Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[Guillotine]

I'd like to see new prize dragons so long as the older ones were still being handed out in some way (even if it's "just" that they get demoted to HMs rather than 1st/2nd/3rd place prizes). Prize populations are far too small (and at current rates of release will continue to be too small) to discontinue the distribution of any breed entirely.

[Marrionetta]

I'd like to see new prize dragons so long as the older ones were still being handed out in some way (even if it's "just" that they get demoted to HMs rather than 1st/2nd/3rd place prizes). Prize populations are far too small (and at current rates of release will continue to be too small) to discontinue the distribution of any breed entirely.

Ok. This is cool.

[lorimmel]

I do think that the scarcity is a major problem, though, and would hate to see super-rares Released in the Cave.

 

Many players cannot afford zippy new puters and/or fast connections and may never be able to catch even a somewhat more generally desirable dragon, never mind a Gold, with an ultra-rare being forever beyond their reach.

 

Probably most of the people here would have no chance at the ultra-rares, ever, just like the low-gen Prize situation, adding to the current problem.

 

We need to spread the love, not add to what the 'haves' can get, while the have-nots, shut out, wander away from the game in sorrow...

Well, I don't have a super-new zippy computer. My computer is actually 5 years old.

I don't have a super connection. I have a radio connection that slows down terribly when it's foggy or when it rains. I live on a mountain slope and cannot hope for cable connection anytime soon.

I don't have super-fast teenage reflexes. I'm 36.

I don't have lots of free time. I work everyday, sometimes even on weekends. My only advantage is that I work at home.

 

And yet, I AM ABLE TO CATCH MY CB METALS MYSELF. If I put some effort into it, I can get one per day.

 

And I think most of us joined this game for the rares, and it's rares that keep us here. More rares is more trading that doesn't focus on prizes, prizes and more prizes. I don't think not releasing rares would do any good to the "have-nots" problem. Quite the opposite, it would create more opportunities for trading and swapping. And I think the game without rares is equally boring for "haves" and "have-nots". No incentive, no goals, no plans, no competition. Where's the fun?

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, I don't have a super-new zippy computer. My computer is actually 5 years old.

I don't have a super connection. I have a radio connection that slows down terribly when it's foggy or when it rains. I live on a mountain slope and cannot hope for cable connection anytime soon.

I don't have super-fast teenage reflexes. I'm 36.

I don't have lots of free time. I work everyday, sometimes even on weekends. My only advantage is that I work at home.

 

And yet, I AM ABLE TO CATCH MY CB METALS MYSELF. If I put some effort into it, I can get one per day.

 

And I think most of us joined this game for the rares, and it's rares that keep us here. More rares is more trading that doesn't focus on prizes, prizes and more prizes. I don't think not releasing rares would do any good to the "have-nots" problem. Quite the opposite, it would create more opportunities for trading and swapping. And I think the game without rares is equally boring for "haves" and "have-nots". No incentive, no goals, no plans, no competition. Where's the fun?

This except that I am 69, my pooter is 8 years old; there are trees with leaves between me and my radio transmitter and I have never caught a CB gold. Oh and I did NOT join this game for the rares; I joined to have fun.

 

(And I am not a winner - you were, I think ?)

 

But yes.

[Naruhina_94]

Rares make this game fun for those that already have all the commons <3

Lorimmel may I quote your post here?

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=8025766

 

Some people were talking that relasing Prizes as rares would be useless (NOT in my opinion, obviously) and I agree so much with your answer that I would like to post it even there

Edited February 20, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Fuzzbucket]

Rares make this game fun for those that already have all the commons <3

I have all the commons, and many rares. It is still fun. It always will be,I hope.

[Naruhina_94]

I have all the commons, and many rares. It is still fun. It always will be,I hope.

Of course it is! We love to collect everything. Commons and rares, lineage and CB, since this is a great game where nobody has an advantage over other users.

