Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[Sir Barton]

And so, to combat the trend that the rich is getting richer, you propose to rob the rich of their wealth and distribute it to the poor.

 

Does the collapse of the USSR and the economic reforms of China remind you of anything?

The fact that anyone would compare a collecting game that doesn't even consist of tangible items to real world economics just disturbs me for some reason. I honestly think some of you folks put too much stock in virtual "wealth."

Edited March 9, 2014 by Sir Barton

[Fuzzbucket]

The fact that anyone would compare a collecting game that does even consist of tangible items to real work economics just disturbs me for some reason. I honestly think some of you folks put too much stock in virtual "wealth."

QFT. I HATE this "wealth"thing in both contexts - but here I REALLY hate it !

[AnanoKimi]

I've never seen it as a wealth thing and personally I dislike it just as much but sadly its true to some extend. With the way some to most users are trying to use prize babies to get what they want in as much quantity as they want really just makes it seem like a poor economic.

 

I don't mind everyone having an opportunity at a prize. As it is everyone that participates has a chance at the prize. Having Older prizes demote to HM give everyone an even bigger chance and allows room for more dragons and personally I would love to see new prize breeds. But we need to think of a way to increase how many there are to help even out some of the trading market. But even if it doesn't even out, if people keep offering crazy amounts of rares for them, if we can spread some of the prize baby love enough, maybe we can help people out by giving them a little more access to prize babies.

[cyradis4]

My view on it is, we've already got too many exclusive dragons in the game already. This game is about collecting the dragons you want. Some people view each dragon with the same sprite as inter-changeable. Many view the lineage of a dragon as part of the dragon.

 

Yes, for those who collect sprites, a 15th gen super inbred is just fine. For those who view the lineage as an important part of their game play, it isn't fine.

 

And there are mathematically not enough CB Prizes at the moment to come even close to satisfying the (growing) demand for 2nd gens to build lineages, even if all CB prizes began breeding 2nd gens like rabbits.

 

The prize sprites make up half of the metallic sprites in the game. Golden Wyverns are pretty, but they aren't a metal. Golds and Silvers have been around since the beginning. Coppers were released in DC's 7th year. So, there are 5 metallic breeds (1 Gold, 1 Silver, 3 Coppers) vs 6 metallic Prize sprites (Gold, Silver and Bronze Tinsels, Gold, Silver, and Bronze Shimmers). At the moment, the Prizes are being released at a rate of 3 every other year. The regular metals are being released at a rate of 3 every SEVEN years.

 

Already there are more exclusive metals than there are regular metals. Already there are more metals that are unusable in even gen lineages than there are metals usable in even gen lineages.

 

And I doubt we're going to get a nice metal release anytime soon. The really nice metals on the completed list? Other than the Coppers, seem to all still *be* on the completed list. Meaning we probably won't see them this year. Its possible there are more being worked on in the background, but again... How many rare metals can the cave support being released each year? And how many prize breeds does one game really need?

 

Release new prize breeds into the cave, so far more people can enjoy them. And keep the same two sets of prize dragons until there are enough of them that a handful of players won't force the 2nd gens to go the way of the dodo bird.

 

C4.

[AnanoKimi]

My view on it is, we've already got too many exclusive dragons in the game already. This game is about collecting the dragons you want. Some people view each dragon with the same sprite as inter-changeable. Many view the lineage of a dragon as part of the dragon.

 

Yes, for those who collect sprites, a 15th gen super inbred is just fine. For those who view the lineage as an important part of their game play, it isn't fine.

 

And there are mathematically not enough CB Prizes at the moment to come even close to satisfying the (growing) demand for 2nd gens to build lineages, even if all CB prizes began breeding 2nd gens like rabbits.

 

The prize sprites make up half of the metallic sprites in the game. Golden Wyverns are pretty, but they aren't a metal. Golds and Silvers have been around since the beginning. Coppers were released in DC's 7th year. So, there are 5 metallic breeds (1 Gold, 1 Silver, 3 Coppers) vs 6 metallic Prize sprites (Gold, Silver and Bronze Tinsels, Gold, Silver, and Bronze Shimmers). At the moment, the Prizes are being released at a rate of 3 every other year. The regular metals are being released at a rate of 3 every SEVEN years.

