ANSWERED:No Raffles

[626lavaheart]

I apologize Tawanda001 but I'm not really understanding what your getting at fully.

my suggestion would simply stop bringing in CBs. not stop them from breeding . :?

 

aww fuzzbucket you have to have more hope. I'm sure things can turn around at least a lil if we try.

 

Shirosaki_Gin I totally agree not everyone will ever be happy with changes or lack of changes. But we should at least try to make them happy or at least make the future happier without a sense of uhggg it's holiday season now to listen to people whine and moan.

Edited February 9, 2014 by 626lavaheart

[Tawanda001]

I apologize Tawanda001 but I'm not really understanding what your getting at fully.

my suggestion would simply stop bringing in CBs. not stop them from breeding . :?

 

aww fuzzbucket you have to have more hope. I'm sure things can turn around at least a lil if we try.

 

Shirosaki_Gin I totally agree not everyone will ever be happy with changes or lack of changes. But we should at least try to make them happy.

Because people aren't complaining so much "boohoo I didn't win a CB", the problem is that a lot of people are upset the low gens are near impossible to get, that is the focus of a lot of the 'want to improve the raffle suggestions'

 

If you could guarantee that every CB prize produced 4 shiny eggs every week and those eggs were somehow evenly distributed through the community (as opposed to mostly landing on the scrolls of a small group of players) a LOT of the complaining would vanish.

 

You are focusing on CB's, whereas a good bit of the suggestions are meant to be fixes for the problems associated with scarcity and trade values of low gens. Eliminating more new prizes by doing away with raffles while continuing to let existing prizes still breed only exacerbates the scarcity of low gens and compounds the existing problems.

[Fuzzbucket]

aww fuzzbucket you have to have more hope. I'm sure things can turn around at least a lil if we try.

You really think attitudes will change ? You are a LOT younger than I am, I guess

 

NOTHING will stop the grief of non-winners. The only difference between this and the various lotteries around the world is that there is no forum for people to say how unfair it is that they didn't win

 

(Mind you - last night I actually won a raffle prize (at a fund raising event) for the first time in my entire and very very long life !)

[car340]

You really think attitudes will change ? You are a LOT younger than I am, I guess

 

NOTHING will stop the grief of non-winners. The only difference between this and the various lotteries around the world is that there is no forum for people to say how unfair it is that they didn't win

 

(Mind you - last night I actually won a raffle prize (at a fund raising event) for the first time in my entire and very very long life !)

Well, one thing to stop the grief is either make the prizes sent out fairly, like 20% of the people, or just get rid of prizes once and for all. Stop sending them out, stop allowing users to obtain the CB version, stop the drama train.

 

Wait lemme revise that. How about... no more breeding option. I'm kidding!

Edited February 9, 2014 by car340

[626lavaheart]

thank you! sorry for not understanding you the first time.

 

but overall that seems like a silly thing to complain about. Why complain you can't get low gens when that doesn't matter for completing your scroll?

(They really don't seem scarce at all to me really they're always just clogging the trading threads. but of course that's entirely my opinion)

 

but imo all the suggestions that are kicking around seem to fall from a real want for something special for everyone out of raffles or prize dragons. which gives me a deep feeling that people are extremely unhappy with the outcomes of raffles. Why complain about something you don't really really want?

 

edit: fuzzbucket I've changed several people's opinions on hot topics before. You just have to know which buttons to punch and what emotions to manipulate. ^^

 

also lol car you're silly. you're gonna get bit in this thread, I'll stir up convo in the irc just for you. <3

Edited February 9, 2014 by 626lavaheart

[Tawanda001]

but overall that seems like a silly thing to complain about. Why complain you can't get low gens when that doesn't matter for completing your scroll?

Because for a lot of people completing their scroll is a goal they have already accomplished, or perhaps don't even care much about to begin with. Most of those folks have moved on to building lineages as a way to keep interested in the game.

 

I know, I know, lots of people insist pixels shouldn't have more or less value because of lineages, but the reality is that they do. Just look at the trades, and I don't see that changing unless something drastic happens.

 

Again try to imagine having to build all your lineages from third gens, it would be frustrating. That's a little bit the feelings people have when they know they can't make pretty lineages of their choosing from prize progeny because it's impossible to get their hands on any. It's like saying "here, you can build anything at all you want, EXCEPT this"

 

Personally accept that I'll probably never have CB prize because my luck just doesn't run that way. But having to accept that I will probably never have a 2g because they are sooooo hard to get is a little harder pill to swallow. They just shouldn't be that darn difficult, because it's not like the 2gs are prizes too.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, one thing to stop the grief is either make the prizes sent out fairly, like 20% of the people, or just get rid of prizes once and for all. Stop sending them out, stop allowing users to obtain the CB version, stop the drama train.

