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Sheriziya

ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

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I still do like the fact that TJ's been introducing new and different things, even if I may not always like those things or some of the effects.

 

And I still like the concept of the Raffle, the fact that there's a random distribution of eggs among the community in a manner which does not depend on recipients having great computer speed or having particular dragons in order to receive a special dragon exclusive in its CB form to those selected.

 

The problem lay only in the very low percentages distributed and the low breeding rates among those CBs (and lower gens).

 

This resulted in the very few owners being pressured by slow production levels and a relatively huge - absolutely impossible - number of people wanting to get on lists.

 

This was entirely predictable.

 

We are typically here because we are a fanatic group of dragon collectors and we are going to want new eggs *now*.

 

This is why a lot of us are at DC, where this is usually achievable for most, and not at some competitive site with lots of exclusives, which many of us would avoid like the plague.

 

DC forms our niche, and vice versa.

 

Life may indeed be hard and cruel, so many of us come here to have fun and get away from whatever hardship and misery we endure, rather than pursuing more of it in our leisure time.

 

Wanting to be able to collect dragons is the reason we're here, and if we weren't greedy dragon collectors, we'd be somewhere else.

 

Calling each other names gets us nowhere - increasing the numbers of CBs and the production rate of the lower gens would help, (although it seems some owners object to this,) and even if of all Prizes would help a little.

 

Ending the raffle and introducing these into the Cave would, I think, rather suck.

 

 

If various factors result in something experimental heading into an unfortunate direction, rather than abandon the still-potentially-beneficial experiment, why not simply alter the appropriate and controllable factors - such as increasing numbers issued and produced - to improve outcomes?

 

 

We have only, at this point, the two methods of random distribution of potentially valuable eggs into the community - the AP/multiclutching and the Raffle.

 

Only the Raffle gives an equal, if virtually non-existent chance, to everyone, regardless of wage or condition, so to speak.

 

You don't need to be able to afford a decent computer or high-speed internet, it doesn't matter if you don't have the fastest reflexes or do have disabilities - you still have a faint but fair chance, just the same as anyone else, once a year, to win a Prize dragon.

 

As an Ultra-rare in the Cave? Not a breath of a chance.

 

 

One problem is that this great equalizer is grossly 'over-powered', at this point apparently on a permanent basis.

 

I've even heard talk recently from a few members about 'celebrity status' for members who've been lucky enough to have won Prizes???

 

This type of tabloid stuff hasn't surfaced before even for our fabulous spriters, thank goodness - we may treasure them, but drool only over their sprites.  laugh.gif

 

Get a large enough prospective (despite often sucky breeding rates,) accumulation of 'currency', though, and some people seem wired to venerate whoever holds them.

 

Dunno, TJ, is this anything you planned for?

 

Because it hasn't done a whole lot to improve the site experience for many players, and it's frankly weirding it out.

 

I do personally like the concept of Prizes, with the CBs exclusive to winners, but if increased distributions of CBs AND production, with multiclutching basic to this on the graduated basis suggested elsewhere, had all been initially instituted, the current issues would by now have been reduced accordingly.

 

At this point, people have settled ideas as to what they're entitled to and objections have been made by some in every area.

 

Nonetheless, I'd personally hate to see the Raffle abandoned and Prizes becoming Ultra-Rares in the Cave, and would much prefer to see improvements in the situation.

 

They are Prizes, after all...

Yes I like the raffle's concept, too. However I don't like the "immortal rich status" that brings to the winners. I like the random thing, too. It's nice because is unexpected. I would support an increase of winners, but TJ didn't seem to agree with it, so i wouldn't take it as an available option. I would add something like 70 gold tinsel, 70 gold shimmer, 150 silver shimmer 150 silver tinsel, 250 bronze tinsel and 250 bronze shimmer every year because:

1) A great number of CB will increase the number of 2nd gens, no matter what. The number of those who don't breed/trade their 2nd gen eggs will be irrelevant.

2) Even with these huge numbers they would still be rares and not easy to obtain.

3) Having them available only as prizes doesn't mean that there should be few CBs around. If you want to use the Raffle's method to distribute a specific dragon in cave this should not be different in terms of quantity of relasing it.

