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TJ09

2014-04-15 - A Notice Regarding Staff

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I don't need to know what happened. I am glad, though, TJ keeps a consistent rule on what to bring out in the open and what not and with that respects the privacy from all concerned, both of the ones who complained and the one(s) who was complained about.

 

Thank you TJ!

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I RP on a couple of chat sites and,like this one,they have a PM system set up and the site owners/admin have stated CLEARLY that,should there be a rather Confrontational Situation,to take it to PMs as to not involve EVERYONE ELSE playing in room in question,as well as to PM either the owners or admin since one or all are consistently monitoring said sites.Which,IMPO,is one of the smartest ways to go about handling things.*nodnod*

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I am very much in favour of it being like warns. We are told in no uncertain terms that we have been bad - but no-one else knows. Public naming and shaming just inflames stuff. I have no idea what happened - but I am sure that the admins in general took care of it and while I am terminally nosy, I do NOT think it is OK to PM a mod to ask. If it isn't against the rules to do that, it should be. It is no-one else's business. If some of the aggrieved people - whoever they are - aren't satisfied, they can PM TJ and explain why not - but for the rest of us - no stickybeaks please.

 

How would we all feel if we'd - say - had a really bad day and lashed out and everyone was told JUST what we had said and what our punishment was to be... ? or if someone had stepped on a REALLY touchy area for us ? Lord, if anyone told all of you what I said to my mother the other day in the heat of the moment - even if she did ask for it... It is no-one's business but hers and mine- or if it had been said in public, of whoever had to deal with the fall out.

 

It's over, let it lie, no ?

Edited by fuzzbucket

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No idea what happened, but major kudos to TJ for hanging in there as this site's head for so long and dealing with all of the problems that come with the territory. The site is great, the staff is great, and it's shown by a great leader. For that, I'm thankful. smile.gif

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As nosy as we DCers can be, myself included; I have to admit that this is probably the best policy.

 

I mean, it really isn't our business as curious as some of us might be... and it is probably for the best that any drama isn't aired abroad for all and sundry. As others have pointed out, that is how warns work, to my knowledge. WE know we have been warned but not the entire DC community. Probably this should be the same.

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This is the most professional approach I have seen to such a situation on any pet site. Thanks for handling it so well, and for listening to the concerns of players who brought it to your attention.

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~Removed~ reasons were already stated as to why this is not to be made public.

 

Very professional, though, and not at all drama-y. Good on you, TJ.

 

~Feathers

Edited by _Z_

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~Removed~

Seconding this, I am dying to know, LOL

 

Other than that, this is probably the best post you've ever written, TJ.

Edited by _Z_

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I think it would be a real shame if anyone judged an entire site on the actions or opinions of a single individual, so I really hope that's something that's not happening. DC is a site that brings people from all different backgrounds and cultures together and there is invariably going to be conflict and heads butting now and then. It's good to know we've got a an admin who's willing to listen to everyone's opinion and do what he can to make sure the site is safe and friendly for everyone who uses it. smile.gif

 

Even if someone is in the wrong, thanks for respecting their privacy anyway, TJ. Huge support for that.

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I didn't see what happened but I'm glad it got taken cared of and I'm glad I didn't see the drama. TJ handled this very professionally.

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Somewhat glad I don't know what brought that on.... but a wonderfully well written and thought out response TJ.

 

Thank you for clearing that up and making it clear what steps to follow.

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Though I have no idea what this is about, I'm still glad you cleared things up, TJ biggrin.gif

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I just caught the news change and, while unhappy that it appears this needed to be stated explicitly, am glad that it was done so concisely.

Thanks for the update. smile.gif

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I don't think the issue should be made public, but the staffer in question should no longer be given those benefits. I do acknowledge anonymity and efforts to keep it from causing more drama, but if a person is grossly negligent in being.... well, a decent human being and abusing staff power, they should have that removed.

 

If they're staff, remove them from staff. If they're a spriter, keep the dragons they sprited that are in-cave, but remove the ones in progress they're working on, ban them from making any more, and boot them from the special spriter forum. They should get more of a punishment than a slap on the wrist, if they can't treat others nicely, they shouldn't be in a 'leadership' position.

 

The point was brought up, after all, that people of authority in our forums could very well represent the views of dragcave offsite. And from what I know of it, it was offsite and then brought here. I don't know too much about it, but do you really want that kind of issue to be what people outside of dragcave think about when they hear about us? That's extremely bad PR, and if a good majority of the fanbase DID find out what happened, they might quit DC too. Lines have been crossed, and the person who crossed those lines should definitely not keep enjoying the benefits of a high position in dragcave.

 

(Don't ask me, I won't tell even if you begged)

 

By all means, keep it private, but please do give out a punishment. The playerbase can't have someone with any kind of authority who does something like this.

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I'm behind TJ on not airing out the dirty laundry on DC, especially considering the public apology bit. Usually those tend to cause bitter feeling in the one apologizing and the other one tends to wonder about the sincerity behind it. As for the punishments, I would rather have those not addressed because there will always be debate on whether such things were harsher or easy in relation to the incident.

 

Nice to know that DC is still 'human'. I always wondered because DC doesn't seem to deal with the drama I've seen in other sites. Or rather, not to the same degree of posturing.

