2014-04-15 - A Notice Regarding Staff

[MedievalMystic]

I am in no way dismissing the offence - it was shocking - but I can't see the point trying to get everything out into the light in threads.

 

No offense, Fuzz, but with comments like this from the user base..not just you.., it's also fanning the flames. I mean, look at all these oh so descriptive comments...

 

And what privacy? I had no clue some shocking incident even went down by TJ's post, but I damn sure do know now based on user posts. You've got people in here asking to be PM'd to find out all the gory details and they are being PMd on request from those eager to dish about it. And this is privacy?

 

TJ, sorry, but you dropped the ball here, too, imo, all things considered. Glad you're willing to take these things seriously, whatever the offense was and handle them, but this has now turned into a public discussion about something that should have stayed on the down low between those involved, not the whole damn cave. All your post did was drag that little drama, whatever it was, into the spotlight and now people are talking about it in public and it's turned into a little circus. This whole mess, people discussing this situation in the open, people wanting to be PM'd with all the gory details, shouldn't have been allowed.

 

 

I applaud to TJ about keeping the entire thing where it should be, behind the curtains, away from the audience.

 

But it's not. TJ doesn't get applause from me for this post. Sorry, TJ. This thread should have been locked right after the public started talking about their personal views on it.

 

 

Could someone please PM me, to say what happened?

 

My point.

Edited April 17, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Naruhina_94]

Well I've the gist of what went down.

 

I'm a bit surprised at how extreme it was and I understand why certain individuals are demanding a public apology. I do agree that it's bigger than a personal issue, and that a personal private apology doesn't cover the magnitude of what was said. However, I still stand by what I and several other people have said before: that a forced apology is worthless by definition. It would be nice if that person sees the error of her thoughts, but it's pointless to force her to make an insincere statement.

 

To the people who are telling others to grow up because they are demanding an apology; what you are doing is not defending someone's privacy but attacking someone else's decisions, primarily with assumptions, which actually makes you the immature one.

 

Let TJ decide what to do; the person in question has the freedom to think whatever she wants, ignorant as those thoughts may be, but the site ultimately belongs to TJ, and he gets to decide if he wants his site associated with that kind of ignorance. In terms of an 'apology,' I rather have none than an insincere one.

Agree with this.

Maybe I've lost something, but I would like to know WHAT happened. I don't want to know WHO did it, I'm sure that there is a good reason behind this, first of all privacy.

I would like to know what happened and how badly this damaged the image of the game. That's all. I don't want that DC is under a bad light, anyway

[Fuzzbucket]

No offense, Fuzz, but with comments like this from the user base..not just you.., it's also fanning the flames.  I mean, look at all these oh so descriptive comments... 

 

And what privacy?  I had no clue some shocking incident even went down by TJ's post, but I damn sure do know now based on user posts.  You've got people in here asking to be PM'd to find out all the gory details and they are being PMd on request from those eager to dish about it.  And this is privacy?

MANY had already been asking for PM details long before I posted that. People have been asking to be told what and where all down the thread - someone even PMd a MOD to ask.

 

What exactly is so descriptive in my post ? Everyone knew by now that someone made offensive remarks somewhere.

 

No offence taken. But TJ had to say something in public. He really had no choice. I do wish, though, that he had just said it, in an insta-locked thread.

Edited April 17, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[MedievalMystic]

Maybe I've lost something, but I would like to know WHAT happened. I don't want to know WHO did it, I'm sure that there is a good reason behind this, first of all privacy.

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

 

 

Privacy seems to have taken on new meaning around here.

 

 

 

And don't worry. You won't miss out. Someone will be PMing you shortly.

 

 

[MedievalMystic]

MANY had already been asking for PM details long before I posted that. People have been asking to be told what and where all down the thread - someone even PMd a MOD to ask.

 

Well, damn, Fuzz, if a 100,000 people do a stupid thing I guess that makes it just peachy. My bad.

 

Mods need to keep their mouths shut. Period.

[Kira-san]

No clue what happened, but no need to know. What's past is past, and I think it was good of you to keep details private, too. Thanks for this, TJ! ^u^/

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, damn, Fuzz, if a 100,000 people do a stupid thing I guess that makes it just peachy. My bad.