 

Already there are more exclusive metals than there are regular metals. Already there are more metals that are unusable in even gen lineages than there are metals usable in even gen lineages.

 

And I doubt we're going to get a nice metal release anytime soon. The really nice metals on the completed list? Other than the Coppers, seem to all still *be* on the completed list. Meaning we probably won't see them this year. Its possible there are more being worked on in the background, but again... How many rare metals can the cave support being released each year? And how many prize breeds does one game really need?

 

Release new prize breeds into the cave, so far more people can enjoy them. And keep the same two sets of prize dragons until there are enough of them that a handful of players won't force the 2nd gens to go the way of the dodo bird.

 

C4.

You cannot say for sure that trend of every seven years will continue though. There could be one later on this year, or possibly the next. No one knows. And of course there aren't enough prize breeds to fulfill the demands, that is why demoting older prizes like tinsels who have been around 3-4 years now to HM means allowing a random assortment, not a set few, to get a chance at one. and if the HM pool is increased or even doubled then just imagine the plethora of users who will be able to choose a CB prize. My only issue with that is that one type may be rarer than another. Many users my pick Gold over anything else and very few might pick bronze with silver having the only average number of choices.

 

That could be combated with only being able to pick that you want a prize but not what color. Instead of trying to stop something nice we have, lets first try to see if it can be fixed. It feels like you are off the bat saying "This is not worth saving, just kill it" rather than "It might be hard but lets see if there is any repair to this. If there isn't then lets get rid of it."

 

If you get rid of something you don't like just because you don't like it doesn't mean you're fixing or helping anything. Its a poor attempt of trying to avoid a problem. Before we jump the gun to the "No more prizes!" chant, lets try to see if we can make an attempt at a solution and a compromise that benefits prize breeders and prize seekers.

[DarkEternity]

Gold prizes are 'worth more' -> Become a common prize choice -> more market saturation of gold prizes -> reduced market saturation of silver/bronze prizes -> Silver/Bronze prizes 'worth more' -> Become a common prize choice -> more market saturation of silver/bronze prizes -> reduced market saturation of gold prizes -> Gold prizes are 'worth more'

 

and so on.

 

And so, to combat the trend that the rich is getting richer, you propose to rob the rich of their wealth and distribute it to the poor.

 

Does the collapse of the USSR and the economic reforms of China remind you of anything?

This post outlines the fact that you guys need to decide whether you care more about wealth or getting prize dragons.

 

Wealth/trading power can be generated by creating many different types of exclusive dragons - to force people to trade with each other all the time - without touching prize dragons.

Edited March 10, 2014 by DarkEternity

[AnanoKimi]

Gold prizes are 'worth more' -> Become a common prize choice -> more market saturation of gold prizes -> reduced market saturation of silver/bronze prizes -> Silver/Bronze prizes 'worth more' -> Become a common prize choice -> more market saturation of silver/bronze prizes -> reduced market saturation of gold prizes -> Gold prizes are 'worth more'

 

and so on.

 

 

This post outlines the fact that you guys need to decide whether you care more about wealth or getting prize dragons.

 

Wealth/trading power can be generated by creating many different types of exclusive dragons - to force people to trade with each other all the time - without touching prize dragons.

I want prize dragons. I want to gift them, to see people enjoying a cute as heck 2nd/3rd/4th gen baby. I wanna see lineage makers getting some headway through their projects because there are more prizes thus more babies to go around.

 

Those looking to make them selves 'wealthier' it is up to them how they wanna play. Even if prizes are removed and/or made common, it will not change the fact that metal miners will turn to something else they can make exclusive and then trade for that and those who have what they want will be the ones getting 'richer'.

[DarkEternity]

I want prize dragons. I want to gift them, to see people enjoying a cute as heck 2nd/3rd/4th gen baby. I wanna see lineage makers getting some headway through their projects because there are more prizes thus more babies to go around.