 

Wait lemme revise that. How about... no more breeding option. I'm kidding!

What makes 20% "fair" ? That's a HUGE proportion.

 

Whatever proportion you up it to will not be enough till it hits 100%. 1% is industry standard for a raffle, as I have said many times. That is not hugely high - but whatever it is set at (and I think the standard is fair enough !) there will be complaints until the day TJ throws up his hands in despair and says everyone wins. Which makes raffles useless. Either people have to accept that very few people win or it has to go.

[cyradis4]

thank you! sorry for not understanding you the first time.

 

but overall that seems like a silly thing to complain about. Why complain you can't get low gens when that doesn't matter for completing your scroll?

(They really don't seem scarce at all to me really they're always just clogging the trading threads. but of course that's entirely my opinion)

 

but imo all the suggestions that are kicking around seem to fall from a real want for something special for everyone out of raffles or prize dragons. which gives me a deep feeling that people are extremely unhappy with the outcomes of raffles. Why complain about something you don't really really want?

 

edit: fuzzbucket I've changed several people's opinions on hot topics before. You just have to know which buttons to punch and what emotions to manipulate. ^^

 

also lol car you're silly. you're gonna get bit in this thread, I'll stir up convo in the irc just for you. <3

 

Look at my scroll, kiddo. I've long since "completed" my scroll. I've got one of every dragon that can be currently had. And Frills, which can't be had anymore. In all but a dozen cases, I've "completed" my scroll EIGHT TIMES. In fact.... *looks at 100 Reds, 100 Moonstones, 50 Sunstones, 30+ Guardians, Nocturnes, and a few others).

 

In short, I have no new sprites to collect, if I only wanted one of each. The only reason I'm still playing this game is to build lineages. The only thing that keeps a lot of my friends coming back are lineages.

 

And the Tinsels and Shimmers are 6 of the shiniest sprites in the game. And I can't use them for even gen lineages, which to my way of thinking, are the only lineages worth doing. The other types are too simple.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[Mondat]

I am against this. The raffles are very fun. The issue is not with the raffle itself, but with people being unable to accept that they might not win.

+1

May I add "and with people being unable to accept they cannot create low-gen lineages"?

 

New suggestions for improving the raffle:

- teach people what a "raffle" is and what it's about

- have people change their way of thinking

- stop the Prize obsession

- stop whining

- "I survived the Raffle and the Post Raffle War" scroll badges for everybody

[Tawanda001]

- have people change their way of thinking

find a way to do that, bottle it and sell it, you'd make millions, nay billions!

[cyradis4]

find a way to do that, bottle it and sell it, you'd make millions, nay billions!

Try trillions, many times over.

 

C4.

[626lavaheart]

C4 and Tawanda001

 

you guys would probably be for the prize substitute then? If you are unhappy with the monotone boring-ness of having completed your scroll another almost impossible to obtain dragon should be right up your alley of fun?. I myself have turned to lineages too and would love to have a dragon so rare.

(I don't care for a dragon that people who want CBs only have a small chance once a year that is on par with winning the lottery.)

 

Mondat

I'll add some of the things from your list to mine

[cyradis4]

C4 and Tawanda001

 

you guys would probably be for the prize substitute then? If you are unhappy with the monotone boring-ness of having completed your scroll another almost impossible to obtain dragon should be right up your alley of fun?. I myself have turned to lineages too and would love to have a dragon so rare.

(I don't care for a dragon that people who want CBs only have a small chance once a year that is on par with winning the lottery.)

 

Mondat

I'll add some of the things from your list to mine

I do NOT want a prize substitute, I want them altered so that 2nd gens of the EXISTING 6 Prize sprites can be obtained for a couple of CB Metals.

 

Seriously, if you count the offspring of CB Prizes and compare them to the number of CB Golds and Silvers in the trade forums, you'd see that the Cave has generated more CB Golds and Silvers in January 2014 than the number of 2nd gen Prizes produced in the entire year of 2013. (I dare TJ to prove otherwise!)

 

I enjoy creating pretty lineages. It irks me no end that half of the shiny metal population CAN"T be used for even gens, unless I want to accept the really unsightly presence of tombstones in my nice pretty lineages.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[Ashywolf]

Its not the raffles or the prizes that are the issue, its that people are obsessed with 2nd gens.

[tyto_alba]

Gotta say the only thing mentioned at all in this thread that I care one bit about having more dragons from the Completed Section released. There are so many dragons on that list collecting dust that it breaks my heart. I'd love to see dragons specifically from that list being released in cave, and multiple at a time.

