catching CB metals is a false comparison. I can choose to stalk CB metals in the cave. I can't choose to have basically irreplaceable mates refuse or accept each other. It has nothing to do with my abilities or skills in the game. It's just stupid chance.

 

Finally, it's offensive to compare wanting this element of the game to change to wanting everything in the game to suddenly become super easy. If trying to improve the game is such a bad thing, why do we even have a suggestions forum at all?

 

Sorry for all the capslock. It's too early to be finding good words to use for emphasis.

Edited June 2, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[Fuzzbucket]

No - fair enough - just someone said that sooner or later they would give in - and that is NOT true.

 

I quite like Starscream's idea

 

but I like dustpuppy's suggestion best:

 

I agree. I had some absolutely disastrous refusals but still think the game NEEDS that element of chance. "Will they like each other?" is so much more exciting and makes more sense RP-wise than "click here, receive egg". It adds a kind of personality to dragons that otherwise are just pictures.

 

It adds to the gameplay, it makes sense, it doesn't keep anyone from achieving their goals (it'll just take longer and ultimately increase the happiness once you find a mate).

 

However, what some people wrote here about individuals learning to like each other is a good point. Refusals could wear off after X weeks/months, revealing a "try again?" link with a high risk of another refusal. How does that sound?

I personally prefer knowing "they hate each other, no point in forcing them together ever again" but no one would have to try again, so I see no problem there.

[cyradis4]

Ok, just skimmed and....

 

To established pairs refusing:

NO. No. no. no. No. NO.

Just NO.

 

I mean, seriously people! Just because you like having your projects turned into a living hell does not mean other people like it too! And just because you don't have a lot of lineage projects doesn't mean that others don't! I get enough refusals without having established pairs suddenly start refusing.

 

Now, with regards to refusals:

I personally think they do add something to the game, but with people increasingly creating breeding projects (and with the rise of Exclusive CBs! But that's an argument for another thread), there does need to be a way to reverse the hard-to-replace refusals while strongly encouraging people to leave the easy-to-replace refusals in place.

 

That to me says BSA, either Reconcile or Harmonize (or a combination of the two, ie Reconcile's mechanics with Harmonize's dragons, though so long as its not a one-shot-deal I'd be happy).

 

For it to be a scroll action... I'm not a fan of it being a scroll action like Freeze. Or for having refusals wear out after a certain amount of time. Why? Because I want to be able to reverse targeted refusals, not all of them. And neither Harmonize nor Reconcile guarantee an immediate reversal: They both just give the chance that the dragons will not reject. But, with both (maybe), even if you get a 2nd refusal, you can try again after a cool down period. So it might take you 6 months or a year to get the dragons to like each other, but the impossible-to-replace pairs are worth it. The common refusals? I doubt anyone would try to reverse an easy-to-replace refusal, simply because the proposed BSAs have such long cooldowns.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Ruby Eyes]

I went to the news thread from 2011 and you are right about 2), couldn't find anything about 1) while I was flying over some pages.

But there is something I do not get, though: (from what I understand from your post) there seem to be two separate codes for the breeding process. One for "dragons liking each other" and then "success rate". Shouldn't these be connected to each other/be the same thing?

Who said it's not connected? Some things being connected doesn't make them "the same thing" though. Husband and wife are connected through marriage, but they are not the same person

 

I see breeding as a chain of decisions, something like this hypothetical process outline, starting from hitting that "breed" link next to a possible mate:

1. Do the two like each other?

   No => Refusal, end of story.

   Yes => continue.

2. Are they interested right now?

   No => "no interest" message, end of breeding.

   Yes => continue.

3. Make pool of possible outcome breeds and select one.

   Is the selected breed ...

   • metallic/rare: assume a base success value of X = 1. (note: I just pulled these categories and numbers out of my sit-upon, so don't take them too scientifically)
   • common: assume a base success of X = 50
   • Frill/holiday outside their holiday: X = zero.
4. Has one of the dragons been fertilized?

   Yes => set multiplier Y = 1.5

   No => keep Y = 1 (I suspect you know what you get if you multiply stuff with 1)

5. Now multiply X by Y for your chance to get an egg (e.g. 75 for a fertilized common breed using sample numbers above).
6. Then ask a randomizer for a value Z within a range of 0 to 100 and then have the dragon's owner curse or admire said randomizer.

