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Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

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Members of the same species can breed to produce viable, fertile offspring. Hybrids can be produced, but just because a zebra and a horse can produce viable offspring, this does not mean that they are members of the same species.

 

Anyway, I consider each of the three colours of each breed of prize dragon to be the same species with different colouration. There's no real definition of what consitutes a breed, though visually they usually have different characteristics like size and shape (the analogue of this in Dragoncave would be different poses and a slightly different shape in addition to colour)

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Though I do think that from a lineage building standpoint the prizes can be considered separate breeds. Lineage building depends largely on color compliment and contrast of the breeds selected, because of that different colored prizes can't be considered interchangeable for lineages.

Different nebula sprites aren't interchangeable for lineages either.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking of when I disagreed with the methodology. I'm more in favor of using the 6/300 number than 2/120 for exactly that reason.

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Except they DO have a shot at getting it all? That's what I don't understand about this whole thing. Tinsels/Shimmers are NOT impossible to obtain by anyone.

 

Basically what I'm getting from this is,

 

You (general) want to take value away from a special dragon that was given to select people because you want it to be easier to get something which is already obtainable simply because you want a super special version of it, which should be hard to get in the first place??

No, the sprites themselves are not, but the CBs are--and if the trade threads and the lineage threads and these suggestions say anything it is that lineages do matter, to many people. From an entirely "get the sprites" viewpoint the only real difficulty in the game is getting Neglecteds and possibly Hollies (although they increased by a pleasant amount this Christmas), so many turn to lineages to keep the challenge in the game.

 

So already the CBs have gone from "hard" to "all but impossible." Even if the raffle gives everyone an equal chance, that by no means the results are equal, as many players will never obtain one. Moving on from that to low gens, however--

 

Are they possible to obtain, but simply hard to do so? Yes. And you're also right that there should be certain things that are hard to get (indeed, on some level that's likely what drew many to lineages to begin with). However, there is a difference between "hard," "really hard," and "insanely hard." I am okay with really hard. It's insanely hard that I find frustrating. And, right now, the proportion of CB Prizes is so low that getting 2nd gens (sometimes even 3rd gens) is insanely hard. Not always because the prices asked for are insane, either, but simply because there are too few. I would like to see them, at some point, become equivalent to no more than one or two CB Metals and be found up for trade somewhat regularly. I think most agree that CB Metals are plenty of a challenge; things that are not just a bit harder, but significantly harder to get than that are rather overdoing it.

 

I see now that you suggested old Prizes still be available as HMs; while that makes the idea more tolerable to me, I still think that just the two Prizes is plenty enough, because the addition of new ones would just start the whole cycle over again. Prizes don't just make people rich on DC, they make them celebrities... it could be toned down a lot and still be a very worthy prize before they get anywhere near commonplace or even noticeably devalued in trade worth or overall scarcity.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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For me the problem with comparing them to Nebs, ridgewings and dorsals is that you can't really control what sprite you get, a red neb can throw any other color and outside of influence you can only hope and pray that it goes the way you want.

 

Prizes on the other hand do breed true and you can base the lineage you build on that. They behave more like breeds than alts in that respect.

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I still think that just the two Prizes is plenty enough, because the addition of new ones would just start the whole cycle over again. Prizes don't just make people rich on DC, they make them celebrities... it could be toned down a lot and still be a very worthy prize before they get anywhere near commonplace or even noticeably devalued in trade worth or overall scarcity.

I couldn't agree more. New prizes will start this kind of thread EVERY YEAR (or, lord help us, every raffle, if there are more than one a year please no please no....).

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I dunno, maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd really like to see new prize breeds added every two years. Maybe after four years a breed could be added into the HM pool, I guess. I really think time is the only remedy for a lot of the issues people have with these raffles.

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We've already established:

Prizes are just that- prizes. Medals are not prizes, they are tokens for an achievement.

Prizes are not tokens of an achievement. If they were an achievement, I'd understand keeping them rare and completely unobtainable - but even then, things earned via the merit of achievement like Nobel Peace prizes are reawarded.

