Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) This is coming out of the "Ways to Improve The Raffle" threads. We have no idea what the plans are regarding new prize sprites, but I'd just like to get out that some of us would prefer no more new Prize breeds, without hijacking one of the other threads. Idea: - Always keep the same two sets of Prize Dragons: Shimmers and Tinsels, in every raffle. - In other words, please don't introduce yet another set of Prize dragon sprites. Reason: CB Prizes are extraordinarily rare, hence the scarcity of low gens Many people care about their dragon's lineages, as is exemplified by how many times messy lineaged eggs, even if they are ER, get tossed back into the AP, sometimes many times (I've at times past picked up the same messy egg dozens of times over the course of an hour). The existing set of 6 Prize sprites is over half of the "shiny metal" sprites in the cave Adding still more shiny metal sprites that the vast majority of the userbase can't use how they want would create even more unhappyness than there already is. See above, about many people caring about their dragon's lineage. Having low gens to use for lineages matters to a lot of people. Releasing Prizes into the main cave could be problematic and probably unfair to prize owners, and counter to what at least one spriter feels. If new prizes sprites are created and the old retired without some provision for new blood, the existing 6 in low gen versions will go the way of the dodo bird even faster than the Hollies were headed that way. See earlier point, about many people caring about lineages. This would of course be subject to change in later years. If its found in 4 or 5 years that the 2nd gen Prizes are much more obtainable for a wider selection, then a review of if the userbase would want a new breed would be in order. Additional points: - Some people are suggesting that so long as the existing prizes are still released, adding an additional breed is ok. - My personal opinion is that 6 exclusive extremely rare breeds (in CB and low gen) is enough. I think that's it. If anyone can post any other Pros / Cons, then I'll add them to the first post. Cheers! C4. Edited February 9, 2014 by cyradis4 Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I totally support this. It will mean an increase of CBs with every raffle, but no more mileage for "NO FAIR this is ANOTHER new dragon I can't have." And also an end to the begging for the prize dragons to be released in cave, no matter HOW many years in the future this might be hoped for. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I know that it would make things messy, but I'd really like to see new prize dragons every now and then. =U Just not introducing new ones doesn't fix any of the other problems we're experiencing. It seems more like a band-aid fix to me. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I know that it would make things messy, but I'd really like to see new prize dragons every now and then. =U Just not introducing new ones doesn't fix any of the other problems we're experiencing. It seems more like a band-aid fix to me. But it does. Because without any NEW ones there won't be MORE "I can't have it" gripes, and there will also be an increasing pool of the existing ones. Can we not have all the nice ones you want to see released in cave - more nice ones for EVERYONE to catch ? Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I agree with this completely. My goal is to have one male and one female 2nd gen of each color of each prize dragon. That is already a HUGE challenge because of the rarity and expense of low gens. Adding more species of prize dragons as said would just make more people unhappy because it's just another thing on DC that will be for the most part impossible to obtain. The only possible downside I see to this is people getting bored with the same prizes which to me isn't a very convincing argument. So I fully support this. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I support this 100%. As it is, adding new breeds as Prize only dragons would mean having more "almost impossible to get as a CB or a low gen" dragons, which would just increase the issues we have now. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 This has my full support. We have a Western and an Eastern dragon in our prize pool which is a nice balance. Each year more CBs of those two breeds will be given out, provided that we continue to have raffles, so their stock of low gens will gradually grow much like Hollies have. We have regular new releases to satisfy our need for new dragons, and sticking with just two styles of prize dragon will lessen the amount of drama that comes up at raffle time. Thumbs up. I don't see any real cons with this suggestion. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I support this. I'd maybe be okay with new prizes if they are released alongside Tins and Shimmers as prizes, as long as Tins and Shimmers still had the same number of 'winners.' The new prizes would add to the prize pool number, not dilute it. Or if Shimmers and Tins are regulated to HM status(increase to HMs?). Edited to clarify my point. Edited February 10, 2014 by Draco Knight Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Well, I started on of the other threads so I thought it would be logical to give my input here too On one hand I like the idea of permanently having Shimmers and Tinsels as prizes for the raffles and never getting any other breeds. If that would happen, releasing the prize dragons wouldn't be necessary indeed and that particular topic might become moot. However, the point of the (very?) low population of CB shimmers & tinsels (and possible resulting 2nd gens and such) wouldn't, imho, be solved with only keeping them in the raffles as a sole solution. While this was one of the reasons to start the whole "Improve the raffle" thread...... Also, I think it would be fun to see more types of dragons as prizes, like pygmies, lindwurms, etc. I know I've already seen people being disappointed regularly that holiday dragons are only "normal" breeds, as in breeds that can be combined with most of the other dragons released instead of one of the more special breeds, like pygmies, two-headeds, etc. So... I don't know to be honest. And yes, I do have prize dragons. And NO, none of them are CB or 2nd gen. All were very generous gifts for which I'm very grateful! Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I don't support this. I would like to see new prize dragons added from time to time to keep things "fresh." I respect that a lot of people are upset that they can't get low-gens of the prizes, but I think we must also remember that there's no rule that says everyone is entitled to a low-gen prize or that everyone should be able to get everything they want. There's this prevailing idea that DC is (or used to be) intended to be a game where everyone could get everything they desire if they try hard enough and I don't see any evidence that this is true, and in any case, you can get a higher-gen for free. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I say, instead of prize breeds, release new breeds as normal breeds, in the cave. A new Rare species like Golds or Silvers could work. Or, have them earned in a way that EVERYONE can get one in CB version, if they put in enough effort. Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I agree that we don't need more prize breeds. Shimmers and tinsels work well and eventually, it really would be nice for people to be able to get low-gens. Even without adding new breeds, it'll still be fun for collectors to try and get all the different prize lineages. Not to mention, it would allow for some truly awesome even lineages. Those lineages are hard to do when there's very few prize dragons. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I don't support this at all. I love seeing new prizes come out, and look forward to the possibility of new dragons every raffle. I am a person that makes every attempt to get cb's of all new breeds, but I have no problem with dragons that I will never have cbs of. A few people's hurt feelings over not getting cbs shouldn't ruin the fun other people have collecting new breeds. Just because a lineage is long doesn't make it less pretty/clean. And you will have messy lineages come from ANY breed, bred by whoever wants to. I don't see that being a valid point at all as to why there shouldn't be new prize dragons. I'm just posting a counter view point here. To me, any prevention of a new dragon breed to play with is a con. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 [*]The existing set of 6 Prize sprites is over half of the "shiny metal" sprites in the cave Just one question - why 'over half'? 3 Tinsels + 3 Shimmer-scales = 6 Prize sprites. Gold + Silver + Gold Wyvern + 3 Coppers = 6 regular metallic sprites. (Assuming dimorphism doesn't count; if it does count, 2 Gold + 2 Silver + 2 Gold Wyvern + 6 Coppers = 12 regular metallic sprites.) Not objecting to the OP (not supporting, either, I'm entirely neutral about this), but I was wondering about the numbers. Hope that's okay. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Undecided about the always and forever, but in general yes, for several more years at least. I think it would be sort of like hollies, it's nearly impossible to bargain for low gens at first, simply because of scarcity. As time goes on they become easier to get. Although I think at some point we might reach saturation. Notice how the holly trading threads went from pleading for nearly any holly, to being a lot more picky about lineage? Many more people this year were hopeful about being able to get nice second and third gens because the supply is coming ever closer to meeting the demand. Hopefully by the time prizes get to that point we will have come up with an alternative to the way the raffle works currently. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Just one question - why 'over half'? 3 Tinsels + 3 Shimmer-scales = 6 Prize sprites. Gold + Silver + Gold Wyvern + 3 Coppers = 6 regular metallic sprites. (Assuming dimorphism doesn't count; if it does count, 2 Gold + 2 Silver + 2 Gold Wyvern + 6 Coppers = 12 regular metallic sprites.) Not objecting to the OP (not supporting, either, I'm entirely neutral about this), but I was wondering about the numbers. Hope that's okay. Probably because someone somewhere said that while coppers are metals, the sprites aren't SHINY ! Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 I don't support this at all. I love seeing new prizes come out, and look forward to the possibility of new dragons every raffle. I am a person that makes every attempt to get cb's of all new breeds, but I have no problem with dragons that I will never have cbs of. A few people's hurt feelings over not getting cbs shouldn't ruin the fun other people have collecting new breeds. Just because a lineage is long doesn't make it less pretty/clean. And you will have messy lineages come from ANY breed, bred by whoever wants to. I don't see that being a valid point at all as to why there shouldn't be new prize dragons. I'm just posting a counter view point here. To me, any prevention of a new dragon breed to play with is a con. But it isn't preventing a new breed. Any breed that could become a prize dragon could just as easily be a regular release. The Shimmer was created as a new rare to be released into the cave before it turned into a prize instead. No new prize breed does not equate with that breed not being released for all players to enjoy. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Just one question - why 'over half'? 