ANSWERED:Positive Post Affirmation Feature?

[Marrionetta]

I would love to see an affirmation or agreement feature added to posts on the forum. Today I noticed some really positive discourse about the frilled dragons, and I wish I had a non-spammy way of cheering on folks who made tasteful posts! I was so impressed. Sometimes I don't have anything substantive to add to the discussion, but still desire to hand out 'cookies.'

 

I don't know if Invision forum software has support for a cookie jar feature, but if it does, I'd love to see it implemented on DC Forums!

 

That is all. Thanks!

[Lythiaren]

If there was a like button on this forum I would press it for this post.

[Flamingo]

I do not approve, because it has the very real potential to be nothing but one big popularity plug.

[Fuzzbucket]

If there were a like button on this forum I wouldn't press it AT ALL. Please let's not bring FB here.

 

I was pleased to see that thread go the way it (eventually) did (and I want Frills back now that it seems to be possible, and I had more I wanted to say - positive stuff and stuff about prizes ) but even so - I'd rather PM any cookies I want to hand out.

 

Like buttons tend to lead to people "liking" unthinkingly - INCLUDING VILE POSTS - not long ago there were several thousand "likes" to a post saying a girl on FB was a fat b*tch or something - and she eventually killed herself. The people who had clicked just said "well, we clicked cuz that's what you do when your friends post..." They were amazed that she felt that hurt. And some unpleasant posts about me on FB (where I don't go but someone kindly told me ) got a lot of likes from FRIENDS of mine; I emailed them to say I'd heard and they were all "oops, didn't read it, just saw who had posted, so I liked it cuz you do that..."

 

Sure, good posts may make us feel like patting posters on the head - but it CAN also mean people blindly supporting sheer nastiness because they like the poster.

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[DigitalGarden]

It's a cute option as I've seen it on other forums, but, as every option, it gives birth to some problems, like:

 

>new users may upvote posts of mods and spriters because they're an authority; even if they aren't right at a particular moment

>even if someone's post is GREAT, it might not get any upvotes, therefore the person who made a worthy post might feel upset about it (they worked hard on arguments and got nothing)

>verbal response is always better than mindless clicking d:

 

Oh, yay, Fuzz ninja'd me with similar arguments, I'm glad we agree x3

[xeyla]

I do not approve, because it has the very real potential to be nothing but one big popularity plug.

I am torn between Yay and Nay.

 

Pros: Less non-conductive posts in discussion/suggestion threads. Members can see how many people have clicked the "like" button, and acknowledge their post being agreed with. This is something I've wanted for a while now to help show my support of suggestions.

 

Cons: People can become "Like" hogs, which is what happens on facebook and any other social system that has Like and Dislike buttons. I'm afraid of instead of it being a "Like" button, it will be referred to as the "Drama" button. We all know these forums have drama.

[DarkEternity]

Pro:

- Mini poll on whether or not something an opinion is favourable in the wider community

- Helps highlight constructive posts especially if people are making a post in the news thread which are informative and useful to read - especially if people keep asking the same question

- If it is anonymous, shy individuals might be more likely to passively contribute their view via the button

- Especially in threads containing artistic endeavours, a like button could reduce the incidence of praise, especially along the lines of - 'This is awesome!', 'I'd love to see this in game!' Alternately, it would allow people to express support/like for entries in DR whilst staying within the rules

- Could help keep threads clean and keep threads along the lines of actual discussion rather than agreement.

- Like/Unlike features also tends to be reversible whilst a poll doesn't tend to allow individuals to retract votes. (Moreover, the moderators would not have to constantly refresh polls because a person could simply make a new post and the perceived opinion of that could be made immediately relevant. ) Popularity may be an issue in some forums, but in other forums lack of popularity is an issue. Especially in DR when people can spend days attempting to garner poll feedback. Feedback on posts via like may be instrumental towards encouraging participation.

- I think it's a nice gesture, if the feelings behind it are genuine, to give thanks if a post is interesting, insightful or creative.

 

Cons:

>new users may upvote posts of mods and spriters because they're an authority; even if they aren't right at a particular moment 

>even if someone's post is GREAT, it might not get any upvotes, therefore the person who made a worthy post might feel upset about it (they worked hard on arguments and got nothing)

>verbal response is always better than mindless clicking d:

- People make posts purely to hoard likes rather than putting actual thought into posts

- People make posts which do not support their personal views because they are interested only in obtaining popular support

- Small sample size may misrepresent community views

- An increase in the creation of Sock-Puppets/bots (sorry Socky) to skew the perceived 'goodness' of a view

- Getting downvoted/upvoted to oblivion may reduce individual perceptions of the validity of the view (Reddit, anyone?)