 

Raffles, on the other hand, generally tend to award obtainable things. A quick google shows raffle prizes such as a house, a car and money. Each of these items has already been mass produced and by no means continually guarantees exclusivity for the rest of your life.

 

Houses are constantly being built, devaluing your raffle prize of a house.

Cars are constantly being produced, devaluing your raffle prize of a house.

Money is constantly being printed, devaluing your raffle prize of a million dollars. We even have a word for that - inflation.

 

Another thing to mention is that raffle prizes also tend to be consumable. Money, once spent, does not replenish itself. Houses, once sold, do not continually guarantee your income and indeed falls into disrepair. Cars, over use fall into disrepair and have maintenance costs.

 

Neither did TJ guarantee that prizes would never be re-released. I understand that in 2010, like most of us, that we thought that the contest/raffle would never run again. Whilst it is absolutely fine to dislike the fact that prizes "decrease in their rarity over time" as prize winners, we ought not to deny other people the same opportunity to win the dragons that have been granted to us.

 

The 2011, 2012, 2013 winners have as equal right to the prizes that they have one as the people of 2010. Their existence and the existence of their prizes does not "undermine" our prizes, but we share in that privilege. We won a prize, we do not have the right or entitlement to assume that the prize would provide us with endless valuable offspring forever.

 

Furthermore, prize owners and winners go inactive over time. It is a valid assumption that over time, new winners will be introduced.

 

I have not seen the original Holly owners of 2007 complain that we are devaluing their dragons - why are we complaining now? Considering they were where prizewinners were right now, with Hollies being the top of the top and all of a sudden one day someone decided to rerelease something you had earned three years ago because - because they were going extinct - how would you have felt?

 

Would you have felt... perhaps... that your dragon had been rare for a reason?

 

Do we even have the right to complain, given the fact that in order to establish prize dragons as rare and unique we actually usurped the existing elite of breeders and catchers who previously were able to command the same trading ability as prize winners?

 

A lot of people might have forgotten, but previously, CB metals and 2g metals were also one of the most attractive trading powers in the game, almost second to none. Yet they are now worth a fraction of the value of CB, 2g, 3g prizes. These people were also not compensated by the shift in the trading monopoly by Golds and Silvers to prizes. They were not guaranteed that they would continually maintain a monopoly over the market, nor should anyone be guaranteed a monopoly over the trading market because we simply don't have the right nor privilege to ask/demand it.

 

NONE of those people were guaranteed anything. At any time, TJ could take it all away and he has every right to do so. Winning ought to be enough in itself and everything that we have enjoyed up to now since 2010... is that not enough? Though nothing is for forever and all that exists will one day die. We can only enjoy the present and not seek to maintain control of the future. Indeed, if one day dragon cave itself one day went down, we'd regret investing the time in wondering whether my dragon's still going to be rare in the future.

 

This idea is effectively decreasing their rarity, which is against the entire purpose of a Prize Dragon in the first place. Just because you have to work for it

Sadly, spending 5 minutes on a tree decorating contest after logging in a few times does not constitute hard work. Throwing snow at people for five minutes by refreshing a page does not constitute working or hard work on anything remotely resembling hard work.

 

Neither does the ability to PM people rapidly before their inbox fills up - is this a skill we want to encourage? Neither does finding out who the raffle winners are by digging up their contact information - again, is this something we want to encourage?

 

I'd go as far as to say that the idea of 'earning/working' and 'prize dragon' are completely incompatible. The raffle is deliberately easy to allow people who do not have the time to spend 'earning/working' the equal chance to compete.

 

 

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The entire point of a Prize is to commemorate an occasion (not an achievement, as I stated above). No, we did not do anything super incredible to deserve these prizes, but they were awarded to us nonetheless.

Which is why each raffle event should have its OWN DRAGON.

My point wasn't to be so selfish as to say "no one should ever get CB prizes ever again". I want everyone who wins to have their own special dragon that commemorates their involvement in that event. If someone won a prize from raffle one year and got the same "super special" thing as someone else from a previous year, I'm pretty sure there would be a level of disappointment on both sides of the spectrum.

