Replace "breed" with "species"

[grimace]

Apologies for this, my biologist is showing.

 

Can this be a thing? As it is it makes no sense since the dragons on DC are absolutely not breeds.

I'll use wikipedias wording because I like it.

"A breed is a specific group of domestic animals or plants having homogeneous appearance, homogeneous behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals or plants of the same species and that were arrived at through selective breeding. "

 

DC dragons are obviously not from selective breeding, and are absolutely different species. You don't get "breeds" of an animal with such huge differences. I mean we are defining a group that is so varied as one species.

You don't get members of the same species with different features like "wings, no wings, fire, no fire, elemental powers,, tentacles, 6 limbs, four limbs, no limbs, gills, lungs" etc etc etc

 

Also before people say "but they cant be different species, they can breed together!", this isn't true. Plenty of animals of different species can breed together and produce fertile offspring. Mammals are the ones who generally cannot, and dragons aren't mammals.

 

(That, and hybridizing and genetics don't exist on dc, as breeding two species or breeds together doesn't produce ones identical to the parents anyway.)

 

tl;dr: talk abot rewording things so it makes sense.

 

Does this bug anyone else?

[DigitalGarden]

Yes, yes please ._. I never liked them being "breeds", for the exact same reason.

[xeyla]

I support. I never really thought about it before, but breed just doesn't fit here.

[AwesoMan30000]

Would the ones that can only be bred (like ultraviolets) still be changed, or would these be cross breeds or something?

[TheGrox]

This is kinda annoying, now you come to mention it. It should be changed.

[FortyTwo]

Yes please. This has been bothering me for years.

 

I suppose it was semi-fitting back when we only had 20 or 30 breeds, but now we have a lot more I think they should be classed as species in their own right.

[grimace]

Would the ones that can only be bred (like ultraviolets) still be changed, or would these be cross breeds or something?

Nah those would just be hybrids I guess.

Although none of the breed only species are how hybrids actually work, its probably the closest thing.

[HeatherMarie]

This has *always* bugged me, mostly because we have the "breed" function and all of that. We "breed" our different "breeds" of dragons together.... Yeah that's just not right. I'd *LOVE* to see species instead, but thinking about all that would have to be changed ("Breed" Specific Action would no longer be called that, etc etc) I wonder if enough people care for it to be messed with.

[Odeen]

Since DC doesn't actually follow any sort of genetic or real-world rules whatsoever (there's not even heredity, to be honest), this feels a little bit pedantic.

[edwardelricfreak]

Since DC doesn't actually follow any sort of genetic or real-world rules whatsoever (there's not even heredity, to be honest), this feels a little bit pedantic.

Gonna second this.

 

Yes, I agree it's not technically the proper term, but there's so much DC doesn't follow anyway (though somehow it tries to hold some believability), and there's kind of a bunch of places where the term would need to be changed, IIRC, specifically descriptions and BSAs.

 

I mean, I wouldn't mind if this goes through, but it seems like a nitpicky suggestion. It would probably just be included with other updates if TJ decides to fix it, but I'd prefer him focusing on other things that really need fixing/changing/implementing.

[Obscure_Trash]

It's never personally bothered me. I have no strong opinion one way or the other.

Edited April 11, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

This has *always* bugged me, mostly because we have the "breed" function and all of that. We "breed" our different "breeds" of dragons together.... Yeah that's just not right. I'd *LOVE* to see species instead, but thinking about all that would have to be changed ("Breed" Specific Action would no longer be called that, etc etc) I wonder if enough people care for it to be messed with.

Not this people. And I speak as a TERMINALLY annoying pedant !

 

One refers to "breeds" of dog, after all... A dog is a species of animal, and you have dog breeds like Labradors and dachshunds and so on...

Edited April 11, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[john30]

Now,you're talking about this...Yes!

[tjekan]

I dunno. It's clear that dragon breeds are far more different from each other than dog breeds, yes. But that's as easily attributable to the gameworld being magical and different as disparate dragon species being able to freely interbreed is. Though you're correct that cross-species breeding does happen in the real world, it's comparatively VERY rare. The idea that two animals with different numbers of limbs, teeth, and internal organs (such as a balloon dragon and a seragamma wyvern) would be able to produce offspring together as routinely as same-species pairs is just as fantastical regardless of whether we call them breeds or species. And the fact that we talk about engaging in breeding projects to breed them together into purebred lineages would seem to make calling them breeds the more consistent term.