 

Those looking to make them selves 'wealthier' it is up to them how they wanna play. Even if prizes are removed and/or made common, it will not change the fact that metal miners will turn to something else they can make exclusive and then trade for that and those who have what they want will be the ones getting 'richer'.

Something also worth mentioning is that Prize dragons, exclusive that they are, can be obtained: at least by normal players. If the trading market moves permanently to Spriter Alts, for example, and discontinued dragons, let's just say that's not going to be fun.

[cyradis4]

Something also worth mentioning is that Prize dragons, exclusive that they are, can be obtained: at least by normal players. If the trading market moves permanently to Spriter Alts, for example, and discontinued dragons, let's just say that's not going to be fun.

The sprites can be obtained. But they can't be used in lineages, which to me, is the only thing worth doing on DC anymore. I've already got all the sprites, 16 or more times over in many cases.

 

As for retired and spriter alts... I highly doubt they will ever become a "huge thing" even if Prize dragons cease to be a big thing.

 

Simply put: Spriter's Alts and retired dragons don't reproduce their own colors, and as a result tend to be a highly "niche" market. Take a look at Penk, vs regular Silver Tinsels. There are some people who refuse to get Penk lines because of the color shift, and others who specifically collect them. But lines from Penk are no more and no less valuable, *on average*, than any other Silver Tinsel line.

 

So Spriter's Alts will be about the same as they are now, I suspect. Valuable to a collector or in the 2nd gen form, useless to someone who doesn't collect. And 3rd gens already tend to not go for much. I've a 2nd gen Spriter alt, and it produces a lovely perfect checker, Winter Magi x Pillow. Its the only one of its kind, anywhere, as there is only one Pillow 2nd gen from Earthgirl's alts (mine). And I've never gotten a single trade offer on it. I even have trouble lotto'ing the 3rd gens!

 

In short: Even with Prizes being less rare, the (very) niche spriter's alts won't take over. Neither will the (also very niche market) retireds.

 

Finally: There is no way to make 2nd gen Prizes "common". It can't mathematically be done because of the bottleneck of the existing CBs, not without the CB numbers being increased 100 fold, and even then I have my doubts. Realistically, what you're looking at is having them produce enough that they are valued with 2 or 3 CB metals (ie, extremely rare). So they will still dominate the market. They will just be obtainable, and hence usable. Whereas now, they are virtually unobtainable.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[AnanoKimi]

The sprites can be obtained. But they can't be used in lineages, which to me, is the only thing worth doing on DC anymore. I've already got all the sprites, 16 or more times over in many cases.

 

As for retired and spriter alts... I highly doubt they will ever become a "huge thing" even if Prize dragons cease to be a big thing.

 

Simply put: Spriter's Alts and retired dragons don't reproduce their own colors, and as a result tend to be a highly "niche" market. Take a look at Penk, vs regular Silver Tinsels. There are some people who refuse to get Penk lines because of the color shift, and others who specifically collect them. But lines from Penk are no more and no less valuable, *on average*, than any other Silver Tinsel line.

 

So Spriter's Alts will be about the same as they are now, I suspect. Valuable to a collector or in the 2nd gen form, useless to someone who doesn't collect. And 3rd gens already tend to not go for much. I've a 2nd gen Spriter alt, and it produces a lovely perfect checker, Winter Magi x Pillow. Its the only one of its kind, anywhere, as there is only one Pillow 2nd gen from Earthgirl's alts (mine). And I've never gotten a single trade offer on it. I even have trouble lotto'ing the 3rd gens!

 

In short: Even with Prizes being less rare, the (very) niche spriter's alts won't take over. Neither will the (also very niche market) retireds.

 

Finally: There is no way to make 2nd gen Prizes "common". It can't mathematically be done because of the bottleneck of the existing CBs, not without the CB numbers being increased 100 fold, and even then I have my doubts. Realistically, what you're looking at is having them produce enough that they are valued with 2 or 3 CB metals (ie, extremely rare). So they will still dominate the market. They will just be obtainable, and hence usable. Whereas now, they are virtually unobtainable.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Maybe not common, but fairly accessible. It can be possible, I know it can, it might take some time but it will be possible if we tweak the right parts of this new mechanic. Like I said, HM for some time will allow access to the non placement winners, increasing that number or even doubling it will help bring in more CB's to breed. This will allow more 2nd gens to be produced.