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I don't think the issue should be made public, but the staffer in question should no longer be given those benefits. I do acknowledge anonymity and efforts to keep it from causing more drama, but if a person is grossly negligent in being.... well, a decent human being and abusing staff power, they should have that removed.

 

If they're staff, remove them from staff. If they're a spriter, keep the dragons they sprited that are in-cave, but remove the ones in progress they're working on, ban them from making any more, and boot them from the special spriter forum. They should get more of a punishment than a slap on the wrist, if they can't treat others nicely, they shouldn't be in a 'leadership' position.

 

The point was brought up, after all, that people of authority in our forums could very well represent the views of dragcave offsite. And from what I know of it, it was offsite and then brought here. I don't know too much about it, but do you really want that kind of issue to be what people outside of dragcave think about when they hear about us? That's extremely bad PR, and if a good majority of the fanbase DID find out what happened, they might quit DC too. Lines have been crossed, and the person who crossed those lines should definitely not keep enjoying the benefits of a high position in dragcave.

 

(Don't ask me, I won't tell even if you begged)

 

By all means, keep it private, but please do give out a punishment. The playerbase can't have someone with any kind of authority who does something like this.

If the staff treated someone poorly offsite it shouldn't matter. I personally don't care what someone is doing privately on their own time (unless it's something that is directly affecting who they work for, like defamation of the company, embezzlement, etc). If they did onsite then I can understand some form of punishment. Because then they aren't doing their job.

 

But from the sounds of it, it was only a certain opinion they had, which is theirs. They shouldn't be punished because they hold a certain opinion...

 

Also doesn't booting them off of staff no longer mean it's private? That's very much a public display of punishment. It might not be a post pointing a finger directly at them and saying "This person did a bad thing!", but it's still VERY much so public.

 

Besides, personally I'm all for "X strikes, you're out!" vs "You mess up once and you're gone" unless it's something SO severe that it requires immediate removal.

Edited by edwardelricfreak

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Besides, personally I'm all for "X strikes, you're out!" vs "You mess up once and you're gone" unless it's something SO severe that it requires immediate removal.

What contexts to severe?

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What contexts to severe?

That... would be up to the discretion of TJ and the other staffers, I am thinking. Them and POSSIBLY the person who was wronged, though that might depend on the situation.

Edited by Silverswift

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Also doesn't booting them off of staff no longer mean it's private? That's very much a public display of punishment. It might not be a post pointing a finger directly at them and saying "This person did a bad thing!", but it's still VERY much so public.

Removing somebody from staff is as public of a punishment as banning somebody. Yes, it is observable by all users. But is a big huge post made about it detailing what happened? Almost never, and in the times that it is done it is for the most extreme of cases where the person in question is a genuinely dangerous individual (as in somebody actively endangering or severely damaging the lives of others). You might be able to see that somebody seems to no longer be a staff member, or that a user you saw posting around a lot is suddenly banned... but that doesn't mean you know the reason why that is. And you usually don't find out either unless you find somebody who knows about the situation and is okay with talking about it in private, or the people involved are discussing the matter on a different site. It's very possible to quietly demote or ban somebody, but the success of it staying quiet depends on the individual situation.

 

So yes, while demoting or banning somebody is a form of punishment that can be observed readily it really is not a completely public form of punishment if you ask me. The details behind the punishment itself are still kept private. Applying the punishment and actually talking about it openly are two completely different things. I guess I don't understand your concern over the whole demotion as a punishment being too public thing because the way I see it, it makes me think... then what do you do as punishment for extreme cases?

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Removing somebody from staff is as public of a punishment as banning somebody. Yes, it is observable by all users. But is a big huge post made about it detailing what happened? Almost never, and in the times that it is done it is for the most extreme of cases where the person in question is a genuinely dangerous individual (as in somebody actively endangering or severely damaging the lives of others). You might be able to see that somebody seems to no longer be a staff member, or that a user you saw posting around a lot is suddenly banned... but that doesn't mean you know the reason why that is. And you usually don't find out either unless you find somebody who knows about the situation and is okay with talking about it in private, or the people involved are discussing the matter on a different site. It's very possible to quietly demote or ban somebody, but the success of it staying quiet depends on the individual situation.

 

So yes, while demoting or banning somebody is a form of punishment that can be observed readily it really is not a completely public form of punishment if you ask me. The details behind the punishment itself are still kept private. Applying the punishment and actually talking about it openly are two completely different things. I guess I don't understand your concern over the whole demotion as a punishment being too public thing because the way I see it, it makes me think... then what do you do as punishment for extreme cases?

I know, but wanting a completely private punishment would not include that because it is public. I already said that though it's not a big post about the situation, it's still public.

 

I DON'T have concern over it being "too public". What I was quoting just seemed contradictory. I would demote a mod if something were severe enough (depending on the situation), but otherwise I would just deal with it totally privately. Never would I ever publicly post the details.

 

Besides, I don't know what happened and personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me, so. :Y

Edited by edwardelricfreak

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This is a case where banning/demotion would be warranted, and that's all I'll say about that. I don't know if the offending individual was or not, mind, I just think it'd be warranted.

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Thank you for handling this so professionally, TJ. Especially considering what happened did not occur on site (if I understand correctly), I am glad to see you handling it this way. Props to you c:

Edited by PieMaster

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