ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

[birdzgoboom]

Um, before this gets any further afield, this issue isn't, and should never be, an "Us against You" situation.

 

Artists here are just people. Just players like yourselves. Yes, TJ respects our vision for our creations and if Marrionetta said she didn't want her tinsels released incave TJ would likely respect that.

 

But please don't go singling us out like we're some foreign species, and a dangerous one at that.

 

Talk about how you think this helps or hurts the game, sure. You can mention whether or not the artist(s) are for or against, though that isn't the final word. Otherwise I think you should leave the artists out of it.

 

(most of the people here do appreciate the art we do for the site. There was a time that wasn't so true but now it's better. But we do what we do because we like to art and we like DC. Whether you art or not, the biggest difference between us and you is we sprited or helped sprite something TJ liked enough to use.)

I second this post hardcore.

 

It's getting a little scary for me to even come into the Suggestions section... ;;

 

ETA: I still think that if a prize is made as a prize, it should be kept that way. That's what they were made for, after all....v.v" I wouldn't like seeing them dropping in the cave.

Edited January 10, 2015 by birdzgoboom

[Obscure_Trash]

This thread is not about artists. It is important for the artist to get a say. It is not important for us to sit here talking about what we think about artist say and how important that is. This thread is about release of prize dragons in cave. Keep in mind off-topic posts are considered spam and can and will (and have) earned warns.

[CNR4806]

At least you're honest. 

 

 

 

...that wouldn't exist without the artists. 

 

 

 

It's a game about the dragons the artists create.

 

 

 

 

That's exactly what I would do were I an artist here.  Sure, I'd want people to be happy, and I'd hope they were, but dog me about my creation, insult it, rip it to shreds,  demand extensive changes to my vision to placate you once too often and I'd be done.  People get the dragons...and the artists work... for free.  But people still want to look a gift horse in the mouth.   

 

 

 

Nor should the DC player base be trying to do the same.   

 

On my other favorite game people are highly respectful and appreciative of the artists there and the work and effort they put into the site, as it always should be.  There is so much that goes on behind the scenes and into making an entire site work, including events, which artists are also involved in, it isn't even funny.  It's massive what goes on and most people aren't even aware of the sheer amount of work. Imo, and I know I'm in the minority, what an artist/site owner envisions for their creation should be more important than any site user's personal wants. 

 

On the other site, sure, they want to make you happy, and have made some changes because a huge percentage of the user base asked for it...but it's also understood, and the owner will let people know real quick,  that if  they decide to do something, change something or add something or take something away or whatever, and you aren't happy, you'll simply have to live with it because some things stand in stone based on their vision alone and they won't change their decisions for you.  *shrug* 

 

Here, it just feels to me like people think anything and everything they're unhappy about should change immediately just for that reason, no matter who else or what is involved, which to me doesn't feel right at all.

It is funny how barebone my post has suddenly became. The last time I checked it had 3 paragraphs and a note section. All the points that I'm suddenly not making in my post when quoted by you are also quite appaling. I must be really bad at remembering what I posted.

 

If you want to paint me as anti-artist by selective-quoting then you can forget it. I'm describing a worst-case scenario where player and site interests clash so horribly with artist opinion that they're utterly incompatible, which I have made extra-clear that it is not what I'm describing this thread with.

 

I also have, times and times again in various threads, acknowledged artist influence over the cave's operations. The point I've been illustrating the whole time is that while valuable, their opinion is not absolute and should not be. The job of making the absolute decision on any given matter should be TJ's and TJ's only; it is his job to weigh the artist's opinion against conflicting player opinion and make the final decision based on them, not mine, not yours, not anyone in the playerbase and not the artists'.

 

If TJ is making a decision in favor of any particular party's view in a severe opinion clash (whether it includes an artist or not), so be it. Until then, no one has the right to silence any other's opinion.

 

=============================================================

 

I'm still not really convinced that releasing prizes is going to negate the damage done by introducing new prizes (which will become old prizes and released). It certainly makes collection better because the CBs will not be ultra-inaccessible million-in-a-one-chance forever, but it will not fix the trade market as long as new prize breeds are being pumped out.

