The Ruthless Lineage

[brairtrainer]

So I let my first thread die, I got caught up in other things. I also realize I didn't have a good way of organizing things, I hope this will make it easier.

 

So with out further ado...

 

Welcome to the Ruthless lineage:An expirament with inbreeding

 

Since dragons on DC are considered inbred if one ancestor is repeated in the lineage I wanted to see if there was a way to create a super inbred dragon (per DC standards) and keep it with a low inbreeding percentage according to real life rules of inbreeding. In order to make this easy for members I will be placing guides as to how to calculate inbreeding percentage yourself or I can do it for you.

 

Now every lineage has to have rules, so here are ours

• 1. Follow the naming scheme. The nameing scheme is rather simple take your cb male (founder) and give him a name and tack 'the ruthless' on the end of it. Name the females with suffix names similar to this. All children get their mother's suffix.
• 2. The first breeding dragon from the pair must be male, if it genders female either release, kill, or don't breed it she will not be a part of the lineage
• 3. The first two mates of all male dragons produced from this lineage must be their half siblings (Never breed full siblings together, that keeps the inbreeding percentage too high)
• 4. The third mates of the male dragons may not be related to them, and preferably should be all different dragons

Some recomendations: Recomendations don't have to be followed, they are there to try and keep the lineage interesting

• Freeze the first born child of any pair: this can be handy for describers who want to flesh out the family, or for those who are working on trades within the lineage
• Don't mate two dragons of the same type: the lineage would be boring if all of a sudden the only thing you could produce would be [x] allow yourself to kick out dragons who do not follow this rule
• Start a branch family. A branch family is set up to help give you mates that will increase both DC inbreding count, but it also ups the inbreeding percentage. If you start a branch family name its founder with the ruthless suffix and make his three mates second gens from your main family. When I get there I'll draw up a diagram about how to breed the branch family back into the main family. Note: Branch familes should be started as 2nd gen.
• Exchange lines with people here for your third mates, this will make your dragons more inbred by DC standards without raising the inbreeding percentage. While you could keep everything on your scroll it would be harder than doing it with the thread

Keeping track of the Dragons

 

I'll be keeping track of them on this spread sheet. I know not all dragons have a place on there yet, I'm still working on how to deal with this once the lineage gets bigger. Any recomendations would be apprciated.

 

Visuals

https://i.imgur.com/noypv0H.png?1

This is a mock up of how I planned out the lineage, someone with better art talent can take a crack at making a better version if you want, this is just the best way I could do it. This visual is based off of my dragons (I'm doing all recomendations).

 

For those who like to see it stated out:

 

I started off with one dragon my founder who has three mates. you'll notice that most of the dragons are named and on my scroll. Those are the ones who are in the lineage. I will use them to demonstrate the pattern of breeding to you.

 

This is Ythe the Handsome he has three mates. Two of them are his half siblings. One is not. This is the pattern for all males as the lineage continues.

Edited April 23, 2014 by brairtrainer

[brairtrainer]

Forms + How to calculate a pairs inbreeding

 

New Breeder

[SIZE=7][FONT=Impact]I'm Ruthless[/SIZE][/FONT]
forum name:
scroll:
Founder:

 

New Pair

[SIZE=7][FONT=Impact]A wedding has occured[/SIZE][/FONT]
Male:
Female:

 

Egg form

[SIZE=7][FONT=Impact]A new little one is born[/FONT][/SIZE]
Link to egg:
Inbred percentage:

 

Oops Form

[SIZE=7][FONT=Impact]Oops![/FONT][/SIZE]
What happened:
Fix:

 

Inbreeding Calculations

 

We will be using a very simplified method for calculating inbreeding, at least until I can find the original guide I wanted to use.

 

Please bare with me and ask questions in the thread or by pm so I know what to edit and make clear.

 

All CBs start with: 0% inbreeding.

 

All 2nd gens start with: 0% inbreeding.

 

3rd gens will be variable. I'll be using third gens to explain how to calculate inbreeding percentage. There is also this site which can walk you through the path finding method which we will be using. http://www.braquedubourbonnais.info/en/inb...calculation.htm

 

So We're using half-sibling breeding in this lineage. According to the site the dragons have 12.5% inbreeding. Lets test this.

 

Here we have an inbred dragon.

We can use AOND to label the part of the paths for us by showing where repeated ancestors are. =y]link.

 

In order to get from Ruby Wing to her grandfather (counting him) you go through three dragons. Ruby's father, Ruby's mother, and her grandfather.