I know. Just - well, it's hard to be singled out as if my post started them all *sob*

[sroo]

MedievalMystic: You have said exactly what I've been thinking. THanks for writing it for me

[Thuban]

I know that I have a tendency to rub people the wrong way, especially in a forum setting. I do much, much better in small groups on chat, or in pms. I know that there are users and staff alike out there who I have upset, or offended over the years.

 

If I do, or have done something to upset people, I would appreciate a heads up, be it directly (chat, offsite, whatever), in pm, or through another mod. More often than not, the heads up does help me out with being able to interact a bit more easily with other people. I do appreciate the chance to discuss what happened to upset (the person), and if needed, to explain /why/ my end of things happened.

___________________________________________________________

In regards to this post specifically: While I agree with the users who have mentioned that this post should have been locked (to prevent the "oh what happened, can someone pm me" posts) at the same time, its a bit nice to be able to get a feel for how you guys feel about such a public statement. There are other things I would eventually like to see a clearer stance on, but, would prefer to have some kind of a post-mod thing in effect so that only legitimate questions and comments can show up... to prevent the topic from derailing from the point at hand. Somehow, I don't think this forum is set up for something like that though.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

While I agree with the users who have mentioned that this post should have been locked (to prevent the "oh what happened, can someone pm me" posts) at the same time, its a bit nice to be able to get a feel for how you guys feel about such a public statement. There are other things I would eventually like to see a clearer stance on, but, would prefer to have some kind of a post-mod thing in effect so that only legitimate questions and comments can show up... to prevent the topic from derailing from the point at hand. Somehow, I don't think this forum is set up for something like that though.

Actually - I would think it could handle a thread where all posts have to be approved before appearing... If invision can't, I bet TJ could.

[Nakase]

Thanks TJ for making the announcment. It needed to be said.

 

For those who are asking to be told what happened, please reread TJ's post. By asking for information you are going against the rules as he stated: it should remain private. This should also be a concern to those who are sending the information, and you should really stop spreading it.

[MedievalMystic]

I know. Just - well, it's hard to be singled out as if my post started them all *sob*

 

lol I am sorry, I didn't intend to signal you out at all. My blood was starting to do a slow simmer long before I got to your post. You just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and your comment was the one I happened to see right about the time I really got sick of the going down in this thread. This thread makes a freaking mockery out of something that we all cherish, and that's privacy.

 

Had I been the one involved in this, had I blundered badly, embarrassingly, horrifically, in the heat of some crazy moment and forgot myself and said something very offensive and this ensued, I'd have TJ's head on a platter. I don't know what's up, but bet whoever that person was that said whatever it was they said, they're feeling like a dumbass now. I'm sure they're probably spending a lot of time kicking their own ass already. Maybe they deserved punishment, but not like this. This is almost like a public stoning.

 

This whole thread amounts to public humiliation and I'm not down with it. Bet your sweet ass everyone and their brother knows every last user involved and the fact that it was allowed to go down this way leaves a bad taste.

 

 

[dothefreddy]

Through some sleuthing I was able to figure out and see what happened. It's a very fine line that TJ must walk here and I'm of two minds about it. One is how it was handled in this post. And the other? A bit more of a public shaming. Because what was said? Was horrid. It doesn't matter if it was a personal opinion, it was offensive as crap. And that type of behavior, whether on or off site, does affect the user base whether intentional or not.

 

Whether TJ likes it or not, this site has a reputation for drama mongering and other things. I know many people off site refuse to use the forums because of the drama here. Stuff like this? It further validates their point.

 

That's all I have to say.

[Pixxelation]

Had I been the one involved in this, had I blundered badly, embarrassingly, horrifically, in the heat of some crazy moment and forgot myself and said something very offensive and this ensued, I'd have TJ's head on a platter. I don't know what's up, but bet whoever that person was that said whatever it was they said, they're feeling like a dumbass now. I'm sure they're probably spending a lot of time kicking their own ass already. Maybe they deserved punishment, but not like this. This is almost like a public stoning.

 

This whole thread amounts to public humiliation and I'm not down with it. Bet your sweet ass everyone and their brother knows every last user involved and the fact that it was allowed to go down this way leaves a bad taste.

