ANSWERED:No Raffles

[626lavaheart]

Tawanda001

idk raffles threads give people a place to complain. ._.

and it seems like a lot of coding work... when there's already got the cave as a great way to distribute eggs.

 

I'm pretty sure that right now TJ sends them all himself... or at least that it's not completely automatic since TJ commented in irc that he remembered one of the last prize winner's codes and thought it was cool. If he does already have such a system in place... I guess it could work.

 

I'd only be ok with it if it was 1 random prize per week OR 1 of each per month (with no new prizes added of course) I definately would prefer the 1 prize per week. because it'd mean a lot less prizes being released yearly.

 

I'd also feel that there would be no HM prizes. except maybe a few around the holidays. simply as an added bonus.

 

Its kinda the opposite of what I'm supposed to be rooting in this thread though ya know

 

 

 

 

[rumor33]

Thought about it but hoped for at least a few opinions to see if it had any merit. It's depressing to start a new thread that dies after a few lonely posts.

There is a thread like this http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=158581 though honestly I don't think monthly raffles are going to get a lot of support, general feeling is that they mess with regular releases to much.

[Tawanda001]

There is a thread like this http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=158581 though honestly I don't think monthly raffles are going to get a lot of support, general feeling is that they mess with regular releases to much.

Hmmm, similar, not quite what I had in mind, but close enough maybe I can drop the topic there and see what happens. TY.

 

NOW, back to your regularly scheduled program of "no more raffles"

Edited February 10, 2014 by Tawanda001

[Mondat]

Is the only option to overcome unhappiness to promptly stop caring about the issue in question at all? If people are unhappy with a situation, they have every right to see if they can't make changes to it, rather than giving up and pretending it doesn't matter to them.

 

DC is a game; games exist to make people happy; a fair amount of people aren't currently happy with this one aspect of the game. If people were, say, trying to change the game to collecting all fantasy critters rather than just dragons because they were unhappy it was "only dragons," it'd be fair to tell them to go along and find another fantasy game to please them, as such a suggestion truly would alter the very heart of the game to suit them. But since the raffle is a fairly new addition to DC,  far from being the main core of the game, and has caused annoyance and frustration to a notable portion of players, I don't think it's amiss to try to make changes to it.

To me, raffle is raffle. You'll win or you'll lose.

I am not entitled to get a 2nd-gen from a CB prize owner - no one is.

These are the facts. Unshakeable, bloody facts. And therefore there's nothing to complain or to fight for, from my side. Why would I fight to increase my chances of winning or getting something I have no right to get?

I like the raffle as it is. I liked thinking about what to take as a HM. I liked checking the link TJ left so I could see if I won or not.

 

What I gathered from the threads regarding multiclutching/handing out more CB Prizes/increase breeding ratios/release the prizes to the cave etc. it seems to me that the only problems people have are: not winning and not getting offspring to create own lineages.

It's not about the raffle itself.

Suggestions for improving the raffle should be in my opinion something like: make obtaining the raffle tickets harder so it's more challenging, more games, extension of event time etc. - no changes regarding the prizes.

 

There should be a thread called "I want to have a CB Shimmer-scale or CB Tinsel, 2nd-gen is also fine", then it wouldn't be misleading. Because that's what it's about, nothing else in my opinion.

 

EDIT:

@626lavaheart

Thanks & sorry. I am not going to post here anymore because I feel we're turning around in circles.

And thanks for the badges!

Edited February 10, 2014 by Mondat

[626lavaheart]

* applauds Mondat for saying what she didn't have the courage to say*

 

thank you

 

however I feel we /ARE/ getting off topic U_u even if I feel that is ok in a situation that is tied to so many other threads I have no idea what mods constitute as off topic in this situation so I'm being careful lol

Edited February 10, 2014 by 626lavaheart

[angelicdragonpuppy]

To me, raffle is raffle. You'll win or you'll lose.

I am not entitled to get a 2nd-gen from a CB prize owner - no one is.

These are the facts. Unshakeable, bloody facts.

 

[...]

