Spell Scrolls

[Fiona]

A casual player who prefers to be on less has less need of such spells, so I don't see a problem. Especially if the scrolls don't expire after one use. People can play at their own pace and earn whatever scrolls are priorities to them.

 

I really don't see a problem for people who are on a lot earning things faster than people who are not on a lot. To an extent that's how the game is set up anyway.

[AnanoKimi]

A casual player who prefers to be on less has less need of such spells, so I don't see a problem. Especially if the scrolls don't expire after one use. People can play at their own pace and earn whatever scrolls are priorities to them.

 

I really don't see a problem for people who are on a lot earning things faster than people who are not on a lot. To an extent that's how the game is set up anyway.

Wait you get one and keep it? It doesnt poof when you use it? That... kinda sucks actually. If we get BSA scrolls like some have suggested then what will we do with actual BSA dragons?

 

Neh. Just saying. Sounds good either or, I just wanted to throw my two cents out there, on top of the fact that I like random things to just drop out of the sky for no good reason. Its fun unless its heavy, then it hurts.

 

But yeah so scrolls will be reusable? I don't like this idea...

[Fuzzbucket]

Wait you get one and keep it? It doesnt poof when you use it? That... kinda sucks actually. If we get BSA scrolls like some have suggested then what will we do with actual BSA dragons?

 

Neh. Just saying. Sounds good either or, I just wanted to throw my two cents out there, on top of the fact that I like random things to just drop out of the sky for no good reason. Its fun unless its heavy, then it hurts.

 

But yeah so scrolls will be reusable? I don't like this idea...

I think the suggestion was that you get one, use it and that's the end of that one. I'd much rather choose to catch one in the biomes than have random things dropping, though.

 

And sure, if you spend more time on the game things will happen faster. No argument there !

[AnanoKimi]

I think the suggestion was that you get one, use it and that's the end of that one. I'd much rather choose to catch one in the biomes than have random things dropping, though.

 

And sure, if you spend more time on the game things will happen faster. No argument there !

Ok if scrolls become reusable, I will be strongly against it. If they poof after their use then I am ok with this.

[Fiona]

If you sort back through the thread, BSA scrolls were not being suggested as reusable. Maybe there would be some sort of generic use scrolls that could do some BSA stuff. There would mostly be other scrolls that did things that were not really suitable for BSA actions. That would be accompanied by some sort of mana-like bar or counter so you couldn't spam use the spells. TJ has no intention of making BSA dragons obsolete, based on what he said earlier in the thread.

[AnanoKimi]

Thats good to know thought I would still like to see all scrolls get used up on the first try, or at least have some form of counter depending on the ability of said scroll. I don't like the idea of reusable scrolls because well it might make things a tad too easy. The point of this game is some extent of challenge.

[TJ09]

If you read back in the thread, I suggested a counter to re-usable scrolls: an account-wide mana bar.

 

So sure, you wouldn't have to worry about running out of paper-enchanting scrolls, but you'd still have to manage your mana to ensure you don't run out--and possibly wait a while if you do run out.

 

I think that a decision needs to be made on two areas before you can focus on how to get scrolls. These two things can be decided independently.

• Reusable scrolls or consumable?
• Mana bar or unlimited usage?

My opinion is that, if scrolls are reusable, the mana bar is absolutely necessary. I think even if scrolls are consumable, a mana bar (albeit one with a higher limit than the reusable case) would make sense to prevent people from emptying their stockpile of scrolls all at once.

 

As for reusable or not, I think reusable makes more sense from a lore standpoint, given that I don't quite agree with the typical D&D reasoning for single-use.

Edited February 27, 2014 by TJ09

[AnanoKimi]

If you read back in the thread, I suggested a counter to re-usable scrolls: an account-wide mana bar.

 

So sure, you wouldn't have to worry about running out of paper-enchanting scrolls, but you'd still have to manage your mana to ensure you don't run out--and possibly wait a while if you do run out.

 

I think that a decision needs to be made on two areas before you can focus on how to get scrolls. These two things can be decided independently.

• Reusable scrolls or consumable?
• Mana bar or unlimited usage?

My opinion is that, if scrolls are reusable, the mana bar is absolutely necessary. I think even if scrolls are consumable, a mana bar (albeit one with a higher limit than the reusable case) would make sense to prevent people from emptying their stockpile of scrolls all at once.

 

As for reusable or not, I think reusable makes more sense from a lore standpoint, given that I don't quite agree with the typical D&D reasoning for single-use.