Honestly, sometimes I read some comments that seem to suggest to others how to play. I think that no one should tell you "how to play", with words like "You don't need that dragon, I decide this for yourself. Why do you want to collect it ?"

You might see it as a bullying in a collectionable game, where people like to collect

I do not mean anyone in particular, that's just my opinion

Edited February 20, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[lorimmel]

@Naruhina_94

Yes of course, you can quote it wherever you like. I like the idea of paler prize recolors released in cave, because it would allow for many interesting "quasi-checkers". I don't like the idea of identical tinsel and shimmer sprites released in cave, because I would feel it is unfair to the winners (me included). But I think it doesn't matter at this point because Marrionetta will not approve.

But we do need more in-cave rares, and we don't need more "new-prize raffle-only" rares. That's what I think

 

@fuzzbucket

I couldn't catch metals 2-3 years ago. Not a single one. It changed in the last 12 months. Maybe you should give it one more try? It has become MUCH easier for me. Now all it takes on my part is patience, and not getting discouraged by a few fails in a row Statistically I can pin down one in 3-4 metals that I see

And yes hahaha trees These slow down my connection too But I like them

Yes, I'm the owner of Epica, got her from the tree decorating contest.

[Naruhina_94]

@Naruhina_94

Yes of course, you can quote it wherever you like. I like the idea of paler prize recolors released in cave, because it would allow for many interesting "quasi-checkers". I don't like the idea of identical tinsel and shimmer sprites released in cave, because I would feel it is unfair to the winners (me included). But I think it doesn't matter at this point because Marrionetta will not approve.

But we do need more in-cave rares, and we don't need more "new-prize raffle-only" rares. That's what I think

 

@fuzzbucket

I couldn't catch metals 2-3 years ago. Not a single one. It changed in the last 12 months. Maybe you should give it one more try? It has become MUCH easier for me. Now all it takes on my part is patience, and not getting discouraged by a few fails in a row Statistically I can pin down one in 3-4 metals that I see

And yes hahaha trees These slow down my connection too But I like them

Yes, I'm the owner of Epica, got her from the tree decorating contest.

We are looking for some compromises that could let you,the other winners and the artsits approve this, by making easy to distinguish the two types of shimmers (Prizes and Relased).

The major issue that I see with this suggest "no new prize breeds" is how much in 6-10 years people will like to see the same prizes. In my opinion they could feel bad because their Prize is not anymore a "never seen before dragon", maybe they would like to see something new, more "modern". Something that is not been traded even before that they win it.

I wouldn't see so exclusive a CB bronze tinsel after 10 years of CB prize bronze tinsel...

[AnanoKimi]

I'm reading a lot of the points made within the last page of this thread.

 

recolors are... Okay i guess but really it kinda irks me that so many people are in all truth whining about "I want a shiny too! why dont I get a CB shint, Thats not fair!!" Just like someone there said:

 

tbh, all i see on this plee is people upset at not winning the raffle. i get it, i'm bummed i didn't win either. but not everyone wins and this entilitement that society seems to feel about fairness and "everyone gets a ribbon for participation" is bullshanks.

 

not everyong should ge a CB prize dragon, just like not everyone in the olympics gets a gold metal.

 

to be blunt, i think that the tinsels and shimmers shoudl be replaced next year with a new breed all together, and these 2 prizes moved to HM status to perserve the breeding ratios.

 

and I kinda agree with this. This mentality that everyone is entitled to something and if its not exactly the same as everyone else then is sucks no matter what variation you get is bs. Before this raffle I had never won raffle within this game, I have never owned CB metals, and I was extremely happy to catch shimmers, tinsels, golds, and silvers as messy, high gen, possibly inbred eggs. I was satisfied with that, it really made me happy to own one even if it wasn't cave born. I never whined or complained about it, I got an opportunity at one regardless of its generation and thats what mattered. So many people breeding 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, etc, gen dragons, why does it HAVE to be CB?