 

it seems to me that the only problems people have are: not winning and not getting offspring to create own lineages.

It's not about the raffle itself.

You're right that no one is entitled to anything. However! As a player of the game, I do have the right to speak up when I feel something about the game is less fun than it could be.

 

Obviously my opinion is not shared by everyone (or we'd not be having this discussion, ha), but the reason I play games is to escape from reality, and to feel, well, a bit more awesome than I can in real life. I enjoy games where with time and patience I can stand at the very top, and where all those who come behind me also have a fairly equal shot at it. Where hard work really can get you just about everything, rather than presenting you with "not everything's fair, you can't get everything, get over it" scenarios that I deal with plenty enough in reality. While DC has always not been entirely perfect in that regard--even before Prizes came about, CB Hollies and CB Metals of course created divisions--I feel that end goal of "everyone can be equally awesome" was much more obtainable than it is now.

 

I mean, think about it. CB Metals used to be what people sighed that they'd never get and tried really hard to grab. And now, if on any given occasion a CB Prize owner decided to put up a 2nd gen for trade and asked for CB Metals, they'd get them. Not one, mind you. Multiples. The old rarest of the rare now must generally be amassed in multiples to get a 2nd gen from another person's dragon. Again, not all Prizes go for this, and such prices certainly aren't always what's asked for, but the fact remains that they could go for such prices, if wanted, because they are that elusive and people want them that badly. That should say more than anything else that the divide between the top and the bottom has grown worse, not narrower. It is true that people will always complain--even if Prizes had never happened, people would complain about CB Metals--but I feel there's more reason for resentment now than there used to be.

 

(Do a few people who would never have gotten a rare ever benefit from the raffles? Absolutely! However, for every one such player there's likely a hundred or more other players with slow connections who now have another super shiny thing they'll probably never get a low gen of. And since low gen Prizes almost always go for more than low gen Metals, this new rare will be even harder to get a hold of in low gen form than any other rare ever was before for them. That doesn't seem an ideal way to go about balancing the game.)

 

Also, from a lineage collector perspective--a game that's mainly about collecting and hard work (or perhaps 'patient work') threw in a set of very beautiful dragons that, aside from the very first raffle, can only be won in CB form by chance, and by a very small amount of players. Into a game where lineages have grown increasingly important as many older users run out of new sprites to collect. And on top of that--due again to the small number of winners in proportion to everyone else--even simple low gens of the breed can be extremely difficult to come by. And most who work with lineages can testify that low gens are the cornerstones of lineage building--it's there that the mates used is determined, that the basic pattern is developed, that the images used are still largest and thus nicest looking, that the lineage has the least chance to be distorted by a sudden death of an ancestor.

 

All that considered, I believe the way the raffle is currently executed is problematic. These things might seem silly to some, but to others they mean a great deal.

 

Also in regards to the some people like to feel rich, even if only in fantasy games thing--well, couldn't a raffle that gave out a CB Metal or two to the winners, or even a full set of four, have accomplished much the same, with less frustration for the losers? Again, I play games so I can escape real world things and have a 95% assurance of eventually becoming "rich" thanks to my own efforts--not to once again have to go capering around the feet of the elite in an effort to collect things I'd like to play with.

 

Raffles are here now, and that can't be changed, but I still think much can be done to balance them out.

 

(And, again, I won't crumple down and cry if changes don't happen. The raffles have hurt the "you can get it all" feeling of DC for me, more so than any other exclusive or discontinued, but the fact that I'm still here after three years of 'em should show I have plenty else to do. Doesn't mean I can't still hope for changes.)

Edited February 10, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Obscure_Trash]

Just a reminder to please respect other people's playstyles. No one has to like anything in the cave, nor do we have a right to tell people what their scroll goals should be or anything like that. Pros nor cons for this should not be things like "people should be grateful we get x at all". Please base your posts on your own playstyle and what the pros/cons are for the raffle itself and how it affects the cave.

