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Sheriziya

ANSWERED:Release of Prize dragons in-cave

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Not current prizes, at least not tinsels since the person who made the tinsels already said no, but future dragons would not be given as prizes. They would be released into the cave prior to any contests/raffles, allowing people to get them, have them, get used to them. When a raffle does come around, they do not have 1st, 2nd, 3rd lace winners with shiny new dragons. Only Honorable mentions who can pick from almost any existing dragon already in the cave.

 

This means anyone who enters a contest wouldnt get like a 1st place gold shiny prize dragon. They would have the same choice of dragons all the other 100 Honorable Mention winners do of getting a gold, a holly, a hybrid, possibly tinsels and shimmers by then, and any new dragons released into the cave before then.

 

One final way to explain this.

 

Lets say a new Metallic 2 headed lindwurm is released into the cave. It has 2 color variations. Its lovely, everyone can get one, though they are rare. 5-6 months (If not a year later) a contest happens. There will be o placement winners (No 1st-3rd place winners), only Honorable Mention Winners. Those who do win can pick any dragon except for example a neglected, a vampire, etc. But they can pick previous 'old school prizes' like the tinsel and shimmer, and then anything else in the cave including the Metallic 2 headed Lindwurm.

 

Thats what I mean :3

 

I do not want there to be new 1st- 3rd place prize dragons if they are only gonna end up in the cave years later. Take away 1st-3rd place and instead just put anything new from now on straight into the cave where everyone can get one.

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Here is the Sheriziya post that recap the Artists response about this. As she said there are two main reason about why thery're reluctant to say yes:

 

1. The trading value

2. The sentimental value

 

We are discussing about the trading value and we've said many times how this wouldn't change so drastically to be a problem.

The sentimental value would fit the next relases IMO, especially if there shouldn't be any dragon better than another. Like I said if CB gold would had been a prize it doesn't mean that those Prize would have been less beautiful than Shimmer and Tinsel.

 

There would be the caos if suddenly tinsel and shimmer will be reaired as prize, as ADP said. This would exclude others to get them, forever, since there are already very few chances to get them with the current situation.

 

 

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@Anano: unless one of the very suggestions being discussed right now is added (not necessarily this one, although it'd have the biggest impact for sure), cutting the raffles doesn't eliminate the problem--it makes it worse. People are upset about how rare these things are in low gen / CB form when more are being added every year or so. Cut that new blood and I guarantee you frustration will increase, not poof.

 

And if the situation does improve, I'd rather see a new type of raffle than their ending, I think. Maybe pure HMs, but gold winners get four, silver three, etc. CB Hybrids / Alts / Custom codes are awesome and would be a great prize without skewing the player base as strongly (at least I hope so!). After all the only route to get a prize is through the winners, even if it's indirect, but everyone can get 2gs of the other stuff through their own efforts.

YES ! This was what I suggested WEEKS ago. A prize does not have to be "unique" to be very very welcome.

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Here is the Sheriziya post that recap the Artists response about this. As she said there are two main reason about why thery're reluctant to say yes:

 

1. The trading value

2. The sentimental value

 

We are discussing about the trading value and we've said many times how this wouldn't change so drastically to be a problem.

The sentimental value would fit the next relases IMO, especially if there shouldn't be any dragon better than another. Like I said if CB gold would had been a prize it doesn't mean that those Prize would have been less beautiful than Shimmer and Tinsel.

 

There would be the caos if suddenly tinsel and shimmer will be reaired as prize, as ADP said. This would exclude others to get them, forever, since there are already very few chances to get them with the current situation.

Simple comparison, presumably again as I'm fairly certain it has been pointed out by at least someone:

1. The offspring from a dragon that is not normally obtainable in a forseeable future (current situation)

2. The offspring from an early-release dragon that everyone and their parrots can get in the next few years

 

The major value difference lies in that one cannot reasonably expect to get a CB in the current case no matter how patient they are, which forces the value of the next-best substitute (ie. 2nd gens) up to a similar level that the CBs would be if they are in the cave, on a similar rarity as the 2nd gens as they are right now.

 

In the latter hypothetical situation, a state that this suggestion would lead to, the value is very likely to get dramatically lower than the current case well before the said widespread release, simply by the merit that the general public can expect get their hands on a CB as long as they're patient enough to wait for the general release, which means that the 2nd gens are, frankly speaking, nothing special and nothing of actual value to all but the most impatient of the impatient people, who just can't wait that few years to get their lineages started.