 

The reason is that none user should do what must be done by the Cave itself. Dragons are made available thanks to the site of Dragon Cave that can spread the right amount of dragons to the user-base into the biomes.

Winners are not the cave, they shouldn't be entitled to handle two entire breeds and their ratio in game.

There is a motto in italian: "non puoi avere sia la botte piena che la moglie ubriaca" which means: "You can't have both your wife drunk and your barrel of wine as full."

If you're a winner you can't claim to have all privileges and be mad if many people desire a 2nd gen at the same time. Yes, it's totally WRONG harass someone for his dragons, but that's an inevitable consequence of the privileges they've choose to keep for themselves.

Winners are our actual Cave of 2nd gen Prizes, the only way to collect them is by asking for trades or hoping to have it as a gift. If CBs and 2nd gens aren't more important than an 8th gen messy and inbreed lineage I wonder why lineages exists a this point.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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First of all, winners of prizes only chose to accept the prize, nothing more. They don't owe anyone anything. It's completely their choice to breed their dragon at all, and what to do with eggs if they do. Thinking they owe us anything is called entitlement, and it's completely and totally wrong thinking. They're not working for us, they've made no contract with us.

 

Second, there is never an excuse for anyone to harass someone. Nothing in the world makes that ok. Yes, they have something people want. But it's entirely up to them to decide what to do with that something. Pressuring them to breed, to make a list, to trade you an egg? Those are reportable offenses, and rightly so.

 

I'm not saying the raffle is perfect, that there isn't room for improvement. I'm not saying that every issue raised in this forum is from selfish whining because they didn't win. I am saying that we should be looking first at our own motives.

 

ETA: I did misunderstand what was being said. I do still firmly believe that there is no excuse for harassing another person, in any context.

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

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I am saying that we should be looking first at our own motives.

Good point. For me, it's not jealousy, though a bit of envy is undoubtedly involved. I definitely do not feel entitled to anything.

 

However, I do feel like that the Prize dragons get way too much attention, especially in the trading section, but also around this time of year. So, everything that draws away attention from the prizes is a good thing in my opinion. That includes ways to spread prizes around, thereby lessening their exclusivity.

 

Releasing regular prizes (not "coal" or other "alt" prizes) to the cave would spread them around, thus increasing availability, which is why I would be in support of that, if tentatively. Because I know darn well that it's always the same people who will be able to catch them, thereby being worse than the raffle in some aspects. (How would you feel if the same person managed to snag all the CB prizes from the cave? unsure.gif I guess that's where actual jealousy would come into play, at least for me. In any case, such a scenario has the potential for worse drama yet to come.)

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Good point. For me, it's not jealousy, though a bit of envy is undoubtedly involved. I definitely do not feel entitled to anything.

 

However, I do feel like that the Prize dragons get way too much attention, especially in the trading section, but also around this time of year. So, everything that draws away attention from the prizes is a good thing in my opinion. That includes ways to spread prizes around, thereby lessening their exclusivity.

I do agree with this sentiment a lot. I feel like there's a gap in January where people who usually collect dragon sprites get left out or bored, and so everything is hyperfocused on prizes. It'd be nice if we had a normal release at that time too.

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I totally disagree with this statement. First of all, winners of prizes only chose to accept the prize, nothing more. They don't owe anyone anything. It's completely their choice to breed their dragon at all, and what to do with eggs if they do. Thinking they owe us anything is called entitlement, and it's completely and totally wrong thinking. They're not working for us, they've made no contract with us.

 

Second, there is never an excuse for anyone to harass someone. Nothing in the world makes that ok. Yes, they have something people want. But it's entirely up to them to decide what to do with that something. Pressuring them to breed, to make a list, to trade you an egg? Those are reportable offenses, and rightly so.

 

Perhaps those who are complaining so bitterly about the raffle should examine their own motives and see if those complaints are not based mainly in envy and jealousy, and in an attitude of "they owe me".