 

I see mainly spoil sports. Some suggestions are ok I guess but it really strips away the title of prize dragons from these dragons. as someone else in that same thread said:

 

QUOTE (KageSora @ Feb 13 2014 @ 09:10 AM Report Post)

If the eggs were going to become as rare as a waterhorse egg at an unspecified later date then that should have been made clear from the beginning so that the 1st-3rd place winners could make an informed decision about if they wanted a limited release of a future cave egg or if they wanted a never-obtainable-in-the-cave CB Hybrid or Holiday dragon. As it is, the prize winners were never made aware of that possibility being on the table. That is what is disingenuous if the eggs are released in the cave. I fully agree.   If I were to win and knew for a fact that the prize I won would eventually be fairly easily obtainable at a later date (or, hell, just obtainable and not exclusive to being a prize), I would instead opt for an HM award that will never be obtainable (like a CB hybrid) since that would retain the value as by their nature the hybrids will never really be released to the cave   or   It is disingenuous to tell a player that they got first place --they get one of 10 never-before-seen dragons. Touting and implying that this prize is SUPER SPECIAL because there are only 10 of them this year. Giving them the option of picking the 4th place runner up prize, which is obviously not as SUPER SPECIAL as the top prize-- and then going "LOLNEVERMIND" and making that first place prize as common as dirt.   I agree with these. If I was told that my tinsel was not going to be a special prize, that it would be released into the cave later for everyone and anyone to get, I would have gotten a CB Hellhorse. CB Hellhorse is awsome and its special because its a hybrid with no parents, how much cooler is that? I'm not trying to come off as selfish seeing as I won and 98% of you are thinking "Shes just saying all this so her dragon will remain rare and we never get anything nice." No. I believe in everyone getting something nice. Hell I constantly gift Shimmers, tinsels, golds, silvers, and GW because I know many new and some seasoned players dont have one, and to the seasoned ones I'll apologize because its not a low gen, not a CB, but its still a metal, and at least they appreciate it.   What I DO agree on is improving breeding rations at least a little bit. I would LOVE to breed my tinsel and toss his babies left and right for everyone to have.

[King_Max_Cat]

^^^ agreed.

So many people breeding 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, etc, gen dragons, why does it HAVE to be CB?

Yes! Improving the breeding ratios leads to more shinies for everyone, thus hopefully calming all the people who really want the sprites, and that's that. CB's aren't the end-all-be-all. I wasn't here for many Valentine's events; yet you don't see me whining about only being able to get 2G valentines. That's because I'm just happy to get the sprites and the lineage of 2G is good enough (especially seeing as getting better than 2G would be not possible unless I win another raffle....). So I agree; what's wrong with 2Gs? or 3rd gens?

[cyradis4]

There is already a suggestion to improve the breeding rates, with the focus on CBs and 2nd gens. And while doing that would likely greatly improve the problems revolving around 2nd gens, it wouldn't solve the problem of CB Tinsels and CB Shimmers going extinct.

 

Of the 20 CB Tinsels, 10 are too young to draw any conclusions. Of the remaining 10, the original 5 are all still with us and breeding. The 2nd set of 5 might as well not exist as far as anyone not their owners are concerned. And even of the new set of 10, only 4 so far have progeny. But it really is too soon to tell how they will work out.

 

So while giving CBs a major breeding boost will start easing the problem in the short term and will fix half of the problem in the long term, the 2nd half of the long term problem won't be affected by it:

With time, users will eventually leave DC.

In time, if the CB Prize population stays so small in comparision to the userbase, the various prize colors WILL go extinct. Like CB Hollies almost did, and they had a far larger population than the CB Prizes have now.

 

So the 2nd half of the long term solution has to be to add a lot of new blood to the game. Hence this suggestion.

 

And King_Max_Cat, you are not reading the threads carefully:

Most people would be perfectly happy with 2nd gens.

But guess what? Only a miniscule number of people can get 2nd gens.

Which is the problem.

