Spell Scrolls

[rumor33]

There have been various suggestions relating to adding an "inventory" of usable items. It certainly creates a nice opportunity to expand the game by opening a lot of possibilities

 

I think my main concern is that it opens up this catchall for shoving a bunch of random features. No frontrunner for a hatchling incubate BSA? Make it a spell scroll! No one can decide how to do egg freezing? Make it a spell scroll! And so on.

 

That is to say, if spell items become the simplest way to add new mechanics, why make BSAs or other mechanics that have some sort of RP justification when you can just say "lol magic?" If there's no reason not to, why not just replace incubate and influence and such with spell scrolls? Etc.

This is definitely a down side I didn't consider. Personally one of the things I like about BSA's is that they have the potential to really boost the popularity of breeds. IIRC reds were never really that sought after before incubate and would sit in the AP, now they are snapped up and hatchies are trade-able no mater the lineage. If this is implemented I'd really hope it wouldn't effect the likelihood of breeds getting BSAs.

[TJ09]

Actually, to further diversify between scroll things and BSAs...

What if these scroll spells were just, well, scrolls?

 

- Pattern Scrolls: new scroll backgrounds

- Message Scrolls: leave messages describing your scroll, wish list, contact info, whatever

- Plain Scrolls: think the tabs suggestion for further organizing our dragons

- Letter Scrolls: send a message to another user (users must enable receiving messages)

- New Scroll: name change feature (maybe could also display old username for a while?)

 

And so on.

Well that almost completely repurposes this thread; raindear originally proposed spell scrolls as a way to accomplish a certain action--unfreezing--and then it appears to have expanded to other hard-to-place actions as well.

 

I'm not saying that the issue I brought up is insurmountable. Maybe it's just rejecting any possible spell scroll that can be implemented in a different way without stretching logic too much.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

There have been various suggestions relating to adding an "inventory" of usable items. It certainly creates a nice opportunity to expand the game by opening a lot of possibilities

 

I think my main concern is that it opens up this catchall for shoving a bunch of random features. No frontrunner for a hatchling incubate BSA? Make it a spell scroll! No one can decide how to do egg freezing? Make it a spell scroll! And so on.

 

That is to say, if spell items become the simplest way to add new mechanics, why make BSAs or other mechanics that have some sort of RP justification when you can just say "lol magic?" If there's no reason not to, why not just replace incubate and influence and such with spell scrolls? Etc.

That's the exact opposite of my reasoning. Why do the dragons have to be the one to cast the spell? Why can't their owner cast the spell? That's the difference I see.

 

Not to mention that not everyone RPs their dragons. I for one do not, so all the 'you can't justify that because it can't be RPed' argument just irritates me. When I RP, my character is the one casting the spells, in this case it would be ME the owner of the dragon casting the spell. If you have to have a RP justifiable reason, there it is.

 

So I counter your reason with, WHY NOT? If the idea can be made into a BSA, go for it. But when you can't find a way to make it a BSA, and it's still a great idea, make it a Spell Scroll. Gives you the best of BOTH.

[LibbyLishly]

That's the exact opposite of my reasoning. Why do the dragons have to be the one to cast the spell? Why can't their owner cast the spell? That's the difference I see.

 

Not to mention that not everyone RPs their dragons. I for one do not, so all the 'you can't justify that because it can't be RPed' argument just irritates me. When I RP, my character is the one casting the spells, in this case it would be ME the owner of the dragon casting the spell. If you have to have a RP justifiable reason, there it is.

 

So I counter your reason with, WHY NOT? If the idea can be made into a BSA, go for it. But when you can't find a way to make it a BSA, and it's still a great idea, make it a Spell Scroll. Gives you the best of BOTH.

This is pretty close to what I was thinking, too. The reason to keep giving BSAs to dragons is because then you don't have the limitations that spell scrolls would inevitably have (provided there are limits on how many you can hold - plus, the dragon keeps existing after using their spell).

 

To refine what I'm saying (and possibly make it distinct from what Cinnamin Draconna is saying), I'd like to see BSAs that already exist be part of the available actions on a spell scroll, as well as others that have been proposed but haven't been released, and still other actions that have not been able to be logically applied to a BSA.