 

Prices for hollies, especially the less-pleasant ones, have been steadily going down ever since 2010, because people know that the poplulation is rapidly growing year by year, that they can actually afford to wait it out and strike when they think the prices are reasonable, as opposed to stacking every CB metal, ND and their own firstborn child in a gigantic offer to beg for one.

 

 

Supporting release of CB prizes into the cave into one thing, and being ignorant to or worse, promoting the obviously wrong assurance that trade value for prizes, especially of 2nd gens, will not go down is a whole different issue.

Edited by CNR4806

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But we do not need "VALUE":; those who are excited about lineages just "need" to be able to get the low gens. If they end up easy to get in the end, that's great, IMHO. The winners would already have had a few years of being "that special".

 

Not that I am in favour of making them available in cave; I'd just like to see one of the other suggestions, particularly multiclutching or making them available as HMs - and not introducing ANY more special ones so that there is an end to this whole thing.

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@CNR: While I agree their trade value would likely decrease, I don't think it would decrease to the point of them being worthless or even anywhere close to it. A few reasons for this:

 

1) Again, time factor. As you've said, some people might want to wait it out and catch their own instead of trading, but not everyone will. The suggested timeline is half of DC's current lifespan, sometimes more between when people get those exclusives and when they're released in cave. I have hit my quota of CB Metals long ago, so even if I had an assurance Shimmers were going to appear in-cave two years down the line, I wouldn't mind trying to trade any I grab for 2gs now.

 

2) People value special lines very highly. Thuweds and Dorkfaces are special in name and creation date only, yet their offspring are still extremely valuable in the lower generations. Almost every page of a trading thread has a few people saying "want: Shimmer / Tinsel from line I don't have, see list." This, combined with some easily seen marker of prize status (slightly different sprite, symbol next to name, whatever), should ensure their babies always stay valuable.

 

3) Last but not least... to be honest their prices could stand to come down a few pegs without being anywhere close to worthless. People aren't offering half a dozen CB Metals because it's all prize owners want, in most cases, but rather because they're so scarce you usually have to offer insane amounts to get on slowly moving lists. If low gen prizes were more available (through better breeding, more prizes, promise of an eventual release, whatever), they would hopefully be more obtainable and people would only feel compelled to offer 1-2 CB Metals per offspring. Because c'mon, isn't 1-2 of the normal rarest dragons really all that's needed for the worth of something you can breed all the time with the click of a button? (Well, when they give a shiny, at least--which is a different matter)

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2. The sentimental value

In the latter hypothetical situation, a state that this suggestion would lead to, the value is very likely to get dramatically lower than the current case well before the said widespread release, simply by the merit that the general public can expect get their hands on a CB as long as they're patient enough to wait for the general release, which means that the 2nd gens are, frankly speaking, nothing special and nothing of actual value to all but the most impatient of the impatient people, who just can't wait that few years to get their lineages started.
And how is this exactly a sentimental value? You've lost me at the point where you say the 2nd gens are nothing special.

The whole point of the sentimental value of the current CB prizes is that the winners feel they have won a prize, whether or not they decide to breed with it.

The moment you're talking about 2nd gens, you're talking about trade value, instead of sentimental value, in my humble opinion.

As for the pure sentimental value of the CB prize dragons (as in: Yay! I won a prize and it will forever be recognizable as a prize I won in the raffle!) I can, at least, partially understand the point of view of (some of the) winners. Sure, how will someone recognize YOUR dragon as the prize in the raffle, instead of the CB from the cave? On the other hand.... we've given several suggestions on how this could be done, but apparently none of the suggestions made were good enough.

Like I stated earlier, the Wikia list (almost) every prize dragon which has been handed out in the raffles. (Tinsel list, Shimmer list). Only those of which the owners haven't come forward have not been included in the list (or at least I assume that). Even name changes are kept on record in these lists!

Hence my earlier question, to which I haven't seen an answer yet, I think (or I overlooked it):

And just because I still don't understand this:

What's the difference when you compare the following two situations:

Situation 1:

Golden Moment (direct descendant from The Original Midas Dorkface and The Original Shallynaar) (famous anscestors and dito lineage)

vs

Elamef Dlog Edisi (gold dragon without the above lineage)

Situation 2:

Quantuma Centurion (direct descendant from Quantum Color from the 2012 raffle)

vs

Imaginary Shimmer scale from the cave with a similar lineage like Elamef Dlog Edisi with ancestor Shimmers from the cave instead of a normal gold.

 

Why would all of a sudden a descendant from Quantum Color be worth so less then before when the Shimmers would be released in-cave? I understand the Dorkface lineage is famous, but so are all the lineages from the original prizes, I dare to say. So, if they both are equally famous, what's the difference?