There is no "one thing fixed everything" solution and most solutions work best in combination, but TJ wanted the different ideas broken down so that's what they were.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[hazeh]

Promote to HM status, add multiclutching + increased prize breeding ratios seems like a logical way to both keep the remaining CB pool more or less the same without diluting it by a large amount every year.

The Hollies managed to come back after they were added to HM status, and that was only with once-a-year breeding for them.

[Stromboli]

I don't like the idea of never having a new prize breed. They're cool, and I'd like to see a new breed eventually.

I'd rather that we keep a prize breed for a few years, then eventually rotate them out to become HM prizes when a new breed is added. But definitely wait quite a while before retiring a breed from the actual "prize" position.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The thing is, if you add new Prizes each year... even with HMs the number of Old Prizes being added is going to take a drastic nose dive from "terribly bad" to "super terribly bad." There were incredibly small amounts of HMs given out this year compared to normal prizes. Some of the people who actually won prizes chose things like Hollies and Alts instead. Add all that to the fact that you might very well soon be squishing half a dozen Prize breeds, all in three colors, into 30 HM slots... I predict you'd not see more than two of each Prize in each color added a year. :/

 

And even if HM numbers were drastically increased, even if the population continued to flourish--you're adding yet more beautiful exclusives into a game about collecting through your own effort, a game where you shouldn't even have to go to the forums, much less have to go there and pray you can get a trade with a very small specific group of players so you can get a low gen of a pairing you fancy. That's lame on many levels.

 

So, down with more exclusives! Add more beauties EVERYONE can collect instead. I don't think the fact that some prize winners found their super exclusives boring because they'd been seen before is enough to justify hurting the availability of new low gen lines or adding more hateful exclusives to the game. Personally I'd be thrilled to win a Silver Shimmer even if 10% of players had them, something which will almost certainly never happen--it might not be new or in that scenario even super uncommon, but it's still a gorgeous dragon that I can now work with as I please while many others can't.

 

 

[Guillotine]

Honestly I'd greatly prefer having Prizes released into the cave as a rare after four or so years and the ones given out as prizes given some sort of visual marker of their status (i.e. a special border in the lineage page, name colored differently/given a "prize" marker, ect.), but demoting them to HM is the only compromise I can think of to allow new Prizes while keeping the older from vanishing. Note that with making them HMs there would need to be longer time periods between new Prize releases to prevent the problem you mentioned.

 

Granted, the number of HMs would also need to increase and that would probably require TJ use more automation for distributing the dragons... but I don't see the problem with having the "You won!" page set up so that you can enter the information you want and have it automatically generate your dragon on your scroll at that time. Maybe it already works that way, but... well, the downtime between announcement and distribution makes me doubt it's automated to that extent.

 

V And YES, better breeding, at least for CBs, is a MUST for this to work.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Guillotine

[Syphoneira]

(Note - I grew up in the age of typewriters and still use capital letters as emphasis, not to 'shout' or to show anger - I'm not, by the way, angry, lol, just trying to elucidate my viewpoint. )

 

ROFLMAO

 

Am I mistaken or were the original Prize winners to receive a never-before-seen dragon that was NOT promised to be a 'money-maker' that would 'never drop in astronomical, unheard-of value', with 2nd gen offspring NOT guaranteed to be so far beyond the 'value' of anything else that no single other dragon available in the Cave or through breeding could ever remotely approach it, NOT promised to be a 'forever exclusive' ONLY to the original winners who were NOT told to think of these sprites as ONLY 'theirs'?

 

If I was mistaken, then those winning after the originals should be the ones feeling badly about having won 'their' sprites, something I've actually seen someone referring to the CB Prize sprites as.

 

Everyone having the CBs has/had/will have had an opportunity to make fabulous trades - but I don't recall having heard anything about their having been given a permanent contract to always and forever be able to get 'top dollar so far above everything else as to be mind-boggling and impossible for most' for all 2nd-gen offspring in perpetuity at the expense of the rest of the Cave, who are supposed to not be able to get 2nd/3rd gens unless extremely fortunate and gifted or able to get on a very limited and slow-moving supply of list space AND nearly always 'pay' a ton of the next most valuable dragons in the Cave.

