Refuse to Have Refusals!

[edwardelricfreak]

And even then, it's rather lousy realism; as has been stated, many married couples are people who used to be unable to tolerate each other. It's also realism that interferes with the game. I am not aware of any other adoptables site that has such a silly mechanic because all it does is anger players.

That's why I'd rather support the BSAs. They reset a refusal so you can try again. But people refusing each other FOREVER are also cases, even if it's one way. So I say keep them and do not support totally getting rid of refusals.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Dragons refuse not because they don't "get along" but because they don't think the dragon they refused was a suitable mate.

 

Maybe that's true of your dragons, EEF, but I fancy mine mostly hate each other for personal reasons

 

Unless TJ says otherwise, I assume most of our dragons are at human level intelligence or greater. They can use telepathy, for one thing, and many of them have other traits suggesting consciousness--we have dragons that use magic, that refuse to do harm to others, who form deeply loyal bonds, who take in orphaned dragons, ones who engage in riddle battles with their extra heads. I think a handful were designed to be basic animals, but some clearly aren't, and I'd hazard that most of the neutral breeds are intelligent as well.

 

Still,, for the sake of fun game play, sometimes our dragons have to act "dumb" (letting us abandon their babies, stab them to death, give them silly names, etc). It could be argued that this situation is another one where you have to ignore their intelligence for the sake of game play, but provided TJ gives us a way to reverse refusals, I would like to see it kept around, as it's one of the few cases in DC where logic can go hand in hand with game play without utterly destroying it (heck, it can even make for fun descriptions and story imagining, although it's not quite so entertaining right now when they can be permanent!).

 

[edwardelricfreak]

I'm sure they also happen to just not "get along", but it's DEFINITELY a suitable mate thing, too.

[OtomeKristinOtaku]

I think there should be an action to undo refusal. I mean, in real life, enemies that used to hate each other can develop friendship or maybe love eventually, so why not for dragons? Maybe after months of staying in the same cave(a.k.a scroll) they decided that the other isn't so bad and started to become friends?

 

I just don't see why Refusals would or should be permanent.

Edited June 1, 2014 by OtomeKristinOtaku

[HeatherMarie]

That's why I'd rather support the BSAs. They reset a refusal so you can try again. But people refusing each other FOREVER are also cases, even if it's one way. So I say keep them and do not support totally getting rid of refusals.

Definitely agree.

 

It makes complete sense for some dragons to be all "ew no!" at one point, and then time passes and they meet up again and hey, attitudes have changed. THAT makes complete sense, and I support any feature to allow attempts at resetting a refusal.

 

It does NOT make sense to suddenly take away Refusals forever, and make it so that *every single dragon* ALWAYS says "yes, I'll mate with you!". I'm sorry, but I do not see dragons doing that.

 

And in regards to not seeing other adoptables sites that have features that really only anger users.... I see it all the time. In fact, off the top of my head, how about one that has force-abandoning your adoptable if you don't log on in a certain amount of time... I think that's *way* more harsh then just two adoptables not wanting to mate together.

[Ha-Ki]

I don't support this. Yes, refusals can be annoying. But they also add that thrill when you breed two dragons for the first time. Especially after working long on a lineage and breeding the final pair for the first time, I am very excited about it. Will they refuse, or will they breed? That feeling of relief, when you get "no interest". Refusals are rather rare, but if they didn't exist at all, I'd be frustrated about getting "no interest". With refusals, I'm happy that it's only "no interest". If we remove refusals completely, what challenge would there be?

 

Refusals also add an extra difficulty in planning lineages, because you don't simply have to collect x dragons of a certain breed and breed them together, but you also have to take into account which pairs didn't like each other, you switch mates, you plan again... I do enjoy having that extra difficulty and thrill added to the game.

 

I do support having a way to remove refusals though. It should not be easy to remove a refusal, and I absolutely think that we should have to work hard for it. As mentioned above - if it's too easy, what's the challenge? Making everything easy in DC would take out part of the fun for me.

