Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm just not a fan of exclusive dragons in general. While I gravitated to DC over other similar games for a variety of reasons, the availability of dragons was definitely a big one. I hate games that have lots of exclusives, whether they be through paid perks, retired breeds, or tons of fancy award dragons. While the situation with DC's prize dragons isn't as dire (you can still get higher gen ones, after all), it's still similar enough that I dislike it. I can't create lineages with prizes as I wish (due to their extremely limited nature), and their existence also creates the same super rich / you ain't never gonna match this status that exclusives create in other games (even when the owners don't trade their offspring for high prices, their mere EXISTENCE makes their owners celebrities with a guaranteed way to get, well, just about everything else in the game if they decide to).

 

So, since I don't really like the way they were handled to begin with, I'd rather not see more of them. The exception would be if they were someday made widely available to the general public, in which case I wouldn't mind new prizes coming in every so often. Even if that means the original prize owner's dragons would someday no longer be super valuable, a few years of near-exclusive CB ownership on a game of thousands of people is not the sort of good fortune and trading power one can sneeze at (and, if Thuwed and Dorkface collectors are any indication, even then the original prize's babies would still be worth plenty)!

 

 

[Jazeki]

Don't think I ever really gave my opinion on this aside from a reply concerning devalued prizes, so:

-Keep tins and shims in rotation as main prizes and/or HM prizes.

-Add new prize breeds because new prizes in rotation with tins and shims means less worry from current and future winners about the supposed devaluing of prizes. Also new sprites! Yay!

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jazeki

[edwardelricfreak]

I would really like to see new prizes from time to time. Certainly not every year and maybe not every other year, but imo the same two would get reeeeeaaaally stale.

[Guillotine]

I'd like new prize breeds every 2-3 years or so if they were more of a "delayed release" (and announced as being that way) and Tins/Shims stayed in rotation; that is, the owners of the new breeds would have however many years of exclusivity before they were introduced to the cave proper.

 

That's a discussion for a different thread, though (provided it hasn't been nuked).

[_Sin_]

Since the topic came up on another thread and SockPuppet Strangler reminded us that separate suggestions should be on separate threads, I'm bumping this.

[TCA]

I used to think this was a good idea, but then I got bored of Tinsels and Shimmers.

 

I'd be up for seeing new prize breeds.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave. Both of which are highly unlikely to happen, so uh.

[Jazeki]

Don't think I ever really gave my opinion on this aside from a reply concerning devalued prizes, so:

-Keep tins and shims in rotation as main prizes and/or HM prizes.

-Add new prize breeds because new prizes in rotation with tins and shims means less worry from current and future winners about the supposed devaluing of prizes. Also new sprites! Yay!

This is me many months later saying that I still would like new prizes added, but I admit that I don't look forward to the trading/collecting outlook. I sincerely hope that if new ones come out this year, they are part of an exponentially increased prize pool for all prizes involved. My first tinsel was a messy 9th gen silver gifted in August 2011 and my first shimmer was an 8th gen stairstep gold gifted in April 2013. I had to wait months to move up the list to be gifted my tinsel in the prize gifting thread and I believe the shimmer was a departure thread catch for those that couldn't trade for prizes. Either way, it was not an option for me to trade for anything lower at the time and I was happy to get any prizes at all. I hope if there are more prize breeds, there is also something to ease the collecting ability.

[OMGitsKairi]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave. Both of which are highly unlikely to happen, so uh.

This is pretty much how I'm feeling, honestly. Although preferably both.

[AnanoKimi]

I agree with Jazeki. As long as they can be rotated and brought back every so often then just add new ones in.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave. Both of which are highly unlikely to happen, so uh.

The second part of this, but not the first necessarily - as we have no idea how many prizes there are relative to entries; we just know that a vocal minority KNOW there are too few

[High Lord November]

I'm for new prizes. They're supposed to be rare gifts you win, and I don't find it that hard to get them if you're patient, of course. All you need to do is post in a gifting/trading thread, and I found that generally someone is willing to give. And I've gotten lovely lineages out of all three of the Eastern ones I've received through the random gifting services.