[pinkgothic]

I mean, think about it. CB Metals used to be what people sighed that they'd never get and tried really hard to grab. And now, if on any given occasion a CB Prize owner decided to put up a 2nd gen for trade and asked for CB Metals, they'd get them. Not one, mind you. Multiples. The old rarest of the rare now must generally be amassed in multiples to get a 2nd gen from another person's dragon. Again, not all Prizes go for this, and such prices certainly aren't always what's asked for, but the fact remains that they could go for such prices, if wanted, because they are that elusive and people want them that badly. That should say more than anything else that the divide between the top and the bottom has grown worse, not narrower. It is true that people will always complain--even if Prizes had never happened, people would complain about CB Metals--but I feel there's more reason for resentment now than there used to be.

 

Honestly, though, the release of the first prize dragons coincided with the metal flood, and the metallics are still much more available as CBs than they had been before ever since.

 

(...I can tell because I can catch them occasionally now. *sheepish look*)

 

I do think your underlying point is uncontested by that, honestly (in fact, I strongly agree with your post as a whole), but I also think it's something to factor in.

[ryon_brink]

I disagree with the suggestion to remove the raffles. Doing so would, in my opinion, only increase the amount of drama we see. To insane levels for at least a while. Afterwards it may die down, of course, but I don't think it would stay gone forever, especially if prizes can still breed.

The fact is that a lot of people play this game caring about what lineage their dragons have and also trying to build own lineages. So prize dragons, especially low-gen prize dragons, will never be something that people just shrug off. So if you keep 2nd gens at the level of rarity they are at now (and this is the best case scenario with no prize winners going inactive ever), how do you expect drama to lessen?

The issue is not with the raffle, it's not even with the threads to improve the raffle. In my opinion those are perfectly valid suggestions to improve a feature of the site to make it more enjoyable for at least a large group of people.

I agree that the issue is with people thinking they're entitled to something in this game. But the way I see it those people are a minority. More importantly, do you really think you can change their entire attitude by removing this one feature? People with a mindset like that will find something else to complain about every single time.

So my point really boils down to: Why do away with a feature enjoyed by many if there is no real betterment of the situation to be gained? The situation being the existence of a small group of people who will destructively complain about stuff.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Also in regards to the some people like to feel rich, even if only in fantasy games thing--well, couldn't a raffle that gave out a CB Metal or two to the winners, or even a full set of four, have accomplished much the same, with less frustration for the losers?

Now THIS makes brilliant sense (though may not be what you intended to suggest, ADP !). Have a raffle - sure - but with the prizes being - say - for "gold" - four eggs of your choice, silver 3, bronze 2 and HM one ? To include things like Hollies, CB hybrids and all the others. Not AS exclusive in a way, except for Hollies and hybrids, but I would imagine just as satisfying in the end, and with far less impact on the "ugh" market !

[Ashes The Second]

Now THIS makes brilliant sense (though may not be what you intended to suggest, ADP !). Have a raffle - sure - but with the prizes being - say - for "gold" - four eggs of your choice, silver 3, bronze 2 and HM one ? To include things like Hollies, CB hybrids and all the others. Not AS exclusive in a way, except for Hollies and hybrids, but I would imagine just as satisfying in the end, and with far less impact on the "ugh" market !

But fuzz, what about the people who have *different* prizes? When they leave? No more 2nd Gens. That's crippling, in my eyes. And again, closing the barn door after the horses are out. I would love if the prizes were sterile, and were simply to say that "I won". Something along those lines.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

But fuzz, what about the people who have *different* prizes? When they leave? No more 2nd Gens. That's crippling, in my eyes. And again, closing the barn door after the horses are out. I would love if the prizes were sterile, and were simply to say that "I won". Something along those lines.

What about them ? If we keep getting new prizes every couple of years the effect will be just the same. I just wish it had started out that way, so we didn't have all the angst.

 

Your sterility thing would have the same effect but more so - as there'd be no chance to get ANY gens of those already out there. This way at least those who love raffles can have them, without all the "discussion" afterwards.

[KageSora]

but overall that seems like a silly thing to complain about. Why complain you can't get low gens when that doesn't matter for completing your scroll?