- Forum software

 

My overall view

- I think it should be consensual - OPT IN ONLY AKA person should have the ability to hide like counts at will

- Some forums lend themselves more to the function, for example the DR, Original Works, Books, Visual Media, Music, Breeding, BSA actions etc.

- Some of the forums more prone to antagonism are probably less suited towards a like function. e.g. Trades (well it's kind of pointless we're trading!), Suggestions (we want to try and avoid skewing especially when it gets contentious), News (the potential for drama on two annual occasions)

Edited May 5, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Lythiaren]

>verbal response is always better than mindless clicking d:

Given that verbal affirmation while having nothing new to add typically leads to a warn, I don't think this one is applicable to the DC forums unless that policy has changed.

[DarkEternity]

Given that verbal affirmation while having nothing new to add typically leads to a warn, I don't think this one is applicable to the DC forums unless that policy has changed.

I got warned for the exact offence (expressing the fact that I liked something) when I was a newbie in 2010 so clearly a Like function would be useful in that scenario.

 

Smarter people than me would have likely avoided commenting regardless of whether or not they supported something because clearly something as small as expressing like/preference is not worth a 10% warning for. And since there is no other way to express like or support you might never be able to know whether or not people actually would have been willing to indicate their support because it constitutes an infraction of the rules serious enough to warrant some measure of punishment.

Edited May 5, 2014 by DarkEternity

[whitebaron]

Fully against this. Reasons have been mentioned far too many, my main problem is the popularity one.

 

I am on another system that recently added "stars" for the quality of the game you played with another person. Some people who are known for their forums-behavior, have been downvoted over a 1000 times without ever getting online to play.

 

While I myself ended up with 5 votes (3 up and 2 down) before I even logged in (lucky me), people used that system to live out their animosities - anonymously. And that I totally can't stand.

[Fuzzbucket]

Given that verbal affirmation while having nothing new to add typically leads to a warn, I don't think this one is applicable to the DC forums unless that policy has changed.

Verbal affirmation by PM doesn't - and means more; it shows the person cared enough to PM rather than just click.

 

I got warned for the exact offence (expressing the fact that I liked something) when I was a newbie in 2010 so clearly a Like function would be useful in that scenario.

 

Smarter people than me would have likely avoided commenting regardless of whether or not they supported something because clearly something as small as expressing like/preference is not worth a 10% warning for. And since there is no other way to express like or support you might never be able to know whether or not people actually would have been willing to indicate their support because it constitutes an infraction of the rules serious enough to warrant some measure of punishment.

You can easily express support by saying a bit more - and making it more USEFUL as a like - by saying something about what you like.

 

"Awesome sprite - I do like its threatening eyes" would cop no warn.

 

"YAAAS do want" would.

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Marrionetta]

I'd like to clarify, this would in no way change the order in which posts are displayed. It would simply be like a small notification of affirmation. :> I don't even think it's important to have the number of +1s a post gets be publicly displayed. Mostly it'd just be a quick way to communicate to a forum member 'good post!'

 

I don't think that a popularity contest would arise, because other than a nod of agreement, it doesn't actually amount to a whole lot????

 

Verbal affirmation by PM doesn't - and means more; it shows the person cared enough to PM rather than just click.

Sometimes there's tons of posts I wish I could say 'good job' to though, and I simply lack the time. This would be a quicker option than sending a full fledged PM. Maybe it wouldn't mean a whole lot to you personally, but I think it'd be swell to get the occasional 'like' notice.

 

I'm challenging you guys to think positively!. :>

Edited May 5, 2014 by Marrionetta

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd like to clarify, this would in no way change the order in which posts are displayed.  It would simply be like a small notification of affirmation.  :>  I don't even think it's important to have the number of +1s a post gets be publicly displayed.  Mostly it'd just be a quick way to communicate to a forum member 'good post!'

 

I don't think that a popularity contest would arise, because other than a nod of agreement, it doesn't actually amount to a whole lot????

 

 

Sometimes there's tons of posts I wish I could say 'good job' to though, and I simply lack the time.  This would be a quicker option than sending a full fledged PM.  Maybe it wouldn't mean a whole lot to you personally, but I think it'd be swell to get the occasional 'like' notice.

 

I'm challenging you guys to think positively!.  :>

Autoclicking. Getting your mates to "like". That sort of thing ? There are LOADS of people who would click "good post" for anything their friends posted. Whatever it was. (see under Facebook...)

 

I am thinking positively. I would positively hate this. Just as I hated polls, where people would click and not actually read what they were voting on. I love your posts; I seek them out - and they are beautifully written. I accept your passion on this.

 

But honestly HONESTLY a clicked button would mean NOTHING to me. It could even have been an accident (I recall Socky posting one day that she had accidentally voted on a poll - and the wrong way, at that !)