 

As many have said, it is just going to shift the focus of trade from old prizes to new prizes in a neverending cycle, which in my opinion might be actually worse than what we currently have, because the current prize breeds have many years to develop their current population levels, while the new prize breeds will all start from scratch, which will lock us in a perpectual cycle of reliving the horror of new prize crazes.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CNR4806

[stagazer_7]

As many have said, it is just going to shift the focus of trade from old prizes to new prizes in a neverending cycle, which in my opinion might be actually worse than what we currently have, because the current prize breeds have many years to develop their current population levels, while the new prize breeds will all start from scratch, which will lock us in a perpectual cycle of reliving the horror of new prize crazes.

I'm not sure about situation becoming worse if there was a proper Cave release, like with other species - any way you look at it, by doing this, their population would rise. Sure, they would still be rare and a fair share of players would likely miss the release date (like I did with Almadines ;_ and not everyone would be able to catch one even if they'd be present and yes, there would be a lot of complaining about how hard they'd be to catch and unfair advantages of some players. So basically the same situation as with every other release, a lot of noise in the beginning and then eventually people would come to terms with it and focus on newer dragons. It would be the same as with CB Metallics. These are dragons that are extremely hard to get, but not impossible if you're either very skilled, lucky (or both ^^) or come across a trade offer, where someone is asking for something you happen to be able to provide - hard to get, but with persistance and effort, not impossible.

 

Introduction of new Prize dragons is not necessarily interconnected with this topic. I only suggested this, because I personally don't mind people winning something awesome in raffles . But maybe that's just me being naive, since the Shimmerscale release was fun for me - sure, I couldn't afford one for a few months until the prices dropped, but I did get one in the end. Until then I enjoyed having another beautiful dragon in the game. I still enjoy having them in the game, I think others love them too or else there wouldn't be so much talk about them. ^^

Edited January 10, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Naruhina_94]

Maybe there could be a "pause" year? Before relasing a new prize dragon there could be one raffle where you win the prize dragon who has just been relased in cave. I know it doesn't make you feel special like when you win an exclusive prize. However it wouldn't be different from winning a CB gold from a raffle, which I still consider a nice and welcome gift.

If there isn't a new prize 2nd gen to ask for people will normally collect the old prizes CB and trading them into the forums.

The increasing number of old CB prizes will also helps a lot with second gens, who will become more available for normal people. 2nd gen gold and silver are quite affordable right now, even if you can't immediately buy a CB gold you can still trade for its 2nd gens.

 

Let's take an example with shimmer and tinsel:

 

2015: shimmer and tinsel relased as prizes with the January raffle.

2015: shimmer and tinsel become available in cave (maybe for DC birthday?)

2016: shimmer and tinsel are still relased as prizes with the January raffle.

They will still be available in cave during the 2016 year, so people will collect them only for "normal trades". Those who took a shimmer or a tinsel in the 2016 raffle will still have won something more valuable than a CB gold and precious for all the reasons stated before in this topic.

2017: a new prize will be relased.

Yes, many CB shimmer and tinsel will be offered in order to get the new prize's 2nd gens, but since the shimmer and tinsel have been relased in cave for two years from now their value has been adjusted. Also 2nd gens will be definitely more easy to trade, which is a big improvement for the trade market.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[CNR4806]

I'm not sure about situation becoming worse if there was a proper Cave release, like with other species - any way you look at it, by doing this, their population would rise. Sure, they would still be rare and a fair share of players would likely miss the release date (like I did with Almadines ;_ and not everyone would be able to catch one even if they'd be present and yes, there would be a lot of complaining about how hard they'd be to catch and unfair advantages of some players. So basically the same situation as with every other release, a lot of noise in the beginning and then eventually people would come to terms with it and focus on newer dragons. It would be the same as with CB Metallics. These are dragons that are extremely hard to get, but not impossible if you're either very skilled, lucky (or both ^^) or come across a trade offer, where someone is asking for something you happen to be able to provide - hard to get, but with persistance and effort, not impossible.

 

Introduction of new Prize dragons is not necessarily interconnected with this topic. I only suggested this, because I personally don't mind people winning something awesome in raffles . But maybe that's just me being naive, since the Shimmerscale release was fun for me - sure, I couldn't afford one for a few months until the prices dropped, but I did get one in the end. Until then I enjoyed having another beautiful dragon in the game. I still enjoy having them in the game, I think others love them too or else there wouldn't be so much talk about them. ^^

Not impossible, but prizes (in the sense of current or non-public-release prizes) will always be harder than what they are right now as they're constantly locked in the state of being anywhere between 0 to 4 years after initial release while new breeds will keep being pumped out to complicate things further.