(I suspect that Holiday breedings during their holidays follow a slightly different, shorter line.)

 

 

See, the above is just how I'm imagining the breeding process, me being a programmer and such. Personally, I wouldn't just throw all possible outcomes (refusal, no interest, no egg, egg of breed 1, 2 or hybrid) into a pool and select from there, but it seems that some players here are actually assuming this pool method rather than the chain method above. As long as DC doesn't go open-source, we have no chance to really know, but either way, trying to connect feature X with effect Y even though it's not mentioned anywhere officially, just because of a handful of samples is ... superstition, you could say.

 

 

To stay on topic, my thoughts regarding narrative justification: DC is a world of dragons, some of which can do magic. It would totally be narratively justified to have a BSA for mending broken hearts or for coercing dragons into liking each other (just for producing one egg or even permanently), just like it would be justified to allow dragons to get to know each other better after living such a long time with the same owner (see dustpuppy's "Try again?")

[Natayah]

I think people in this thread pretty much all agree that a BSA for refusals to try and work again is a good idea. However, I'm not sure _this_ proposed idea is the way to go. It has nothing to do with "realism" or "roleplay" or "player satisfaction vs game mechanics."

 

Everyone can win in their own way, but I feel this makes the game a little too simple and thus removes the challenge and therefore fun and accomplishment from playing it. Not the entire game, but certainly a good chunk of it.

 

I think BSAs are fantastic. It doesn't matter what logic you use, I would continue to feel this particular option would take away about the only challenging aspect that remains equal for all players, new and old, few dragons to glorious rare dragons and rare lines.

 

But I will certainly go re-add my support for the BSA options. I don't enjoy watching someone who needed a successful breeding to complete some rare hard work project destroyed and unable to be replaced because I find it amusing or realistic. I don't. I get that. Been there. But I think someone should have to work a tad harder than just turning off the option.

[Obscure_Trash]

I've never experienced misgendering, I consider myself lucky.

 

 

I went to the news thread from 2011 and you are right about 2), couldn't find anything about 1) while I was flying over some pages.

But there is something I do not get, though: (from what I understand from your post) there seem to be two separate codes for the breeding process. One for "dragons liking each other" and then "success rate". Shouldn't these be connected to each other/be the same thing?

These are pixel dragons - they do what the creator has put in their codes. They do not have an own mind.

 

I'd have liked to think that "increasing chances for successful breeding" => "decreasing chances for refusal on the first try". Even if I don't like a guy or think he doesn't have the genes to give me healthy, strong and pretty children, he can make me pregnant.

From my own experience, I know that my 2G Shimmer "doesn't like" the perfect 2G Mint mate. They haven't given me a 3G Shimmer yet and I feel that I even have difficulties producing a Mint if I don't use Fertilize. I do think they would have refused on the first breeding if I had not used Fertilize, but what do I know..?

Two was in a help thread somewhere that's long been cleaned. I'll do some searches tonight if I have time to see if he said it anywhere else.

 

The chances of refusal/compatibility are separate from no interest/producing an egg. The first is also really only in affect the first time they breed. Just because I'm head over heels with someone in real life doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to make a baby with them. Maybe he's infertile. Maybe I am.

 

There are some dragons that are just difficult with each other. There are certain pairs that are more likely to produce with each other - and this is individual dragons, not breeds or anything. It's difficult with second gens like that but there are just some pairs that will be good producers and some that will not. Dragons may breed better if you wait a little longer between breeding them and if you switch up partners. But just because they aren't good breeders doesn't mean they were destined to refuse. They didn't refuse so they weren't destined to refuse. xP I've got my own frustrating pairs - a dragon that refused two of her potential mates in a row and is a slow breeder with the third. She's just going to be difficult for me. That's it.

 

~

 

One thing I forgot to comment on before: there are just some suggestions where making it an option doesn't make sense and this is one of them. That's just making it too complex. I know we all like to play a certain game but I think refusals or no refusals is something that should be sitewide. >_e

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ok, just skimmed and....

 

To established pairs refusing:

NO. No. no. no. No. NO.

Just NO.

 

I mean, seriously people! Just because you like having your projects turned into a living hell does not mean other people like it too! And just because you don't have a lot of lineage projects doesn't mean that others don't! I get enough refusals without having established pairs suddenly start refusing.