 

And as much as I can see your distress about being unable to create all the lineages you want, it is something that is now a part of this game that many enjoy. Even other lineage makers are being realistic about those goals and treating them as low priority over more attainable things. Really you cant let that one aspect bother you when there is still more to do. Even if its not the lineage you like then try to just work with what you have until it gets better.

 

Forcing a part of the game to change just because you can't do what you want isn't very fair for the ones who enjoy it mostly with how it is.

[RainDear]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

I have all the Tinsels and Shimmers I require. I would like to see and collect new prizes. I have never understood the complaint "no one else should have anything I don't or can't have." and I never will. OK, I don't have many pretty lineaged Tinsels or Shimmers and I can't trade their babies- so what? I didn't start the Tinsel or Shimmer lineages I have, I didn't plan them my own way, and sometimes I can't continue their lines- so what? I collected the sprites, I have them on my scroll. Sometimes I am asked for eggs from them. That's enough for me. I am here to collect different dragons, and I do not welcome suggestions to limit the dragons I can collect. This suggestion would mean that for me there will be no reason for me to collect more Tinsels or Shimmers, ever. I have the ones I want, and I look forward to collecting new prize dragons.

[hazeh]

I think that the amount of prize dragons should be keep consistent, at the very least. Should there more prize dragons released in the future, their numbers should match the amount of pre-existing prizes already on scrolls. Then as HM allows for more CB prizes of past generations to be obtained, the number of released prize in the future can likewise increase.

Also, I was thinking, if the CB Tinsels/Shimmers were to be demoted to HM status, instead of allowing users to specify which color alt of Prize they desire, the option could read as "CB Tinsel" or "CB Shimmerscale" and the color of the dragon itself is either randomized or chosen per calculations of the ratio of existing color alts.

For example, if 60 people out of 100 HM winners chose "CB Tinsel", then a random selection of 15 would get Gold Tinsels, 20 would get Silver, and 30 would get bronze.

*brain storms*

[bluebell_rose]

Hmm.

I'm in favor of the opposite, actually. I support more and different prize breeds EVERY raffle. I think keeping Tinsels and Shimmers as the only prize breeds is well, kind of lame.

I'm a CB tinsel owner from the first wave, and I'm very proud of that. He is special to me. The more CB tinsels and Shimmers you introduce, the less value they have for the original owners. I was a bit disappointed that CB tinsels were prizes again, because my CB Bronze was no longer one of the 30 or so CB Bronze Tinsels in existence. You're reducing the value of the prize- Which, as a PRIZE, should not be done- simply because non-winners want what they didn't win.

Look, I understand that getting your hands on a 2nd gen is really difficult. But to me, just adding in MORE into the pool makes the accomplishment less special. Like with CB medals-- now that so many people have them, they're not as valuable/ special.

I want my CB tinsel to remain the prize he was originally intended as. If you keep giving everyone the same prize year after year, the prize no longer really feels like a prize.

 

A new prize dragon every raffle keeps the game strong, and it gives people something to work for. Increase the amount of people that get them that year? Sure, why not. But re-releasing prizes year after year is not the way to go.

And do you not think original cb holly owners are not complaining their holly worth is slowly depreciating? How do you think the cb holly owners feel? Every year honorable mentions can win cb hollies, further diluting the value on the original 60 cb hollies .

 

If the cb holly owners can take the depreciation, you as a cb tinsel owner can take it too. Should i get mad if you gained a cb holly though the raffle, diluting the value of mine? When it was gained mostly though sheer luck? And original cb holly owners actually had to sift though the reg dragons to catch the cb holly instead of receiving one with little to no work at all

Edited March 31, 2014 by bluebell_rose

[Tazzay]

I'm honestly not picky about prizes at all. Sure, they can be a pain to collect, but that adds to the challenge of it. I welcome each new dragon, be it common or prizes, with open arms. New prize? Great! Another beautiful dragon to drool over and collect, I love shiny dragons. It's all in the fun.