 

Also, I think you're missing a bit of the context of my post, which I'm partially at fault as there are earlier posts made by me, which has points that I didn't refer to in the post that you quoted. I support the release of prize dragons as a mean to terminate raffles forever. I just don't agree with the "raffle new prize and release old prize, then raffle new new prize and release new prize" cycle as suggested in the OP and discussed heavily in the thread.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CNR4806

[Naruhina_94]

Not impossible, but prizes (in the sense of current or non-public-release prizes) will always be harder than what they are right now as they're constantly locked in the state of being anywhere between 0 to 4 years after initial release while new breeds will keep being pumped out to complicate things further.

 

Also, I think you're missing a bit of the context of my post, which I'm partially at fault as there are earlier posts made by me, which has points that I didn't refer to in the post that you quoted. I support the release of prize dragons as a mean to terminate raffles forever. I just don't agree with the "raffle new prize and release old prize, then raffle new new prize and release new prize" cycle as suggested in the OP and discussed heavily in the thread.

That's interesting. So you want to end this cycle by relasing old CB prizes in cave and not introducing more? I could agree with it this would end the drama. However I would still want to see more shiny and amazing dragons relased, raffle or not. The raffle is well accepted because everyone could have a micro-chance to win without too much efforts. I think that the idea of "get randomly hit by luck" will be difficult to be erased.

Could you please think about a solution to actually relase more new shiny and nice breeds in cave without the market immediately focus on them? People seem to like new prize dragons ideas, I've seen many posts where people were asking for pigmy prizes, new shiny and amazing dragons etc... Even if prizes will never be relased in cave I think that we will have more new prize breeds, because I'm afraid TJ could find boring to relase the same breeds every year. The first time it was a surprise, that's the nice thing of winning something new, I suppose.

 

What do you suggest if not relasing them in cave if new prize breeds are added?

Edited January 10, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[stagazer_7]

Not impossible, but prizes (in the sense of current or non-public-release prizes) will always be harder than what they are right now as they're constantly locked in the state of being anywhere between 0 to 4 years after initial release while new breeds will keep being pumped out to complicate things further.

 

Also, I think you're missing a bit of the context of my post, which I'm partially at fault as there are earlier posts made by me, which has points that I didn't refer to in the post that you quoted. I support the release of prize dragons as a mean to terminate raffles forever. I just don't agree with the "raffle new prize and release old prize, then raffle new new prize and release new prize" cycle as suggested in the OP and discussed heavily in the thread.

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, I admit I haven't managed to read everything and must have missed a lot of previous discussions. ^^' While I do like the idea of new Prizes being introduced and then made available in-Cave after a few years more, I wouldn't really mind your suggestion being implemented either (I'm not miffed about the situation as it is either, but I do think Prizes have upset the trading system and would like to see this somehow fixed/ballanced out). Shiny and nice dragons will still be released like all other dragons and life would go on.

 

I would like the raffles to remain, because giving people the chance to win awesome things like CB Hybrids, Holidays, Frills and other neat dragons, is fun. But since the Prize releasing system is already somewhat established, I guess I was doing my thinking within the box and didn't think outside it.

Edited January 10, 2015 by stagazer_7

[djengis]

No, they're called Prizes for a reason and should stay as such.

This!

[olympe]

You know, this "Things are the way they are for a reason and should stay the way they are!" argument is quite old. It could be applied to pretty much everything. If it was, the site wouldn't change at all. And there are quite a few positive changes I've seen happening over the years - all of which could be countered with that stupid argument above.

• Introduction of new breeds. (We have x number of breeds for a reason and shouldn't add any more.)
• Introduction of hybrids. (We have all breeds in the cave for a reason... Okay, so before the first "true" hybrid, we had geodes...)
• Introduction of Teleport. (We have risky AP trading for a reason...)
• Introduction of Bite (vampire BSA). (Vampires can't reproduce for a reason...)
• Pumpkins becoming part of the pygmy breeding group. (Pumpkins cannot breed for a reason...)
• Unnaming/Renaming. (We have names set in stone for a reason...)
• The AP doesn't block the cave any more. (The AP blocks the cave for a reason...)
• Higher egg/hatchie limits, based on trophy. (We have the limits we have for a reason...)