 

Everyone has a right to their prize, yes, absolutely. I would never want to strip them of that. But in my opinion, prizes should be unique for each year, and not just a "here get this same prize as last year" regurgitation. I want the people for next year to have their super special rare dragon, so that it is more special to them then ANOTHER tinsel or shimmer.

 

No, we were not guaranteed anything. But we SHOULD have been. That is where I get disappointed. When we were first awarded for our trees, there was a level of significance to those prizes that were given to us. The consecutive winners in the other raffles should have likewise gotten a dragon that were significant and unique to them.

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Uhh...how about new prize breeds only have one series instead of copper, silver and gold?

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Different nebula sprites aren't interchangeable for lineages either.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking of when I disagreed with the methodology. I'm more in favor of using the 6/300 number than 2/120 for exactly that reason.

The issue I have with the 6/300 number is that it treats the males and females as separate, when males and females are, for a great many Earthly species, necessary to reproduce. Complementary, as it were. The guys can't survive for more than one generation without the girls, and the girls can't survive for more than one generation without the guys. Sure, our plumbing is different (I'm female, you're male, biologically there are distinct differences tongue.gif ), but can we be considered different breeds, or species? Not really, at least, I couldn't put forth that male vs female are different morphs and maintain a straight face. So if all of DC dragons as the same species ("dragon"), and that the different dragons are "breeds" and some have "color morphs" (Wolfhound vs Chihuahua, brindle vs gold), then by using 300 sprites, you're counting the female dragons as either breeds or morphs of their own.

 

Looking at just the male sprites, that drops the number back to 6/145 (ish). I haven't counted the number of male sprites.

 

(There is a female only species of Molly fish, that uses male sperm of other species to start the process, but uses only the female's DNA, so all her offspring are genetically identical to her. There are others where only the dominant fish in a school is gender A, and the rest are gender B, and when gender A dies, one of gender B morphs And then there are true hermaphrodites, where both can sire and carry young).

 

Cheers!

C4.

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The issue I have with the 6/300 number is that it treats the males and females as separate, when males and females are, for a great many Earthly species, necessary to reproduce. Complementary, as it were. The guys can't survive for more than one generation without the girls, and the girls can't survive for more than one generation without the guys. Sure, our plumbing is different (I'm female, you're male, biologically there are distinct differences tongue.gif ), but can we be considered different breeds, or species? Not really, at least, I couldn't put forth that male vs female are different morphs and maintain a straight face. So if all of DC dragons as the same species ("dragon"), and that the different dragons are "breeds" and some have "color morphs" (Wolfhound vs Chihuahua, brindle vs gold), then by using 300 sprites, you're counting the female dragons as either breeds or morphs of their own.

 

Looking at just the male sprites, that drops the number back to 6/145 (ish). I haven't counted the number of male sprites.

 

(There is a female only species of Molly fish, that uses male sperm of other species to start the process, but uses only the female's DNA, so all her offspring are genetically identical to her. There are others where only the dominant fish in a school is gender A, and the rest are gender B, and when gender A dies, one of gender B morphs And then there are true hermaphrodites, where both can sire and carry young).

 

Cheers!

C4.

I'm not entirely sure what any of that has to do with anything related to DC.

 

The male and female sprites of some breeds look wildly different from one another, and because of that even lineages where only one breed has dimorphism can look radically different from one another depending on which breed is which gender. Prize dragons can be both genders, so you really have to take sprites of both genders of their possible mates into account if you're talking about lineage possibilities.

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I would probably be somewhat on the fence with exclusive breeds. I'd say no to facebook or twitter, but IRC, maybe. The downside to the IRC idea is it bringing in all manner of people who will join just for the breed and potentially causing hassle. Also those who are permanently removed form IRC would be at the disadvantage to not being able to obtain it.

 

I'd like to see - to some degree - a new prize specie. I do not want to see it breedable/tradeable.