Reusable takes some of the fun of collecting the scrolls or taking the time to find them unless like someone else mentioned after 20 uses of x scroll = new scroll.

 

Single use will allow someone to continue obtaining scrolls and give them the motivation to find them to use them. The mana bar (I had seen it before but skimmed by) is a brilliant idea regardless. Each scroll could have a different level of use towards that mana bar.

 

Reusable works just as well but I find it more challenging to have consumable. Though another thing is, if they are reusable, once you collect one, will that be the only one you find? or will you occasionally collect more? I was going to ask something else here but forgot so forgive me if I blurt it out at random at some point.

 

All in all that is all I have for now. I seriously blanked out so anything else from this point is gone, again forgive me if I blurt it out randomly or ask suddenly here.

[BlitzDrake]

I really like this idea. Especially could give reason for the "ascension" status to (some) dragons.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Reusable scrolls or consumable? - I think I'd prefer reusable

Mana bar or unlimited usage? - I like the mana bar idea

 

But how do we find/earn them?

1. Random drops in the biomes?

2. Random drops on the page, like seeds or candy?

3. Accomplish some task?

4. Collect X number of dragons?

 

 

[TJ09]

Reusable takes some of the fun of collecting the scrolls or taking the time to find them unless like someone else mentioned after 20 uses of x scroll = new scroll.

 

Single use will allow someone to continue obtaining scrolls and give them the motivation to find them to use them. The mana bar (I had seen it before but skimmed by) is a brilliant idea regardless. Each scroll could have a different level of use towards that mana bar.

 

Reusable works just as well but I find it more challenging to have consumable. Though another thing is, if they are reusable, once you collect one, will that be the only one you find? or will you occasionally collect more? I was going to ask something else here but forgot so forgive me if I blurt it out at random at some point.

 

All in all that is all I have for now. I seriously blanked out so anything else from this point is gone, again forgive me if I blurt it out randomly or ask suddenly here.

But at what point does it stop being "fun" and start being "tedious?"

 

It might be cute to collect them at first, but I think the general feeling after a while it'll be "ugh, I have to collect another incubate scroll, I'm out" rather than "oh boy, I get to go hunting for scrolls."

 

The discussion of mana bars brought up the option of collecting things to replenish mana as well (if you don't want to wait), so even if you get all of the scrolls, there could still be things to collect.

[AnanoKimi]

But at what point does it stop being "fun" and start being "tedious?"

 

It might be cute to collect them at first, but I think the general feeling after a while it'll be "ugh, I have to collect another incubate scroll, I'm out" rather than "oh boy, I get to go hunting for scrolls."

 

The discussion of mana bars brought up the option of collecting things to replenish mana as well (if you don't want to wait), so even if you get all of the scrolls, there could still be things to collect.

That is true. Eventually it becomes a bit tedious seeing as most people will probably use a scroll as soon as they get it rather than holding off and building up a few. Though I think thats also what makes it just as fun, you learn to manage the scrolls, collect,use them wisely, and eventually get the rhythm of it all enough to make it worth your time. I still see some of the newer people having trouble and complaining so I can see that too. So reusable seems like the better path to avoid confusions, frustrations, and overall unhappiness from newer members or those still getting used to it all.

 

I still like the idea of consumable scrolls much better though. It adds a level of difficulty that users need to learn to manage, something along the lines of egg slots kind of thing. The frustration of having a limited amount of eggs and having to wait to hatch before you can get more, is similar to having to decide if you want to use the scroll now, or save it up until you have more. Hoarding scrolls, managing your mana, and learning to time what to use and when.

 

Reusable scrolls or consumable? - I think I'd prefer reusable

Mana bar or unlimited usage? - I like the mana bar idea

 

But how do we find/earn them?

1. Random drops in the biomes?

2. Random drops on the page, like seeds or candy?

3. Accomplish some task?

4. Collect X number of dragons?

 

What if we found scrolls as we hatched eggs? different breeds/elements of eggs could offer different scrolls that we could use. This would encourage some users to possibly get other breeds and see some use to them.

[TJ09]

The clicking on eggs/hatchlings/dragons option was suggested for consumable scrolls because it's something that many people are doing anyways.

 

Consumable scrolls would necessitate a somewhat-frictionless way of getting them.

[Poofiemus]

I'd say if the spell is consumable, it might be better represented by a bottle of potion, a vial of powder, or a sprig of plant, maybe. Something users would associate with using up. After all, that part really is just that: a representation.