The funny thing is that many of the people who tell everybody that things are the way they are "for a reason" often fail to be able to tell that reason.

 

What I'd like to see is people not just citing the "for a reason" argument for whatever suggestion they see, but instead considering what that reason might be, and whether DC would benefit from a change of policy for other reasons. Also, please don't bring up the artists' opinion time and again. Yes, their opinion counts - but first of all, they can speak for themselves and second, there's always the chance that they might change their mind. They're human, too. Calling out users for "being disrespectful towards the artists" for still discussing the matter after an artist's statement of being not fond of an idea doesn't help to accomplish anything, and it doesn't put you in the right.

 

(Yeah, go report that. Maybe this post is calling someone out again.)

[CNR4806]

Could you please think about a solution to actually relase more new shiny and nice breeds in cave without the market immediately focus on them? People seem to like new prize dragons ideas, I've seen many posts where people were asking for pigmy prizes, new shiny and amazing dragons etc... Even if prizes will never be relased in cave I think that we will have more new prize breeds, because I'm afraid TJ could find boring to relase the same breeds every year. The first time it was a surprise, that's the nice thing of winning something new, I suppose.

 

What do you suggest if not relasing them in cave if new prize breeds are added?

... If more shiny are desired by the players, release them as regular rares?

 

Sure, the trade market will still be eschewed for at least a while, but the damage will not be as everlasting as prizes due to the continous supply of fresh CBs, and however low that supply is it would still be much higher than annual raffles of prizes can ever hope to reach.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CNR4806

[Naruhina_94]

... If more shiny are desired by the players, release them as regular rares?

 

Sure, the trade market will still be eschewed for at least a while, but the damage will not be as everlasting as prizes due to the continous supply of fresh CBs, and however low that supply is it would still be much higher than annual raffles of prizes can ever hope to reach.

Raffle could continue to be used to spread CB ALTs, Hybrids, frills and old Christmas holidays besides shimmer, tinsel and rare stuff. If this could be implemented with relasing shimmer and tinsel in cave it would be a great improvement anyway. However I will miss the chance to see more "prize status" breeds.

 

EDIT:

Honestly I don't know how the majority of he users will react to another "no new prize breed" suggestion. They don't seem to like it, imo.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[Fuzzbucket]

EDIT:

Honestly I don't know how the majority of he users will react to another "no new prize breed" suggestion. They don't seem to like it, imo.

I've not seen anyone object to keeping just the two we have as the prizes. That said these threads are beginning to make me crosseyed,so maybe I just missed it.

[Fiona]

I've not seen anyone object to keeping just the two we have as the prizes. That said these threads are beginning to make me crosseyed,so maybe I just missed it.

You just missed it, Fuzz. There are several people, especially in the "no new prize dragons" thread, saying they want new prizes. I do myself because new shinies are always fun. But at the moment I'm also considering whether or not it's best to wait on that for awhile because of the trade issues.

 

I don't like the idea of no raffles. I think they're fun. I'm not fond of the idea of releasing prize breeds in the cave with the purpose of ending the raffles. I'm against releasing the prize breeds in the cave if we continue to introduce new prize breeds and have raffles because that becomes a never ending cycle that just perpetuates the issues we have now.

[Fuzzbucket]

You just missed it, Fuzz. There are several people, especially in the "no new prize dragons" thread, saying they want new prizes. I do myself because new shinies are always fun. But at the moment I'm also considering whether or not it's best to wait on that for awhile because of the trade issues.

 

I don't like the idea of no raffles. I think they're fun. I'm not fond of the idea of releasing prize breeds in the cave with the purpose of ending the raffles. I'm against releasing the prize breeds in the cave if we continue to introduce new prize breeds and have raffles because that becomes a never ending cycle that just perpetuates the issues we have now.

Oh. That's sad - as over time it WOULD tend to iron things out rather.

[Sheriziya]

Hey all,

 

Thank you _Sin_ for bumping this topic again

 

I've been reading all the reaction since the first bump this year and I've re-read (my) old suggestions. It's hard to come up with a solution we'd all be happy about. I have to admit I kinda like the idea for the Mana game (or something else) to get CB prizes, but that's the subject of another topic and since TJ wants all suggestions seperated (as stated and linked in the OP here) I will not discuss that option here (despite the fact that I see an interesting combo).