 

But no more new prize breeds? That doesn't sound exciting.

 

I'd love a new breed every two years, to keep the fun going. It's a nice surprise.

[Brite]

Agreed there's already a large amount of prizes, enough to where I'm sick of them. I skim over half the posts on trading boards because they're nothing but tinsels/shimmers.

 

To be honest, If I won the next raffle, I'd choose a CB holly or a CB frill over a tinsel/shimmer. What would be an amazing if TJ let us pick out old bright pinks as a prize. I'd deff go for that.

 

Edit:

 

Retiring them? Not a good idea. There will be an uproar to get low gens and people owning offspring of CB prizes that went inactive would take major advantage and become rather greedy. For example the person with the ONLY other tinsel grand-offspring(I believe) of Booo (Who's scroll was burned) already demands many metals before they breed a 4th gen.

Edited March 31, 2014 by GhostChilli

[Concept]

My opinion? I don't play for lines or breeding. Some people don't. I like to collect. I do like things people come out with in their lines or the care others put into arranging it, but that's REALLY not all of the game... And if the biggest gripe here is that prizes make up half the metals... Why not request that more metals be released? ...or even that new prizes be classified by a system other than metals? .... I really don't see how something intended to be massively rare can be afforded to everyone just because they want them.

 

Because then you probably wouldn't want them anymore.

 

To me, I say bring on the prizes. I get tired of the same old colors but I enjoy new designs and if people want to 'pay' virtual dragons for a virtual dragon that has a very short lineage... Not really my problem. I'm amused but really its what its worth to them, and all that ends up being is bragging rights.

 

Seriously. Rather than say no prizes, ask for more metals. If that's REALLY the problem then that's what you want, more shiny lines.

[hazeh]

And do you not think original cb holly owners are not complaining their holly worth is slowly depreciating? How do you think the cb holly owners feel? Every year honorable mentions can win cb hollies, further diluting the value on the original 60 cb hollies .

 

If the cb holly owners can take the depreciation, you as a cb tinsel owner can take it too. Should i get mad if you gained a cb holly though the raffle, diluting the value of mine? When it was gained mostly though sheer luck? And original cb holly owners actually had to sift though the reg dragons to catch the cb holly instead of receiving one with little to no work at all

No, I don't find the two very comparable. A holly is a holiday dragon, not a prize. That would be more like saying, "No new holiday breeds until Hollies are spread around enough". I won Brazen from the original competition, not a raffle. Yes, people can get CB holidays as their HM. I've already mentioned that I wouldn't mind if Tinsels became an HM prize so that other people can get CBs if they wanted. However, I don't agree with having Tinsels and Shimmers as the only two prize breeds available when giving out actual first, second, and third place prizes. Prizes should be unique each year to their winners, just like Holidays are unique each year to their holiday.

That would be more akin to saying, "There aren't enough Hollies to go around, let's make every Christmas release a Holly release until we're satisfied with the holly distribution".

There is a difference.

[Brite]

No, I don't find the two very comparable. A holly is a holiday dragon, not a prize. That would be more like saying, "No new holiday breeds until Hollies are spread around enough". I won Brazen from the original competition, not a raffle. Yes, people can get CB holidays as their HM. I've already mentioned that I wouldn't mind if Tinsels became an HM prize so that other people can get CBs if they wanted. However, I don't agree with having Tinsels and Shimmers as the only two prize breeds available when giving out actual first, second, and third place prizes. Prizes should be unique each year to their winners, just like Holidays are unique each year to their holiday.

That would be more akin to saying, "There aren't enough Hollies to go around, let's make every Christmas release a Holly release until we're satisfied with the holly distribution".

There is a difference.

Good point. This would make raffles not exciting at all. If everyone has one(even if it isn't CB, but then again there would be no point because others can breed great lineage just like any other CB owner) it would be more like "Oh, I won…meh, should I even bother collecting my prize?… better question is, do I even WANT to?"