 

I'm not saying the raffle is perfect, that there isn't room for improvement. I'm not saying that every issue raised in this forum is from selfish whining because they didn't win. I am saying that we should be looking first at our own motives.

sad.gif You've clearly misunderstood what I'm saying.

I've never said that harass someone is ok, and my quote in your post it totally out of contest. I already knew and agree with everything you said, but it simple doesn't concern what I was talking about.

 

They owe us nothing and I totally agree with it, they could even kill the CB if they like it, I would have none objection to it. It's exactly because I think that those who won a Prize owe us nothing that I think Prizes should be relased in cave, so the winners won't have anything to do with their distribution in cave and they will be able to enjoy their own prizes without feel any kind of pressure. I've read more than one profile of a Prize winner with senteces like: "I'm very sorry I can't gift a 2nd gen to everybody". That's pressure even if nobody is asking him/her to breed something. They are materially the ones who can distribute 2nd gens, they have taken the place of the site itself.

I'm not saying that they must do it, I'm saying what it is the reality right now. They could want it or not, but actually new lines depends only on them.

 

However since the game gave us a new breed that has an actual power and relevance with the gameplay I wish that the game could make us able to earn it in our own way, without asking, hoping or harass someone. Like I said before I wish that users interaction could be OPTIONAL, and if someone like to play alone, without depending on other, trades and PM so be it! That's totally different from what you've said because it will erase the need to contact Prize winners instead of harass them. This would make them almost normal users and it won't be so important to have their 2nd gens (unless you want to collect the "original lines"). It should be see as a good thing if elites could be erased a bit more than they are right now.

Like Syphoneira said:

Wanting to be able to collect dragons is the reason we're here, and if we weren't greedy dragon collectors, we'd be somewhere else.

 

You seem to ask me why I'm hoping for relasing prizes in cave (correct me if I'm wrong). So here are my reasons:

 

1) Everyone will have a chance to catch a CB in cave with his own efforts and having it will be a simple reward for your dedication to DC as for every other egg you can collect.

2) You won't depend on others for the reason stated above. If you don't like trading and the official forum you're free to not join it in order to find something you wouldn't be able to find otherwise.

3) You will be able to create your own lineages without depending on others. The dragons you breed are yours, so you can decide the mates without be submissive to the right but limiting preferences of someone else.

4) Even if you won't be able to find a CB in cave their number will constantly increase. There will be more CB to breed = more 2nd gens. This means that their price will be more accessible, like a 2nd gen gold right now. Is it difficult to trade for a CB gold, but you can reasonably obtain a 2nd gen with the mate you prefer.

5) The entire trade market will be less focused on 2nd gens because of the reason stated above. We will return to seek neglected and hollies, like it's natural. I don't remember who said it, but currently this case:

I have 5 CB gold

I want 2nd gen prize ONLY

It is VERY more common than

I have a 2nd gen prize

I want 5 CB gold

So basically there is another proof that I have nothing against winners. They have the right to breed the Prize only for themselves, if they prefer. The problem is that there aren't enough CBs in the entire game to consider the races of shimmer and tinsel actually useful like the others.

6) I want to remember you that the 2015 winners have not been announced yet. I could be one of them xd.png . Which kind of advantage would I have if we relase them in cave? I could potentially have a money printer, but it wouldn't be as strong as now if you could find them as CBs in cave .

The hope to have the same privileges the winners have right now and the hope to become part of the small elite would make me envious and jealous of those who have already won. It doesn't make me jealous hoping that everybody (aka= not only me) could obtain a CB prize. I'm asking for a fair relase in cave, NOT for having a free CB rare only for myself. What should I be jealous of? Their rarity? Their preciosity? These things are the ones I want to resize if not erase.

 

You're envious of something you want only for you, not of something you want to give to everybody else. I could even don't find one of them in cave for years, but I don't care as long as there will be the FAIR chance for everybody to find it.

7) Prize winners won't be harassed anymore. They will be seen as lucky people who managed to win something precious like a CB gold, nothing more or less of this.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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I totally disagree with this statement. First of all, winners of prizes only chose to accept the prize, nothing more. They don't owe anyone anything. It's completely their choice to breed their dragon at all, and what to do with eggs if they do. Thinking they owe us anything is called entitlement, and it's completely and totally wrong thinking. They're not working for us, they've made no contract with us.