 

I've been thinking and thinking again about a solution that may contribute to a solution to these problems:

What's the base of this thread?

Trading Value relatedleaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

 

Breeding related

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

 

Prize pool related

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

 

Sentimental value related

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

non-forum scroll owners

ETA: Scrollowners who don't visit/use the forum, or are to shy/insecure to trade hardly have a chance in getting a (low-gen) prize dragon

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

I've also reread TJ's statement about the Coal version of the prize:

I don't agree with the core premise of this thread. I see absolutely no need for a "consolation prize." Sorry, but not everyone gets to be a winner, and if I felt that the raffle was unfair, I'd rather simply not have them than give out a participation token.

Just to clarify: The Coal version was going on the assumption all raffle participants (not necessarily all players!) besides the prize winners will get a coal version which is not the case in the topic were discussing the underlying thread.

 

I think the solution I made last year based on Slaskia's suggestion was not necessarily a Coal version, as Naruhina suggested, but merely the introduction of a new breed in the cave and as an extra the prize winners get a bronze/silver/gold version of this new breed. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough last year.

 

Taking into consideration:

• I see several people fear there will not be enough CB Tinsels and Shimmers,

• Marionetta has stated that she wouldn't do a recolor for a coal version of Tinsels and isn't really enthusiastic about releasing the Tinsels into the cave,

• and others have said that with new breeds we could perhaps introduce a new mechanisme,

• we have no January release up until now and many players think it's a long wait until the February Valentine release

I'd like to propose the following:

Base:

* All future prize breeds are an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and alts/variations like the Snowangels and the Black Sweetlings. This alt coloring will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the non-metal color is released into the cave at the same time the prizes are send to the winners. Let's say the actual prize is the prize-winner's Alt and the non-metal is the normal breed which gets its release in the cave in January (Yay, we have a January release from now on!).

* Shimmer-scales & Tinsels stay as prizes in the Raffle

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle (I assume any solution we will come up with will NOT be implemented this year):

Raffle 1: Shimmer-scales and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes (1, 2 and 3) in raffle, like we already have had with the Tinsels and Shimmer-Scales. Dragon 1 normal non-metal color is released into the cave permanently as the January breed release.

Raffle 2: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release.

Raffle 3: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version now becomes available for HM as CB.

Raffle 4: Shimmer and Tinsels have the normal Bronze, Silver, Gold Prizes like always. Dragon 4 with gold/silver/bronze version gets added for prizes in the raffle and is permanently released into the cave as the new January Breed release. Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in the raffle for the last time. Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version now becomes available for HM as CB.

Etc.

Let's review this situation, what would this mean?:

What would be the consequences of this solution?

• We have a release in January!
• Exclusivity of Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels: this way the Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels still will have exclusivity, although it will go down every year when there are more winners who have them. True, they won't get an in-cave release (which is what I'd prefer personally, but I think /expect that's not gonna happen), but that will only be for these two.
• Exclusivity for new breeds: The prize winners of the new breeds are easily recognizable because they have a scroll which is coded for the alt. Yes, this does mean prize winners will NOT have the normal breed's image on their scroll (there, go discuss the "unfairness" of that situation). That is their exclusivity.
• All players (Like Fuzz stated in the Improve raffle thread) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle, including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". AND everyone has a good chance to get the the normal color of the new breed.
• We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.
• More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.
• IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket, at least if we've got new prize breeds. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it? I don't know how it will be regarding the shimmers and tinsels. I still feel like they'll still be the cause of a certain unbalance, but perhaps it will be less than it is now.

In the above consequences I've excluded the things which are strictly related to the other suggestions. Although I do still think all the "base" suggestions from the original thread can NOT be seen separately, TJ prefers to discuss them separately and that's why I made the decision to exclude those consequences. Nor is the new suggestion for the game to get prize dragons/rare breeds included here (Although this could be a very interesting combination IMHO).

 

Questions remaining

1. If you didn't win anything in Raffle 1 and 2, but you win one of the new prize dragons as an HM, will all your dragons be retroactively be recolored? Errr.... I'd assume that much, yes.

2a. Is the new January breed (Normal non-metal-colored) a rare dragon, semi-rare or perhaps more common dragon?

2b. Would the new January breeds only drop in certain biomes? That might help in the "frustration" of getting the wrong rare dragon.