Let me put it differently. Let's assume the prize dragons were released in the cave after 4 years (2 years as prizes, 2 years as HM's). In that particular situation, what's the difference between:

Dragon one: The Original Midas Dorkface A gold dragon which was obtained in the cave, is famous for it's story and many people want a dragon from that specific dragon. Mind you, no specialness about the breed, except the fact it's a rare cave breed.

Dragon two: Quantum Color, handed out as a prize dragon, listed on the wikia (like The Original Midas Dorkface), loads of offspring to other owners, so I assume it's quite wanted.

Yes, I know it's a prize dragon. That much is obvious. But my point is, and that's exactly where the sentimental value comes into play:

How is it that The Original Midas Dorkface is so well known and apparently valuable for sentimental reasons while it's a "simple" golden dragon and everyone assumes the original prizes wouldn't be so well known if the Shimmer-scales were to be released in the cave.

I honestly STILL do NOT understand that part. Why is that? I mean, there's absolutely NOTHING special about The Original Midas Dorkface besides the story, or at least that's what I deduced from the description on the wikia. And yet, it's famous while there are thousands of other gold dragons!

In the thread Great Lineages Found in AP I've seen high-gen offspring of The Original Midas Dorkface which were not even gold dragons and people were extremely happy with the offspring because it was a (very messy) Dorkface. Where's the logic?

 

Prices for hollies, especially the less-pleasant ones, have been steadily going down ever since 2010, because people know that the poplulation is rapidly growing year by year, that they can actually afford to wait it out and strike when they think the prices are reasonable, as opposed to stacking every CB metal, ND and their own firstborn child in a gigantic offer to beg for one.
Again, this is pure trade value, imho, instead of sentimental value. After all, you're talking about prices.

 

Supporting release of CB prizes into the cave into one thing, and being ignorant to or worse, promoting the obviously wrong assurance that trade value for prizes, especially of 2nd gens, will not go down is a whole different issue.
Well, the basics of the original thread was.... to bring down the prices of the 2nd gens because of the insane market which we currently have. Just as a little reminder, here's the reason this thread was started and the original had continued for so long:

What's the base of this thread?

Trading Value related

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

Breeding related

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

Prize pool related

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

Sentimental value related

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

non-forum scroll owners

Scrollowners who don't visit/use the forum, or are to shy/insecure to trade hardly have a chance in getting a (low-gen) prize dragon

 

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard to actually collect every dragon you want.

So, yes. That part was intentional, although not liked by everyone, instead of us being ignorant to that fact.

tl;dr:

As for the trade value I guess it all boils down to:

Do we want to keep the insane prices as they are now or do we want a more balanced market and thus actually do something about it?

As for the sentimental value:

Please explain the difference between The Original Midas Dorkface and Quantum Color in the case of a release of prize dragons in the cave.

Cause I don't see the difference at all, as explained above.

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To some extent the person who owns Midas Dorkface was (or is still) popular to a point where many enjoyed the story and wanted one. Its blew up from there because its a funny story from a probably popular person. Its like those trends that start withing a group of friends where one is popular enough to have influence over a certain amount of people, they follow, and it becomes so popular that everyone starts to do it or wanting to do it.

 

That is the sentimental value. To some extent acceptance into a popular group of people with this dragon whether they understand the story or logic behind it or not.

 

Quantum Color on the other hand derives its sentimental value on its rarity and how it was obtained. Not everyone won, this person was lucky enough to get something unique and one of it kind to anything available in the cave. That is the sentimental value in it. Its shiny, its new, its yours, and no one else except a select few will have anything like it.

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To some extent the person who owns Midas Dorkface was (or is still) popular to a point  where many enjoyed the story and wanted one. Its blew up from there because its a funny story from a probably popular person. Its like those trends that start withing a group of friends where one is popular enough to have influence over a certain amount of people, they follow, and it becomes so popular that everyone starts to do it or wanting to do it.

 

That is the sentimental value. To some extent acceptance into a popular group of people with this dragon whether they understand the story or logic behind it or not.

 

Quantum Color on the other hand derives its sentimental value on its rarity and how it was obtained. Not everyone won, this person was lucky enough to get something unique and one of it kind to anything available in the cave. That is the sentimental value in it. Its shiny, its new, its yours, and no one else except a select few will have anything like it.

We are not asking to the winners to forget this. Why they cannot be happy to have won, share their unique prize that will still differentiate from those caught on the AP? We are talking about their story their names and even to visualize their difference between those relased.