 

Second, there is never an excuse for anyone to harass someone. Nothing in the world makes that ok. Yes, they have something people want. But it's entirely up to them to decide what to do with that something. Pressuring them to breed, to make a list, to trade you an egg? Those are reportable offenses, and rightly so.

 

Perhaps those who are complaining so bitterly about the raffle should examine their own motives and see if those complaints are not based mainly in envy and jealousy, and in an attitude of "they owe me".

 

I'm not saying the raffle is perfect, that there isn't room for improvement. I'm not saying that every issue raised in this forum is from selfish whining because they didn't win. I am saying that we should be looking first at our own motives.

YES, very much so. Prizewinners haven't done anything wrong by winning. Sometimes it sounds as if some people think they have.

 

But the fact that we don't all win is NOT a valid reason to make prizes available to all. That's exactly the "entitlement" thing that is making this all so acrimonious. Prizes are special. No-one gets to share my music prize book from when I was 14. It's mine. And just because I got it and no-one else did doesn't mean everyone else should get a copy three years later.

 

And OK I earned that; I didn't earn the exclusive one-off CD I won in the only raffle I EVER won. I bought a ticket; I won - and it's mine. Your ticket didn't win - that's sad, but that's the end of it. They don't have to run off loads of copies just because I have the only one, and I don't have to run off copies for everyone else either. That's life.

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Naruhina, I'll apologize if I misunderstood what you meant, but I can only reply to what is said. Sometimes it's easy to misunderstand each other.

 

Understand this; I'm not opposed to this suggestion because I want the prizes to remain exclusive to the few winners or to enable them to control the market. I'm opposed because I don't think it will work the way people hope it to, and I think there are better solutions.

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YES, very much so. Prizewinners haven't done anything wrong by winning. Sometimes it sounds as if some people think they have.

 

But the fact that we don't all win is NOT a valid reason to make prizes available to all. That's exactly the "entitlement" thing that is making this all so acrimonious. Prizes are special. No-one gets to share my music prize book from when I was 14. It's mine. And just because I got it and no-one else did doesn't mean everyone else should get a copy three years later.

 

And OK I earned that; I didn't earn the exclusive one-off CD I won in the only raffle I EVER won. I bought a ticket; I won - and it's mine. Your ticket didn't win - that's sad, but that's the end of it. They don't have to run off loads of copies just because I have the only one, and I don't have to run off copies for everyone else either. That's life.

This statment would make sense if Prizes would be unbreedables. However they influence the gameplay of other people and are not just fancy dragons who stay in your scroll: they are actually needed in order to trade almost everything with more value than a CB black. And that's wrong, but it won't change unless they will loose some of this so precious "uniqueness". Right now your CD is preventing me to sell my other CDs, so I'm forced to ask you to make a copy for me or I wouldn't be able to trade anything.

This is better explained here:

1) User 1

2) User 2 (I agree with him)

3) User 1

4) User 2 ( I totally agree with him!)

 

Naruhina, I'll apologize if I misunderstood what you meant, but I can only reply to what is said. Sometimes it's easy to misunderstand each other.

 

Understand this; I'm not opposed to this suggestion because I want the prizes to remain exclusive to the few winners or to enable them to control the market. I'm opposed because I don't think it will work the way people hope it to, and I think there are better solutions.

 

Don't worry, it is probably my fault I didn't express well smile.gif If for better solutions you mean increasing the number of winners, yes, I would agree with that. Sadly TJ doesn't seem to be in favor of this, so we should consider even other solution, imo.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Yea, I'm still opposed to this as causing too many problems and solving very few.

 

I think doubling or tripling the prizes (and no new prize breeds!!!!!) will greatly help the situation.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Well, TJ is a reasonable person. I think it's entirely possible he could change his mind about things.

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This statment would make sense if Prizes would be unbreedables. However they influence the gameplay of other people and are not just fancy dragons who stay in your scroll: they are actually needed in order to trade almost everything with more value than a CB black. And that's wrong, but it won't change unless they will lose some of this so precious "uniqueness".