Amen. What was said was certainly not something that should have been said, but the user in question surely regrets what happened, especially considering it started on a different site and affected them there as well. Yes, I know what happened (and will not be sharing with people who ask, so please, no PMs about that), and I do fully agree with the way it was handled. I wish that the thread had been closed from the start now that it has been mentioned, but not much that can be done now.

[Hellen]

Dropping my two cents in here too because ...

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, what a person says or does is their own thing. Their Opionion.

 

 

Before you go off like a firework, as yourself a few questions.

 

 

 

Are they insulting you directly by speaking to you, to your color of skin/ethnic group/religion?

 

If YES => Do report their posts/PMs/mails to the authorities of the site.

 

If NOT => hell, ignore them.

 

 

Honestly, live and let die. I mean live and let live, or something like that.

 

 

There's a reason I don't make my Facebook/AIM/Twitter/Tumblr open.

Right because of that. Some people are finding stuff that they think would be good drama material, slaughtering it, putting it into a context that was never meant, and then go around like "well, but Sky's talking about something, so it must be DC related, and we can create drama!", even if I never talk about DC whatsoever in my tumblr or facebook, and I'm holding myself back with my personal opinions.

 

 

Sorry, guys, but it's still a matter of free opinion here.

 

 

Ya know?

 

the right of FREE SPEECH!

, like it or not.

 

 

(btw, if TJ finds that staff's not behaving properly, he's going to talk to them about it and find solutions. Puplic shaming and lynch-justice isn't really a thing to do, no matter what happened. We can still all talk to each other)

Edited April 17, 2014 by Hellen

[dothefreddy]

Amen. What was said was certainly not something that should have been said, but the user in question surely regrets what happened, especially considering it started on a different site and affected them there as well. Yes, I know what happened (and will not be sharing with people who ask, so please, no PMs about that), and I do fully agree with the way it was handled. I wish that the thread had been closed from the start now that it has been mentioned, but not much that can be done now.

They regret getting caught, nothing more. I can guarantee that if an apology was forced, it'd be just that: a forced non-apology.

 

As for the freedom of speech thing, this is a private site not a democracy. Free speech isn't a thing here no matter how much you think it is.

 

I guess I had more to say on the matter than I thought. :|

Edited April 17, 2014 by dothefreddy

[zyxw121]

 

the right of FREE SPEECH!

, like it or not.

Free speech really doesn't come into this.

A right to freedom of speech means the government can't restrict what you say. It doesn't mean people can't be angry when you say something offensive (whatever that may be).

[purplehaze]

I agree with those who say that TJ should have locked this post immediately after making his announcement. If administrative action was taken, there was no need to leave it open for discussion and fan everyone's natural curiosity.

 

Am I curious now? Of course. Do I really want to know what happened? No. Do I need to know? No.

[Hellen]

Free speech really doesn't come into this.

A right to freedom of speech means the government can't restrict what you say. It doesn't mean people can't be angry when you say something offensive (whatever that may be).

Oh people can be angry all they want, they still don't have a right to tell you to shut up if you speak your opinion on open sites, like facebook or whatever?

 

 

If it's against the rules of the site, report it there, and hope it gets taken down, then walk away and do whatever you do otherwise.

 

 

 

I am not a fan of matters being taken out of context (even when I type) and not a fan of being forced to overthink my words five times in a second, just because people that could easily close a site go after me just because they don't like my opinion.

 

 

If it happens on here, has been posted on here, has been done on here, it's TJ's right to do meassurements of punishment, up to banning a person.

 

If it wasn't on here, what's he supposed to do?

 

Wave the finger at the person and go all "You've been naughty!" ?

 

Should TJ supervise all of the staff's fb/twitter/whatthehellever accounts and glare us down if we write something that's not 'moraly' and 'politically' correct?

He can't do that.

Here on this site, there are his rules. Does it happen here, it will be dealt with here.

Does it happen elsewhere, it has to be dealt with there.

 

 

 

Open stoning, I read that. In my opinion, yes, this is one.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Hellen

[AshCola]

I also feel this thread should have been locked afterwards. What is private should be private.