 

If they're permanent, then a scroll with a spell makes more sense; you'd build a library of them. And then yes, you would *absolutely* need the mana bar. (Perhaps we can call it a "reservoir", even if it is represented visually by something bar-like. Just sounds like it fits just a shade better with Cave lore to me.)

 

I'll admit I like the idea of the mana bar regardless of how the spells are handled--it goes a long way to explaining why you can only freeze so many hatchlings or revive so many dead dragons at a time.

 

With that in mind, maybe the best answer is in fact a combination--you collect spells to add to your permanent library, and therefore you can only pick up each scroll or tome once. You cast a spell using the mana in your bar/reservoir. The bar/reservoir will rebuild over time, but you can grab single-use, tradeable items to either fill it more quickly or increase the chance of a spell being successful; I personally think that anything with the latter property should *not* be stackable, by the way.

 

Side note, I personally feel that when it comes to scroll name changes, there should be a relatively long cooldown ("That spell takes a lot of work, and you're too tired to cast it again right now"), and/or take a lot of mana to keep people from spamming it. Changes of identity should have to be carefully considered, in my mind. Don't know if anyone else feels this way though.

[AnanoKimi]

Then that would work for consumables. You can either hold on to them, wait until the right moment and use them wisely, or use themas soon as you get them so as to not wait. The mana bar would prevent scroll hoarders from using all the ones they have at once, and adopting an egg could come with a high chance of getting a scroll stuck to its shell or something.

 

Having them be consumable yet fairly easy to obtain makes it less frustrating. Especially if they can be found through as you said clicking. Though clicking in it of its self is just absolutely boring in my opinion. The other way I could see us obtaining scrolls would be through dragons like Gilded Bloodscale. They popped into mind first because they are intellectual and love to learn. A BSA could be added that grants you a scroll once per 24-48 hours. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any other dragons that could stand out as able to hand out scrolls in that way but it would be fun.

[noxlyx]

Might be an unpopular opinion here but... I don't really see a point in having these scrolls aside from having new BSA's like "Unfreeze" be introduced... but even then can't we just introduce that BSA through a dragon?

 

I mean, what would the in-world or in-game purpose of these scrolls be aside from adding a bit more options for obtaining certain BSA's because at the end of the day... these scrolls will be just as rare/valued as, say, a pink egg or a red egg... it won't make it any easier for someone who is new to use some cool BSA's that they won't have.

 

But if we were going to go with scrolls and if they were to be introduced. I don't see why we should complicate things with mana and what not. Why not do it as a "one use only" kind of deal? And once it's used, it's gone. Then, if we don't choose to use the scroll by a certain day, say 7 days, it poofs as well and becomes something like a dead egg.

 

As far as trading these scrolls go, however? No. Trading in DC already has my head spinning because trade values for each dragon is awkward. Adding scrolls to the mix will screw things up even more. How many coppers/golds/reds/pinks/etc will be equivalent to one scroll?

 

So... I guess what I'm saying is... the system so far for BSA's doing a fine job as is and if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

 

---

 

EDIT

 

As for TJ stating that we'd be able to memorize a scroll after reading it a few times. Would it be in-world possible to say that we dragon collectors are mere humans without powers and the only way we can cast spells is if we're holding a spell scroll? Just a thought.

Edited February 28, 2014 by noxlyx

[CNR4806]

I prefer having scrolls to be reusable.

 

When my end goal is to perform a scroll-exclusive action, anything that stands in the way are just chores no matter how hard you try to make them "fun". So let's do everyone a favor and spare us having to repeat the same chores ad infinitum.

Edited February 28, 2014 by CNR4806

[TJ09]

As for TJ stating that we'd be able to memorize a scroll after reading it a few times. Would it be in-world possible to say that we dragon collectors are mere humans without powers and the only way we can cast spells is if we're holding a spell scroll? Just a thought.

That doesn't really fit my vision for how magic works in the world of DC, in that just about every intelligent creature is capable of wielding magic, and some creatures (sentient or not) may have innate magical abilities.

[RainDear]

If the spell is "unfreeze" I like the idea that 10 freezes earns 1 "unfreeze" whether potion, scroll, or something else. I also like the idea of this one being untransferable and time sensitive (times out and vanishes in a specified period). That would make this ability pretty much immune to abuse. Other spells, if any, could have differing limitations and requirements.

 

Edit: Ok, not time sensitive.