Only if you/we let them be.

 

Right now your CD is preventing me to sell my other CDs, so I'm forced to ask you to make a copy for me or I wouldn't be able to trade anything.

But you only need to wait till someone DOES trade something else. If I never make a copy - world trade will not stop. xd.png

 

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It seems to me that Naruhina_94 is simply making the rather obvious point that the Prize winners are the only available source of 2nd gens.

 

Normally, polite trade offers are not a problem for most of us, but when a very few people are the only available source of something very much desired by collectors on a collecting site, they are going to be flooded by impossible numbers of these - predominantly sent by people with no intention of harassing or stressing, merely following what has always been the previous standard procedure - and that is hardly unexpected.

 

Obviously, we have now to change the standard operating procedure in the case of Prize winners, because the situation is no longer normal.

 

 

In DC, people can normally eventually get virtually every dragon, and most of us like it that way.

 

People are not typically thinking that any Prize owner 'owes' them anything, they simply want these dragons, and the Prize owners themselves are already stressed due to slow reproduction rates, so that they may already be on edge and perhaps more likely to feel under a deliberate, rather than an incidental, siege.

 

But this is not a 'fault' situation, merely a situation.

 

We have a scarcity problem which adversely effects virtually all of us, including those who simply wish that the Cave, forums and trade would no longer revolve around Prize issues.

 

 

We need to work together on solutions in order to alleviate the situation, which becomes especially difficult if we allow negative assumptions to rule perceptions and assign adversarial status/epithets to those exhibiting no actual sign of it, but merely making different suggestions to those we would personally prefer.

 

 

 

Personally, I'd prefer to see the Prizes remain Prizes, although I can see the viewpoint of those wishing for Cave Releases, despite not thinking myself that this would be the best route or an actual overall improvement for reasons I've already posted.

 

My personal preference would be for increased CB Prize distribution through the Raffle, significantly increased Prize reproduction ratios and the graduated multi-clutching among the first 3 gens, where the potential for triple egg-producing (of either sort) magic of the magically appearing Prizes would wear off one egg/gen at a time down to the 3rd gen and whereby the odd shiny egg would drop to the AP, making CB owners not entirely the only available source of 2nd-gens, or the owners of 2nd and 3rd gens of 3rd and 4th gens and taking a little of the pressure off them.

 

I don't expect all off this to happen; this is what I personally feel would be the best way of alleviating the worst of the issues.

 

However, while differences of opinion are only to be expected, some owners and hopeful winners seem to feel that multi-clutching suggestions made *by people who have no ability to alter Cave functions* form an attempt to take their actual Prize away, something never suggested or desired.

 

Over-reaction isn't necessary, and a polite and non-heated listing of reasons devoid of gratuitous insults as to why people are for or against a suggestion produces a much better result, as it seems we are beginning to see, going by the more recent posts on threads I've most recently read.

 

 

However, as long as a very small group of people is the only available source of a very slowly produced and desired dragon, and if they fight to keep it that way, and especially if some become in some cases accusatory against those who simply, and typically, want to collect offspring many winners are generally willing to trade when it's possible for them to actually produce any, people are going to comment on the fact that some owners are, as obviously is their right to desire to do, eager to keep offspring as well as their Prizes exclusive and ultra-highly valued, while criticizing everyone else for wanting something they may have said they DO want others to want desperately enough to offer their first-born for, something rather contradictory and - importantly - which has been expressed in highly derogatory terms by some.

 

I've not seen anyone suggest that harassment of owners is OK, although I've seen accusations of this, and this whole listing/PMing situation does need to be worked out, but it needs to be generally understood that most people simply do not work off spite or jealousy when trying to work out ways of collecting desired dragons on dragon collecting sites.

 

Most Prize owners seem to want to breed their Prizes, whether to keep, gift or trade, and probably a combination of all of these with most, I should think, but certainly some would like to trade for many of the dragons which they may previously have been unable to obtain.

 

Those offering to trade with them are doing just that.