 

HEY OK - just had a positive thought for you.

 

If the chocolate cookie went to the member's PM box or something private (like warns do, but in reverse) and did NOT appear in public AT ALL - like warns don't - then there'd be no incentive to try and bump up the likes that others could see, to make your mates look important - so it might mean something. THAT would be OK in my book.

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Marrionetta]

There are LOADS of people who would click "good post" for anything their friends posted. Whatever it was.

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bad feature because someone might use it to like things you personally would not feel merit a like?

 

Man, you were one of the ones I was so proud of today in the frills thread. I even quoted you on skype to Lythiaren. I just wanted to +1 your little face, but I felt like I'd just be spamming up the thread everytime I was pleased with the quality of the discourse.

[whitebaron]

I'm challenging you guys to think positively!. :>

And I'm challenging you to be a lit more pessimistic. You know the drama that can happen when some people dislike other people. Get them to dislike the post, or just like the reply, or... the examples are countless.

 

There's many way to pressure people. Like/Dislike is one of them. There actually are people, who get PAID to like/dislike and post in newspaper's forums in order to color the comments in a certain way, or make you more likely to vote for a certain party. While this does not directly apply for DC, they always have like 50 likes instantly.

[Pixxelation]

I have seen this feature implemented on other forums, and have never seen it be abused as people are claiming. However, if people are so concerned about it, maybe it should only be allowed in certain forums, such as the Suggestion/Requests Forum and General Discussion (sub forum, not the entire GD forum)? These areas would allow thank you clicks to be used in a productive manner, and somewhat inhibit abuse. Honestly, I feel like some people on DC are just change-aversive by default, and value the smallest of drawbacks over all the positive aspects of something.

Edited May 5, 2014 by PieMaster

[Fuzzbucket]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bad feature because someone might use it to like things you personally would not feel merit a like?

 

Man, you were one of the ones I was so proud of today in the frills thread.  I even quoted you on skype to Lythiaren.  I just wanted to +1 your little face, but I felt like I'd just be spamming up the thread everytime I was pleased with the quality of the discourse. 

No no no - just that on FACEBOOK, people click without even looking, just because it was a friend who posted. See my post about the suicide incident. None of them had even THOUGHT about what they were clicking.

 

Many of those who "liked" the nasty comments about me on FB (which I thought were hugely funny as they were so wrong, but if I had been a sensitive type they might really have hurt) had not even read what they were liking, and apologised when I asked why they had "liked" it; given that as they knew me (two of them IRL !) they must have known it was wrong. Rude remarks just to be nasty would have been one thing, but factually incorrect comments, marked as "like" by people who know you personally just shows how unthinking these likes can be. THAT is the kind of "threat" I would see here.

 

Thanks for that about the frills thread. I'd have loved a cookie from you - but how would I have known it was from you ? By the warn style cookie I just suggested, I would have seen who thought well of my posts - and that WOULD have rated. 76 anonymous markers counted on a thread wouldn't.

 

If you see what I mean ?

 

Edited because I SO can't type

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[DarkEternity]

You can easily express support by saying a bit more - and making it more USEFUL as a like - by saying something about what you like.

 

"Awesome sprite - I do like its threatening eyes" would cop no warn.

 

"YAAAS do want" would.

(I am aware of that now, though I certainly did not know that back then! )

 

I don't even think it's important to have the number of +1s a post gets be publicly displayed.

That is an interesting concept

 

Verbal affirmation by PM doesn't - and means more; it shows the person cared enough to PM rather than just click.

Hm. I think the issue with this is that whilst I do occasionally do this by PM, I think it is something I try to avoid.

 

The reason is this:

- Affirming via PM can have connotations attached. Sometimes I think that the best thankyou is one done anonymously without a name attached. Sometimes messages can be seen as maybe too flattering, or maybe have some other intention? Perhaps I always overthink these things, but I see an anonymous system of expressing thanks or gratitude to be the purest sentiment because no one will know who you are

 

Differences between DC and facebook

- Accounts need to get approved before taking action. Depending on the way things are 'liked' it's NOT GOING TO BE EASY to make a butt load of accounts especially for voting (Sock-puppet accounts, again, sorry Sock D: ) But then it might still happen...

- On Facebook there is no mod action if you simply say you like something. So there is an alternative to just clicking the like button in that sense.

 

But we'd still need an eye on vote trading and things. And like I said, it's good for certain forums but other forums it's pointless.

