Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[MedievalMystic]

Of course, SS. People should be able to express views and opinions and disappointment. That's fine anywhere. I'd say this site and some of it's user's take it to a whole different level. When a group of people can throw a wet blanket over the entire site to the point where most people begin to dread events because of them, something is seriously wrong...and not with the site.

 

where exclusives happen ALL the TIME.

 

But they don't. They only happen during events and there aren't that many. And it's not the same exclusives. Ever. They're different every time.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Ayelldee]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a new Prize dragon. Probably won't WIN one, but it'd be nice to see a different Prize as I'm getting kinda tired of the other two. I'm all for any new dragons on DC.

 

It's a fact of life that you can't always have what the other person has. Deal with it.

 

2 more posts and I get to be 'cool' too!

Edited January 9, 2015 by Ayelldee

[stagazer_7]

I wouldn't mind introducing new Prize sprites if the existing ones would become available in the Cave after a few years - plenty of time for winners to enjoy their victory, but then giving other players a chance to own these dragons too. But with the way thing are now, and this is my opinion only and it's a completely biased one since I'm a specific lineage type breeder (checkers ftw <3) - introduction of any new Prize sprites would be a waste since you can't be as creative with such a breed, which severely limits its potential (for me, not trying to put words in anyone's mouth). For me Prizes are about as interesting as Dinos, Papers and Cheese Dragons, neat sprite too look at, but makes me wish I could do more with it... well, a bit more interesting, at least you can do some lineage work with them, however limited it may be.

Edited January 9, 2015 by stagazer_7

[MedievalMystic]

Dinos, Papers and Cheese Dragons

 

There's always been a part of me that wished they could breed. Especially chickens. And especially if a rooster was introduced. I've always wanted a rooster. How totally cute and adorable would that be? lol

[JavaTigress]

There's always been a part of me that wished they could breed.  Especially chickens. And especially if a rooster was introduced.  I've always wanted a rooster.    How totally cute and adorable would that be?  lol

ACTUALLY.... on that point I think we are agreed. A rooster and the ability to breed chickens would be fun.

 

AS for the topic at hand, it seems to ME that I think think it is a shame that some peopel act the way they do, BUT I am not sure what can be done about THAT part OF IT.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Silverswift

[stagazer_7]

There's always been a part of me that wished they could breed.  Especially chickens. And especially if a rooster was introduced.  I've always wanted a rooster.     How totally cute and adorable would that be?  lol

I would love that, there would be so many fun lineages! Also, I want a Rooster too, my hens are so lonely all by themselves - it would be awesome if Chickens could mate with pygmies to create terrifying Chicken-Dragon hybrids.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2015 by stagazer_7

[_Sin_]

Actually, this will not do at all.

 

The current relative common and low-value state of non-low-gen prizes stem from the fact that they've been continously bred en masse for years. There will still be a significant impact to the trades when you release a new prize no matter how you try to do it, because they'll all have to start from CB and build the overall pop from there.

 

The best you can manage with a (massively) increased initial winner pool is to lower the damage the new prize breed does to the trade environment. It can never be prevented.

I think the intent was mitigation more than prevention.

 

Edit:

And I full agree that a new prize breed would strongly impact/damage the trade environment.

Edited January 9, 2015 by _Sin_

[cyradis4]

Actually, this will not do at all.

 

The current relative common and low-value state of non-low-gen prizes stem from the fact that they've been continously bred en masse for years. There will still be a significant impact to the trades when you release a new prize no matter how you try to do it, because they'll all have to start from CB and build the overall pop from there.

 

The best you can manage with a (massively) increased initial winner pool is to lower the damage the new prize breed does to the trade environment. It can never be prevented.

That's why I'm against a new Prize breed, ever. If you want to release a shiny... Release it into the Cave. Or if you *must* release a new prize, have it be all one color. That will reduce the screaming by 66% over what it was for Tinsels / Shimmers.

 

OR

 

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

 

ANY release of a new Raffle Prize dragon will kill the trade market for several years, until enough low gens get into circulation. That's just the way things like this are, and the only way to prevent that is to not release a new dragon in a raffle.