 

I should think that very few people are trying to 'force' owners to do anything - they just want to collect specific dragons for whatever purpose, but as long as there're only a very few sources for something so many collectors want, there is going to be a scramble and a lot of people looking for these.

 

This is not anything personal 'against' owners, even though especially new CB Owners may be personally affected and unfortunately even have to cope with some degree of rudeness from some relative few, with which our lovely and charming Mods most fortunately can deal in the most professional manner at the push of a button.

 

There are stressors on both sides, with which good manners and understanding on both sides can help us all better deal.

 

 

Too often we seem to be arguing at cross-purposes, with misunderstanding rampant...

 

A number of people seem to keep going back to 'everyone can't have CB Prizes' as though this is central to the debate - most people are simply hoping for 2nd/lower gens - which is why owners are being so inundated with Prize requests.

 

Without a higher rate of CB Prizes for whoever gets lucky, (almost certainly won't be us, and most of us know the odds,) and increased breeding ratios among these, though, the situation, *through no player's fault*, will continue and we'll have to work out ways, using assets like Amazon's Guide and recommendations from Those Who Know not to run lists, and with Prize owners advertising that lists are not being made both when publicly sqeeee-ing and elsewhere, to help prevent/alleviate at least some problems on the owner's side - but we do need some improvement for the whole Cave as well, or we're DOOMED, I TELL YOU, DOOMED! xd.png

 

We're in for a long haul and we'd better keep a sense of humour, as far as we can, because laughing doesn't use the Kleenex crying does, and is therefore both cheaper and more 'green', not to mention healthier.

 

(Not that 'drama' will kill us, although continuing acrimony might.)

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(Not that 'drama' will kill us, although continuing acrimony might.)

Since I started lurking in the forum, several years ago, I've wondered if a Rant/Vent/Drama area could be useful. A place where people could go to vent against situations (not against individuals) instead of spreading their discontent all over the fora.

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Since I started lurking in the forum, several years ago, I've wondered if a Rant/Vent/Drama area could be useful. A place where people could go to vent against situations (not against individuals) instead of spreading their discontent all over the fora.

 

 

 

One was started years back, and closed, still smouldering after repeatedly breaking out into flames.

 

Some problems include such as that for some, venting seems to get them more worked up, rather than less, often with others piling on (and too-often directly or indirectly attacking others or feeling attacked, whether mentioned or not,) and sometimes others are upset, (sometimes justifiably,) by sometimes rude or accusatory language directed at people or groups, and some apparently enraged even just by expressed unhappiness by some, because too often people do tend to blame people, or groups of people, rather than situations, or believe that people should not voice issues which bother them even where no person or group is being accused or involved.

 

It would be a great idea, otherwise. smile.gif

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Some problems include such as that for some, venting seems to get them more worked up, rather than less, often with others piling on (and too-often directly or indirectly attacking others or feeling attacked, whether mentioned or not,) and sometimes others are upset, (sometimes justifiably,) by sometimes rude or accusatory language directed at people or groups, and some apparently enraged even just by expressed unhappiness by some, because too often people do tend to blame people, or groups of people, rather than situations, or believe that people should not voice issues which bother them even where no person or group is being accused or involved.

All that sounds familiar, just not confined :-)

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Yes I like the raffle's concept, too. However I don't like the "immortal rich status" that brings to the winners. I like the random thing, too. It's nice because is unexpected. I would support an increase of winners, but TJ didn't seem to agree with it, so i wouldn't take it as an available option. I would add something like 70 gold tinsel, 70 gold shimmer, 150 silver shimmer 150 silver tinsel, 250 bronze tinsel and 250 bronze shimmer every year because:

1) A great number of CB will increase the number of 2nd gens, no matter what. The number of those who don't breed/trade their 2nd gen eggs will be irrelevant.

2) Even with these huge numbers they would still be rares and not easy to obtain.

3) Having them available only as prizes doesn't mean that there should be few CBs around. If you want to use the Raffle's method to distribute a specific dragon in cave this should not be different in terms of quantity of relasing it.

 

The reason is that none user should do what must be done by the Cave itself. Dragons are made available thanks to the site of Dragon Cave that can spread the right amount of dragons to the user-base into the biomes.