Except for some people, it actually DOES matter because they cannot complete their goal without having CB (or, 2nd gen if CB is not possible) of each breed.

 

Not everybody has a goal based ONLY on having the individual sprites. The lineages of said sprites actually matter to some people.

 

Because there is no one single way to "complete" your scroll--each scroll is complete when the owner feels it is, each "goal" is set by the individual player.

 

 

 

Personally, I really dislike the idea of stopping the raffles. I agree that it'll just cause more drama. It'll give more value to the 2nd gens, and that value will increase slowly as players leave the game. Even if a handful of winners remained, though, it wouldn't help--because then they'd be the only suppliers when the demand is huge.

 

I've seen it happen plenty of times--even with non-collectible items. As soon as the readily available supply is exhausted, if there is still decent demand then the prices skyrocket. At times to an even higher price than when it was initially available.

 

Same thing'll happen here. If you cut off or decrease the supply without doing anything to decrease the demand, then the value of the supply will only increase.

[sbowen]

You know, I understand that you're trying to stop everyone getting so mad over not winning, but I honestly like the raffles. I did get kind of annoyed that someone who already won once won again this year, though. So I support the less annoyed people part, but I think that the raffles should stay. Like, maybe stop with all the publicity so it wasn't as big a thing, but keep the raffles?

[cyradis4]

Now THIS makes brilliant sense (though may not be what you intended to suggest, ADP !). Have a raffle - sure - but with the prizes being - say - for "gold" - four eggs of your choice, silver 3, bronze 2 and HM one ? To include things like Hollies, CB hybrids and all the others. Not AS exclusive in a way, except for Hollies and hybrids, but I would imagine just as satisfying in the end, and with far less impact on the "ugh" market !

I wish, more than anything, that THIS is what the Raffle had always been. However since we have the prizes..... :/

 

Cheers!

C4.

[purplehaze]

Drama is the name of the game in this forum. You will see it in almost every News post at some time or other. New releases? Always some drama -- too hard to catch, don't dare crit the sprite or you might offend the artists, blah, blah, blah . . .

 

I don't think that ending the raffle will end the drama. It is much too late for that now. And the drama will always be with us. It will just find another target.

 

And no matter how much you protest to the contrary, there will be a decrease in the supply of 2nd gens eventually -- maybe not right away, but eventually. People leave the game for a variety of reasons. Breeders may just get breeding fatigue and decide that it is just not worth it to keep breeding their shinies every week to try to supply the demand.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Honestly, though, the release of the first prize dragons coincided with the metal flood, and the metallics are still much more available as CBs than they had been before ever since.

 

(...I can tell because I can catch them occasionally now. *sheepish look*)

 

I do think your underlying point is uncontested by that, honestly (in fact, I strongly agree with your post as a whole), but I also think it's something to factor in.

I joined in July 2008, and the general consensus then was that Metals were flooding the cave (an argument that's always made sense to me, considering I got three CB Metals within two months of joining the game ). After that, they became virtually impossible to find for a really long time, and I didn't get any more until 2012--as you say, around the time of the raffle. But everything else that happened makes me think the current state is closer to being balanced at last rather than another flood. Of course, only TJ can say either way for certain!

 

At any rate, glad we agree on most points! ^^

 

Now THIS makes brilliant sense (though may not be what you intended to suggest, ADP !). Have a raffle - sure - but with the prizes being - say - for "gold" - four eggs of your choice, silver 3, bronze 2 and HM one ? To include things like Hollies, CB hybrids and all the others. Not AS exclusive in a way, except for Hollies and hybrids, but I would imagine just as satisfying in the end, and with far less impact on the "ugh" market !

 

Fuzz, nothing would have pleased me more if this is how things had been done from the start. But, like it or hate it, the Prize dragons are here now. Unless another way to get them on a stable basis is implemented, cutting off the supply of new Prizes is only going to make the current market / irritation worse, not better.

[olympe]

I absolutely agree with this suggestion. All raffles have done so far is...