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The entire point of a Prize is to commemorate an occasion

The difficulty with this is that the giving of the prize and the raffle unfortunately coincides or commemorates (it is difficult to tell) with Christmas and with such a small population being released, people tend to feel extremely left out since the raffle is so visible (two threads, one filled with pages upon pages of congratulations). Furthermore, Christmas, the spirit of giving, but this even gives not only presents. It gifts dragons which are (currently) extremely valuable and can command, if a person chooses to, the trading market for the rest of the winner's life. Whether individuals gift or trade or not... it does not matter, nor does it affect the somewhat negative stereotype.

 

Which is why each raffle event should have its OWN DRAGON.

Which would have been fine if raised earlier, but now it is too late. Together with the misfortune of no initial multiclutching (making users wholly dependent on other users for prizes). It is difficult to distinguish the aim of the raffle, but I think several components were present:

1) Not allowing CB versions of the dragons to die out - especially Hollies. I believe that this perpetuation was one of the core aims of the raffle, since around that time people complained that the original CB breeding stock was dying out.

2) A secondary aim: Introducing a new, never seen before dragon into the cave in a fair manner.

 

My point wasn't to be so selfish as to say "no one should ever get CB prizes ever again". I want everyone who wins to have their own special dragon that commemorates their involvement in that event. If someone won a prize from raffle one year and got the same "super special" thing as someone else from a previous year, I'm pretty sure there would be a level of disappointment on both sides of the spectrum.

Yes, and I know. However, in the mindset of the general userbase, especially the title of the thread "No new Prize breeds, please!" people make a distinction between prize breeds and the term collectively applied to CB Prizes.

 

No solution exists for the raffle, period, in my opinion. The current tangent of thought seems to be new exclusive dragons (Marrionetta, Lavaheart's 'dragon rarer than CB gold sort of thing', your new raffle dragons thing) only time will tell if that works.

 

What I'd love to know first, before we go very drastic, is whether people value things because of rarity or sprite prettiness. That's why I think that a consolation prize would be interesting - not so people 'get' consolation prizes but so we can measure the relative levels of interest in things which look like prizes and behave like prizes so we can monitor the impact this has on the inherent value of that colour and interest in that colour. Even a different consolation breed altogether would be interesting to look at in the context of the playerbase and the wider market.

 

Other interesting side-effects include seeming diminished interest in suggestions like fixing the cave so rares drop more often and irritation over summon.

 

Regarding this:

I'd like to see - to some degree - a new prize specie. I do not want to see it breedable/tradeable.

Breedability/tradeability was a nice idea, but it was probably the main cause of anger. If it was unbreedable, people would have been resigned to their fates... And people could not argue that winners were using them to maintain 'trading status'. Not many people have complained about things like that flying stack of pancakes, despite the fact that it is more exclusive than the prize dragons owo

Edited by DarkEternity

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No, we were not guaranteed anything. But we SHOULD have been. That is where I get disappointed. When we were first awarded for our trees, there was a level of significance to those prizes that were given to us. The consecutive winners in the other raffles should have likewise gotten a dragon that were significant and unique to them.

So, you support deflation of 2g/3g prizes up to their extinction, increasing pressure on cb owners each year until they quit? Because basically, thats what is happening due to natural attrition. The numbers are nice to play with, but in the end, are meaningless. In the end, its about economy. And economies avoid deflation at all costs. Theres no growth. No Growth means dying slowly, painfully.

 

 

--- still, fun numbers ---

there are close to a million userids in DC. Assuming 5% are still semi-active, would give roughly 50.000 people playing on and off, assuming half of them enter the raffle - 25.000 people.

 

Assume a new breed: enter 60 new prizes. Chance to win: abysmal, as usual. Chance to trade: abysmal, too. Those 60 new prizes will average to something like 900 2nd gens per year, unless people try nasty commons all the time. So in theory, you can supply 4%of users who wanted prizes in a,year. Yeah, lol, obtainable. As if. Statistically, you'd have to wait 25 years for everyone to get a 2nd gen. Clearly, that needs to be improved, not reduced?