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Ecpua

http://dragcave.net/lineage/2Qbls

http://dragcave.net/lineage/KeRFD

 

So I say - use the forum as a resource. Solely looking for them on the AP doesn't always cut it.

Edited January 9, 2015 by High Lord November

[olympe]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave. Both of which are highly unlikely to happen, so uh.

Have to put my vote with this. Prizes and everything related to them are already bad enough as it is. I don't want to see things go even worse with more prizes.

[_Sin_]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave.

^^This. Wishing, in particular, for the last part.

[MedievalMystic]

I like the thought of new, exciting prize breeds. If people have some kind of problem with it, it should be their problem, not the entire site's problem. No support for this from me.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I like the thought of new, exciting prize breeds. If people have some kind of problem with it, it should be their problem, not the entire site's problem. No support for this from me.

What's a problem for a lot of people on the site is a problem for the site, a fact you continually seem to ignore. The trade threads have stagnated to death due to just two prizes for years; a continual addition of new ones is just going to refresh that problem over and over, while also maintaining the pressure on prize owners that's likely the cause behind a fair chunk of them leaving, worsening the scarcity problem all the more.

[MedievalMystic]

Then it is what it is, ADP. Personally, I'm not sweating bullets over other people's ability to trade or not. People can get whatever prize comes out. It might take some time, but they can get them eventually.

 

And if Prize owners feel pressure from certain individuals, those individuals need to be reported for harassment and given PM bans for a week or two.

 

 

[Naruhina_94]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first or old prizes are eventually released in cave. Both of which are highly unlikely to happen, so uh.

I agree so much with you ADP. I've avoided this topic until now because the majority of replies make me feel angry and sad. I really cannot understand why people refuse suggestions like this but when we talk about old CB holidays and CB prizes almost everyone seem happy to keep them "special" and not available for the majority of users.

When I read that Prizes are a special privilege for few users my blood boils. Why should I play a game where I'm not free to enjoy every part of it, lineages, too? Especially since this game has so few retired breeds that it could be almost perfect.

Dragons should spawn from the Cave, the site itself. Leaving an entire breed to few people will obviously cause chaos! How could few users breed all the 2nd gens that the userbase require? They can't. IF anyone still claim that Lineages are not part of the game they should really take a step back and look at the trade's topics, the suggestion's topics and the game itself.

[CNR4806]

I'm against new prizes unless either the number of winners rises DRASTICALLY first [...]

Actually, this will not do at all.

 

The current relative common and low-value state of non-low-gen prizes stem from the fact that they've been continously bred en masse for years. There will still be a significant impact to the trades when you release a new prize no matter how you try to do it, because they'll all have to start from CB and build the overall pop from there.

 

The best you can manage with a (massively) increased initial winner pool is to lower the damage the new prize breed does to the trade environment. It can never be prevented.

Edited January 9, 2015 by CNR4806

[JavaTigress]

I agree so much with you ADP. I've avoided this topic until now because the majority of replies make me feel angry and sad. I really cannot understand why people refuse suggestions like this but when we talk about old CB holidays and CB prizes almost everyone seem happy to keep them "special" and not available for the majority of users.

When I read that Prizes are a special privilege for few users my blood boils. Why should I play a game where I'm not free to enjoy every part of it, lineages, too? Especially since this game has so few retired breeds that it could be almost perfect.

Dragons should spawn from the Cave, the site itself. Leaving an entire breed to few people will obviously cause chaos! How could few users breed all the 2nd gens that the userbase require? They can't. IF anyone still claim that Lineages are not part of the game they should really take a step back and look at the trade's topics, the suggestion's topics and the game itself.

That is sort of the thing. WHILE in THEORY I like the idea of new breeds, stepping back and looking at it reasonably tells me that it is NOT a good idea and will ONLY lead to more drama.

 

That wouldn't HAVE to be the case, but it is, unfortunately.