• ... cause drama and frustration among the player base.
• ... completely take over the trading market. Before, we could trade rares or commons easily - now, trading is all about lineage swaps.
• ... give some people the DC equivalent of a money printing press
• ... cause a lot of work (for TJ and the artists)

Right now, I'd rather have no more raffles than go with the current system.

 

It's true that, eventually, 2nd (and 3rd) gen prizes will be as good as unobtainable. But, seriously, I couldn't care less.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I absolutely agree with this suggestion. All raffles have done so far is...

• ... cause drama and frustration among the player base.
• ... completely take over the trading market. Before, we could trade rares or commons easily - now, trading is all about lineage swaps.
• ... give some people the DC equivalent of a money printing press
• ... cause a lot of work (for TJ and the artists)

Right now, I'd rather have no more raffles than go with the current system.

 

It's true that, eventually, 2nd (and 3rd) gen prizes will be as good as unobtainable. But, seriously, I couldn't care less.

Aside from the work for the staff and the artists, all the problems you listed would likely become worse, not lessen, with the removal of the raffle. People have a printing press because CB Prizes are that rare. They take over the trade market because they're that rare. People are frustrated because they're that rare.

 

And what would ending the raffle do? Make them even more rare.

[Nakuru]

Honestly, without making CB Prize dragons obtainable in another way (which would create drama anyway), eliminating the raffle would just increase all the actual issues, because:

 

-Short gen ones would be ever scarcer that they are now.

-And as consequence of that, they would be even more rare and their value would increase even more.

-To make things worse, it would create more pressure on the CB owners that keep playing.

 

So no, it's better for raffles to stay and search for a way to improve them, which many are already trying to do with several suggestions.

[rumor33]

Drama is the name of the game in this forum. You will see it in almost every News post at some time or other. New releases? Always some drama -- too hard to catch, don't dare crit the sprite or you might offend the artists, blah, blah, blah . . .

 

This. Drama is a constant state of being, especially on the internet. Honestly, as a whole we all seem like a far more civil group than most but still drama is completely unavoidable. The fact that there is drama can't be factored in, because no matter what you do there will ALWAYS be drama.

Edited February 10, 2014 by rumor33

[lilacamy931]

This. Drama is a constant state of being, especially on the internet. Honestly, as a whole we all seem like a far more civil group than most but still drama is completely unavoidable. The fact that there is drama can't be factored in, because no matter what you do there will ALWAYS be drama.

Always this, it will just be redirected to the next thing

[Firebirdwyvern]

Yeah, more CL dragons, there's too many collecting dust.

 

Maybe Raffles can be different. Maybe a few people can get a newly released dragon (from the CL) through the Raffle before the dragon is officially released, TJ can have his dragons of course.

[Moonlightelf]

...funny how I couldn't spot anyone mentioning the Guardian of Natures in this thread, when saying how hard something is to obtain. *shot*

 

But yeah... While raffles are what they are in this site, it's part of the site in my opinion. Sure it hasn't been around that long, only for 3 years so far, but it's quite a nice thing actually.

 

If raffles were retired now, how one would go about getting a Frilled dragon then, hm? Nowadays that's only way to obtain one into scroll in case you get HM. Some might baww over that little fact if raffles were taken away.

 

And also some other CB raffle-only breeds going Dodo. Would be really a good way to make one more or less active CB prize owner into a millionaire really.

 

Though if people are being "Baww, I didn't win raffle! Ban it all!", I do wonder how people are going to comprehend the results of Super Bowl or any other raffle-type of lotto in real life in future...

Yeah, such should be banned as well then, since people can't seem to understand nature of pixel-game's raffle. Right... Though it might be little harder to get rid of it.

[Fiona]

[*]... cause a lot of work (for TJ and the artists)

How do you figure that? I can't speak to "work for TJ" of course, as I'm not him. But we've had two prize dragons now two years apart. Assuming that we won't get them more often than that, how do you figure making prize dragons is that much work for the artists?

 

Speaking only for myself, I like the raffles. I'd like them to stay. I think any "solution" that would eliminate the raffles completely would only cause more dissension and discontent.