 

We then multiply 50% (because that is how many genes an animal can pass down) to the nth power, where n=# of dragons repeated. So

 

Ruby = (.50)^3 or (.50 * .50* .50)=.12 or 12.5%

 

What about calculating beyond third gen?

 

Good question.

 

Simply follow the same steps as above. If you have more than one dragon that shows up multiple times run the inbreeding percentages like we just did for Ruby. Then add them together and divide by two.

 

So if you have a dragon that shows up twice like Sun Devil and you have three other dragons related to him (hypothetical offspring or Ruby ad she wasn't frozen) then you'd calculate out the inbreeding of the offspring to be (.50)^4 or .0625 or 6.25%.

 

Next you look at Ruby's mate and you find that he has his grandfather repeat twice. The amount of inbreeding the dragon would receive? 6.25%.

 

So then you add (6.25% +6.25%) / 2 = 6.25%.

 

But what if you have a dragon who shows up on the far right more than twice?

 

Good question, especially for those using branch families.

 

Lets say we give Ruby another mate, this time this dragon is also the grandson of Sun Devil, but only on one side. to get to sundevil we have to go through three dragons on Ruby's side and two dragons on her mates side.

 

Now Ruby is already inbred, so we can argue that she'll only send down half of her inbreeding percentage (.0625).

 

Her mate though will be cause inbreeding in the child so lets run the percentage he will give. (.5 *.5*.5)= (.125).

 

Next add these two values together. (.1875)

 

Now since most dragons are inbred your percentage will go up, however with planning you can slow down the increase of percentage.

Edited April 18, 2014 by brairtrainer

[brairtrainer]

Giving this a bump to see if there is interest.

[Obscure_Trash]

*waves* I'm still interested! Sorry, when I looked for this the first time, for some reason I couldn't find the topic. I think I might have searched for your name instead of the project name. >.>

 

The graphic is the most helpful thing to me, but I guess I'm still a little confused with what to do with all the children?

[brairtrainer]

The children are bred to each other in half-sibling breedings. Let me pull up one of my furthest examples and see if it helps to explain. Sorry I haven't gotten as far with the branch families so that might be part of what is confusing you.

 

This is what a third gen should look like when you are breeding siblings. Note that the grandmothers are not repeated.

 

If you go to Ythe's progeny page you'll find that he is bred with two half sisters, and one unrelated female. Page

 

Meaning the children are meant to make mates for others in the lineage. The unrelated females are added in to dilute the inbreeding and push down the inbreeding percentage.

 

Did that make it more clear?

[Tiga]

I will join, is just that it is very confusing to begin.

[brairtrainer]

If you would like Tiga I can walk you through how to start. Pick one cb male and three cb females off your scroll and post them here and I'll give you then next steps. Perhaps that will let me see where people are getting confused.

[Tiga]

Alright! C:

 

Brutus the Ruthless

 

And

 

Crested the Curious

Storm the Swift

Fever the Fiery

Edited April 12, 2014 by Tiga

[brairtrainer]

Excellent choices Tiga. There are two steps here that you'll need to consider:

 

Are you going to be freezing hatchlings from the lineage? Are you just going to breed and follow the lineage?

 

Either way you pick your first female to breed Brutus to and hopefully get an egg. If you are going to freeze it then you don't influence it. If you're not going to freeze then you influence it male and you're well on your way.

 

You'll continue this with your other females until you have a son from each pairing.

[Tiga]

Excellent choices Tiga. There are two steps here that you'll need to consider:

 

Are you going to be freezing hatchlings from the lineage? Are you just going to breed and follow the lineage?

 

Either way you pick your first female to breed Brutus to and hopefully get an egg. If you are going to freeze it then you don't influence it. If you're not going to freeze then you influence it male and you're well on your way.

 

You'll continue this with your other females until you have a son from each pairing.

I'm not so sure if I should freeze. I got an Fleshcrowne from the first breeding, is it meant to be the same breed as the father? If it is, then I will freeze it.

[brairtrainer]

No it can be either breed. I just got all breeds of the father because Sunstones are easy to breed.

[Tiga]

No it can be either breed. I just got all breeds of the father because Sunstones are easy to breed.

Okay, since I need the lineage to be perfect, I will freeze this one and see if a brute turns up. I need the lineage to be perfect, or else I can't stand it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Tiga

[brairtrainer]

Alright

 

Updated the spreadsheet.

