ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

[JavaTigress]

Well for those of us hoping to get more that one shiny baby in a multiclutch that want to multi clutch theres that whole Moonstone multiclutch BSA thread happening in the BSA suggestions so those that want to have the ability to multi clutch can, and thsoe who would rather not (like whitebaron stated at some point) don't have to.

 

This way its not imposed, this way its not forced, and as with all things within this game, people are given the freedom to play as they like.

 

Also yes the dog piling does cause stress but most of all the complaints in threads like this where prize owners are seen as some kind of lineage or collection inhibitors where because of us they cant get what they want is what just stresses me out the most.

 

You're guide should definitely be stickied though. I'm sure it will definitely help many new time place winners and even some HM winners who decide to take on the responsibility of getting a CB Holly or CB Hybrid.

Oh, it wasn't MY guide... someone else pointed me to it, cus I asked them to.

 

I THINK that they were planning on dusting it off and such for the new crop of winners... maybe then would be the time for it to be stickied?

 

I also agree with Olympe that picking MORE winners MIGHT be a better solution all the way around. LESS disappointment in forums ( THOUGH don't get me wrong, of course , there would still be those that didn't win and would be less than happy about it), and more availability of 2G. Might improve the trade economy aroudn here, too.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Silverswift

[cyradis4]

And why is it that people do this dogpiling? Because there are only a very select few CB prizes, but at least hundreds of forum members who want to try and secure themselves a 2nd gen (since they can't have a CB).

 

I think the solution to this problem is not the introduction of multiclutches, but a vast increase in the number of prize dragons given out, plus (maybe) improved breeding ratios. Which is an entirely different suggestion.

I agree that the fundamental problem this is trying to solve is the total number of CB Prizes. I think a BSA multi-clutch would help in general with the problems very commons are experiencing right now, too.

 

I think there's a thread out there from last year (it might have gotten deleted), where people were asking for a higher number of prizes. There were a number of CB prize owners posting. Some were like AnomiKim, and wanted an increase. Some were already pissed off about Tinsels / Shimmers being released additional years.

 

And there was also another thread, asking that only Tinsels and Shimmers ever be released as Prizes for the raffles (or at least that a number of years pass with just them), so there'd be no new Prize sprites to make things even nastier. Again, that fell into two very distinct categories: those that agreed, and those that wanted a new Prize sprite every year.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think the reason this thread keeps going off in multiple directions is because the point this suggestion addresses (making low gen prizes more available) is so deeply intertwined with how the raffle works in general.

 

Personally I think a lot more prizes + changes to how breeding works (see BSA: Boost) and optional multiclutch (see BSA: Multiply) are better solutions.

 

 

[olympe]

Personally, I'm not a great fan of stockpiling even more BSA on the simple breed action. People aren't just greedy, whiny and in need of feeling in control, we're also lazy. That's right, lazy. And putting a mere 3 BSAs on a single breeding (find BSA dragon, go to actions page, search for target dragon, enter password - for each and every single BSA, mind you) is effort. Which goes against human laziness.

[JavaTigress]

Personally, I'm not a great fan of stockpiling even more BSA on the simple breed action. People aren't just greedy, whiny and in need of feeling in control, we're also lazy. That's right, lazy. And putting a mere 3 BSAs on a single breeding (find BSA dragon, go to actions page, search for target dragon, enter password - for each and every single BSA, mind you) is effort. Which goes against human laziness.

True, people are lazy, BUT... IF there is something of value in it for them, then they can be motivated.

 

WHICH is sort of why I think ADP's suggestion COULD work.

A person wouldn't HAVE to use it unless they chose to, and it isn't a thing that would need to be applied to every breeding of every dragon. My only question is how it would influence ratios... which TJ is keen on preserving, and which we as users, admittedly, know very little about.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Silverswift

[olympe]

Yeah, if you only have one CB prize you want to use all these BSAs on, that would work. But what about the 6+ 2nd gens you traded for with your own 2nd gens? What about the numerous 3rd gens, probably even pretty checkers? What about all those CB golds and silvers you got for some of your 2nd gen prize offspring? See where this goes? Breeding your shinies will soon turn into an arduous task.