 

As for raffles, I don't particularly care. If there is an event connected to a raffle, I participate for the event, not the chance to get a prize dragon. I've pretty much decided I'll never win one, so I don't get my hopes up when I participate in an event where winning a dragon is possible. (I didn't participate at all in the Christmas event because I didn't think it worth my time, either.)

Edited February 10, 2014 by tyto_alba

[Tawanda001]

C4 and Tawanda001

 

you guys would probably be for the prize substitute then?....l another almost impossible to obtain dragon should be right up your alley of fun?

Not really, I think the 2gs already qualify as the only "nearly impossible to obtain" dragons that everybody fusses over, why would I want to see more added to that?

 

And yes it is the 2g and 3g that throw things out of whack, and why a lot of the suggestions pertain to ideas on how to fix that, by upping prize ratios, multiclutch, better success with breeding rates, more raffles, etc.

You aren't going to change that, people being people, so why not talk about ways to fix those problems?

[cyradis4]

Its not the raffles or the prizes that are the issue, its that people are obsessed with 2nd gens.

I made the personal decision, that first raffle, that I would never:

- Sell my soul for a 2nd gen

- Compromise my personal integrity and values to get a 2nd gen (harass CB owners, in other words, right when they get their prizes)

- Cheat to increase my chances of a CB

 

So no, I am not obsessed with 2nd gens.

 

Do I want them? Yes.

Am I working with 2 people who own 2nd gens, in order to get even gen lineages? Yes.

Will I PM 2nd gen, and even some CB owners, who's profiles seem open to contact? Yes.

Do I expect to ever win a raffle? No.

Do I expect to ever own more than one or two 2nd gens? No.

Am I happy that there are 6 shiny exclusive sprites I can't work with? No. I'm very unhappy.

Am I happy that half of the shiny metallic sprites are exclusives that can't be worked with? No.

Am I willing to work for a change so that I, and others, can work more with those exclusive sprites? Yes.

 

As a result, I'm only on two lists where I've got even a shot at getting a 2nd gen in 2014. And one of those is going to be an outright gift. A gift I didn't ask for, but will treasure. Almost all of my 3rd gens were gifts.

 

So I take offense at people saying that the only issue is people being "obsessed" with 2nd gens. There is a reason people want these 2nd gens, they are beautiful. And unobtainablely rare. You would think, that if its "only" the rarity, that people would be interested in the 2nd gen offspring of the CB Hybrids that come out for HM. Are people offering multiple CB metals for those? No. Despite there being far fewer of them.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Fact of the matter is: 2nd gen Prizes are rarer than CB Metals. Even if at rare times they can be traded more for cheaply, generally speaking they trade for far more--and at any rate, there are certainly less of them around.

 

Do people think CB Metals are enough of a challenge? I'm pretty darn well off by DC standards and I still usually can only catch one or two a year. Many people have had less luck than myself. So I would say that they are the golden standard of "challenging but possible," while 2nd gen Prizes often go from that to "darn near impossible," which is considerably less fun.

 

People who don't care for lineages or don't care for prizes can tell those who do to get over it as much as they like, but as someone who would love to be able to work with Silver Shimmers in a checker of my choosing, and who generally detests games where there are uber exclusives, I am pretty sad that it seems unlikely to ever happen, or at least will happen only very, very rarely--far more rarely then I have chances to work with normal Golds and Silvers.

 

Also please note that for many of us it is not the end of the game! I don't see many people, if anyone, in here screaming that everyone gets 2nd gens or they'll quit. There are and will be other things to keep lineage builders entertained with the game for a very long time. However, that doesn't mean people can't still hope for 2nd gens--heck, even CB Prizes--to be a bit more available. And it would be nice if we could do so without constantly being labelled "whiners," "sore losers," "crybabies" and all the rest.

 

To tie all this back to the thread--unless things change drastically and CB Prizes become available through other routes, I am firmly against the ending of them, as it would only make the current situation all the more frustrating. With every new raffle comes new owners, new prizes, and more low gens to satisfy those who want them; shut that off, and you'll have more people with even lower chances than the already very low ones, and prize owners who never get new winners to take some of the swarm of eager hopefuls off themselves.

[purpledragonclaw]

I do not support this idea. I love the raffles: I love the events surrounding them, I love the dragons given out as prizes, and I love the fact that the number of prizes given out this year has increased from last year. I have yet to win, but I'm still hopeful every year that I'll get lucky. Drama is a negative side-effect I'd prefer to no raffles at all.

[Mondat]

I think DC needs "I didn't win the raffle but I'm still happy badges".