If someone gift you an expensive car and after some years there is a competion where some person could win a car identical to yours by striving so much, the original car wouldn't be devalue, because its story would be different to all the other ones.

 

We are proposing to change the Viewed Lineage of an original CB prize dragon. It would be easy see the difference between them and those that would be relased, as if they original ones would have been recolored as ALTs.

Since in this game even the more little detail is important because it completly changes the sprite or the dragon itself I think that one of these suggestion could help to distinguish. Nobody could regret to have win, because their CB original prize dragons would still be different from everyone' else.

 

- Change name color

- Put a symbol ( ♣ ♠ ♥ ♦ ♚ ✶ ) near the name

- Add a nice frame to the CB Prize cell

- Make they have a colorated background

- Listed into the wikia (AUTO)

 

EDIT

I would honestly prefer this to the Multi clutch idea... if prizes relase eggs into the AP the winners would have the same no decision-making power of a relase CB prizes in cave + those that are stalking them could know when they bredd and get all the eggs + they would been their own dragons that are "robbed" of their eggs...

 

The current suggestion try to explain why a system based on merit, skill and a fair trad emarket can be a better alternative.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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This is why I keep moving for the removal of just prizes in genereal and just have a raffle/contest sustem that only has a large pool of HMs. Instead of getting shiny prize dragon trhough placement, they get the ability to get any new releases already in cave but that are hard to get like Golds, Silvers, etc.

 

Anything new that can be made should simply just go straight to the cave. Why delay it by 3 years, 4 years, just grab it, approve it, throw it in the cave as rare-common and then if a contests comes, no special prizes for anyone.

 

Its the concept of if so many people don't like winners getting something special and exclusive, no one gets something special and exclusive, everyone just gets the same thing at the same time, no wait, no fuss.

 

I hate the thought of giving something shiny and saying "Hey you won, but don't get too excited because 3 years from now you and everyone can catch 20 of them as you please in the cave.

 

Starscreams post really shows how I feel in a more eloquent yet harsher way. This post just says everything.

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This is why I keep moving for the removal of just prizes in genereal and just have a raffle/contest sustem that only has a large pool of HMs.

Actually, this would only shift the important trades to CB Alts. People are in this vicious circle for the exclusivity, and anyone can get a CB Gold or Silver, and some of us have no hard time grabbing multiples of them. What would we ever pick a cb gold, silver or any other normally available CB of it?

 

And then, suddenly, you could make CB hellhorse checkers. If you just could trade for them. But they are pretty exclusive, so would demand a high price too...

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Actually, this would only shift the important trades to CB Alts. People are in this vicious circle for the exclusivity, and anyone can get a CB Gold or Silver, and some of us have no hard time grabbing multiples of them. What would we ever pick a cb gold, silver or any other normally available CB of it?

 

And then, suddenly, you could make CB hellhorse checkers. If you just could trade for them. But they are pretty exclusive, so would demand a high price too...

 

Considerably they would be able to breed better though. Even then if contests are still at around 2 times a year with literally 100 HMs only, no placement prizes, there would still probably be enough people to breed and do as they please with 2nd gens.

 

That or like with vampires and what not, set Hybrids as a restriction as to what cannot be obtained as an HM prize. That way no exclusives in any way shape or form. Alts cant be cave born, not being allowed Hybrids, just what can already be obtained in the cave and shimmers/tinsels. That's it. No one gets anything exclusive or special, everyone gets what everyone can already get just easier.

Edited by AnanoKimi

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Hybrids don't have nearly the poor breeding of Prizes; the offspring of CB hybrids wouldn't be half as hard to obtain unless the vast majority of winners went for Hollies or Frills (and a substantial portion won't). And even then, they'd spread more easily simply because they're not rare as a species. I mean, I see hybrids fairly often in the AP and my dragons produce them pretty consistently (especially when I don't want them to!). Even my higher-gen prizes can't claim that; I get fails or not interested/no egg more often than not.

 

They would not be as exclusive as Prizes are, so there's no reason to exclude them from the HM choices.

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At this point I disagree with removing the raffles altogether while keeping the prize dragons out of the cave, for one big reason:

We already have CB tinsels and shimmers. Removing the ability to obtain them would not fix this problem, but would make them MORE exclusive, especially as people lose interest in games over time and so the CB winners would gradually drift away.

 

That's traveling in the wrong direction.

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Ive posted that if we do keep raffles and contests then rather than 1st through 3rd place prizes we just have a giant pool of HM winners who can choose from anything already in the cave, Hybrids I guess, and Tinsels/Shimmers. you can get something decent but nothing new and special this way. That way no one gets left out and there's no more "I want one, no fair, I want one to, I should get one" feelings.