Edited February 11, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[TJ09]

That's the exact opposite of my reasoning. Why do the dragons have to be the one to cast the spell? Why can't their owner cast the spell? That's the difference I see.

 

Not to mention that not everyone RPs their dragons. I for one do not, so all the 'you can't justify that because it can't be RPed' argument just irritates me. When I RP, my character is the one casting the spells, in this case it would be ME the owner of the dragon casting the spell. If you have to have a RP justifiable reason, there it is.

 

So I counter your reason with, WHY NOT? If the idea can be made into a BSA, go for it. But when you can't find a way to make it a BSA, and it's still a great idea, make it a Spell Scroll. Gives you the best of BOTH.

Lore consistency is always good. In the DC world, both humans and dragons are certainly capable of magic. And to an extent, I agree with you that the player character probably should be able to cast some number of spells--they certainly already do.

 

Your last paragraph basically says exactly what I said in the (non-quoted) post above yours, though. Just maybe a little stronger--BSAs should be preferred to spell scrolls.

[TJ09]

This is pretty close to what I was thinking, too. The reason to keep giving BSAs to dragons is because then you don't have the limitations that spell scrolls would inevitably have (provided there are limits on how many you can hold - plus, the dragon keeps existing after using their spell).

 

To refine what I'm saying (and possibly make it distinct from what Cinnamin Draconna is saying), I'd like to see BSAs that already exist be part of the available actions on a spell scroll, as well as others that have been proposed but haven't been released, and still other actions that have not been able to be logically applied to a BSA.

Maybe, instead of spell scrolls having a quantity (that doesn't quite make sense--if you're reading off of a scroll, won't you eventually memorize it anyways?), you can have a scroll-wide mana bar, that regenerates over time.

 

Thus, once you find a enchant-paper-into-paper-dragon scroll, you can use it as much as you want, provided you have mana. There would be no cooldown on spells, but mana would create an artificial cooldown.

 

And then, of course, that opens up the option of finding mana-restoring items (complicate all the things).

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Well that almost completely repurposes this thread; raindear originally proposed spell scrolls as a way to accomplish a certain action--unfreezing--and then it appears to have expanded to other hard-to-place actions as well.

 

I'm not saying that the issue I brought up is insurmountable. Maybe it's just rejecting any possible spell scroll that can be implemented in a different way without stretching logic too much.

Are both mutually exclusive, though? Could there be both scroll spells and regular scrolls?

[Fuzzbucket]

Are both mutually exclusive, though? Could there be both scroll spells and regular scrolls?

?

 

Regular scrolls ? Do you mean regular BSAs ?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

?

 

Regular scrolls ? Do you mean regular BSAs ?

- Pattern Scrolls: new scroll backgrounds

- Message Scrolls: leave messages describing your scroll, wish list, contact info, whatever

- Plain Scrolls: think the tabs suggestion for further organizing our dragons

- Letter Scrolls: send a message to another user (users must enable receiving messages)

- New Scroll: name change feature (maybe could also display old username for a while?)

 

You have your fancy wizard scrolls over here, and you have your pretty writing parchment over there

Edited February 11, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

 

You have your fancy wizard scrolls over here, and you have your pretty writing parchment over there

Oops. I care SO LITTLE about any of those that I never even noticed them

[626lavaheart]

:U If this is implemented... you should go the extra mile and implement the hoarding idea too TJ. Although that topic keeps dying because there's not much to talk about lol. Just sprites to keep making.

Edited February 11, 2014 by 626lavaheart

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Maybe, instead of spell scrolls having a quantity (that doesn't quite make sense--if you're reading off of a scroll, won't you eventually memorize it anyways?), you can have a scroll-wide mana bar, that regenerates over time.

 

Thus, once you find a enchant-paper-into-paper-dragon scroll, you can use it as much as you want, provided you have mana. There would be no cooldown on spells, but mana would create an artificial cooldown.

 

And then, of course, that opens up the option of finding mana-restoring items (complicate all the things).

Have you never played Dungeons & Dragons (any version)? Spells from scrolls can NEVER be memorized, that's an 'in game' mechanic. Plus making the scroll paper is a specialized skill usually limited to alchemists (Players are rarely able to create their own scroll paper in game). Then to top all that off, to actually put a spell on a scroll requires that the magic user be of a higher level than the spell being enscrolled. IIRC, it takes a 4th lvl magic user to make a 1st lvl scroll, plus one additional mage lvl for every spell lvl thereafter.