 

Like I've said in the past... There are only twenty CB Gold Tinsels.... In Total. Period. End of Story. You could increase that number 10 times and the extreme majority of people still wouldn't have one. And you could increase all the Prizes proportionally.... And the vast majority of people *still* wouldn't have a CB. But the pressure would come off of the existing CB owners.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Reidragon]

No support. I like variety and you can always collect the sprites be they long lined or not. That's just my opinion on it and I doubt that it will change.

[stagazer_7]

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

That would actually be kind of awesome, it would give people extra stuff to do while waiting for their eggs to hatch.

[Naruhina_94]

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

That would be perfect. I was too afraid to ask, but honestly I would definitely love it.

[JavaTigress]

That's why I'm against a new Prize breed, ever. If you want to release a shiny... Release it into the Cave. Or if you *must* release a new prize, have it be all one color. That will reduce the screaming by 66% over what it was for Tinsels / Shimmers.

 

OR

 

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

 

ANY release of a new Raffle Prize dragon will kill the trade market for several years, until enough low gens get into circulation. That's just the way things like this are, and the only way to prevent that is to not release a new dragon in a raffle.

 

Like I've said in the past... There are only twenty CB Gold Tinsels.... In Total. Period. End of Story. You could increase that number 10 times and the extreme majority of people still wouldn't have one. And you could increase all the Prizes proportionally.... And the vast majority of people *still* wouldn't have a CB. But the pressure would come off of the existing CB owners.

 

Cheers!

C4.

ACTUALLY! IMO, this would a BRILLIANT way to bring back Mana Alchemy, which I know that some people are really pulling for.

[lorimmel]

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

Exactly. Make it more ambitious than collecting a little mana for the ticket, but make it available to everyone who is interested enough to do it. INSTEAD of raffling it to random people.

[_Sin_]

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get.

I really like that idea! I liked also another one, suggested by DarkEternity:

 

Every week the number of dragons raised and trades completed contributes to a global mana bar. When the number raised hits a certain number everyone which contributed to the bar is RNG'd and the winners with a spare slot open are selected for a random prize.

In this scenario distribution would be based on the relative activity of the userbase. It avoids having to send out emails and things too.

 

Edit: I wish someone would start a thread with those mana-related suggestions.

Edited January 9, 2015 by _Sin_

[cyradis4]

I'm pretty sure a suggestion was made, but I can't for the life of me dredge up any ideas for what it'd have been called.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

It's not just the raffle itself that's troubling me. It's the consequence of said raffles.

 

All of a sudden, we got some new shinies - of which there were way too few back then - that were not only really good-looking and much more modern than the older ones (golds, silvers) - but also almost impossible to get. So they were highly desirable, in high demand - and too few and far between.

 

This created a situation where economy came into play. High demand combined with low production always ends up driving prices sky-high. A situation that hasn't changed much in 4 years now. Trades are still dominated by prize trades because people want these dragons. Desperately. The lower gen, the better. It also means that the rarest dragons of all - CB golds mostly - serve mostly as currency for trading for the rare prizes. As a consequence, there are more people trying to get as many CB metals as they can, increasing competition there as well as decreasing other players' ability to trade for them. Because way too many people don't want to trade away their "currency" for something but the "real thing", namely a low-gen prize.

 

To top it off, many of these desirables get traded for each other. (There's nothing per se wrong with that - but it does kind of rub it in. Like those badges saying "I bit a gold and I liked it", "I bit a silver and I liked it" or "I bit a holly and I liked it" when all three were as good as impossible to get at all and people were desperate to even get a messy, inbred gold or silver. It's like putting salt on an already open wound. It stings, whether that's intended or not. Especially if that's the kind of trades you see the most: low-gen for low gen or insane amounts of metals for prizes.)