 

The CBs (not all low-gens) were made exclusive to winners - but the DC community, being a family site, consists of a group of collectors, typically people who came here to collect/breed/gift/trade for wanted pet dragons, not to play the stock market or 'get rich quick', although it's nice to be able to offer for trade something that will get you dragons you want or need, which probably most people used to be able to do at some point, even if they were gifted their producing breeders.

 

But some owners are actually concerned that they might eventually get smaller mountains of Golds offered if a relatively tiny amount of more 2nd gens were gradually to become available among however many 10s of thousands of members who would still have none or few and still would want as many as they could get of all different CB dragons and of various pairings?

 

Yet the owners would probably make more overall if there were enough CBs (and low-gens) producing on a weekly basis and being traded for a couple of Golds or whatever, than many are making now, even with the results of very few breedings receiving fabulous sums...

 

At least some CB/low gen owners would like to see their dragons producing Prize eggs regularly, and at least some would be spreading the love, if they could.

 

 

Some people may have joined 'for the rares' but a lot of us didn't: we came on here, lured in by the prospect of 'saving' and raising 'baby dragons' on computers which are not 'competitive catcher' material, and without the killer competitive instinct some have.

 

There are lots of competitive games that we didn't want to play, but those who like competition could, and the overall tenor of DC is anything BUT speedy.

 

Many of us just wanted to collect and raise dragons, maybe breed lineages, enjoy the community, and we usually wound up coming here for the long term.

 

We didn't come here to play the stock market or to not be able to catch/trade for things - or to be insulted by being termed 'whiners' for pointing out a gross and growing disparity ruining some of the most important aspects of the game we joined.

 

 

Those who have or are on lists for low-gens may feel that it's possible to get on lists and tough out the lengthy wait, because 'over time, anyone can catch multiple Golds to get on one' - if one ever opens, lol.

 

But what may be 'too easy' for some with better systems may be darned near impossible for those with disabilities/slower systems and greater distance (possibly across the world) from the DC server source.

 

Faster people wanting more difficulty and challenge could always achieve this by downgrading their connection speed and getting an older computer - yet some of these seemingly expect the larger group of people on the other end to struggle even more, often without success, to suit the relative few who like things harder?

 

DC is a family site, with all ages and conditions of people forming the community; we're all in this together, and it would behoove us to try to work things out so that large groups of people are not left out in the cold.

 

 

I very much doubt that most people were expecting to win CBs, so not sure why some seem to think this - the odds are so obviously against it, and I think many of us were happy for those who won.

 

But we did anticipate a steadily growing pool of not-overly-long-gen Prize dragon offspring which the community in turn could obtain which would also make nice gifts/trades that people would be happy to get - not because they're impossible to get, but because those people could use that pairing and/or that line and wanted that particular dragon for itself and to be able to make welcome gifts/trades in their turn.

 

But now, anything over 4th-gen is no good, because even they produce 5th gens, which make 6th gens, which are considered worthless by many and produce 7th gens, which are 'beyond the pale' - even if the line looks nice on the lineage page.

 

The emphasis on Prize trade values affects the whole site, possibly in currently unnoticed ways for even those who don't care about lineages or trading, because the whole bent, language, reference, framing of the site is becoming that of the stock market, rather than that of DC...

 

 

I'm fortunate enough to know some truly wonderful people who've shared babies from theirs with me - but many aren't, simply because there aren't enough 'decent ones' being bred to go around, while the ones they can get are 'devalued', so that they're effectively shut out of breeding, gifting and trading dragons considered more desirable.

 

If there wasn't such a scarcity situation, more people wouldn't be shut out of the game in so many areas by this, but they are, and I find it hard to enjoy a situation in which so many are made unhappy and hopeless in a game with a lot of the fun draining out of it, while DC warps into a mirror of a RL in which only a small percentage increasingly gains while everyone else falls behind.