3. Will this be the one "magical" turningpoint that helps balance the market?

 

tl;dr:

* All future prize breeds will have an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and which will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the normal non-metal color is released into the cave as the January release.

* Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels remain as prizes

* New breeds with prize colors will be prizes for two years and after that become available as HM.

[Fuzzbucket]

Too long to quote - but - you'd just get people wanting 2gen offspring NAOW from the ACTUAL prize dragons - just as you do now.

 

Nice idea - but I honestly think NOTHING is going to help except a generalised change in attitude among (many but not all) players. Which - ain't gonna happen !

Edited January 10, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[kitsune93]

I have to agree with fuzzbucket.

 

Even with them being released into the cave, they would still be uber-rares and hard to catch which would still make people beg for 2 gens.

And they would still breed poorly making their trade prices really high.

 

 

Also, Sheriziya's idea is really cool and seems fun but it wouldn't fix anything.

[Sheriziya]

I do think the "demand" will be less, though. I think you can compare it to the demand of 2nd gen off spring of Black Sweetlings. A part of the userbase got these alts because of a glitch happened first, if I remember correctly and the alt was to replace the lost sweetlings. There are people who are quite excited about getting an offspring from said alt, beit a sweetling or a normal breed. I don't what the "waiting lists" for these kind of 2nd gens are.

 

I would see the new breeds (mind you, NOT the Tinsels and the Shimmer-Scales!) more like that. All players will (eventually) get the new breed from the cave (depending on how rare/common the new breed is, players will have it sooner or later like with any new breed) while offspring from the alt is an "extra".

 

All in all, in this case the problem might be not so big because people already have the normal breed and know they can't get the alt, only in the lineage or when they happen to win the prize/HM themselves.

 

Currently people want a 2nd gen so that they can build lineages early on, instead on having to build on what others already build. With this new system I proposed, this doesn't matter.

[Fiona]

Sheriziya, your "solution" is just coal dragons under a different name, which has already been vetoed. The only difference between participation prizes and this suggestion is that the offspring of the shiny versions won't breed true on other people's scrolls. It solves nothing.

 

And believe me when I say that even if the eggs all went the plain color except the ones the winners were given as prizes there still would be a great demand for the eggs. The demand for eggs from spriters' alts proves that.

[Sheriziya]

Well, if we have to view it that way, I'm just out of solutions..... I really have no ideas left anymore.

[stagazer_7]

* All future prize breeds will have an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and which will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the normal non-metal color is released into the cave as the January release.

* Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels remain as prizes

* New breeds with prize colors will be prizes for two years and after that become available as HM.

I like the rest of your post, but I'm not too fond of an alt as a prize. An alt to reward the spriter for their hard work yes, of course, but not as a raffle win. Can't Prizes simply be exclusive non-alts for a few years, before being released in Cave?

 

Having more CB dragons would definitely lessen the demand, simply because there would be more dragons to breed and produce eggs. Just look at 4th and 5th gen Prizes - those were quite expensive in the first months of a new Prize release, but later, when more eggs were being bred they became easier and easier to obtain. Now, getting a higher gen Prize is relatively easy precisely because there are so many people that breed them. Shorter, pretty lines would still be expensive, like regular Metals lines are, because they're a challenge to breed, but their price would drop, because there'd be more of them to meet the demand of the market.

Edited January 10, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Naruhina_94]

Time will give us the proof of what we're saying is true, Sheriziya. People will still be unable to make fair trades for 2nd gens prizes and the number of CB prizes given out with the raffle will still be to low due the winners who will abandon DC/don't breed for their own reasons. We like to collect dragons, so probably a new and interesting prize dragon will be introduced and there will still be even more drama because "normal" people won't be able to afford none of them, old or new prizes.

We don't have to change color or relase a "fake version" of prizes in cave. We need to show that the only fair way to spread a dragon breed is letting it be relased in cave, where everyone can have a chance to get it because there will be a proper number of CBs given out. Leaving it into the hands of few people will ONLY makes elites and I don't see how they could improve the game by ruling the market with their dragons.

Are dragons created for every person who wants to play or only for few lucky ones? This is the real question. And don't bring up the "you can collect the sprite anyway" because it's old and I've already replied to that.

This game is based on collecting CB dragons from the Cave or from the AP and breeding them. If I can't breed a dragons that has perfectly normal breeding mechanics and it's different only because of the way it has been originally relased than there is something wrong with it.