"I survived the Raffle and the Post Raffle War" sounds much better in my opinion. Everyone will think - no, they'll know - that you're a though person. Make it start the song "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor everytime you click on the badge and I am pretty sure every player would feel like a fighter.

 

 

@cyradis4

If a person says they are unhappy because they cannot work with some specific dragon sprite whose CB can be only obtained by winning a raffle, I'd assume that such a person would just let it go - for their own good.

But trying to change a raffle system or rules/settings of Dragon Cave so some of you can work on your pretty lineages?

(...)

 

Whatever pleases you, I personally prefer to be happy.

[sparkle10184]

I don't support this idea. I love the raffles and I would hate to see them go. I've never won a raffle, but it's still fun! I know there's a lot of hype about the prize dragons and it's sometimes hard not to feel bad about not getting one, but in the end they are just pixels.

[20mia08]

I think it's like trying to shut the barn door after the horses have escaped.

All it accomplishes is to make the existing prize dragons and their progeny even more valuable. Trade values for the offspring would go off the charts.

 

^^^I totally agree with that. Stopping raffles would be insane, people would probably have more fits because they'd trade a lot for offspring of the "rare" prize dragons. It's like Frills and Bright Pinks. Also, CB Prize owners would be pestered constantly with 2nd Gen. requests even more. Also, I love raffles, even though I don't/didn't win, it's still fun to have something to hope for!

[cyradis4]

"I survived the Raffle and the Post Raffle War" sounds much better in my opinion. Everyone will think - no, they'll know - that you're a though person. Make it start the song "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor everytime you click on the badge and I am pretty sure every player would feel like a fighter.

 

 

@cyradis4

If a person says they are unhappy because they cannot work with some specific dragon sprite whose CB can be only obtained by winning a raffle, I'd assume that such a person would just let it go - for their own good.

But trying to change a raffle system or rules/settings of Dragon Cave so some of you can work on your pretty lineages?

(...)

 

Whatever pleases you, I personally prefer to be happy.

Actually, I'm not trying to change the *raffle system*, just how many CBs are distributed (I'd like more of them given out), and how well they breed. There are a half dozen threads about this already. I've been active in all of them.

 

Using your way of thinking.... If someone exists in slavery, then they should just learn to like it? Accept the shackles? Because they can't change it? An extreme example, but valid none the less. Its that kind of thinking, or I should say not thinking, that says revolutions aren't possible. If the United States had followed that thinking? Then we would even now be colonies of Great Britain (whether that would be good or bad I'll leave to you to decide). When enough people are unhappy about the status quo, and they get together, then they can cause a change to the status quo.

 

In short, I'm not going to let my unhappiness with this one aspect of DragCave to affect my life. Will I argue for a change to make my participation in this GAME more enjoyable? Certainly.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING in this universe that is unchangeable. As has been proved by the Holiday breeding limit change, TJ can and is willing to change his mind, if he's convinced. So not even this game, nor the *raffle system*, is unchangeable.

 

And I, for one, am not afraid of change.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 10, 2014 by cyradis4

[Mondat]

Using your way of thinking.... If someone exists in slavery, then they should just learn to like it? Accept the shackles? Because they can't change it? An extreme example, but valid none the less. Its that kind of thinking, or I should say not thinking, that says revolutions aren't possible. If the United States had followed that thinking? Then we would even now be colonies of Great Britain (whether that would be good or bad I'll leave to you to decide).

You do not know me. I am a white woman living in Japan since 2007 and I had and have to fight for many things, for example getting Japanese people to speak Japanese with me, instead of English, which is not my mother tongue. I guess you're talking to the wrong person if you are searching for a person who is afraid of "change".

 

What I think in terms of a game concerning virtual dragon pets isn't necessarily the same what I think in terms of slavery or revolutions.

And I personally do not think that bringing up slavery is appropriate.

We are talking about raffles, trading virtual dragon pets and low-gen lineages.

 

I hope you can get all the 2nd-gens you want - so you can be happy, finally - and wish you a nice day.

[626lavaheart]

I apologize Irisania :C it didn't fit well..

 

~ for both sides of course.

 

C4

I feel you should cool a tad, I apologize if I made you mad. I understand you're tired and mad that the prize dragons are stupid to work with in even gens. I would love to make even gens with them myself. You should push your ideas in the "prize dragons being released in cave thread" It's more likely to be what happens than my suggestion really. my suggestions never work out on any site I mostly make them to have different sides of views that people don't think of.

 

I do feel that it's not like bright pinks and frills. You can't get bright pinks and frills anymore. You'll still be completely able to get prize dragons. just not ones that are pretty and/or small whenever you want.