Edited by whitebaron

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Its kind of hard to base an argument here off of real world science, as Zoologically a species is something where two members can mate and produce viable offspring. Going by that the grand majority of dragons in the cave would be the same species.

If dragons are nothing but different "breeds" (within the same species), then we would not have a separation of pygmys, drakes, and two-headed dragons which cannot be bred to other dragons except those of their own "kind". In that respect, I can't see dragons as being different breeds of the same animal. Example: Breeding a poodle to a beagle means you are breeding Canis lupus familiaris to another Canis lupus familiaris. However, breeding wolf x dog or dog x coyote is very different.

 

Animals from different families basically don't crossbreed / produce offspring (cat x dog) whereas animals from the same family & genus, but different species can breed together (horse x zebra) as can animals from the same family, but different genus can sometimes cross breed (corn snake x king snake). Some combinations produce viable offspring and others do not.

 

If we wanted to look at dragons from a real-world perspective, then the dragons seem to be roughly broken down into 5 families. To keep things extremely basic, within those families, I have the dragons generally broken down into individual genus with a nominal species and some of those species further broken down into sub-species. Zombie & Neglected are not listed because they were originally other dragons. I guess you could consider them a post-environmental mutation.

 

Family: Non-Breedables

-- Genus/species: Paper

-- Genus/species: Guardian of Nature

-- Genus/species: Cheese

-- Genus/species: Chicken

-- Genus/species: Cheese

-- Genus/species: Dinos

 

Family: Drakes

-- Genus/species: Ochredrake

-- Genus/species: Glory Drake (2 color/pattern mutations)

 

Family: Pygmys

 

-- Genus: Common Pygmys

--> species: common pygmy

--> species: crimson pygmy

--> species: seawyrm pygmy

--> species: dark myst pygmy

--> species: misfit pygmy

--> species: nilia pygmy

 

-- Genus: Holiday Pygmys

--> species: pumpkin

 

Family: Two-headed dragons

-- Genus: Two-headed dragons

--> species: Split

--> species: Two-headed Lindwurm (2 color mutations)

--> species: Gilded Bloodscale

--> species: Duotone

 

Family: Common Dragons

 

-- Genus: Prize Dragons

--> species: Tinsels

----> sub-species: gold tinsel

----> sub-species: silver tinsel (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: bronze tinsel

--> species: Shimmers

----> sub-species: gold shimmer

----> sub-species: silver shimmer (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt color mutation)

----> sub-species: bronze shimmer

 

-- Genus: Holiday Dragons

--> species: Christmas Dragons

----> sub-species: Holly

----> sub-species: Yulebuck (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt color mutation)

----> sub-species: Snow Angels (3 standard colors + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Ribbon Dancers (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Winter Magi (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Wrapping Wing (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Solstice (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

--> species: Valentine Dragons

----> sub-species: Valentine (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Sweetling (2 standard colors + 2 spriter alt mutations)

----> sub-species: Rosebud (1 standard color + 2 spriter alt mutations)

----> sub-species: Heartseeker (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Arsani (1 standard color + 2 spriter alt mutations)

--> species: Halloween Dragons

----> sub-species: Vampire

----> sub-species: Black Marrow

----> sub-species: Shadow Walker (1 standard color + 2 spriter alt mutations)

----> sub-species: Cavern Lurker (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

----> sub-species: Grave (1 standard color + 1 spriter alt mutation)

 

-- Genus: Regular Dragons

--> species: Seasonal

-----> sub-species: Winter

-----> sub-species: Spring

-----> sub-species: Summer

-----> sub-species: Autumn

--> species: Copper

-----> sub-species: Green

-----> sub-species: Red

-----> sub-species: Brown

--> species: Pink

-----> sub-species: Bright Pink (endangered/borderline extinct)

-----> sub-species: Pink

--> species: Sun Set/Rise (2 color/pattern mutations)

--> species: Stripe (5 color mutations)

--> species: Ridgewing (2 color mutations)

--> species: Dorsal (2 color mutations)

--> species: Black (3 pattern mutations)

--> species: Green/Vine (2 pattern mutations)

--> species: Nebula (4 color mutations)

--> species: Frilled (endangered/borderline extinct)

--> species: Red

--> species: White

--> species: Magi

--> species: Pink

--> species: Gold

--> species: Silver

etc....

