ANSWERED:Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

[Renorei]

who in turn, would ask for high prizes to milk his find to the max.

 

We have no idea what this person would do with their find. They might try to trade it, they might keep it and trade the eggs, they might keep it and gift the eggs, they might scream with joy because they finally have the dragon they've been looking for for their lineage. Whatever the person does with it is their own affair. The point is to make low-gens accessible for people who have nothing of value to trade for them. Someone with no rare dragons at all who would never have been able to get one might be the one to catch the egg. It could also go to someone who already has a lot--we don't know what will happen to it, but at least it gives people the chance to get one "for free" without having to suck up to a Prize owner.

 

sorry, but all this is just greed, not on the part of the owners, but on the side of the non.owners, who'd very much like to have their own money printing machines as well...

 

Or, maybe they want it for completion purposes? Maybe they want it to have a low-gen to use in a lineage? Even if they do want it so they can trade the eggs for things they want but can't get on their own, I don't really see what's so wrong with that.

 

The same goal can be achieved WITHOUT the downsides by instituting a graduated breeding bias in favor of the low gen Prizes.

 

In short: The CB Prizes have a better shot at producing Prizes than does a 5th or higher gen prize.

 

That would spread out the wealth but without any of the control issues. AND it would also decrease the value of 2nd gen prizes, which is worthwhile in its own right. Also, it has its own thread.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

That's cool, but I prefer this idea. I prefer this because it would result in at least some "high-dollar" low-gen eggs that people can get "for free." I very much like the idea of there being some eggs whose fate cannot be controlled. Some of those eggs will end up with users who never could have traded for them.

 

Your Holidays don't multiclutch with every single breeding though, do they? They only do so once a year and for the other 51 potential breedings you can control any egg you get.

 

It's not really the same thing, because those are common eggs and there aren't thousands of users who desperately want them but can't "afford" them.

[Iside]

I'd love if multiclich was actually possible for all dragons, even with an infinitesimal chance like < 1%

It would make the game more imprevedible and give some pretty surprises.

 

That said, I really like the idea of multiclutch to be possible for lower gen prizes.

As I'm generally in favour of almost any idea that would give all players - and not only "richer" ones - a chance to get a 2nd - 3rd gen prize.

 

If prizes were able to multicluch and the breeders were only able to keep one the potential other eggs would go to the AP and everyone would have a chance of getting them. And think of the joy that catching a 2nd gen prize could bring.

[codyne]

If multi-clutching were to be re-introduced, I would prefer to see it as a BSA that would be available for all dragons.

 

I am strongly against staggered multi-clutching, or any breeding increase that favors low gens over higher gens. That would just make it harder for those of us who *don't care* about generations, but just want to get a few Prize dragons on our scroll without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. If the number of low-gens increases, ratios demand that the number of high gens will have to go down to compensate. I like my higher-gen Prizes, and I don't want them to become harder to get and harder to breed.

[Princess_Pinkie]

seriously just make multiclutching a BSA, it would work for everyone. i don't think multiclutching should be mandatory at all. its their prize dragon, let them choose what happens with the eggs.

 

i support multiclutching, but only as either an option or a BSA.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

What about if multiclutching was introduced as a rare possibility for all dragons?

 

 

[Tawanda001]

That would just make it harder for those of us who *don't care* about generations, but just want to get a few Prize dragons on our scroll without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. If the number of low-gens increases, ratios demand that the number of high gens will have to go down to compensate. I like my higher-gen Prizes, and I don't want them to become harder to get and harder to breed.

Well since TJ said prizes have been bred like commons, and because just about any prize above a 5th gen can currently be had for free just for the asking, I don't think that would really become an issue. I don't think multi-clutches of lower gens would produce enough shiny babies to skew the ratios that much.

[xenolion]

Personally I can see both sides. As a dragon collector I want to get the 2nd gen prizes since the chances of me winning a raffle are essentially nonexistent.