[AnanoKimi]

I think the reason this thread keeps going off in multiple directions is because the point this suggestion addresses (making low gen prizes more available) is so deeply intertwined with how the raffle works in general.

 

Personally I think a lot more prizes + changes to how breeding works (see BSA: Boost) and optional multiclutch (see BSA: Multiply) are better solutions.

Yeah I think this should definitely help.

 

I think there's a thread out there from last year (it might have gotten deleted), where people were asking for a higher number of prizes. There were a number of CB prize owners posting. Some were like AnomiKim, and wanted an increase. Some were already pissed off about Tinsels / Shimmers being released additional years.

 

And there was also another thread, asking that only Tinsels and Shimmers ever be released as Prizes for the raffles (or at least that a number of years pass with just them), so there'd be no new Prize sprites to make things even nastier. Again, that fell into two very distinct categories: those that agreed, and those that wanted a new Prize sprite every year.

 

Those along with this and the "remove all prize dragons" thread were the super hot topics that year.

I was completely on board for this and improved ratios, on top of expanding the breeding pool. I even suggested that if people wanted new sprites that first of all the existing pool of CBs had to increase before we could think of demoting prizes to HM or retiring them entirely.

 

But like ADP says, More winner spots plus ratio improvement (either a revamp or boost BSA) and maybe multi clutch as a BSA would definitely help improve the situation.

 

Not just one thing over everything else but all in all everything put together in one go.

I was also part of the group that didnt like each individual aspect having to be split into their own thread because each aspect is basically intertwined with the other and there is no concrete way of just dealing with one. Higher ups have the final word though so oh well.

 

Oh, it wasn't MY guide... someone else pointed me to it, cus I asked them to.

 

Well whomever made it doesnt matter what matters is that it should be front and center and when prize winners are announce TJ could also have the courtesy to point it out in the OP so that new prize winners can take a gander and at least ground themselves for whats to come.

[Amazon_warrior]

Well whomever made it doesnt matter what matters is that it should be front and center and when prize winners are announce TJ could also have the courtesy to point it out in the OP so that new prize winners can take a gander and at least ground themselves for whats to come.

I wrote it; I don't know if there's much point bumping it before we've had an official raffle announcement though, it might just cause confusion at the moment.

[Syphoneira]

Amazon_warrior wrote the Bible on the Winner's Guide, and did a fabulous job.

 

I'd say it should be stickied NOW, and people be made aware that even if getting in first and fastest is normally the way to get on lists, that because of sheer numbers, new winners might be literally flattened by this.

 

 

I don't know if a thread where people could post their offers where winners could (privately) select those they'd accept would work?

 

If something like that could be done and publicized, that might cut back a great deal on inbox flooding, and give winners a chance to think about what they want to do and accept from an arms-length perspective.

 

Ironically, I removed my last (quoted) post because it was being written as a Mod was cleaning the thread and I thought it likely to be perceived as off-topic.

 

However, I did think this idea might be worth floating, as a means of reducing pressure on new winners, while allowing the players able to do so to make offers.

 

Edit: failed to notice I'd been ed by the author, much as I'd failed to notice earlier I'd been ed by the Mod - probably a hint that I ought to just curl up with a nice Jackie Chan movie...

Edited January 7, 2015 by Syphoneira

[_Sin_]

I think there's a thread out there from last year (it might have gotten deleted), where people were asking for a higher number of prizes. There were a number of CB prize owners posting. Some were like AnomiKim, and wanted an increase. Some were already pissed off about Tinsels / Shimmers being released additional years.

I just went through the Suggestions/Requests topics and cannot find one that specifically asks for increasing the percentage of raffle winners. There was a topic " Suggestions to improve the raffle" but was closed by TJ stating 'Each of those "base suggestions" should be in its own thread'.

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...0entry8023991

That considered, would I get in trouble starting a topic about "winners percentages?"