[Fuzzbucket]

While it is always frustrating to get a refusal, I would rather know and get it over with so I know to find a different mate, even if it's a rare. And I do know how frustrating that is! But, being stuck with endless "no interests" just seems like being stuck in an endless time loop.

 

I do think refusals serve a purpose. I therefore refuse to refuse refusals.

This. It is part of the game; it always has been.

 

Also - what about the violent frustration of those of us who gave up on a pairing and did something MUCH less nice - and now find they could have done the other, but it's too late ? (or would old refusals stick ?)

 

Glares at a few seasonals but I am NOT starting that one again ever.... not to mention the trades I lost out on when my CB frill decided she didn't like a whole string of mates.

[purplehaze]

First of all, let me say I am a lineage breeder and have had some pretty disastrous refusals. Nevertheless, I am not for this suggestion.

 

Refusals add a level of challenge to building lineages that we wouldn't have if every pairing was guaranteed. Are they annoying? Yes. Have I had some that just make me want to cry? Yes! But I am really tired of all the suggestions that want to remove all the difficulties in the game. If everything is easy and just a matter of a few clicks to get everything you want, why even bother playing the game?

 

I could support some of the BSA suggestions for removing refusals, but I don't even think those should have a 100% success rate.

[Amazon_warrior]

First of all, let me say I am a lineage breeder and have had some pretty disastrous refusals. Nevertheless, I am not for this suggestion.

 

Refusals add a level of challenge to building lineages that we wouldn't have if every pairing was guaranteed. Are they annoying? Yes. Have I had some that just make me want to cry? Yes! But I am really tired of all the suggestions that want to remove all the difficulties in the game. If everything is easy and just a matter of a few clicks to get everything you want, why even bother playing the game?

 

I could support some of the BSA suggestions for removing refusals, but I don't even think those should have a 100% success rate.

So much this. And yes, I've had my share of teeth-gritting refusals, but it presents a challenge to be overcome and ultimately (imo) leads to a more interesting game.

[LibbyLishly]

Here's the thing, though: getting rid of the refusal system wouldn't guarantee successful breedings. You just would always have a chance, however slim, of having a chosen pair reproduce, but mates could still "show no interest" whenever they felt like it. Right now, I have a dragon species (*cough*THUNDERS*cough*) who are constantly showing no interest, even when I load them up with Fertility. That, to me, is much more realistic than "refusing to even go near each other FOREVER AND EVER".

 

To be frank, there are days when I get a string of refusals that make me wonder why I play this game in the first place. Usually it's just a fun waste of time, and I like to collect dragons and work on my little projects. If I want a challenge, I either work on a lineage where the intended mates are constantly "showing no interest" or I go try to catch rares. I'm not interested in having an extra challenge forced upon me, especially when it concerns nigh-irreplaceable dragons or more months of utterly frustrating attempts at finding that replacement.

 

If you like the 'challenge' that refusals cause, that's fine, that's great, good for you. But I don't have the time or the energy for that and I prefer to set my own challenges, thanks.

 

All that said, I'd be 100% okay with refusals existing if there was a way to reverse them - I'm really interested in the Valentine 'Reconcile' BSA, and I will support basically anything that gives more than a one-shot chance at reversing a refusal. But the way the system is now is problematic at best and a game-breaker at worst.

 

[Amazon_warrior]

I suppose I should note that I'm not opposed to a BSA or something that'll mitigate the effects of specific refusals; that sort of thing adds to game-play and creates additional goals and achievements. (And I could *totally* use it for some of my code dragons... ). It's just that refusals are still an integral part of the game mechanics and I don't think they should be wiped out just like that. *shrug*

[dustpuppy]

First of all, let me say I am a lineage breeder and have had some pretty disastrous refusals. Nevertheless, I am not for this suggestion.