 

The trouble being that people will want the new dragons IMMEDIATELY when, if they are patient, soon enough pretty ones will be given away for free in the Gifting threads or can be caught from the AP. Come to think of it, THAT is what a WHOLE LOT of the trouble with these raffles boils down to, people being impatient and having to have it now. It probably helps mu case that I have no desire to hold out for 2G, while I understand that others DO, which probably helps me with collecting the prize sprites.

 

SO, while I am not sure that I would be opposed to new prize breeds sometime int he future... it should probably wait for a few more years, IMO.

[MedievalMystic]

I just came off another, very popular, game that I play that just had a major event end. In that event people could win various pets/items if they entered and participated in a wide variety of games...the pets that are won are actually called 'Exclusives'. No, not everyone gets them. In fact, the majority doesn't get them. Only a scant few get them. I didn't have time to get into the event and didn't win squat. A lot of people that did enter to win in just about every game didn't win squat. And yes, there's a lot of breeding/collecting going on over there, too, as those two aspects pretty much make up a huge part of the game. No, these exclusive pets won't ever be available again for anyone. Ever. Unless they're bred. And you know what the response was towards the winners? 'Congrats everyone! Congrats you guys!'.....and that was it. Game over. Done. Not one person out of thousands...thousands...threw a fit or complained how UNFAIR it was, and why shouldn't they be able to get it, and.... yeah. Thank God. The tone of that site is very different because bad attitudes and throwing tantrums because you didn't win are totally frowned upon over there. People over there would be flabbergasted...and disgusted... at some of what goes down here and it wouldn't be tolerated. Over there, it's just an understood fact that some will win, some won't. It's accepted as the norm and no big deal. People over there expect others to be good sports and rightly so. God, when did it become the norm for it to be ok to be a sulky bad sport? When did it become acceptable to show such bad attitudes just because you didn't win something? And who in the hell lied to you and promised you'd get everything? That attitude is the norm on this site, God help us all, and imo, that's what needs changing, nothing else. If people want to leave because they can't get everything, then leave.

 

And please, don't play the 'this is a collecting game' card. A lot of games I've played and do play are collecting games. And not one person has everything. Expecting to have everything is not the norm on any of those games and it shouldn't be the norm here either.

 

You don't get everything, you're not entitled to everything and nobody promised you everything. Where in the rules here does TJ promise that every single user will have every single thing? That's a myth some of the user base has created, it's certainly not truth. Deal with it or leave the game if you don't like it. I mean, what else? And before you start on other games, you might want to check that attitude. It won't be well received anywhere else.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[JavaTigress]

I just came off another, very popular, game that I play that just had a major event end. In that event people could win various pets/items if they entered and participated in a wide variety of games...the pets that are won are actually called 'Exclusives'. No, not everyone gets them. In fact, the majority doesn't get them. Only a scant few get them. I didn't have time to get into the event and didn't win squat. A lot of people that did enter to win in just about every game didn't win squat. And yes, there's a lot of breeding/collecting going on over there, too, as those two aspects pretty much make up a huge part of the game. No, these exclusive pets won't ever be available again for anyone. Ever. Unless they're bred. And you know what the response was towards the winners? 'Congrats everyone! Congrats you guys!'.....and that was it. Game over. Done. Not one person out of thousands...thousands...threw a fit or complained how UNFAIR it was, and why shouldn't they be able to get it, and.... yeah. Thank God. The tone of that site is very different because bad attitudes and throwing tantrums because you didn't win are totally frowned upon over there. People over there would be flabbergasted...and disgusted... at some of what goes down here and it wouldn't be tolerated. Over there, it's just an understood fact that some will win, some won't. It's accepted as the norm and no big deal. People over there expect others to be good sports and rightly so. God, when did it become the norm for it to be ok to be a sulky bad sport? When did it become acceptable to show such bad attitudes just because you didn't win something? And who in the hell lied to you and promised you'd get everything? That attitude is the norm on this site, God help us all, and imo, that's what needs changing, nothing else. If people want to leave because they can't get everything, then leave.

While I DO agree that bad attitudes shouldn't be tolerated, I see an important difference.