[AnanoKimi]

Well aside from trying to find a way to implement a form of this and some of the other suggestions, having this thread front and center would not only inform new raffle participants but hopefully educate those who try to dog pile on prize winners the moment they win.

 

Adding to this guide or making a separate about "The Dos and Don'ts of contacting prize owners" Might also aleviate some of that initial confusion for first time winners.

 

All in all we need so much to happen I feel we might just be making TJ feel even more and more lazy and overwhelmed by it all

 

I'm sorry TJ

[cyradis4]

I just went through the Suggestions/Requests topics and cannot find one that specifically asks for increasing the percentage of raffle winners. There was a topic " Suggestions to improve the raffle" but was closed by TJ stating 'Each of those "base suggestions" should be in its own thread'.

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...0entry8023991

That considered, would I get in trouble starting a topic about "winners percentages?"

There's something wonky about the Search feature, and a number of threads that everyone knew did exist took a Mod or a recourse to Google to find. So I don't think it'd be a problem, worse come to worse it just gets merged with another thread (like the others have, when the previous thread was finally found).

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Syphoneira]

I wrote it; I don't know if there's much point bumping it before we've had an official raffle announcement though, it might just cause confusion at the moment.

 

 

Wouldn't it help people to read it first?

 

I mean that SQUEEEEE!!!!! moment is pretty much going to scatter all braincells, and probably the lat thing they'll think of is being sensible, unless forewarned, (and maybe even then, lol,) but if people (at least those on the forums,) have read it first, that might really help them, because the advice would *already be there* at a time when they might not absorb much other new information - and before they do anything they might regret later.

[AnanoKimi]

*snip* That considered, would I get in trouble starting a topic about "winners percentages?"

There is a possibility it might have been deleted, or as C4 has mentioned, merged elsewhere. I would say give it a try and state that you did try and search or such a thread with no results. This way we have a topic directed at increasing the winner pool to ensure more CB dragons are given as prizes and move one step closer to a hopefully happier DC userbase and new prize dragons.

[Obscure_Trash]

There's something wonky about the Search feature, and a number of threads that everyone knew did exist took a Mod or a recourse to Google to find. So I don't think it'd be a problem, worse come to worse it just gets merged with another thread (like the others have, when the previous thread was finally found).

 

Cheers!

C4.

I just want to point out that mods have the same exact search as users. However, even before I was modded (and I think this may have been one of the reasons I was modded - I was always the one sending off reports of dupes with links to the original threads), I had good recall for the names of threads or phrases that were used in the threads so I can do more specific searches to find things.

 

While more winners has come up before and I know we discussed percentages, it does not seem to have ever made it to its own thread. Here is where we discussed it, though, if anybody is interested: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=147301

 

Suggestion #1:

Increase the number of prize dragons given in the raffle.

 

One suggestion is to increase the number of prizes [including HM] to be 1% of the raffle entries. So 1 in 100 people who enter would win something. True, it would devalue the 2nd gens some, but not significantly. However, the plus of also spreading out the PMs between the extra winners would balance it. It also means that getting a low gen prize is not just a pipe dream for the average non-winner because there would be roughly ten times the number of prize dragons, so even if they still can't afford a 2nd gen, a 3rd or 4th wouldn't be out of their reach. If two raffles per dragon are desired, .5% might be better so it would be a total of 1% after both raffles.

 

Remember that the prize dragons would still be exclusive. Fewer than 1% of users would have that dragon, and fewer still your color.

 

One idea to help with the increased time it would take to select all the winners [due to non-responders and therefore redraws] would be to select more winners than are desired, perhaps by as much as 5 to 10% over for the first round of emails. So if there's 400 winners he would send out an extra 20 to 40 emails, all of which would be for the HM slot since there is the ability to upgrade. Given the 30% non-response rate this year, it's unlikely that he would end up with more winners than are desired, and even if he ends up with extra winners they would all be HM winners, not prize dragon winners.