 

So, people are already discontent to some extent. Some more, some less. Some people come up with suggestion to improve things for themselves. (Aren't all suggestions at least a bit egoistical? Sure. It doesn't mean they're bad, just that the motivation to propose them isn't usually an entirely altruistic one.) But what happens? If you do a little forum search, you can find a number of reactions after the first few supportive and/or neutral posts:

• TJ eventually closing the thread because he doesn't agree. :/
• (Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because they feel that their rights are being impeded. Starting with post number 2 (Also "special" in post number 12)

• (Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because it would make their prize less special. Post number 7

• (Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because it was only suggested because people feel wrongly entitled to get everything. Post number 11

• (Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion and calling the rest of the players a number of things in the most patronizing way possible. starting quite heavily on page 2, but also on page 5, 6, 7 (I know this one. That's the place where I finally exploded.) non-haves are greedy, post number 14

• People opposing any kind of suggestion "because things are the way they are for a reason".

In all of these cases, it's the "contras" who are starting up the drama with their "nice" posts.

 

Of course, this kind of knee-jerk reaction does create drama. Eventually, these posts will get a reaction out of the other party, because it's degrading to be called things like greedy, whiny, feeling entitled to things and that we should simply just suck it up ("move on", "coll your jets" are just some of the expressions I saw) because that's the way it's meant to be. The prize winners' complaints that everybody else is inconsiderate, demanding and greedy because their inboxes get cluttered doesn't help any. Not every one of us PMs every single prize winner we know about, much less in a rude or demanding fashion. It stifles objective discussion and turns most of these threads into very hostile places. Not every one of us PMs every single prize winner we know about, much less in a rude or demanding fashion. It stifles objective discussion and turns most of these threads into very hostile places.

 

If it weren't for all of that, I could easily go my merry way. But whatever suggestion, no matter how well-intended, comes up, someone always has to turn a friendly discussion thread into hostile territory by demeaning those who want to address the problems surrounding the prizes.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[cyradis4]

*snip for length*

Here here!

 

I swear I'm going to start reporting all posts that call me "greedy" and "entitled" as being insulting and degrading. I DO NOT PM PRIZE WINNERS ABOUT PRIZES unless they say they are open to it! I think I've only PMed 2 or 3 about Prize Kin, waaaaaay after the Prizes were released.

 

What I want is a reasonable trading market, where things other than Prizes are traded for metals and other nice stuff.

 

Most of the Prize owners trading do not ask for gobs of metals! That "currency" isn't a currency many want, which is why its so funny that people still get those huge offers and won't consider anything else. If the Prizes did not dominate the trade market so much, if they were more available, then I *could* find those trades where I have just what the Prize owner wants.... And I'd be able to use those lovely sprites in lineages, like I want.

 

I'm trying to find a way to relieve a problem in the game that affects BOTH sides, and trying to find a good compromise that lets all sides go away at least satisfied.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[MedievalMystic]

I swear I'm going to start reporting all posts that call me "greedy" and "entitled" as being insulting and degrading.

 

Understand I'm not talking about you personally when I say this, but if people see greedy and entitled behavior out of anyone, anywhere, any time, and that's exactly how they come off by their tone and the shoe fits and they get called on it, it is NOT 'insulting' or 'degrading' to be called on truth. I certainly don't feel sorry for them or care if they feel 'insulted'. And from the tone of some of the posts I've read, some people need a dose of that kind of truth, imo. And about time, too. If I see someone acting greedy or entitled when they have no right to be and I say nothing, I just condoned that behavior and to me that's a whole lot worse than calling someone on it.

 

If I see someone in RL grabbing an elderly person...or anyone, really... and trying to take their groceries or purse, for example, should I not call that person out for the he is? If I walk away saying nothing, I just condoned bad behavior, and imo, makes me part of the problem. And for me, honestly, I don't care one iota if that *** trying to steal from the elderly person, or from whoever, is offended that I called him an ***. Because, by his actions and words he proved himself one, he is one and all I did was call it like I saw it. I'm not the one who should be punished for calling someone on bad behavior if bad behavior is what people are clearly exhibiting. Nobody should. That would be the same thing as me getting arrested for helping that elderly person against the *** and the *** walking free because he was screaming about how 'insulted' he was that someone tried to jerk a knot in his chain....and rightly so.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Shajana]

I don't support this and I really don't understand why every year we have close to the new raffle felt hundreds of "raffle improve", "no new prize dragons" "no raffle anymore" threads.