I'm not asking to mix pigmy and drakes as someone said. I'm asking to breed a CB normal dragon with another one of my choice.

 

I would also point out that DC has none trade market inside the game itself. How are supposed to have a shimmer those users who don't have a forum account? Hoping that a prize is abandoned to the AP seems ugly to me. Why you can't with your own efforts find and catch it instead of depending on other's wishes? That's not something I like, that's all.

I think that the "pause" year could work. Two years or more without new prize dragons while you can actually find the "current" ones in cave. I wish TJ could give us his thoughts about this, because this IS an issue as long as it receives reply every year around raffles. This is NOT a melodramatic and childish desire of newbies who wants the rare dragon in their scroll naow.

This is a suggestion made by people who have played for years and had seen how the game has changed and are totally entitled to give their opinions because they are made with the only purpose of improving the game.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[Syphoneira]

I still do like the fact that TJ's been introducing new and different things, even if I may not always like those things or some of the effects.

 

And I still like the concept of the Raffle, the fact that there's a random distribution of eggs among the community in a manner which does not depend on recipients having great computer speed or having particular dragons in order to receive a special dragon exclusive in its CB form to those selected.

 

The problem lay only in the very low percentages distributed and the low breeding rates among those CBs (and lower gens).

 

This resulted in the very few owners being pressured by slow production levels and a relatively huge - absolutely impossible - number of people wanting to get on lists.

 

This was entirely predictable.

 

We are typically here because we are a fanatic group of dragon collectors and we are going to want new eggs *now*.

 

This is why a lot of us are at DC, where this is usually achievable for most, and not at some competitive site with lots of exclusives, which many of us would avoid like the plague.

 

DC forms our niche, and vice versa.

 

Life may indeed be hard and cruel, so many of us come here to have fun and get away from whatever hardship and misery we endure, rather than pursuing more of it in our leisure time.

 

Wanting to be able to collect dragons is the reason we're here, and if we weren't greedy dragon collectors, we'd be somewhere else.

 

Calling each other names gets us nowhere - increasing the numbers of CBs and the production rate of the lower gens would help, (although it seems some owners object to this,) and even if of all Prizes would help a little.

 

Ending the raffle and introducing these into the Cave would, I think, rather suck.

 

 

If various factors result in something experimental heading into an unfortunate direction, rather than abandon the still-potentially-beneficial experiment, why not simply alter the appropriate and controllable factors - such as increasing numbers issued and produced - to improve outcomes?

 

 

We have only, at this point, the two methods of random distribution of potentially valuable eggs into the community - the AP/multiclutching and the Raffle.

 

Only the Raffle gives an equal, if virtually non-existent chance, to everyone, regardless of wage or condition, so to speak.

 

You don't need to be able to afford a decent computer or high-speed internet, it doesn't matter if you don't have the fastest reflexes or do have disabilities - you still have a faint but fair chance, just the same as anyone else, once a year, to win a Prize dragon.

 

As an Ultra-rare in the Cave? Not a breath of a chance.

 

 

One problem is that this great equalizer is grossly 'over-powered', at this point apparently on a permanent basis.

 

I've even heard talk recently from a few members about 'celebrity status' for members who've been lucky enough to have won Prizes???

 

This type of tabloid stuff hasn't surfaced before even for our fabulous spriters, thank goodness - we may treasure them, but drool only over their sprites.

 

Get a large enough prospective (despite often sucky breeding rates,) accumulation of 'currency', though, and some people seem wired to venerate whoever holds them.

 

Dunno, TJ, is this anything you planned for?

 

Because it hasn't done a whole lot to improve the site experience for many players, and it's frankly weirding it out.

 

I do personally like the concept of Prizes, with the CBs exclusive to winners, but if increased distributions of CBs AND production, with multiclutching basic to this on the graduated basis suggested elsewhere, had all been initially instituted, the current issues would by now have been reduced accordingly.

 

At this point, people have settled ideas as to what they're entitled to and objections have been made by some in every area.

 

Nonetheless, I'd personally hate to see the Raffle abandoned and Prizes becoming Ultra-Rares in the Cave, and would much prefer to see improvements in the situation.

 

They are Prizes, after all...

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't support making prizes alts to release them either. It is too reminiscent of coals.