 

But this is not on topic - if people could please bring questions to an appropriate place in the future (PM a mod or post in Help or even Forum Feedback), that'd be wonderful. <3

Edited January 7, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[whitebaron]

And why is it that people do this dogpiling? Because there are only a very select few CB prizes, but at least hundreds of forum members who want to try and secure themselves a 2nd gen (since they can't have a CB).

The main people "pressuring" owners are mainly those who want a lot more in terms of lineages out of the prizes. To put it very bluntly: OLD players try to squeeze as much out of the newer players who won prizes. They might pay enough or they might not, the fact of the matter is, that many try to get on lists just because.

 

And that is one of the main reasons, that I do oppose this suggestion. It would not serve to relieve that stress, as any egg not going to "the lists" would increase frustration and the likelihood to quit.

[AnanoKimi]

The main people "pressuring" owners are mainly those who want a lot more in terms of lineages out of the prizes. To put it very bluntly: OLD players try to squeeze as much out of the newer players who won prizes. They might pay enough or they might not, the fact of the matter is, that many try to get on lists just because.

 

And that is one of the main reasons, that I do oppose this suggestion. It would not serve to relieve that stress, as any egg not going to "the lists" would increase frustration and the likelihood to quit.

This. The reasons pointed out here as well as through the thread is why I'm not for this suggestion either on prize dragons or on dragons as a whole. That's the BSA has had so much more appeal to me. Yes it could be a little extra effort to click a few more dragon BSA but in the long run as long as my goals in terms of breeding and gifting are met, I don't care what extra effort I have to put in.

[Amazon_warrior]

 

Wouldn't it help people to read it first?

 

I mean that SQUEEEEE!!!!! moment is pretty much going to scatter all braincells, and probably the lat thing they'll think of is being sensible, unless forewarned, (and maybe even then, lol,) but if people (at least those on the forums,) have read it first, that might really help them, because the advice would *already be there* at a time when they might not absorb much other new information - and before they do anything they might regret later.

Kind of moot now, someone decided to bump it already.

[Ha-Ki]

Kind of moot now, someone decided to bump it already.

...and deleted that post again after you answered - deleting your own last post should throw it back a few pages now.

[_Sin_]

...and deleted that post again after you answered - deleting your own last post should throw it back a few pages now.

Yep. And PMed you, Amazon_warrior, informing of the deletion, wanted to leave to you the decision if to keep it up or not.

Edited for typos. As usual.

Edited January 8, 2015 by _Sin_

[Amazon_warrior]

Eh. It's done now. At least people will stop saying it should be bumped. (I just hope the raffle announcement is sooner rather than later.)

[_Sin_]

Could someone please explain to me what would be the issue (s) if there was Multi Clutch for all dragons? The AP doesn't block the cave anymore. Once the eggs in the AP are low on time, they are picked up. I must be missing something and would like to understand.

[AnanoKimi]

There isnt opposition over multi clutching, it just that some would not like to breed their eggs as multi clutch and have them fall in to random hands especially if they are breeding for projects and specific people. In terms of prizes, there would be the picky few who would want their eggs to go to those who they know will continue naming scheme, lineage, or not use them as 'trade fodder' as many like to say.

 

That is why the Moonstone Multiply BSA was suggested. This would allow those that did not mind with whom or where their eggs ended up to multi clutch all they want, while the few wanting to ensure their eggs ended up in the right hands were still able to without being forced to drop in the AP.

[Fiona]

Could someone please explain to me what would be the issue (s) if there was Multi Clutch for all dragons? The AP doesn't block the cave anymore. Once the eggs in the AP are low on time, they are picked up. I must be missing something and would like to understand.

My concern over multiclutching for anything is that there is a backlog of eggs now that is stable and comfortable. If multiclutching is put in effect then there's a chance that the breeding success rate would be lowered to compensate, which would result in more "no interest" and "no egg" results than we already get. There would be the same number of eggs, but from fewer pairs' breeding.

 

I already get enough "nope, nothing for you" that I don't want that to increase. I'd much rather get one egg at a time and have more successful pairs.

[_Sin_]

How did people dealt with multi clutching previously? And if multi clutching was for everything, wouldn't the ratios be exactly the same?