 

Refusals add a level of challenge to building lineages that we wouldn't have if every pairing was guaranteed. Are they annoying? Yes. Have I had some that just make me want to cry? Yes! But I am really tired of all the suggestions that want to remove all the difficulties in the game. If everything is easy and just a matter of a few clicks to get everything you want, why even bother playing the game?

 

I could support some of the BSA suggestions for removing refusals, but I don't even think those should have a 100% success rate.

I agree. I had some absolutely disastrous refusals but still think the game NEEDS that element of chance. "Will they like each other?" is so much more exciting and makes more sense RP-wise than "click here, receive egg". It adds a kind of personality to dragons that otherwise are just pictures.

 

It adds to the gameplay, it makes sense, it doesn't keep anyone from achieving their goals (it'll just take longer and ultimately increase the happiness once you find a mate).

 

However, what some people wrote here about individuals learning to like each other is a good point. Refusals could wear off after X weeks/months, revealing a "try again?" link with a high risk of another refusal. How does that sound?

I personally prefer knowing "they hate each other, no point in forcing them together ever again" but no one would have to try again, so I see no problem there.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I agree. I had some absolutely disastrous refusals but still think the game NEEDS that element of chance. "Will they like each other?" is so much more exciting and makes more sense RP-wise than "click here, receive egg". It adds a kind of personality to dragons that otherwise are just pictures.

 

It adds to the gameplay, it makes sense, it doesn't keep anyone from achieving their goals (it'll just take longer and ultimately increase the happiness once you find a mate).

 

However, what some people wrote here about individuals learning to like each other is a good point. Refusals could wear off after X weeks/months, revealing a "try again?" link with a high risk of another refusal. How does that sound?

I personally prefer knowing "they hate each other, no point in forcing them together ever again" but no one would have to try again, so I see no problem there.

You know - I like that better than ANYTHING else so far suggested. It's natural and it makes sense.

[edwardelricfreak]

If there really were to be no refusals at all, ever, or if they eventually wear off like what dustpuppy said:

However, what some people wrote here about individuals learning to like each other is a good point. Refusals could wear off after X weeks/months, revealing a "try again?" link with a high risk of another refusal. How does that sound?

I personally prefer knowing "they hate each other, no point in forcing them together ever again" but no one would have to try again, so I see no problem there.

...then I think that the chance of successfully breeding should plummet to counteract that. Yes, there wouldn't be refusals (or at least ones that last forever), but you'll probably get "no interest" or "they tried but were unsuccessful" more than getting an egg.

 

I don't think successful breeding would be lowered if BSAs were made to counteract a few refusals, because the ones suggested have long cooldowns and only target one pair, not basically every dragon.

 

Hopefully, either way, Fertility maybe gets a boost, or possibly changes to give multiple eggs or something like what TJ suggested over here.

[Pixxelation]

Personally, I've always viewed the "no interest" message as very similar in idea to that of refusals; the two dragons don't like each other /at that time/, but think it over before you next attempt to breed them. Besides, refusals don't make any sense at the moment, either; it's very easy for a couple to go from being in love to despising each other. That's why I view "no interest" in that way, in addition to it being more realistic.

[edwardelricfreak]

I view "no interest" as "eh, I'm not in the mood tonight. Maybe later." Not that they're refusing that dragon, but they just aren't in the mood at that time. It's different than hating someone so much you don't want to have their offspring.

Edited June 1, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[LibbyLishly]

I've always seen "no interest" the same way as PieMaster - that the couple doesn't particularly like each other (at least right now) and will require some coaxing to accept each other as mates, even if they've already successfully mated before. To me, that's way more realistic, both on a human and an animal kingdom level.

[InugamiZERO]

I've always seen no interest the same as edwardelricfreak

I'm against removing refusals and yeah I've had dragons refuse, I remember my first refusal very well it was two hard to get lineaged dragons who I still call some nasty names when I see them

[CNR4806]

I find working to find a replacement challenging and satisfying enough to outweigh the initial frustration of the refusal.

 

Yes, there are pairs that are nigh-irreplacable, which is where the refusal-removal BSA suggestions come in.