 

 

And as in RL, this is a situation not so much created by the players but by a mistaken policy which has altered the society into something dysfunctional and which desperately needs some form of correction which does NOT involve simply preventing others from ever getting what they can't get now.

 

 

*applauds angelicdragonpuppy's post above mine, but agree with Stomboli that new Prize sprites would be nice - IF AND WHEN there are more of the older ones and they're breeding decently*

[Marrionetta]

Promote to HM status, add multiclutching + increased prize breeding ratios seems like a logical way to both keep the remaining CB pool more or less the same without diluting it by a large amount every year.

The Hollies managed to come back after they were added to HM status, and that was only with once-a-year breeding for them.

1/2 prize breed spriter stamp of approval for the Hazeh five year plan.

[AnanoKimi]

Promote to HM status, add multiclutching + increased prize breeding ratios seems like a logical way to both keep the remaining CB pool more or less the same without diluting it by a large amount every year.

The Hollies managed to come back after they were added to HM status, and that was only with once-a-year breeding for them.

This still lets them kinda keep the Prize title so I approve as well. Letting them be HM could vastly improve their abundance and if breeding is boosted for them both in the CB and second gen then they could spread just a tad easier.

 

I still see this whole "If their not CB or 2nd Gen their worthless" mentality as complete bs because its everyone that thinks this way that makes the game less fun. It makes it seem like so long as its not 2nd gen or CB really the shiny little pretty is worthless.

 

Like Syphoneria said, anything over 4th gen is worthless and that to me is kinda sad and it always hindered me from the game. Other people always made it difficult for me to get everything. When I finally got a tinsel, or a shimmer, I planned to breed a baby and hopefully get my hands on a Gold or silver, or something nice like a paper, cheese, chicken, or dino. When I start looking at all the trade offers posted on the threads:

 

4th gen checker

2nd gen tinsel/shimmer x this

3rd gen stair

4th gen spiral

2nd gen any mate

etc

etc

 

I looked at my poor little 7th gen or higher babies and saw how unwanted they where. Why though? It was still a Gold tinsel to me. If I had CB metals I would have given one away for a tinsel or shimmer because they where special regardless of generation, its a freaking prize. Everyone gets so obsessed with "It HAS to be this way or its the highway" that they hinder the fun for others. We get so specific, so nit picky, and when we get nit picky we get whiny, and when we get whiny, we see unfairness everywhere because we cant get what we want, and when we get whiny we make games like this one less fun.

 

I don't care about 'market value' of a tinsel. I never planned on using my 2nd gens for my own gain. Personally, I would probably turn down anyone who said "I can get you CB metals" I would much rather gift to a newbie, to senior members without nice shinies, etc than to lineage obsessed people. My only problem with this is how it is viewd in terms of what it is, a prize, a limited, never before, not normally obtainable dragon. Thats my issue, I don't want something that is supposed to be special to be turned to something common and easy to get. It would make our luck, our efforts, our excitement to get them kinda worthless.

 

For example, if nintendo had a contest where you go to a game stop for a month straight with.... your pokemon y game. You have to go online and every time you do it registers you friend code and every day you do its like a raffle ticket in a pool. The prize? An exclusive pokemon never before seen, not obtainable through normal game play. You are excited, if you win, it will be a special pokemon no one else will have with a basically hacked move set and special item.

 

You religiously go every day. Your entries pile up and soon the time arrives where the winners are called out. Congratulations!! you have won! enter this code and get your exclusive pokemon! You run down to your game store and do as instructed and poof, you have a special never before seen pokemon, a prize for your luck and effort. You are excited, you show off to your friends and all is good with the world.