[whitebaron]

Even though it is not scientifically correct, I like the term breed better, as to me, the game is mostly about breeding.

 

Also note that the term breed is not as precisely defined, as its nothing biologists actually use, so it can mean more or less than the wikipedia quote depending on,who you are talking,with.

[Guillotine]

Not this people. And I speak as a TERMINALLY annoying pedant !

 

One refers to "breeds" of dog, after all... A dog is a species of animal, and you have dog breeds like Labradors and dachshunds and so on...

Subspecies. Dogs are the same species as the grey wolf. Plus, canids are a special case; other domesticated animals like chickens and sheep have nowhere near the same variance seen in dog breeds. Pigeon breeds can come close at their most exaggerated, but it's only "close" compared to other domesticated animals.

 

I'd like to see it shift to species, but I doubt the shift will be made.

[grimace]

Not this people. And I speak as a TERMINALLY annoying pedant !

 

One refers to "breeds" of dog, after all... A dog is a species of animal, and you have dog breeds like Labradors and dachshunds and so on...

Not this people. And I speak as a TERMINALLY annoying pedant !

 

One refers to "breeds" of dog, after all... A dog is a species of animal, and you have dog breeds like Labradors and dachshunds and so on...

Well yeah, but all the dog breeds are almost identical when you get down to it. Sure they might be a little different sized, or different color, or have a smooshed in face or something, but its not like we have dogs that have armadillo shells while some other dogs are legless and then the rest of them have 6 legs.

 

You just don't get the level of differences such as extra limbs and armor and etc etc etc within a breed.

 

For example look how massive the difference is between like a hellfire, and a yulebuck and a water.

 

I mean for true accuracy it wouldnt make sense to have -any- of the dragons be able to interbreed without a complex system of a billion different hybrid sprites and etc but obviously that isn't a viable plan so this thing isn't about trying to make dc super scientifically accurate. More about changing one word that doesn't really mean anything as it is.

 

I can't actually imagine anyone getting upset it was reworded into species anyway.

[Likewise]

Pardon me for having a bug up my butt, but...

 

These are all the same species.

 

In all honesty, though, there are more important reason I have for not making this distinction on DC. One of them is that if you look at the morphology of DC dragons it is abundantly clear that many of them could be classed as different breeds of the same species. Reds and Royal Crimsons, for example. Sunrise/Sunset dragons also bear a striking resemblance to Striped dragons, including their ability to change their offspring's color based on certain conditions, so they could also be a single species. You would basically have to go to all the spriters and ask them what they thought about the taxonomical classification of their dragons, and would they mind sharing the same species and/or genus with Balloons?

 

The other is that there are no two species on earth with as many differences as we see between DCs dragons that can breed together. If you insist on going by Earth's biology, which it seems you do, then it would be literally impossible for, say, a Deep Sea dragon to breed with a Brute. Even if they were to somehow meet (dragon scuba gear?) the two species would be separated by hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Successful copulation would be physically and biologically impossible and most likely unwanted.

 

Oh, but what about artificial insemination, you say? Well, that would be missing the point. It would be like breeding a goblin shark with a mountain goat. And then the shark gives birth to a goat. The goat promptly drowns.

 

tl;dr: DC dragons obviously do not conform to Earth's biology, so to treat them as if they do is misguided. Also they are sprites.

 

 

I mean for true accuracy it wouldnt make sense to have -any- of the dragons be able to interbreed without a complex system of a billion different hybrid sprites and etc but obviously that isn't a viable plan so this thing isn't about trying to make dc super scientifically accurate. More about changing one word that doesn't really mean anything as it is.

 

PS - Really you'd just be replacing one meaningless word with another meaningless word, because neither "breed" nor "species" is accurate. DC dragons are too different to all be the same breed but interbreed too easily (and with completely nonsensical results) to be separate species. You might as well call them flerpity-floops. It would mean as much.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Likewise

[KageSora]

PS - Really you'd just be replacing one meaningless word with another meaningless word, because neither "breed" nor "species" is accurate. DC dragons are too different to all be the same breed but interbreed too easily (and with completely nonsensical results) to be separate species. You might as well call them flerpity-floops. It would mean as much.

I'm in favor of replacing "breed" with "flerpity-floops".

 

But in all seriousness, I agree with the overall sentiment. Neither word is properly accurate, I don't think, so it doesn't super matter which one we use, so changing it seems a little pointless.