 

Flat-out removing refusals is simply turning the easy mode switch on, and I can't find anything convincing me that removing it will enhance gameplay in any way (at least the BSA suggestions, duh, adds a BSA and doesn't actually remove any gameplay element).

 

If you like the 'challenge' that refusals cause, that's fine, that's great, good for you. But I don't have the time or the energy for that and I prefer to set my own challenges, thanks.

Hey, I don't have the time or energy to get CB metals either. Can I have those rain down on my scroll too?

 

If we turn easy mode on for everything that someone doesn't like the challenge (or more accurately, difficulty) in it, there would be no challenges left in DC.

Edited June 2, 2014 by CNR4806

[Pixxelation]

"Challenge: a task or situation that tests one's abilities"

 

Refusals are not a challenge because they are 100% out of your control and are purely luck, are not always replaceable dragons (some owners of artists' alts only allow you to be on their list or lists a single time, and will not offer replacements, or flat out stopped breeding/don't breed), and do not really test one's ability to overcome anything besides an obstacle that sometimes cannot, no matter what you try, be fixed. That's not a challenge. That's a feature in the game that limits the amount of fun a user can have.

Edited June 2, 2014 by PieMaster

[edwardelricfreak]

"Challenge: a task or situation that tests one's ability's"

 

Refusals are not a challenge because they are 100% out of your control and are purely luck, are not always replaceable dragons (some owners of artists' alts only allow you to be on their list or lists a single time, and will not offer replacements, or flat out stopped breeding/don't breed), and do not really test one's ability to overcome anything besides an obstacle that sometimes cannot, no matter what you try, be fixed. That's not a challenge. That's a feature in the game that limits the amount of fun a user can have.

And I think it would be fun to grab a bagillion silvers from the cave. But my fun is limited.

 

Again, I would prefer a useful BSA rather than completely taking away refusals, because completely taking them away makes no sense.

[Pixxelation]

And I think it would be fun to grab a bagillion silvers from the cave. But my fun is limited.

 

Again, I would prefer a useful BSA rather than completely taking away refusals, because completely taking them away makes no sense.

And some people do, and easily as well, because they possess the ability and time to do so. That shows that they have the ability to do the given task and overcome the given difficulties.

 

~

 

Here's an alternative suggestion: Make refusals no longer permanent, but something that has a higher chance of recurring than "no interest". Each time the pair is bred, the chance of a refusal would lower until they stop refusing. This would keep the mechanic, but make it possible to reverse, make more sense, and give the user some sense of hope. In addition, you wouldn't need to have a dragon only obtainable once a year, or even a dragon separate from the pair at all, to overcome the refusal.

Edited June 2, 2014 by PieMaster

[Mysfytt]

This ^

 

Or have it stick for a few month instead of permanently like a longer running cooldown period.

 

That way you may have a chance to get them to like each other later

 

having them hate each other for life sux, and is indeed unrealistic - even people change their mind about their feelings. I'm sure dragons would.

[edwardelricfreak]

And some people never change their minds, like I'm sure some dragons wouldn't. I feel like dragons are still a bit more animalistic than humans, though, so they're still looking for a good mate to produce viable offspring, so when they get picky, they get picky.

 

I think the chance of refusal should always be possible, but lowering the chances the more successfully they breed is okay I guess.

 

I would still prefer a BSA because that would give some dragons more of a use.

[Pixxelation]

And some people never change their minds, like I'm sure some dragons wouldn't. I feel like dragons are still a bit more animalistic than humans, though, so they're still looking for a good mate to produce viable offspring, so when they get picky, they get picky.

 

I think the chance of refusal should always be possible, but lowering the chances the more successfully they breed is okay I guess.

 

I would still prefer a BSA because that would give some dragons more of a use.

Which is why it would always be possible for them to never stop refusing, but get less likely. If someone is persistent enough, they usually are eventually successful. If we are not allowing the dragon to breed with any other dragon, it would be bound to give in eventually to pass on its DNA.