 

However I can see the prize winner's side too. Winning a prize is special and rare, so they should have control over the offspring. Just like anyone else with a rare egg. The forces multiclutches will take away from that rarity not only from the prize owner, but from the owners of the low gens.

 

I don't have any 2nd Gen prizes. I just caught my first CB gold last week. There is a reason why they are valued heavily and that is because they are rare.

 

That being said I would not mind having the BSA option. The key word being option. It would be interesting though how many prize winner would opt for it.

 

One more thing comparing the holiday multiclutches is not right. Holidays are available only for the week while prize dragons are available all year long.

[Iside]

I don't like the BSA multicluching idea

 

1) If it could be used with any dragon, I don't think it would be of great help with prizes since it should have a pretty low chance of working (otherwise there would be too many eggs produced overall)

 

2) It may even increase the prize drama, since some winners would use it but other would not, to keep the prize of their dragons higher of simply because they don't want their babies to go who knows where.

 

I think it would be better to be system and not user depending.

[Obscure_Trash]

I said I wouldn't mind two big raffles, but this is another I wouldn't really mind. Except for the concerns about the fact that breeding already sucks, so this won't really help anything in that aspect unless people are hoping for more low gen prize fails in the AP.

[WraithZephyr]

I don't like the BSA multicluching idea

 

1) If it could be used with any dragon, I don't think it would be of great help with prizes since it should have a pretty low chance of working (otherwise there would be too many eggs produced overall)

 

2) It may even increase the prize drama, since some winners would use it but other would not, to keep the prize of their dragons higher of simply because they don't want their babies to go who knows where.

 

I think it would be better to be system and not user depending.

multi-clutching used to be a part of the game years ago. You had just as much a chance of your dragons producing no eggs at all or as many as 4 golds and 0 purples (for example) or 0 golds and 4 purples or any combination in between. It was random.

 

The purpose of multi-clutches back then was there were not enough people playing to keep up with the demand of people wanting eggs. Back then you did NOT have a choice if your dragons multi-clutched or not.

 

If multi-clutch came back it would be to everyone's benefit that it come back as a BSA.. allowing people the choice to use it or not.

[cyradis4]

If multi-clutching were to be re-introduced, I would prefer to see it as a BSA that would be available for all dragons.

 

I am strongly against staggered multi-clutching, or any breeding increase that favors low gens over higher gens. That would just make it harder for those of us who *don't care* about generations, but just want to get a few Prize dragons on our scroll without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. If the number of low-gens increases, ratios demand that the number of high gens will have to go down to compensate. I like my higher-gen Prizes, and I don't want them to become harder to get and harder to breed.

Seriously? PM me, and I'll see to it you get high gen versions of each prize sprite. In triplicate, given a bit of time.

 

Someone in the IRC is trading 10th gen Prizes for a hatchie. ANY hatchie. That's about all you can get for a high gen prize these days, a single blocker hatchie. I stopped breeding my high gens (anything over 3rd gen, with the exception of one very rare 4th gen, and of course my even gens), and haven't bothered for months. They aren't worth squat, don't trade, take up scroll space, and breeding more fodder for the AP just screws the ratios in favor of said high gens.

 

Yes, some people still ask for a lot more. But how many of those trades actually happen? Very few, I'll wager.

 

Also, the number of high gens expands exponentially faster than that of the low gens. By the nature of breeding, the high gens will always dominate the low gens. So people like you are already very heavily favored.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Renorei]

If multi-clutch came back it would be to everyone's benefit that it come back as a BSA.. allowing people the choice to use it or not.

Making it optional still means that the vast majority of prize owners and 2nd gen owners probably wouldn't take that option, so the problem with low-gens would remain--they're still only attainable by a few people who can offer a lot in trade or who are friends with someone who will gift them one. If it were optional it wouldn't fulfill the stated purpose of spreading more low-gens around to the have-nots.

 

I don't think multi-clutching needs to happen for any dragons except prize dragons (and holidays during their holiday), but if it does, the mechanic should be the same as is suggested in the OP--CBs can have up to 4, 2nd gens can have up to 3, etc. I doubt anyone would mind if a few 2nd or 3rd gen copper, gold, or silver eggs end up on the AP. It would mean more "blocker" breeds end up on the AP too, but since the AP no longer blocks the cave, they aren't really bothering anything.