 

 

"Hybrids" (species crossings within a family)

 

Soulpeace: cross between white/daydream

Geode: cross between green/stone

Shallow water: cross between water/magi

Bluna: cross between skywing/water/deepsea

Hellhorse: cross between horse/hellfire

Edited by WraithZephyr

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WraithZephyr - Species have to breed to produce viable fertile offspring. So all dragons belong to one species, drakes to another and the unbreedables... are, well, soon to be extinct.

 

The hybrid offspring aren't true hybrids either. They breed fertile offspring, so they are just another breed of dragon with traits as a result of polymorphism.

 

edit: not polymorphic. Discrete.

Edited by DarkEternity

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Different nebula sprites aren't interchangeable for lineages either.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking of when I disagreed with the methodology. I'm more in favor of using the 6/300 number than 2/120 for exactly that reason.

I just did a count (with the help of the DC wiki page), and there are just over 200 adult sprites around. (More like 230 +/- 3 for potential errors on my part.) Since you're talking about 6 out of whatever number there actually is, I took that to mean that spriters' alts don't count, or we'd have 8 out of whatever number there is.

 

WraithZephyr - Species have to breed to produce viable fertile offspring. So all dragons belong to one species, drakes to another and the unbreedables... are, well, soon to be extinct.

 

The hybrid offspring aren't true hybrids either. They breed fertile offspring, so they are just another breed of dragon with traits as a result of polymorphism.

That's the original idea behind the term species, yes. But things aren't as black or white as this definition suggests. There are countless plant species which are, actually, hybrids. Wheat, for example, is a three-species cross.

 

Even among animals, fertile hybrids occur. One of the most striking examples are different species of macaws which can breed fertile hybrids. Scarlet, green-winged and blue-and-gold macaws are known to breed fertile hybrids, and at least the military x scarlet and military x blue&gold macaw hybrids are fertile, too. (How I know these hybrids are fertile? Because there are known 3rd gen crosses.)

 

Also, there are cases of crosses where only the females are fertile - like ligers (lion x tiger cross).

Edited by olympe

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I just did a count (with the help of the DC wiki page), and there are just over 200 adult sprites around. (More like 230 +/- 3 for potential errors on my part.) Since you're talking about 6 out of whatever number there actually is, I took that to mean that spriters' alts don't count, or we'd have 8 out of whatever number there is.

To be honest, I just looked at raw number of sprites. I know that that count is thus an over-estimate, and I didn't bother spending much time thinking about by how much. It definitely included spriter's alts, and definitely some sprites that are no longer in use (bright pinks, old golds, etc). Also, different 2009 Holiday wing variants.

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2) A secondary aim: Introducing a new, never seen before dragon into the cave in a fair manner.

Um - scheduled new releases do that, and very fairly indeed.

No solution exists for the raffle, period, in my opinion. The current tangent of thought seems to be new exclusive dragons (Marrionetta, Lavaheart's 'dragon rarer than CB gold sort of thing', your new raffle dragons thing) only time will tell if that works.

Which will result in threads like this after EVERY raffle.

What I'd love to know first, before we go very drastic, is whether people value things because of rarity or sprite prettiness. That's why I think that a consolation prize would be interesting - not so people 'get' consolation prizes but so we can measure the relative levels of interest in things which look like prizes and behave like prizes so we can monitor the impact this has on the inherent value of that colour and interest in that colour. Even a different consolation breed altogether would be interesting to look at in the context of the playerbase and the wider market.

I am OK with the raffle as it is, as I have said; but I think the VALUE people place on these things is primarily a trading issue tied in with lineages, and if there is any breedable dragon out there that the players talking about value want for their lineages and cannot get, they will be angry. I am sure that a consolation prize wouldn't do, as it still wouldn't mean these players have EVERYTHING !