 

Whatever tho... what I'm trying to get across is that limiting the number of scrolls is easily RP justified.

 

And while I agree that a BSA should be tried first, there aren't really that many dragons that can be used for a BSA. It seems like every time somebody comes up with something that 'might' work, half a dozen folk come along behind to shut them down with RP reasons for why it won't work.. or the artist says NO, my dragon couldn't do that. So to me, for ideas that should be added anyway, Spell Scrolls would solve those problems.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[Ashywolf]

That is to say, if spell items become the simplest way to add new mechanics, why make BSAs or other mechanics that have some sort of RP justification when you can just say "lol magic?" If there's no reason not to, why not just replace incubate and influence and such with spell scrolls? Etc.

Just putting it out there, but there is the option of scrolls of existing BSAs that serve as backup when your dragons are on recharge. Of course, perhaps the scrolls have a lower chance of working. A fail chance, perhaps.

 

Makes it possibly easier for newer users? Without a horde of reds, pinks and magis its quite hard to get through DC (of course, everyone plays differently etc but let's not get into that).

Edited February 12, 2014 by Ashywolf

[cyradis4]

Maybe, instead of spell scrolls having a quantity (that doesn't quite make sense--if you're reading off of a scroll, won't you eventually memorize it anyways?), you can have a scroll-wide mana bar, that regenerates over time.

 

Thus, once you find a enchant-paper-into-paper-dragon scroll, you can use it as much as you want, provided you have mana. There would be no cooldown on spells, but mana would create an artificial cooldown.

 

And then, of course, that opens up the option of finding mana-restoring items (complicate all the things).

*huggles hoard of red dragons, is 100 enough? NEVAR!*

 

Now, to the topic I quoted....

 

I like the idea, but how would the "mana" be regenerated? If it was via scrolls caught in the biomes, then the people with slow internet would be at a distinct disadvantage. And having it be by refreshing a biome opens all sorts of potential abuses.

 

How about, just as an idea to get the brainstorming going, having it linked to the number of eggs picked up from the biomes? The mana would stay, even if you later dumped the egg to the AP.

 

Or, you could have some other game that let you build up mana, or something.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[TJ09]

Have you never played Dungeons & Dragons (any version)? Spells from scrolls can NEVER be memorized, that's an 'in game' mechanic. Plus making the scroll paper is a specialized skill usually limited to alchemists (Players are rarely able to create their own scroll paper in game). Then to top all that off, to actually put a spell on a scroll requires that the magic user be of a higher level than the spell being enscrolled. IIRC, it takes a 4th lvl magic user to make a 1st lvl scroll, plus one additional mage lvl for every spell lvl thereafter.

DC isn't tied to the D&D universe, though. Even if you have to use scrolls in D&D, I think DC lore would be better off without that mechanic, so long as there's a sufficient replacement.

 

I've put a bit of thought into how magic would work in DC-land; maybe I can write something up somewhere.

[birdzgoboom]

Maybe, instead of spell scrolls having a quantity (that doesn't quite make sense--if you're reading off of a scroll, won't you eventually memorize it anyways?), you can have a scroll-wide mana bar, that regenerates over time.

 

Thus, once you find a enchant-paper-into-paper-dragon scroll, you can use it as much as you want, provided you have mana. There would be no cooldown on spells, but mana would create an artificial cooldown.

 

And then, of course, that opens up the option of finding mana-restoring items (complicate all the things).

As another idea to restore 'mana,' how about it can be regenerated over a certain amount of time a user is online? Similar to the Snow Wars event, and RPG games (the first one that comes to my mind is Final Fantasy 12. You restore MP as you run around the maps).

And then restorative items could be found as well-- they just wouldn't be totally necessary.

 

Of course, that's just an idea though. I'd rather there be some sort of magic-restoring gauge than a system where I'd have to find the same scrolls over and over... ;;

[RainDear]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

In different games that I have played, I have seen different mechanics:

 

1. The one I was thinking of: You are not necessarily a mage. You find a scroll, for whatever reason you cannot memorize it, when you read it the spell is cast and the scroll vanishes. This one could be a scroll that gave you a choice of spells to cast- if that was what you want to put into the game.