Winners are not the cave, they shouldn't be entitled to handle two entire breeds and their ratio in game.

There is a motto in italian: "non puoi avere sia la botte piena che la moglie ubriaca" which means: "You can't have both your wife drunk and your barrel of wine as full."

If you're a winner you can't claim to have all privileges and be mad if many people desire a 2nd gen at the same time. Yes, it's totally WRONG harass someone for his dragons, but that's an inevitable consequence of the privileges they've choose to keep for themselves.

Winners are our actual Cave of 2nd gen Prizes, the only way to collect them is by asking for trades or hoping to have it as a gift. If CBs and 2nd gens aren't more important than an 8th gen messy and inbreed lineage I wonder why lineages exists a this point.

I would point out one thing that someone mentioned in another thread.

 

TJ didn't say he wasnt raising the number of prize winners.

What he said is that he had a number that he figured was acceptable... this could mean he has already done something about it.

 

After all, no announcements have gone up yet as to how many winners there are.

 

To adress your post, the thought occures to me that it isn't ALL of the prize owners that are like that. There are those that would be willing to reduce their own 'priviledge' via some form of compromise... such as an increase int eh number of prizes given out, multiclutching or ect... the trouble is that like in any group, there are good and bad. There are those among the owners who want to maintain that "immortal rich status" you refer to. The thing is that they don't all.

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It seems to me that Naruhina_94 is simply making the rather obvious point that the Prize winners are the only available source of 2nd gens. d and 4th gens and taking a little of the pressure off them.

 

<snip>

 

(Not that 'drama' will kill us, although continuing acrimony might.)

And I am making the also obvious point that if we don't choose to trade huge amounts for them, things can stay nice and quiet and polite and we CAN enjoy ourselves. I have only once ever PMd a prize owner asking for a 2nd gen. They said no - at least not for a long while. End of.

 

The one I have was gifted out of the blue. If we all stop asking winners, asking for changes that fairly clearly aren't on the cards, challenging TJs rations (we have NO idea what proportion of participants win; we have NO idea how many there are) and stop "expecting" TJ to change something just because we want 2nd gens - that kind of thing might well happen more.

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Yes I like the raffle's concept, too. However I don't like the "immortal rich status" that brings to the winners.

Can I also point out that "immortal rich status" is a bunch of baloney? Like yeah I got gold or two, some offered ND's, a few are an IOU for an IOU but at ost like 1 gold or silver for one of my second gens. Some are gifts I owe and even the one 2nd gen I did offer up to trade the most was like 1-2 CB metals and like a couple other uncommon/semi rare dragons/eggs like red dorsal, tan ridge wing, etc.

 

So Anyone out there offering like 3 Golds and 4 Silvers for a 2nd gen is trying waaaaaaaay to hard to get the attention of a prize winner and probably isnt close to the reality of offers one could get for a second gen.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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Can I also point out that "immortal rich status" is a bunch of baloney? Like yeah I got  gold or two, some offered ND's, a few are an IOU for an IOU but at ost like 1 gold or silver for one of my second gens. Some are gifts I owe and even the one 2nd gen I did offer up to trade the most was like 1-2 CB metals and like a couple other uncommon/semi rare dragons/eggs like red dorsal, tan ridge wing, etc.

 

So Anyone out there offering like 3 Golds and 4 Silvers for a 2nd gen is trying waaaaaaaay to hard to get the attention of a prize winner and probably isnt close to the reality of offers one could get for a second gen.

That may be true... the problem is that people see those and it is PERCEIVED a certain way, even if that perception is wrong.

Edited by Silverswift

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Then it should bestated as such and not as a fact. I remember Amazon one told me that since we don't have solid proof of how raffles are calculated in terms of winners, we should not state that we know and as such should be increased, but more that we assume and would maybe like an increase if it hasnt happened already.

 

As such if something is personally viewed a certain way, then it should be stated as such and not made to seem like it is an actual fact.

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And I am making the also obvious point that if we don't choose to trade huge amounts for them, things can stay nice and quiet and polite and we CAN enjoy ourselves. I have only once ever PMd a prize owner asking for a 2nd gen. They said no - at least not for a long while. End of.