Please TJ started the raffle long ago why can't you just accept his system? This is a free game you don't have to pay for it and you can get a free dragon in that raffle if you are lucky, if not you will get it one day, it is not CB but it doesn't matter. Be happy with the things you have and don't try to change every year the same boring thing.

[lorimmel]

Understand I'm not talking about you personally when I say this, but if people see greedy and entitled behavior out of anyone, anywhere, any time, and that's exactly how they come off by their tone and the shoe fits and they get called on it, it is NOT 'insulting' or 'degrading' to be called on truth. I certainly don't feel sorry for them or care if they feel 'insulted'. And from the tone of some of the posts I've read, some people need a dose of that kind of truth, imo. And about time, too. If I see someone acting greedy or entitled when they have no right to be and I say nothing, I just condoned that behavior and to me that's a whole lot worse than calling someone on it.

As far as I understand, this is a suggestion/request thread.

 

Calling people "greedy" or "entitled" should be definitely taken somewhere else.

How about the vent thread? Or "general suggestions about how other people should think and behave" thread? Or "let's adore every admin decision on DC" thread?

[_Sin_]

As far as I understand, this is a suggestion/request thread.

 

Calling people "greedy" or "entitled" should be definitely taken somewhere else.

How about the vent thread? Or "general suggestions about how other people should think and behave" thread? Or "let's adore every admin decision on DC" thread?

LOL!

/claps approvingly

 

[MedievalMystic]

Calling people "greedy" or "entitled" should be definitely taken somewhere else.

 

Imo, that behavior should be called where it's seen, wherever that happens to be. Just because this is a suggestion thread doesn't give people free license to act badly, if indeed that's what people perceive they're doing.

 

All of this brings to mind sporting events, like the NBA and the NFL. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if most people in life had the same attitudes as people here after their team lost a game. I have this vision in my mind of the losing team and it's supporters rushing the winning team and their supporters and beating the crap out of them, all screaming that the winners cheated and it's not FAIR and that beating them bloody is only right, only doing what is absolutely justified , because of course, the winning team deserved it because they're NOT HAPPY and it's all THEIR FAULT. Not a nice picture...but honestly, that's what raffles, and how some people react, feel like to me.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[cyradis4]

I don't support this and I really don't understand why every year we have close to the new raffle felt hundreds of "raffle improve", "no new prize dragons" "no raffle anymore" threads.

Please TJ started the raffle long ago why can't you just accept his system? This is a free game you don't have to pay for it and you can get a free dragon in that raffle if you are lucky, if not you will get it one day, it is not CB but it doesn't matter. Be happy with the things you have and don't try to change every year the same boring thing.

If everyone followed that kind of thought, "Be happy with what you have", then the United States would be a free country.... For rich white men. Everyone else in the country would be in a very sorry state, ranging from deathly horrible to moderately bad.

 

If people see something that they feel is not right, or that they feel could be improved, then don't they have both a right and an obligation to try to rectify the situation?

 

The raffles have caused many, many people on both sides of the fence a LOT of problems.

 

And if you want "not boring", how about supporting a Cave release in January? Or since you are a spriter, how about drawing up a nice new rare for the January release? Why are you supporting new raffle prizes, which benefits only a few dozen people in a userbase greater than 10,000?

 

Why do you want to exacerbate a situation that has already brought the DC trading forum to its knees, caused a huge rift in the userbase, and driven many players away?

 

C4.

Edited January 9, 2015 by cyradis4

[_Sin_]

Imo, that behavior should be called where it's seen, wherever that happens to be.

So, in your opinion, if someone is acting confrontational, offensive, aggressive, and all-around unpleasant all over the forums, that should be called out as well?

Edited January 9, 2015 by _Sin_

[MedievalMystic]

If people allowed that kind of thought, "Be happy with what you have", then the United States would be a free country.... For rich white men. Everyone else in the country would be in a very sorry state, ranging from deathly horrible to moderately bad.

 

We're talking possessions here, not rights. People have a right to be free. People do not have a right to demand their neighbors property. People shouldn't go around miserable and worse, making everyone else miserable because they don't have the neighbor's Mercedes. Sure, all should be free to do as they please. But your freedom shouldn't come at the expense of your neighbor. Just because you want that car doesn't mean you should be able to demand the use of it.