 

However, I don't see the original Tinsels losing value..that much. Sure, in the beginning, people would offer arms and legs for generations as long as 10 of the tinsels, but I don't see your tinsel losing all of it's value. There are a lot of users that prefer generations from the original tinsel set and refuse to trade for any of the new ones. This goes for the hollies too. I myself prefer an egg with a generation from the original 60.

Edited April 17, 2014 by GhostChilli

[hazeh]

Good point. This would make raffles not exciting at all. If everyone has one(even if it isn't CB, but then again there would be no point because others can breed great lineage just like any other CB owner) it would be more like "Oh, I won…meh, should I even bother collecting my prize?… better question is, do I even WANT to?"

 

However, I don't see the original Tinsels losing value..that much. Sure, in the beginning, people would offer arms and legs for generations as long as 10 of the tinsels, but I don't see your tinsel losing all of it's value. There are a lot of users that prefer generations from the original tinsel set and refuse to trade for any of the new ones. This goes for the hollies too. I myself prefer an egg with a generation from the original 60.

Oh no, I wouldn't expect my tinsel to lose all of its value. As others have stated, it's basically impossible for them to become "common" status or so wide spread that they lose much of their original worth. However, they still do go down in value--- not by much, and to me it's not the sense that I couldn't trade their offspring like before, because I don't. It's the original value versus a continuous degradation.

The issue I still have is with the sentiment. I was given this super awesome special dragon, only in the next coming years to discover it was still being distributed. I was disappointed for both myself and for the new winners because I had hoped that my prize had remained my prize, and that the new prizes would be unique to the new winners. They're like secondhand prizes now, which for such a special event, just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Brite]

Oh no, I wouldn't expect my tinsel to lose all of its value. As others have stated, it's basically impossible for them to become "common" status or so wide spread that they lose much of their original worth. However, they still do go down in value--- not by much, and to me it's not the sense that I couldn't trade their offspring like before, because I don't. It's the original value versus a continuous degradation.

The issue I still have is with the sentiment. I was given this super awesome special dragon, only in the next coming years to discover it was still being distributed. I was disappointed for both myself and for the new winners because I had hoped that my prize had remained my prize, and that the new prizes would be unique to the new winners. They're like secondhand prizes now, which for such a special event, just doesn't sit well with me.

Okay, true. Yes I agree with you. I didn't think it was "fair" for the new winners. Here's how I felt.

 

The original release of the first prizes: Wow that's awesome, unique prize dragons! The next raffle: Oh..okay more tinsels, I guess that's cool. Next raffle and new prizes: Oh, shimmers, those are kinda cool. Last year's raffle: Tinsels again…seriously?

 

My mini solution is new ideas. Do we really need new prizes EVERY year? What about HM prizes with picked out codes? I'd friggin do anything to be able to make my own code, even for a very common dragon. That'd make amazing lineages.

[MessengerDragon]

I find shimmers are getting steadily more common. They breed well, and I've seen lots in departure threads. The opinion about breeding is based on my dragons, though. I don't know how low gens breed.

[5icky]

I personally want to see a new prize presented... It seems at first like the other prizes get old, until you see the new ones. However i'm fond of the idea of a fresh start every 2-3 years...

[edwardelricfreak]

I personally want to see a new prize presented... It seems at first like the other prizes get old, until you see the new ones. However i'm fond of the idea of a fresh start every 2-3 years...

^^Yes this^^

[MoonShark]

Although not increasing the Prize pool has some plusses (eventually the breeding pools are big enough that everyone might have relatively easy access to 2Gs; with more CBs out there perhaps less harassment of new winners will occur), I think that never having new Prize breeds would be unfortunate. I like the idea of having a new breed every few years, while still releasing the other breeds as well. Considering how few prizes are given out each year, I doubt that it would really affect the breeding pool too much.

[Aniusia483]

I agree with this suggestion.

 

There should be no really exclusive dragons... rare is enough. But unobtainable? Nope.

I personally don't care that much about lineages, but majority does. And what if sb's goal is to collect CBs of all breeds? It's still hardly possible now, so...