 

On the site you are describing, MM, it sounds like exclusives are an established and accepted game mechanic. That is, it is what it is, and people play the game KNOWING what it is. I think the difference is that Exclusives are NOT a common thing on DC, and there are many users that play DC for exactly that reason.

[MedievalMystic]

The bottom line is that exclusive dragons are here now. That's a fact. And bad attitudes towards things TJ wants to do with his own site, or toward Prize winners, or Artists and their creations, or whatever, still shouldn't be an accepted norm, imo.

 

At the other site, the owners are in the process of upgrading many of the pets there, changing their look completely. Sure, some people expressed disappointment, but that was all. The site owners laid it out...the game was their vision, and they were sorry that some people were unhappy, but the new pets were much closer to what THEY envisioned for their game and that's how it was going to be. And that was the end of it. As it should be.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[JavaTigress]

The bottom line is that exclusive dragons are here now.  That's a fact.   And bad attitudes towards things TJ wants to do with his own site, or toward Prize winners, or whatever, still shouldn't be an accepted norm, imo.

No, they shouldn't be.

 

That doesn't mean that, if users aren't happy with a change they can't say so... always providing they do so politely, of course.

 

Exclusives maybe be here in a very LIMITED form... I think part of the issue s that many don't want it to move more in the direction of some of the other sites, like the one you describe, where exclusives happen ALL the TIME. I think that is a HUGE part of what gets people's dander so up about this particular issue, IMO. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Silverswift

[Naruhina_94]

I just came off another, very popular, game that I play that just had a major event end.  In that event people could win various pets/items if they entered and participated in a wide variety of games...the pets that are won are actually called 'Exclusives'.  No, not everyone gets them.  In fact, the majority doesn't get them.  Only a scant few get them.  I didn't have time to get into the event and didn't win squat.  A lot of people that did enter to win in just about every game didn't win squat.  And yes, there's a lot of breeding going on over there, too.  No, these pets won't ever be available again for anyone.  And you know what the response was towards the winners? 'Congrats everyone! Congrats you guys!'.....and that was it.  Game over.  Done.  Not one person out of thousands...thousands...threw a fit or complained how UNFAIR it was, and why shouldn't they be able to get it, and....  yeah.  Thank God.  The tone of that site is very different because bad attitudes and throwing tantrums because you didn't win are totally frowned upon over there.  People over there would be flabbergasted...and disgusted... at some of what goes down here and it wouldn't be tolerated.  Over there, it's just an understood fact that some will win, some won't.  It's accepted as the norm and no big deal.  People over there expect others to be good sports and rightly so.  God, when did it become the norm for it to be ok to be a sulky bad sport? When did it become acceptable to show such bad attitudes just because you didn't win something?  And who in the hell lied to you and promised you'd get everything?  That attitude is the norm on this site, God help us all, and imo, that's what needs changing, nothing else.    If people want to leave because they can't get everything, then leave.

I don't want anyone to give me something for free. I want to have a chance to EARN it with my efforts, like I'm earning my CB rare and uncommons right now. Equality for very users, now and in the future for the new ones who will join us.

DC wasn't originally a game where you win a dragon or you won't never be able to obtain it again, and that's what it makes me feel sad and angry.

A system that has ALWAYS worked like you've described won't feel the need to change. DC was different (and better) before prizes were introduced and that's something that a lot of users is saying. I just wish that it could return to be a game that reward efforts over a shiny moment of luck, like it has been before. I don't like to depend on others. Is this wrong? Is wrong that I don't want to beg anyone to play a game as I like?

I don't know how much lineages matter on the game you're talking about, but they're essential in DC. You need to be able to built nice lineages to trade rare things. Even if you don't make any trades at all you should be able to enjoy DC's dragons and mix them as you please.

 

That's why I joined DC, to be free to play alone if I want, not depending on others for trades.

 

I agree with Silverswift. New exclusives are bad looked in DC, I've heard a lot of users claiming that they love DC because there are few of them and I could see only as an improvement if they would be removed.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Naruhina_94