 

edit to add: I'm just two males away (one hatchling is influenced so I may just be one male away) from having all my gen three males completed and being able to run an introduction on how branch families work. Stay tuned for more updates.

Edited April 10, 2014 by brairtrainer

[Tiga]

I changed around Storm the Swift to a new dragon.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/tAYIs

[brairtrainer]

I changed around Storm the Swift to a new dragon.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/tAYIs

Alright I'll change the spreadsheet.

[terminallypisces]

I'm Ruthless

forum name: terminallypisces

scroll: terminallypisces

Founder: CB Garnet The Ruthless TP

 

His Mates:

CB Pristine The Enchantress TP

CB Ocha The Priestess TP

CB Mystic The Majestic TP

 

Note, "TP" is on everyone one of my dragons. It is a scroll name ^^

[terminallypisces]

brairtrainer!

 

You spelled 'Scroll' wrong in the form for new Breeder. My computer auto-corrected it for me, but I thought I would let you know ^^

[terminallypisces]

A wedding has occured

Male:CB Garnet The Ruthless TP

Female:CB Pristine The Enchantress TP

 

Also!

 

A new little one is born

Link to egg:Little Royal Crimson

Inbred percentage: 0%

[brairtrainer]

Making the corrections and adding you to the spreadsheet picses. Welcome to the lineage.

 

Also, will the suffix enchantress also include enchanter for the males? And for Priestess?

Edited April 18, 2014 by brairtrainer

[terminallypisces]

Making the corrections and adding you to the spreadsheet picses. Welcome to the lineage.

 

Also, will the suffix enchantress also include enchanter for the males? And for Priestess?

Yeah, i realized this yesterday that the names were a bit incorrect DX

I will be fixing them soon. I believe Priestess would be Priest for males, assuming that the name would pass differently in the lineage. Unless the name itself 8s the problem

Please let me know exactly what you meant, I am still slightly confused.

 

Thanks again for the notice!

Edited April 22, 2014 by terminallypisces

[brairtrainer]

Sent an explaination but repeating it here:

 

If you wish to use a word or title that is typically used for one sex (ie. Beautiful for females, Enchantress for females) you are allowed to chose a similar word for males (Beautiful mother -> handsome son, Enchantress mother-> Enchanter son etc.)

 

Just let me know so I can lable those as coming from your scroll as a pair of names with similar back ground. I will be updating the spreadsheet soon and posting my eggs (which yes I've been bad and haven't been) this weekend. I will still add new members as they come because that process takes less time and checking.

[Takhesis]

I'd like to join please

 

I'm Ruthless

forum name: Takhesis

scroll: Takhesis

Founder: Griffith the Ruthless

 

I'd also like to announce the following:

 

A wedding has occured

Male: Griffith the Ruthless

Female: Isolde the Cold

 

It has been successfully consummated:

 

A new little one is born

Link to egg: Isolde's first born

Inbred percentage: 0%

 

Griffith's intended mistresses - barring complications - are:

Pandora the Delirious

and

Sandy the Adorned

[brairtrainer]

I have added you Takhisis :3 good to have more people taking an interest, now if my dragons would stop being stubborn >.>

 

I've added the abiltiy to add comments to the spread sheet. If you notice something that is unclear you can leave feed back there or let me know if a link or something is incorrect, as well as letting me know here in the thread.

[Tiga]

A new little one is born

Link to egg: http://dragcave.net/lineage/73gQB

Inbred percentage: 0%

 

I was meaning to do this a few days ago... Whops. ^^

 

A wedding has occured

Male: Kolton the Ruthless

Female: Desserie the Gentle

 

I haven't tried the pair yet.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/PMBrq ~~> Musaeth the Nocturne

http://dragcave.net/lineage/iHmvK ~~> Kaylet the Bright

Edited April 23, 2014 by Tiga

[brairtrainer]

A new little one is born

Link to egg: http://dragcave.net/lineage/73gQB

Inbred percentage: 0%

 

I was meaning to do this a few days ago... Whops. ^^

 

A wedding has occured

Male: Kolton the Ruthless

Female: Desserie the Gentle

 

I haven't tried the pair yet.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/PMBrq ~~> Musaeth the Nocturne

http://dragcave.net/lineage/iHmvK ~~> Kaylet the Bright

Tiga were you attempting to set up a branch family or are you running two families off your scroll? Just checking before I change the spread sheet as right now branch families aren't recorded (yet, figuring out how to best record them) and should be started at 2nd gen. (If its a branch family I'll want you to help me better set up that explanation I know somethings are sticky >.>)