 

2. You are a mage, you find a scroll, you memorize it or copy it into your spellbook, it is part of your repertoire forever. This seems to be the one TJ is referring to. It seems that each spell scroll would be for just one spell, if this were the mechanic that we used here. Then there is the mana gathering mechanic to consider.

[Shadowdrake]

The disappearing scroll one could be justified by the scroll having some inherent extra magic or it including a bundle of materials for a complex spell or something.

 

The other one sounds like it would be collected like a leetle tree.

 

Maybe replenishing thingies pop up like Easter eggs do, except with a longer and/or randomized time?

[xeyla]

I've put a bit of thought into how magic would work in DC-land; maybe I can write something up somewhere.

I would really like to read what you have for this. You could make a new sub-forum titled "Dragon Cave Universe, come read the history!", and write up some topics about the world we live in. Maybe we could have a bigger/more detailed map as well.

 

Just throwing out thoughts

[TJ09]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

In different games that I have played, I have seen different mechanics:

 

1. The one I was thinking of: You are not necessarily a mage. You find a scroll, for whatever reason you cannot memorize it, when you read it the spell is cast and the scroll vanishes. This one could be a scroll that gave you a choice of spells to cast- if that was what you want to put into the game.

 

2. You are a mage, you find a scroll, you memorize it or copy it into your spellbook, it is part of your repertoire forever. This seems to be the one TJ is referring to. It seems that each spell scroll would be for just one spell, if this were the mechanic that we used here. Then there is the mana gathering mechanic to consider.

You could also do both mechanics, if there is a concern that there may be problems with gathering tons of scrolls and spamming them all at once. In such a case, scroll-wide mana limits would be pretty high such that most people wouldn't hit them.

 

That said, your post is prefaced with "this is my opinion," but you don't actually discuss your opinion on the two options you listed?

[RainDear]

You could also do both mechanics, if there is a concern that there may be problems with gathering tons of scrolls and spamming them all at once. In such a case, scroll-wide mana limits would be pretty high such that most people wouldn't hit them.

 

That said, your post is prefaced with "this is my opinion," but you don't actually discuss your opinion on  the two options you listed?

Yeah, I have used "We" and/or "Us" in posts a few times and been called on "trying to speak for others", so I try to make it clear that I do not think anything I post is meant in that way.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2014 by raindear

[HeatherMarie]

Okay, again I don't play other games with spells/scrolls/etc, so.... what the heck is mana and just how much would it restrict us?

 

Mana is something that gets used up when you use a spell-scroll, so you have to restore mana in order to keep using spell-scrolls.... How does it get restored? Is it a time thing?

 

I'd *really* be annoyed if I have to hunt for the spell-scroll for a specific spell, and *then* have to hunt for some mana-restorer in order to *use* the spell-scroll...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Mana is essentially a measure of how much magical power you have. You run out of mana, you can't use magic until you get some mana back. Obviously only TJ knows how it'd be implemented here, but in most games it comes back slowly over time.

[TJ09]

Mana is essentially a measure of how much magical power you have. You run out of mana, you can't use magic until you get some mana back. Obviously only TJ knows how it'd be implemented here, but in most games it comes back slowly over time.

I thought I mentioned when I suggested a mana system that it'd restore over time with the possibility of mana-restoring items to bypass waiting.

[RMMC]

Freezing eggs: does this get rid of the "what happens to the hatchling inside" argument? I do want to collect eggs, but not sure how the spell would implement this.

How about the spell transports the hatchling inside immediately to the AP and makes the shell that remains behind unbreakable? It could be limited to eggs that are still intact only.

 

All the ideas sound really interesting to me. The mana bit sounds fair; you get as much as you're willing to put into the site. But having a few scrolls that have something extraordinary popping up here and there unexpectedly would be a nice supplement, but while having an unlimited shelf life, should be a one time use to prevent abuse.

 

Or the ones designed to help new players who haven't gotten the particular BSA dragon yet, the scroll they find is a strict one time use and does a Mission Impossible ('this scroll will self-destruct in 5 seconds') after it's used.