[shovedtbh]

What about if multiclutching was introduced as a rare possibility for all dragons?

I think this would be amazing Totally and completely random makes it fair to all users.

[codyne]

Seriously? PM me, and I'll see to it you get high gen versions of each prize sprite. In triplicate, given a bit of time.

 

Someone in the IRC is trading 10th gen Prizes for a hatchie. ANY hatchie. That's about all you can get for a high gen prize these days, a single blocker hatchie. I stopped breeding my high gens (anything over 3rd gen, with the exception of one very rare 4th gen, and of course my even gens), and haven't bothered for months. They aren't worth squat, don't trade, take up scroll space, and breeding more fodder for the AP just screws the ratios in favor of said high gens.

 

Yes, some people still ask for a lot more. But how many of those trades actually happen? Very few, I'll wager.

 

Also, the number of high gens expands exponentially faster than that of the low gens. By the nature of breeding, the high gens will always dominate the low gens. So people like you are already very heavily favored.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Thank you, I have all the high-gen prizes I want. Some I traded for, some were gifts, some I caught from the AP. I have nothing under 4th gen, and that's perfectly fine with me. They weren't all easy to get -- especially in the first six months after each breed was given out -- but I got them eventually.

 

So, users who think anything over 5th gen is worthless and never breed their higher gen prizes, but breed their lower gens faithfully every week, are already skewing the population in favor of lower gens. Which is fine. That's as it should be. The users themselves decide which dragons will be heavily bred and which won't. But I don't think there should be any in-game favoritism of CBs vs lineaged dragons, or low-gens vs high-gens, or clean lineages vs messy lineages or anything else. I believe all dragons of a breed should be treated equally by the game mechanics.

[Princess_Pinkie]

i don't think multiclutching now would be anything like it was..

 

for one thing, back when multiclutching was in the game and i was actively playing, we didn't have lineages. eggs were solely valued as what dragon they were (simpler times, eh?) so of course, multiclutching was in favor of everyone.

i remember once i bred one of my silvers to a mint and got three silver eggs and one mint egg, that was a crazy experience!

but it was also a lot different than it would be now, because silvers were just silvers. not checkered, EG, stair, what have you silvers. that silver that bred me a clutch of 3:1 is SUPER messy, but there was no way to tell back then!

 

i know the argument of "thats how it used to be" is easy to say, but the cave was a LOT different then, too. less dragons, less people, less (WAY less) trading.

 

you have to think about how much the cave has changed. people still and always will breed messies to the AP. do you want those to be multiclutching? some people don't, others will be very upset to see messy upon messy despite other dragons also getting multiclutched.

 

i honestly don't think it would work out to everyone's expectations.

 

EDIT;

i'm not 100% against multiclutching, i just don't think it should be mandatory at all. that wouldn't solve anything, it would mess up ratios and make people either more greedy or just plain upset by the change.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Princess_Pinkie

[Tawanda001]

Sorry, confused, how would multi-clutching make people more greedy?

(If multicluthching were just for the low gen prizes as suggested I don't think it would produce enough shinies to upset ratios unless TJ also drastically changed the success rate)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

you have to think about how much the cave has changed. people still and always will breed messies to the AP. do you want those to be multiclutching? some people don't, others will be very upset to see messy upon messy despite other dragons also getting multiclutched.

Since it would affect all dragons equally it would balance out, IMO. Every extra ugly is matched by an extra pretty. ^^

 

Although, that is the one and only reason I'd accept a BSA for it instead (provided, again, there's an option to use it more quickly than one dragon at a time because whoa that takes forever). Then hopefully those who do breed really pretty stuff would use it lots while those who just herpderp and dump randoms would use it less.

[Princess_Pinkie]

Sorry, confused, how would multi-clutching make people more greedy?