I'd like to see - to some degree - a new prize specie. I do not want to see it breedable/tradeable.

 

Breedability/tradeability was a nice idea, but it was probably the main cause of anger. If it was unbreedable, people would have been resigned to their fates... And people could not argue that winners were using them to maintain 'trading status'. Not many people have complained about things like that flying stack of pancakes, despite the fact that it is more exclusive than the prize dragons owo

This would seem like a very good solution. Though completionist players would still be cross not to have EVERYTHING, winners would still have something unique and special (I would LOVE to win a stack of pancakes xd.png)

 

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I dunno, maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd really like to see new prize breeds added every two years. Maybe after four years a breed could be added into the HM pool, I guess. I really think time is the only remedy for a lot of the issues people have with these raffles.

I agree with you. When Blusang were relased I immediatly loved them. They are beautiful and I would love to see a Lindwurm Prize, too. Or even a Two head (I think that the Two Head breeding would increase a lot) since there are problems to do many lineage because there are few dragons of this kind that could breed each other.

If the CB Prizes will stay inmates for a small group of people forever there would be the same problem we had with the Hollies. They would extinguish after some years with their owners that leaves DC for one reason or another.

I would prefer them relased, so we could have more Prize Breeds.

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To be honest, I just looked at raw number of sprites. I know that that count is thus an over-estimate, and I didn't bother spending much time thinking about by how much. It definitely included spriter's alts, and definitely some sprites that are no longer in use (bright pinks, old golds, etc). Also, different 2009 Holiday wing variants.

Did it also include hatchie sprites?

 

Anyway, we can argue about exact percentages till the cows come home (which is a weird idiom, I've spent a (small) amount of time on a dairy farm and the cows do, indeed, come home, so why that saying used to mean the opposite?).

 

And the reason it can be argued is because the definition of "species" is so slippery, and comparing real life to a dragon game can only be taken so far. The "Gold Standard" is if two creatures can't breed to produce fertile offspring, then they are different species. However, for example in the Rift Lakes (Lake Malawi and others, where the pretty fishes come from), all the fish of the tribe Haplochromini (Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata, Class: Actinopterygii, Order: Perciformes, Family: Cichlidae, Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae, Tribe: Haplochromini, Genus: Nimbochromis) can interbreed with fertile results. The species generally won't do that in the wild, and in a large enough environment with both species present the females will prefer their own males.

 

And yet... scientifically, there are multiple Genuses (and many many species) in the family Haplochromini (that and related tribes are often called "Haps" in the tropical fish hobby). And they can all interbreed, though such hybrids tend to be really frowned upon in certain segments of the fish hobby (ok a large segment). The domestic freshwater Angelfish is a case in point. Its actually a hybrid of whats classed as many species, which has then experienced phenotype mutations in captivity to get the various color morphs, body shapes, and fin shape. The freshwater Discus shows this even more spectacularly (though the domestic Discus and Angelfish have lost much of the wild behaviors of their wild ancestors. I've had both, and the wilds are so much more fun to watch, though their colors are more muted).

 

Counting male / female dimorphism as 1, but including color morphs (I counted the Nebulas as 2, 4 color morphs but they are 2 per gender), I'm coming up with 120 different "breed / species / whatever-floats-your-boat"s, including all holidays and all 6 (call em color morphs) of the Prizes. It can be counted in any number of ways.

 

 

But... I still feel the number of exclusive sprites is too high in relation to the number of others sprites in the cave, in particular the number of uncommon / rare sprites. (I will take this time to put in a request for the shiny Tanglewyrms on the completed list even if they are released in the cave as rares.... *swoons* over sprite).

 

I view the Holidays as limited, and I think limited edition sprites are a good thing (up to a point) because everyone who was on at that time can get them. Exclusives, however, I personally feel should be kept to a minimum, no matter how fair (or not fair) their distribution is. Had there been only two Prize sprites (Silver Tinsel and Silver shimmer since silvers are my favorite tongue.gif ) then... I'd have a different view of the numbers, and probably wouldn't have made this thread. But then.... I think the issues we're currently suffering would be a lot less if there had been only two sprites.