 

The one I have was gifted out of the blue. If we all stop asking winners, asking for changes that fairly clearly aren't on the cards, challenging TJs rations (we have NO idea what proportion of participants win; we have NO idea how many there are) and stop "expecting" TJ to change something just because we want 2nd gens - that kind of thing might well happen more.

 

 

Lol, I've been gifted out of the blue by wonderful people, too, or I wouldn't have any low-gens. smile.gif

 

 

You're making good points, only - I'm not asking Prize owners to trade, you're not asking Prize owners to trade, lots of people aren't asking Prize owners to trade, but we're part of a very large group, and it only takes a few hundred of us asking owners to trade all at once to cause a nervous breakdown they had no intention of triggering.

 

Some people who can, just keep offering more and more to try to tempt Prize owners to squash them onto slowly moving/unmoving lists, which may not be getting many of them anywhere, even if accepted, and which keeps Prize trades at an astronomical level - but we can hardly tell them how to play or what to offer.

 

A lot of us might take years to collect the number of rare dragons some people offer for 2nd gens - or forever, or never, considering what the offers have worked their way up to - and the only way we could ever have hoped to do this would have been over years of effort and handing every rare we caught over toward an advance debt we might never pay off enough to actually receive one.

 

And I think most of us less able catchers abandoned such notions some time ago, at least I certainly did.

 

 

The fact remains that it's the situation causing the problems, and virtually all of us are affected, one way or another, if only because there's no avoiding the issues and the effects are spreading even into requests for restrictions on inter-site communications between players not formally introduced.

 

The fact that we have no idea of so many factors doesn't exactly help, actually...

 

 

We aren't 'challenging' TJ, (at least I'm not, and it doesn't seem to me that most people are,) we're saying that there are problems and trying to come up what some of us variously consider to be potentially workable improvements which we hope he'll consider, if he doesn't already have more alleviation in the works.

 

I'm not the only one who's pointed out that TJ's phrasing is ambiguous enough to allow us to hope that he's already on this, although there's no telling in what manner or to what extent, if any, this might be planned, if indeed he is.

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Well, it's still fact that you could trade away all your 2nd gens to people who are offering insane amounts of rares. Since these offers turn up more than once every two weeks, all you'd need to do is stalk the trading threads once you managed to breed one - and make sure the little one doesn't grow up too quickly.

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You could, doesn't mean all do. Some might, some might not, so it is not a fact that all Prize owners are drowning in CB rares, Metals, and the such, its a perceived notion, and a personal perception more than an actual fact. As such it should be kept as a perceived personal notion than a solid fact.

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I would point out one thing that someone mentioned in another thread.

 

TJ didn't say he wasnt raising the number of prize winners.

What he said is that he had a number that he figured was acceptable... this could mean he has already done something about it.

 

After all, no announcements have gone up yet as to how many winners there are.

 

To adress your post, the thought occures to me that it isn't ALL of the prize owners that are like that. There are those that would be willing to reduce their own 'priviledge' via some form of compromise... such as an increase int eh number of prizes given out, multiclutching or ect... the trouble is that like in any group, there are good and bad. There are those among the owners who want to maintain that "immortal rich status" you refer to. The thing is that they don't all.

 

 

 

 

It's very true that many CB owners are apparently not concerned about having an immortally rich status, and many are having fun simply being able to make pretty babies, trade for dragons they couldn't before, gifting to watch people's eyes and smiles bulge, and generally behaving like the same perfectly nice people they were prior to winning.

 

But I'd like to add, if I may, that TJ also didn't actually state that he'd ceded control of the site to any users who happened to win Prizes, and that whatever he does will ultimately be his decision, even if he does take feedback into consideration.

 

WE, as users one and all, need to work on achieving compromise in the Suggestions we make, and as users, we hope that TJ will work on compromising with us.

 

But it does seem to be a potential error to suppose, (if this should be the assumption, as it sometimes seems,) that the wishes of any portion of any small group among the members will determine TJ's direction in any area. smile.gif

 

(Speaking as One Who's Often Wrong, lol)

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