 

A week later nintendo announces that the very same pokemon you got, with the exact same move set and special item, your 'exclusive' pokemon will be released nation and world wide for everyone to have. Wouldn't you be disappointed? All those days, weeks, that month of effort, of waiting, of anticipation, just to have the very thing that made it special be given out like premier balls. To everyone and anyone. Even if it was a year down the line, two years. Two years ago you had to stand in a game stop to get that pokemon why do others get to simply just nab it out of the air effortlessly. That is how I would feel if tinsels where made Cave Available. HM status is nice because well its still those lucky enough to win who can get one, it would still be a prize. but not cave status. Cave status makes the point of prizes moot.

[whitebaron]

You still dont get the reason why we want low gens..

 

Its basically the only thing that keeps us here - lineage building. I can get any sprite available in the cave easily. Chances are, if it drops in the cave and I like it, that I already have multiples of them. So whats left? Hoarding my favorites. Those are royal crimsons. Have close to 300. Building lineages. You need, you know, low gens to decide which lineage results. And thats the problem. I CAN get a cb prize owner anything they want, but I can't find one available except for people I am already friends with - and thats sad/bad.

[TCA]

Yeah, I agree that if new prizes are released, and the old ones don't continue to be handed out, HM status would be a great idea.

[DarkEternity]

The issue with that mindset is:

a) Nintendo's games are always hacked so sooner or later someone's going to end up with that supposedly rare moveset - everyone knows it - so ALL value is based on legality and THAT proof of that Pokemon's legality

Even if hacking doesn't exist, the cloning glitch has existed in every generation since RBY and still exists in X and Y allowing everyone to reproduce the thing.

c) Even if you have an ultra rare with an awesome moveset, that won't guarantee it getting banned because of its tier competitive play or tourneys or flagged as a hack (always funny when legitimate pokemon get banned - shiny jirachi (?)) because there are rules in place to prevent exploitation happening

d) Almost every event pokemon in gen 5 and below were uploaded to an internet site so people can insert them for redistribution

e) The babies of your ultra rare Pokemon will either be non-existent (due to legendary pokes being unbreedable) or basically indistinguishable from a regular Pokemon - if you trade that Pokemon off it is gone, it does not guarantee you rares for the rest of your life.

Edited February 21, 2014 by DarkEternity

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Making Prizes available in cave as rares would hardly allow people to "nab it out of the air effortlessly." A lot more effort and patience goes into catching CB Metals than into completing any of the raffle entry games. Even if the biggest change suggested happens (the in cave release) they will never be either common or easy to get... unless you consider CB Metals as such.

 

Also, Pokemon already does do the "get super rare thing now, allow people to get it again later" thing. I got my first event Celebi a few years back, via going to the store and doing the snazzy Zoroark event (the Zorua was still the best part of it). Now everyone who downloads the poke bank thing (from the convenience of their homes, usually) can get one. Not a big deal, really--my original one is still awesome and special to me. Also, unlike with Pokemon, having a rare one doesn't give you complete control over all Pokemon trades (because they can't breed) and doesn't make you pretty much a celebrity among other players (because your success isn't as public). So it's not really comparable. A few years gap between an original release and an in cave release on DC still gives you way more from it than everyone else does who gets them later.

 

Regarding lineages: I've been playing the game since July 2008. About five and a half years. I got all the basic sprites ages ago, and just collecting them over and over and over again would've probably left me extremely bored with the game. So I turned to collecting lineages, and it's kept my interest strongly for quite a few years now. It's a basic math fact that there will be more high gens than low gens, so low gens are rarer and, yes, worth more to me than the dime-a-dozen messy high gens that represent little to no thought or effort on the breeder's part. When that's considered, it's pretty easy to guess why a lot of older players wouldn't want to trade unbreedables like cheeses--which require time and effort to get--for high gen metals and prizes, which require two seconds of touching the breed button to get and are owned by almost anyone. Now, if you wanted the latter, the high gen metals and such, you could find them for free or close to it pretty easily if you just asked around.