 

(and plus there's pressure in conforming to community expectations - Reddit is probably the most stressful thing I've ever had the misfortune of knowing and let's just say that while I haven't been on the receiving end of 20 000 people deciding that it's a good idea to publicise everything bad about individual X, it does happen quite a lot and with a lot of likes. Unless the likes are hidden and only seen by the user o___O It is a quite interesting suggestion)

Edited May 5, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't even think it's important to have the number of +1s a post gets be publicly displayed.

 

That is an interesting concept

That was what I suggested with my "warn style" cookies You'd know you got one, and you feel good about yourself - but others don't need to see it.

 

ETA why on EARTH would anyone want to say "good post" and mind if you know who said it ? I'd want to know; I don't think I'd take anon cookies too seriously. As I said - I am still basking in Marri thinking well of a post of mine. That REALLY rates . But if I hadn't known who thought that, it wouldn't have meant half as much.

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[KageSora]

Provided it was an invisible counter--maybe visible only to mods/TJ in addition to the person who made the post (with a little notification that you have a +1), I'd be okay with that.

 

That way it can't possibly become a "popularity" thing, and if somebody is "+1ing" it just because a certain person posted it, there's no chance for people to be publicly upset by that visible declaration of support--possibly support that's done purely for popularity reasons, possibly done without thinking. It'd just be a quick, easy way to go "Hey, I support your post!"

 

 

I think it would be useful to be able to SEE that, yeah, but... I've seen the abuse of such features happen all too often on Facebook and Tumblr, so while it would be great to be able to show how many people agree with or like a post, the potential for abuse--that can and does not just regularly but frequently happen with similar features elsewhere make it being public seem too risky.

 

But, like I said, a private thing that's not visible to everybody would be able to accomplish the idea of "Hey, you made a good post here!" without the need to risk getting warned for spam for posting about it, and saving time if there's a number of posts/people you'd want to support--such as in a topic that very quickly gained a large number of posts, which could make it very time-consuming to write a personalized message to each person regarding each post. (Which, if you prefer, you could still totally do--but if you're pressed for time it could be a nice way to quickly show support).

 

 

 

Edit: I like the idea of a warn-style thing. You have your little counter, it maybe links to what post got the +1 or something like how a warn will explain what you got warned for. Keeping it anon is good, too--that encourages the idea of doing it purely because you like it/agree with it/etc. rather than for social brownie points by flattering the person. If you wanted to add a little message because you really felt like it, you could always still just PM them.

Edited May 5, 2014 by KageSora

[Fuzzbucket]

Keeping it anon is good, too--that encourages the idea of doing it purely because you like it/agree with it/etc. rather than for social brownie points by flattering the person.  If you wanted to add a little message because you really felt like it, you could always still just PM them.

I'd like to know. See above. For me - to be honest - cookies from some people would mean a lot more than from others.

 

Maybe you could choose whether the one you send is anon or not ?

 

Edited again for the usual reason

Edited May 5, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[KageSora]

I like being able to pick if it's anon or not, though I'd personally prefer anon if it weren't possible to implement a "send anon or send with name" option.

[Wahya]

I think that'd be great! I'd definitely use it

[cyradis4]

What's the point of being able to like something and others not seeing it?

 

Seriously, I think you guys are blowing it all out of proportion. I've been on many news sites, both common news and specific to my interests, that have + / - on posts, and I've never seen it abused. (Granted, there is this one troll on one that gets a lot of -s, but then, he's a troll so what do you expect?). And I don't go on Facebook or other social media, but I can see how Facebook lends itself to such abuse.

 

Now, I do feel that if it were possible to just put the "likes" in the Suggestions forum, that'd be a good thing. In the Frill thread, a post of mine had at least a half dozen people quoting it, saying "I like!" "My favorite of all posted!" and similar. I'm sure there were more who liked it but were afraid to post.

 

Frankly? I think the rule that in Suggestions, you can't post that you like something is absurd, stupid, and counter-productive. How else are you to know what the community likes, if you don't let people post a simple affirmation without giving a warn? Why should people have to add something "extra" to make a post "constructive", when the mere fact that they are posting is, in and of itself, constructive? I say that, because when they post, they post an opinion, no matter how brief. That's exactly what "I like" is! Its the person's opinion, and is therefore something constructive to the topic (they are saying that someone likes it).

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

What's the point of being able to like something and others not seeing it?

 

Because 10000 "likes" from just anyone, because they like YOU (generic) and you have no idea if they even read your post mean nothing.

 

Why do people need it to be seen - to boast ? To show off how great they are ? That is EXACTLY why I would like it to be private.

 

As to the affirming without comment being not OK in suggestions - basically, because threads get so long and unreadable if they are full of "YAAS do wants". When the mods started enforcing that, it was explained - somewhere. There was one thread which had about one post that SAID anything other than Yes or no to a page, and you had to go to that "print thread" option to actually see any discussion of the idea.