Edited February 28, 2014 by raindear

[TJ09]

When my end goal is to perform a scroll-exclusive action, anything that stands in the way are just chores no matter how hard you try to make them "fun". So let's do everyone a favor and spare us having to repeat the same chores ad infinitum.

It seems you may be making assumptions about things, here.

 

You are discounting the possibility of already having whatever scroll it is you want to use. If that were to happen, then there's nothing "standing in the way"--you have the scroll, and use it.

 

Then, it just comes down to designing the method of gathering in such a way that people generally have the scrolls they need by the time they need them, and don't have to go out of their way to get them.

 

There are options that fit those criteria that have already been pointed out (e.g. raising eggs).

 

Of course, if you make it completely non-challenging, then they might as well be reusable in the first place. That's not the point here, only pointing out that I believe there are ways to do consumable scrolls in a manner that isn't chore-like.

[TJ09]

If the spell is "unfreeze" I like the idea that 10 freezes earns 1 "unfreeze" whether potion, scroll, or something else. I also like the idea of this one being untransferable and time sensitive (times out and vanishes in a specified period). That would make this ability pretty much immune to abuse. Other spells, if any, could have differing limitations and requirements.

If scrolls are consumable, having them "expire" is a good way to prevent stockpiling, but at the same time, why would a scroll expire? Is paper really that fragile that it can't handle having some ancient runes scribbled on it? The DC account "scrolls" seem to be a bit more resilient than that.

[noxlyx]

That doesn't really fit my vision for how magic works in the world of DC, in that just about every intelligent creature is capable of wielding magic, and some creatures (sentient or not) may have innate magical abilities.

Perhaps the humans are capable of magic but not powerful enough to use spells that are specific for the dragons? Therefore require spell-scrolls created by higher magical beings?

 

As for the paper fading that fast, maybe it won't be the paper itself that fades but the magic? It's a weakened spell-scroll that was lost from some... or several... powerful wizards that are arrogant enough to fool around with a dragon stronger than themselves. And because the spell-scroll has been blowing around for quite some time now, it's been loosing its magic?

 

I'm just shooting in the dark right now.

[DragonLady86]

Perhaps the humans are capable of magic but not powerful enough to use spells that are specific for the dragons? Therefore require spell-scrolls created by higher magical beings?

 

Then why can we cast Freeze in the first place? obviously we have some magic abilities.

 

I like the reusable scroll idea myself. With or without the mana bar.

 

If the mana idea is felt to be too complicated then gaining the scrolls for actions we already do is possibly the best route. Freeze x many dragons: get one scroll of unfreeze. (people that don't freeze dragons won't need this scroll anyway) Raise x many dragons get one scroll of ascension. Breed so many get...whatever. Since Unfreeze is the only spell really being discussed as of yet, it's a little difficult to come up with possible examples.

[xeyla]

If scrolls are consumable, having them "expire" is a good way to prevent stockpiling, but at the same time, why would a scroll expire? Is paper really that fragile that it can't handle having some ancient runes scribbled on it? The DC account "scrolls" seem to be a bit more resilient than that.

Well, we keep our "DC scroll" out of the reach of little dragons

Some dragons can get curious and poke their nose where it don't belong, and viola! ripped spell scroll. Although, I propose that happens at random, and not too often.

[Millie_Azure]

This idea is growing on me. Slowly, but surely.

 

I feel, logically, that having scrolls be unlimited use would make the most sense. Unless the scroll itself was spelled to spontaneously combust after reading it, the simple act of reading the scroll wouldn't, logically, destroy it. Even if they were limited use, reading something enough times would eventually lead to memorization, as has been stated before. Perhaps a sort of level system, where you have to find and use so many before you've "memorized" the scroll to use it an unlimited number of times? Though, that does seem a bit on the complicated side... (Maybe not, though, since we already have a hidden counter with SPLASH!...)

 

My above wrench aside, I do support the idea of a mana bar should scrolls be unlimited from the get go. I, personally, don't think we should worry about items to replenish this mana, because I can see people stock-piling these items for mass use. That gets into a whole other discussion about possible inventory limits and such. I think it would be much simpler if this supposed mana bar simply refilled over time, and that was the end of the story. I do think it would be kinda neat, however, if the amount of mana a person had was somehow linked to either the trophy they had or the pure number of dragons they have. Perhaps x amount of mana per dragon with a bonus depending on your trophy level?

Edited February 28, 2014 by Millie_Azure