 

At this point I feel like one of the fewer members who has no idea what has happened. All I know is that something major happened, and that is all I need to know.

[Rally Vincent]

In regards to this post specifically: While I agree with the users who have mentioned that this post should have been locked (to prevent the "oh what happened, can someone pm me" posts) at the same time, its a bit nice to be able to get a feel for how you guys feel about such a public statement. There are other things I would eventually like to see a clearer stance on, but, would prefer to have some kind of a post-mod thing in effect so that only legitimate questions and comments can show up... to prevent the topic from derailing from the point at hand. Somehow, I don't think this forum is set up for something like that though.

TJs post is - in my opinion - not he best option that available for him. Obviously he felt the need to inform the userbase to some degree, otherwise he wouldn't have made that post, but PM'd those whoe reported the incident. The way he did it, though, was non informative and could basically include any misbehavior - and any punishment (or none).

 

What are we - we the userbase - supposed to learn from this post? That "staff" have private opinions that are not DC's official point of view? Well, who would have known.

 

What it comes down to - if TJ wants the userbase to know a certain behavior of a "staff member" is not representing DC, at least paraphrase what behavior it was, otherwise the next person who encounters it will have no idea. That can be done without giving names and/or places. But a vague post like that serves no real purpose, I think, other than as reminder that "staff" can be reported, but the one reporting it will never know if his report had any consequences (read: if the reported behavior was okay and just misperceived as wrong, or if it was indeed a misbehavior).

 

TJ's post is just like Tofu. It has no taste of its own. Tofu only adopts the taste of other things, and that's why other members are now looking for sides.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Rally Vincent

[Sinsdaemn]

If it wasn't on here, what's he supposed to do?

Actually there is a precedence for this, when some years before someone on staff spoke about DC things offsite. They were held accountable to it on here. So why shouldn't it apply also in this situation? The line was drawn then.

 

The very first rule in DC is to respect others. When a staff member expresses harmful and degrading sentiments against a number of the population of the site then really there should be some measure taken to remove them from that position of power. How can this be a safe place if there is someone on board who inherently views the people they oversee as inferior?

[Mondat]

This whole thread amounts to public humiliation and I'm not down with it.   Bet your sweet ass everyone and their brother knows every last user involved and the fact that it was allowed to go down this way leaves a bad taste.

I have to agree that at some point after I posted I felt that some "I won't tell what exactly happened but I'll let you know what I think the person deserves" comments regarding what happened were/are somewhat...unnecessary. I do not think this thread should stay open much longer anymore.

 

Maybe it is just me, but I can & do distinguish between "private" (what TJ, mods etc. do or say outside of DC) and "business" (what they do for and in DC).

 

I have my scroll and I collect my dragons.

Unless someone did something to me before which I didn't like (not replying to PM's, lying, etc.) I'll continue trading for dragons I am interested in.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Mondat

[Fuzzbucket]

Is it OK to beg for this thread to be closed, and redacted to leave only the initial post ?

[Thuban]

Rally:

 

It really comes down to this: If a staff member says or does something offensive or whatever, then report it to tj. If it happens offsite, dont make a public post about it here, but if the need is still there for you to point it out, PLEASE feel free to report it to him, or any mod you are actually comfortable talking to. It helps to have a heads up on things, before they get a chance to blow up /here/ (forum or chat).

 

He's declaring that reports will be looked into, even if whatever is going on, wont necessarily be made "public", or what happens after.

_______________________________________________

 

I look into each and every thing reported to me, be it harrassment, rudeness, possible cheating.. whether the evidence is coming from onsite "official" areas, or things happening offsite (other websites, like facebook and tumblr). I don't give out any information on what I find, in the public areas, or to the people reporting to me, but that doesnt mean that things arent being looked into. Regardless of whats being reported, I dont feel its right to pass any judgement on the user being reported, even if the evidence is there. I dont believe its right to /share/ that information with anyone who isnt directly involved, and even then I still tend to stay intentionally vague between the users in question.

 

If something I've personally done is brought to my attention, I am more than happy to discuss what happened, explain myself and hear the user out. Its a great learning experience, even if its not always the most pleasant experience.