I think the point was that realism is not always desirable in the game, not that the mechanism would be a good one to add. People arguing for the realism of some dragons always hating each other should also then be arguing for breeds to be able to refuse at any time, for us to not be able to abandon most of our dragon's eggs, for trying to kill dragons causing a game over... but I don't see anyone arguing for that! Fun game play > logic, although a balance is best.

 

@Ha-ki: A pair that can only breed once a year really does me no good. I have only one CB Rosebud (froze the other due to the old limits), so if my low gen Silver Tinsel from Rosebud had refused her, I would've really been up a creek without a paddle. All the good stuff I paid for that Tinsel is now practically wasted, since stairs are the most desirable prize lineages, and I can no longer breed them... and even during the Holiday he'll probably just breed Rosebuds instead! So I'd prefer something much more permanent than a one time fling (...and, on top of that, one time flings don't seem truly romantic or loving ).

 

(Note that the above is a dramatic example--I do have the dragons in question, and I was extremely nervous for a good two weeks that they might refuse, but thank God they didn't! ;A; <3)

 

There are some dragons that are just difficult with each other. There are certain pairs that are more likely to produce with each other - and this is individual dragons, not breeds or anything.

 

Has this been confirmed 100% by TJ? If so it's really annoying, a flat rate would be better ;;

Edited June 2, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Mondat]

@Ruby:

Sock said Fertility has nothing to do with refusals

 

The way you "explained" it makes it much clearer to me, thanks.

I was thinking a bit about "true/false" and "if" (?) commands though - I had some programming at school over 10 years ago, too bad I do not remember anything anymore, I once could do real cool stuff haha.

 

As long as DC doesn't go open-source, we have no chance to really know, but either way, trying to connect feature X with effect Y even though it's not mentioned anywhere officially, just because of a handful of samples is ... superstition, you could say.

Oh, better be careful with saying that, Ruby . Considering that nobody but TJ knows for sure and many players create suggestions based on "superstition", "assumption" and/or "personal experience/preference".

 

 

Regarding this suggestion...I wouldn't mind.

I think the same as Libby, I do not think it would be boring for me if there were no refusals - frankly, I would probably feel happy and a bit relieved while playing with my pixels.

I have some dragons who are "no interest" or "didn't produce an egg" OR "I do not breed true for 6 months hihihi I DON'T CARE" and it is annoying enough.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Mondat

[Pixxelation]

No - fair enough - just someone said that sooner or later they would give in - and that is NOT true.

 

I quite like Starscream's idea

 

but I like dustpuppy's suggestion best:

 

Yeah, that was me, and I stand by that. Remember that animals are very different when it comes to breeding. Ofttimes, they'd rather breed with a dissatisfying mate than not breed at all. In addition, a large percentage of animal mating is forced. Now, because I know the human-level intelligence is about to come, remember that, although dragons do share and possibly surpass our intelligence level, we know very little about their culture, such as what is and isn't acceptable. For this reason, I've always viewed their culture as more animalistic, despite their intelligence levels. This helps to explain how they are "domesticated," or at least why they stay in your cave.

[LibbyLishly]

Yeah, that was me, and I stand by that. Remember that animals are very different when it comes to breeding. Ofttimes, they'd rather breed with a dissatisfying mate than not breed at all. In addition, a large percentage of animal mating is forced. Now, because I know the human-level intelligence is about to come, remember that, although dragons do share and possibly surpass our intelligence level, we know very little about their culture, such as what is and isn't acceptable. For this reason, I've always viewed their culture as more animalistic, despite their intelligence levels. This helps to explain how they are "domesticated," or at least why they stay in your cave.

To second PieMaster's thoughts on dragon intelligence, remember that they have very animalistic tendencies when it comes to their young - they won't go near their own baby if they smell human on it; they (apparently) allow their young to be abandoned, frozen, traded, or killed by us; and they are not naturally monogamous (monogamy only happens if it's player-enforced... and for that matter, any tame-dragon mating at all is by the hands of the players).

Edited June 2, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[lilacamy931]

I actually find refusals really intense - so much so I put of breeding a particular pair just as if they refused I was going to be devastated (luckily that pairing succeeded) but other pairings - particularly where you can not replace such a pairing those dragons do become a bit redundant...

 

If it could be rethought with a second chance in mind that be great. I have some holiday pairings that will only now be used once a year which is a great great shame (yes some of the pairings are replaceable but not all so easily).