 

 

tl;dr

Exact numbers are a view point thing, and if one thing is clear its that we all view things slightly differently. But... I think a lot of people would be deeply appreciative if the same 6 Prize sprites were kept for the next few years, to give the CB Tinsels and Shimmers a much wider spread before a new breed is released. The sprites are so pretty, it'd be a shame if the CBs went the way of the Dodo bird, like CB Hollies almost did.

 

But the cave could use a few more in-cave uncommons / rares. (Yes there will be drama, this is DragCave I'll bet there'd be drama if TJ said the sun rises in the East and sets in the West).

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I would like to see more rares in cave. The market would change, the drama would move from Prizes to new dragons, but it's also true that there is an HUGE difference between uncommon and rare.

Rares should be less "rare" in your opinion? If they should we could add more rare dragons (Platinum? I would love to it), if not.... I think there would be too much drama.

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I would like to see more rares in cave. The market would change, the drama would move from Prizes to new dragons, but it's also true that there is an HUGE difference between uncommon and rare.

Rares should be less "rare" in your opinion? If they should we could add more rare dragons (Platinum? I would love to it), if not.... I think there would be too much drama.

Not less "rare". If the total number of prizes bred that TJ gave in another thread, Prizes are actually commons. They breed poorly because there are so many of them bred, in total, and the low gens are so in-demand because there are so few CBs (add more CBs and the 2nd gens will spread further, and satisfy more of the demand). I think what TJ said was that there were more Prize eggs produced than there were several common eggs. Drama will never leave the Prizes, not unless they become much easier to get in low gen versions. Which you could double their CB numbers yet again and that still probably wouldn't happen.

 

So, rares should be rare, commons should be common, but there needs to be more rares and more uncommons. And I dislike exclusives. But yes, I feel the cave could use more shiny metal sprites, even if they are classed as "rare", so long as they can be gotten in the cave and are not exclusive.

 

The drama over Coppers has definitely died down. The drama over Tinsels and Shimmers picks up more steam ever year.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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Not less "rare". If the total number of prizes bred that TJ gave in another thread, Prizes are actually commons. They breed poorly because there are so many of them bred, in total, and the low gens are so in-demand because there are so few CBs (add more CBs and the 2nd gens will spread further, and satisfy more of the demand). I think what TJ said was that there were more Prize eggs produced than there were several common eggs. Drama will never leave the Prizes, not unless they become much easier to get in low gen versions. Which you could double their CB numbers yet again and that still probably wouldn't happen.

 

So, rares should be rare, commons should be common, but there needs to be more rares and more uncommons. And I dislike exclusives. But yes, I feel the cave could use more shiny metal sprites, even if they are classed as "rare", so long as they can be gotten in the cave and are not exclusive.

 

The drama over Coppers has definitely died down. The drama over Tinsels and Shimmers picks up more steam ever year.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Yes, I agree with all you said, but you don't undersstand my question.

I'm asking if CB metallics that you can find in cave right now (Gold, Coppers and Silver) should be more easy to find.

Since you have rightly said that there are few metallics very usable for the lineages do you think they should be a little bit more common?

I'm not reffering (for now) to the Prizes dragons smile.gif

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Yes, I agree with all you said, but you don't undersstand my question.

I'm asking if CB metallics that you can find in cave right now (Gold, Coppers and Silver) should be more easy to find.

Since you have rightly said that there are few metallics very usable for the lineages do you think they should be a little bit more common?

I'm not reffering (for now) to the Prizes dragons smile.gif

That's a different thread, however, I think the Golds and Silvers are, as they are currently dropping, fair for being rare. How they dropped a few years ago wasn't, really. I also think the Biomes could move better, but... again, another thread. There's a whole list of metallic sprites on the completed list, doing a release "theme" for a few months would greatly up the metal sprites in the cave. (*slobber*Tanglewyrm*slobber*Mythril*slobber*all-sorts-of-others*)

 

Cheers!

C4.

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