(If multicluthching were just for the low gen prizes as suggested I don't think it would produce enough shinies to upset ratios unless TJ also drastically changed the success rate)

i personally think it would upset the 'trade market' too much. it would cause the market to become inflated. putting more money into an economy never fixes it, it only makes the prices of everything go up to accommodate the amount of trade value. the only way i could see mandatory multiclutch working is if it worked in tiers like i saw. even then, it's not fair to make someone's special dragon breed out multiple eggs just because the user base wants more. i've seen a couple of prize owners detesting the idea completely and i don't blame them. they won something special and it gives them access to basically the whole trade market. that's part of what makes the prize special now, because trade market is a huge thing in the game. and that's THEIR prize. THEIR breeding. it's not right to force that upon someone in a game. they won fairly, they should have the right to breed their dragon how they want.

 

@angelicdragonpuppy

in theory it would, but when put into the actual game it wouldn't. all it would do is make more of both unwanted and wanted dragons, and again, i would cause the market to become even more inflated than it is right now.

 

a BSA is the second most probable approach, just because then it's voluntary. but after awhile it would produce the same results as mandatory inflation.

[Tawanda001]

So winning a prize dragon is not enough in and of itself?

Prize winners are also entitled to be given access to basically the whole trade market through breeding, as a part of winning. And that is more fair than an occasional prize egg going to the AP? I guess I just don't understand how that is fair to anyone other than the prize winners.

[Princess_Pinkie]

So winning a prize dragon is not enough in and of itself?

Prize winners are also entitled to be given access to basically the whole trade market through breeding, as a part of winning. And that is more fair than an occasional prize egg going to the AP? I guess I just don't understand how that is fair to anyone other than the prize winners.

no, the rights to their bred eggs are PART of the prize dragon. it's not like they're getting a one of a kind sprite. dozens and dozens of shimmers are sitting on my scroll right now. they get a code (not even all of them pick a code) and a CB prize dragon. what would be the point of getting a CB if you can't have access to their eggs the way they want? you may as well give them a 5G shimmer with a neat code.

[HeatherMarie]

I completely support multi-clutches for prize dragons (although I'd rather see the multi-clutch come back for *all* breeds, at least prize dragons can really benefit from this).

 

I don't see any reason why it needs to be voluntary, *as long as* it is announced *in cave* when the change takes affect. It's not fair for users to breed and suddenly have multiple eggs going off to the AP when they had no idea that was even possible. But as long as it's *announced*, then yes it actually is perfectly fair. It's not restrictive or punishing or anything like that; Users don't *have* to breed, after all. No one would be "forced" to see eggs go off to the AP. You breed, or you don't.

 

However, I am *very* against this whole idea of "only for low gen prizes". That's crap. A Tinsel is a tinsel is a tinsel, the CAVE doesn't know a 2nd gen from a 15th gen. Same with Shimmers. There is *no* in-cave bias for or against any type of gen, please leave it that way.

[Irys]

"An extra ugly is balanced by an extra pretty" essentially results in an identical situation that we have now, just with more overall eggs. If you have 1 pretty and 5 ugly and you make it so there are 3 pretties and 15 uglies... nothing is fixed.

 

This is because the suggestion doesn't create a pretty for every single ugly lineage. 30 multiclutching CBs will never be able to catch up to 300 multiclutching 8th generations.

 

If multi-clutching were introduced as a solution to the dearth of low gen rares, then it would have to somehow be limited. Having it affect all dragons equally is not going to solve the problem.

 

I'm not against multiclutching. I always liked it (especially because it increased my odds of producing the egg I wanted). I wouldn't mind if all dragons multiclutched all the time! BUT I don't see indiscriminate clutching as a viable solution to the problem that has been presented.

 

A BSA could be viable, assuming that people used it on low gens more often than high gens. (And you never know. People still breed crazy messy lineages that they abandon. They may multiclutch those. You never know, and that's their prerogative).

 

Finding a way to flag only certain generations as able to multiclutch could be viable. I think that's similar to what cyradis was supporting (if I recall correctly) in a different thread that I've lost track of.