[grimace]

Pardon me for having a bug up my butt, but...

 

These are all the same species.

 

In all honesty, though, there are more important reason I have for not making this distinction on DC. One of them is that if you look at the morphology of DC dragons it is abundantly clear that many of them could be classed as different breeds of the same species. Reds and Royal Crimsons, for example. Sunrise/Sunset dragons also bear a striking resemblance to Striped dragons, including their ability to change their offspring's color based on certain conditions, so they could also be a single species. You would basically have to go to all the spriters and ask them what they thought about the taxonomical classification of their dragons, and would they mind sharing the same species and/or genus with Balloons?

 

The other is that there are no two species on earth with as many differences as we see between DCs dragons that can breed together. If you insist on going by Earth's biology, which it seems you do, then it would be literally impossible for, say, a Deep Sea dragon to breed with a Brute. Even if they were to somehow meet (dragon scuba gear?) the two species would be separated by hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Successful copulation would be physically and biologically impossible and most likely unwanted.

 

Oh, but what about artificial insemination, you say? Well, that would be missing the point. It would be like breeding a goblin shark with a mountain goat. And then the shark gives birth to a goat. The goat promptly drowns.

 

tl;dr: DC dragons obviously do not conform to Earth's biology, so to treat them as if they do is misguided. Also they are sprites.

 

 

 

 

PS - Really you'd just be replacing one meaningless word with another meaningless word, because neither "breed" nor "species" is accurate. DC dragons are too different to all be the same breed but interbreed too easily (and with completely nonsensical results) to be separate species. You might as well call them flerpity-floops. It would mean as much.

Yes, dogs are all the same species, but they are all basically the same exact thing. They look different because they have different sizes and fur and stuff, but they're all still the same thing. You don't have breeds of dogs with prehensile tails or horns or something. If someone actually took the time to breed a dog that had a prehensile tail or something it'd likely be different enough you couldn't breed it back to the other dogs, and would be its own species.

If dogs were DC dragons you'd have like basset hounds, golden retrievers, shepherds, and then walruses, bats, armadillos and humpback whales all be breeds of dog.

[Likewise]

Yes, dogs are all the same species, but they are all basically the same exact thing. They look different because they have different sizes and fur and stuff, but they're all still the same thing. You don't have breeds of dogs with prehensile tails or horns or something. If someone actually took the time to breed a dog that had a prehensile tail or something it'd likely be different enough you couldn't breed it back to the other dogs, and would be its own species.

If dogs were DC dragons you'd have like basset hounds, golden retrievers, shepherds, and then walruses, bats, armadillos and humpback whales all be breeds of dog.

Please read my whole post or at least the tl;dr at the bottom. The variety we see within species was just one point of three.

[grimace]

Please read my whole post or at least the tl;dr at the bottom. The variety we see within species was just one point of three.

Well yes obviously DC dragons don't fit earths biology. That doesn't mean we should throw everything biological out the window though. DC does try to be biologically accurate most of the time. (especially with the hangbutt thing which I am eternally thankful for)

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm in favor of replacing "breed" with "flerpity-floops".

 

But in all seriousness, I agree with the overall sentiment. Neither word is properly accurate, I don't think, so it doesn't super matter which one we use, so changing it seems a little pointless.

I am so with KageSora here

[danicast]

I'm in favor of replacing "breed" with "flerpity-floops".

 

But in all seriousness, I agree with the overall sentiment. Neither word is properly accurate, I don't think, so it doesn't super matter which one we use, so changing it seems a little pointless.

I agreed with Kagesora. The change seems to be pointless to me too.

[Likewise]

That doesn't mean we should throw everything biological out the window though. DC does try to be biologically accurate most of the time. (especially with the hangbutt thing which I am eternally thankful for)

Except DC never does that ever. DC focuses on the ecology and behavior of dragons and rarely touches on their biology. With respect to genetics, which is what we're talking about, it throws science out the window at supersonic speeds.

 

DC dragons are actually more similar to Pokemon in their breeding habits than animals on Earth. Pokemon breed using "egg groups." That's the reason why Skitty and Wailord can breed - same egg group. You could think of drakes, pygmies, and two-headed dragons as each having their own egg group, which is why they can't interbreed with others. Again, this makes no sense in terms of Earthly biology. And yes, Pokemon are divided into "species," but due to the way that they breed the term "species" makes about as much sense in Pokemon as "breed" does on DC.