3 Tinsels + 3 Shimmer-scales = 6 Prize sprites. Gold + Silver + Gold Wyvern + 3 Coppers = 6 regular metallic sprites. (Assuming dimorphism doesn't count; if it does count, 2 Gold + 2 Silver + 2 Gold Wyvern + 6 Coppers = 12 regular metallic sprites.) Not objecting to the OP (not supporting, either, I'm entirely neutral about this), but I was wondering about the numbers. Hope that's okay. Honestly? I don't count either Golden Wyverns nor Coppers as shiny. I love Golden Wyverns, but they are common / uncommon, easy to get and not considered rare at any generation, and are golden, not gold . And Coppers, which I also love, are not shiny, they are dull (they decided to do away with the really shiny version...) So what I'm counting here is, 6 Prize sprites vs Golds, Silvers, and 3 Coppers: 6 vs 5. New Prize dragons would shift this even further, in the Prize dragons favor. Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 But it isn't preventing a new breed. Any breed that could become a prize dragon could just as easily be a regular release. The Shimmer was created as a new rare to be released into the cave before it turned into a prize instead. No new prize breed does not equate with that breed not being released for all players to enjoy. THIS. We could use more GENERAL releases. Dragons everyone can get without hard feelings all round. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) THIS. We could use more GENERAL releases. Dragons everyone can get without hard feelings all round. And there really aren't any bad feelings when a new rare species is released? Look at the copper and bluna release, there are/were plenty of upset people when those were released. My point is, there is no way to make everyone happy, it just isn't possible. Edited February 9, 2014 by Nectaris Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Personally... no. I disagree. Now, I have one 2nd gen tinsel, which was more gift than trade, and I only rarely trade off the offspring, it's not something I wanted for "trade leverage". That aside I'm currently in the same pot as the majority of DC; wanting very much to have low-gen prize dragons, but being unable to wield the sort of trade leverage needed to acquire one. But that's ok, the prize dragons, in and of themselves, aren't actually all that rare; I've got a bunch of every sprite (am very willing to breed them for anyone who doesn't yet), and if their lineages aren't the cream of the crop, well, so be it. The prize dragons, in and of themselves, are fairly accessible to the majority of DC users, it's just the low gen, "rare line" prize dragons that are difficult to obtain. And that is exactly why everyone wants them. Because they're difficult to obtain. They're "rare" and therefore trade leverage. This isn't about accessibility of prize dragons for all, this is about trade leverage for all. Unfortunately, if everyone obtains this particular trade leverage, then it in turn becomes largely worthless. The second point which makes me disagree with this, is that sticking to only two prizes and expanding upon these two CB and low gen breeding pools is that doing so is no guarantee of those pools being evenly distributed. There are certain members who are more active and motivated, and yes, those with better connections (both figurative and literally), those who can get what most of us can't on a regular basis, who will wind up with the majority of these breeding pools. What I'm trying to say is, increase in production does not necessarily mean increase in distribution. For instance, it's been how many years since tinsels were first released? And I'm certainly not a lot more likely to be able to trade for a 2nd gen tinsel now than I was when they came out. Third point leans largely on the first two, in that, since I really don't see how a limited prize base will allow me any much greater chance at acquiring those mythical low-gen pretties, or the trade leverage they imply, I would much rather get to see new shinies in the cave. New releases are always exciting, and I enjoy getting to see what new dragons we can get. Even if it's a limited edition holiday release or prize, since DC allows breeding of limited edition dragons, we can all have a chance to acquire the sprite at some point. And even if I'm all for line-snobbery and low gen pretties, I'm also glad to be able to have my own sprite of the dragons I like, regardless of lineage. tl;dr - Not a bad idea, but not, I believe, very much fun in the long run. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 And there really aren't any bad feelings when a new rare species is released? Look at the copper and bluna release, there are/were plenty of upset people when those were released. My point is, there is no way to make everyone happy, it just isn't possible. Blusangs, actually. But Blusangs are not rare anymore, at best uncommon. Both the fuss over them and Coppers have died down with time, as they started to spread. The uproar over the Prizes is getting worst not better. Cheers! C4. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 Blusangs, actually. But Blusangs are not rare anymore, at best uncommon. Both the fuss over them and Coppers have died down with time, as they started to spread. The uproar over the Prizes is getting worst not better. Cheers! C4. Yeah, I meant to say blusang. Anyways, every time a new rare is released there is the same drama, and the only reason there is any drama over the prizes is because the raffle recently happened. Like the blusangs and coppers, the drama had died down considerably between the raffles. Share this post Link to post
Posted February 9, 2014 And there really aren't any bad feelings when a new rare species is released? Look at the copper and bluna release, there are/were plenty of upset people when those were released. My point is, there is no way to make everyone happy, it just isn't possible. But they CAN be caught by anyone, they are just tough to find. Share this post Link to post
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