 

So yeah. It could work.

[Princess_Pinkie]

"An extra ugly is balanced by an extra pretty" essentially results in an identical situation that we have now, just with more overall eggs. If you have 1 pretty and 5 ugly and you make it so there are 3 pretties and 15 uglies... nothing is fixed.

 

This is because the suggestion doesn't create a pretty for every single ugly lineage. 30 multiclutching CBs will never be able to catch up to 300 multiclutching 8th generations.

 

If multi-clutching were introduced as a solution to the dearth of low gen rares, then it would have to somehow be limited. Having it affect all dragons equally is not going to solve the problem.

 

I'm not against multiclutching. I always liked it (especially because it increased my odds of producing the egg I wanted). I wouldn't mind if all dragons multiclutched all the time! BUT I don't see indiscriminate clutching as a viable solution to the problem that has been presented.

 

A BSA could be viable, assuming that people used it on low gens more often than high gens. (And you never know. People still breed crazy messy lineages that they abandon. They may multiclutch those. You never know, and that's their prerogative).

 

Finding a way to flag only certain generations as able to multiclutch could be viable. I think that's similar to what cyradis was supporting (if I recall correctly) in a different thread that I've lost track of.

 

So yeah. It could work.

this is basically what i was describing, it's inflation ^^;

 

it'll never work for every dragon unless rare and common ratios get balanced, and that would just mess the trade market to hell and back. it's not worth it.

[Renorei]

no, the rights to their bred eggs are PART of the prize dragon. it's not like they're getting a one of a kind sprite. dozens and dozens of shimmers are sitting on my scroll right now. they get a code (not even all of them pick a code) and a CB prize dragon. what would be the point of getting a CB if you can't have access to their eggs the way they want? you may as well give them a 5G shimmer with a neat code.

 

They still will have the rights over one egg from every clutch, and for that egg, they'll still be able to charge an arm and a leg. All this idea would do is ensure that people who could never afford a 2nd or 3rd gen still have a small chance at getting one. The CB dragons will still be extremely special and virtually one-of-a-kind and unique because there will only ever be a very small limited number of CBs. I think just getting the CB prize and being able to breed it and control the destiny of some of its eggs is plenty prize enough. I don't think being able to completely dominate the trade market for all time needs to be part of their prize.

 

However, I am *very* against this whole idea of "only for low gen prizes". That's crap. A Tinsel is a tinsel is a tinsel, the CAVE doesn't know a 2nd gen from a 15th gen. Same with Shimmers. There is *no* in-cave bias for or against any type of gen, please leave it that way.

 

We don't need any more 6th gens or 10th gens or 15th gens, though. What is needed is more 2nd and 3rd gens. It's true that from the cave's perspective, there is no difference between a 15th gen and a 2nd gen. But from the perspective of most users, there is a massive difference. A 2nd gen is worth 5+ CB metals, a 5th gen isn't worth any (according to what is fetched in the trade markets). It's time the cave got with the times.

 

There will be too many messy dragons multi-clutching if this gets put into place!

 

This has no relevance whatsoever to the suggestion at hand. It's not really fair to the thread to debate the ramifications of an idea that isn't even being suggested. The suggestion for this thread is that CB prizes could multi-clutch 4 eggs, 2nd gens could multi-clutch 3 eggs, and so on. The suggestion that this thread is about therefore couldn't result in additional messy dragons that no one wants, unless the prizes in question are bred to terrible mates. If this were a thread for bringing back multi-clutching in general, this objection would make sense, but that's not what this thread is about at all, so I don't know why this is getting brought up.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Eh, I brought up the idea of multiclutching for everything as an alternative, so it's probably my bad.

 

Now that I've thought a little more, I don't think it would lead to inflation. Every (again, rare) multiclutch produced would likely be one more no interest. So there would be a bit more variety in the breeding results, but not the overall amount of eggs.

 

I guess some people might like that scenario less than the current one, but I always thought getting a multiclutch was fun and exciting back when they happened regularly.