 

Accordingly I find my lineage liking quite justified, as do I find my desire to work with low gen Prizes. And, mind you, it's not that higher ones are immediately "bad;" nothing's as thrilling as finding a high gen compliment to a dragon I already own. But when it comes to Prizes, there are so few and even fewer in the patterns I want that it's all but impossible to do as I will with higher gens. Like, I want a Silver Shimmer x Sunsong checker. I don't think a single one exists. Even if they did, I'm willing to guess a mate for it doesn't exist. Accordingly, my only options to get that lineage that I'd find gorgeous are to get a low gen and start it myself, because I'm probably one of the few who will try that specific lineage and anything beyond even 3g is probably going to be impossible... again because Prizes are just too rare. I can't just settle for a 4g or 5g Silver Shimmer x Sunsong checker instead of a 2g one if no such lineage exists, now can I? OTL

 

And yes, it's been brought up time and again that people can focus on other lineages than those involving prizes, and it sure seems like most of the people who want more Prizes do do that. However, my enjoyment of building lineages with other things doesn't mean I'm just going to be cheerful about the inability to build more stuff with Prizes, which are very pretty sprites. I like my games when hard work pays off everything, which isn't the case with DC now--not that it's ever been 100%, with Holidays and all, but since Prizes are an ever-present beauty that breeds all year long the annoyance of not being able to work with them is definitely greater. Bummer that I can't make lines with a CB Holly, sure, but at least I only have one missed generation and pairing a year to sniffle over.

 

Um... to get back to the main point: Prizes in CB and low gen form are ultra exceedingly overly rare atm, I think they could stand to be a fair bit more available without hurting their rarity / special status appreciably. To be honest I wish they'd just been released as normal dragons to begin with, and the raffle worked more like giving multiple HM prizes based on what spot you placed in... but that's wishful thinking now.

Edited February 21, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[DarkEternity]

I think it's worth mentioning that Dragcave isn't Pokemon. Whilst it is enjoyable, there is no battling, no competitive battling, no RPG, no collecting of functional items, no movesets, no moves to pass on, no IVs to breed for, no EVs to train for, no alternative colours to hunt for, no natures to hunt for, no legendaries to battle for and subsequently catch, no interaction with the dragons, no happiness, no 'world' to explore save the page and AP and no alternate methods of distribution such as starter giving, Dream World, Safari Zone, releases of rares other than holidays via distributions, no plot to follow, no spin off games, no nuzlocke, no battle frontier, no E4, no gym leaders, no badges (or functional rewards for achievements save the trophies), no abilities, no weather, no real and tedious grinding which some people would dislike and others would play for and so on and so forth than for people to collect and breed lineages with dragons they've traded for or caught.

 

Pokemon's INBUILT trading system consists of some 700+ monsters and a wide variety of exclusives including some ten or twenty legendaries - some which are given out in-game and others which are distributed EN MASS across entire countries and mystery gifts.

 

Value is given by IVs, EVs, Shininess, ribbons, the date of the event, name/moveset/abilities/version exclusivity- all things the average player can actually grind for, event Pokemon which people can simply wait for - each region gets different events meaning that individuals are forced to trade with others and each individual is equipped with trading fodder so long as they have access to wifi. Differing abilities and Pokemon also come from different versions of the game, which again shares the trading advantage rather than centralising it in a single or few individuals.

 

Dragoncave's FORUM BASED, EXTERNAL trading system is currently consisting basically of golds, silvers, some coppers, some NDs and mostly based upon low gen prize dragons.

Edited February 21, 2014 by DarkEternity

[AnanoKimi]

It was an example in situation not mechanics. I know all too well the difference in game mechanics, trade values, IV's, EV's, etc etc. I never said "Pokemon is like DC" or "DC is like Pokemon"

 

The situation if you think of it is similar. Something that is exclusive and that is meant to be a prize. Something you either had to put effort towards or had to be lucky enough to get, something that is supposed to be special and exclusive is given away to people had had to put in no effort or people who had not even considered participating.

 

That my friend was the point of that little story, that little situation.