 

Everyone can get a shot at the same things, no one gets anything special other than the possibility of old school prize tinsel shimmer.

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edit - also, ditto on what SolarCat said.

 

whcih is why i still stand with my original stance, keep it as a raffle and imo put the shims and tins as HM prizes and release an all new prize breed to help keep from overloading the breeding ratios on the current lines.

 

i do know that my shim and tin production has taken a nose dive since the new blood has grown and started breeding, and i breed about 50 lines a week dry.gif i do NOT want another breeding drought like in 2011, some of my lines still haven't recovered from that horrible occasion.

 

 

*sniped most of it to shorten my own post*

 

As for the sentimental value:

Please explain the difference between The Original Midas Dorkface and Quantum Color in the case of a release of prize dragons in the cave.

Cause I don't see the difference at all, as explained above.

you're comparing apples to oranges here.

 

the Dorkface and Thuweds are wanted because of their owner and the story behind the dragon. the intrinsic value is not based off the breed, its valuable despite the breed.

 

keep the story the same with Dorkface and change the species and you'd still have a highly sought after line (ie: intrinsic value)

 

 

the shimmers and tinsels OTOH have value because only a few people get CB's from them, so getting a line from any of them (and even more importantly a lineage you really want) is harder to achieve.

 

their value is driven by their avialablility.

 

this is why, if released into the cave, the value of all Tinsels and Shimmers would decrease; unless you get a shimmer who has an intrinsic value becuase of its story & owner (like Luckiest Catch as she was caught from the AP rather than won in the raffle and Amazon Warrior is just a great all around person)

Edited by Red2111

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Ive posted that if we do keep raffles and contests then rather than 1st through 3rd place prizes we just have a giant pool of HM winners who can choose from anything already in the cave, Hybrids I guess, and Tinsels/Shimmers. you can get something decent but nothing new and special this way. That way no one gets left out and there's no more "I want one, no fair, I want one to, I should get one" feelings.

 

Everyone can get a shot at the same things, no one gets anything special other than the possibility of old school prize tinsel shimmer.

That makes more sense, but aside from opening up all the "winners" (HM included) to picking a prize dragon of sorts, I'll confess I don't see how that part would be very different. But I do think it would help a little.

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That makes more sense, but aside from opening up all the "winners" (HM included) to picking a prize dragon of sorts, I'll confess I don't see how that part would be very different. But I do think it would help a little.

Any tinsels/shimmers won by HMs would still kind of be a prize. Around the concept of getting a frill. Tinsels/Shimmers wont be in cave but available as prizes for the participating winners. Not everyone will win mind you but the pool of HM winners will be large enough where hopefully tinsel population can increase.

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I'm sure the vast majority of HMs would choose a shimmer/tinsel anyway, considering we don't hear about people downgrading their prize often.

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Exactly. To some extent they remain a prize, and with so many people having the ability to choose between the two, then they can get their hands on one. Those who choose not to do not affect the lack of CB prizes at all.

 

I feel like I should post that idea in its own thread to see how people react to it. To have a discussion solely on it rather than me posting it in different places.

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From another thread and with approval from Slaskia herself, I thought I'd post this suggestion here:

Hm...what if...if there are new prize breeds in the future, the gold/silver/bronze prize is treated like a spriter's alt and a non-metal colored version was released at the same time the winners get theirs?

 

That way, everyone has a chance at a CB (from the cave release version), the winners have something special, but won't have the strangle hold on the market like the current ones do.

 

I say 'if there are new ones', as I'm one of those opposed adding more CB exclusives like these (heck, I was one of those that was very much opposed to the existence of prize dragons at all).  But, if there will be more prize breeds, this is how I would rather it be done.

 

Of course, the tinsels and shimmers would have to remain as they are, as I seriously doubt ANYONE would agree to offspring suddenly changing retroactively (would see the forums blowing up worse than when the golds were 'updated').

 

Just a suggestion...don't bite me too hard for it....

I think this might be a very viable solution for FUTURE prizes (as in new breeds). It doesn't give a solution for the current prizes, but perhaps AnanoKimi's suggestion could work here: limit them permanently/temporary to HM's and NOT release them into the cave.

 

With the following I'm going on the assumption I don't need to start yet again two seperate threads to discuss these possibilities smile.gif Especially since the two new bases are basically a) a variant on the prize dragon with a way to actually release the breed (not talking about the colors) into the cave which is what this particular is kinda about and b ) an option to keep the Shimmers and Tinsels, but not release them into the cave, since a lot of people are against them being released into the cave as we've seen so far.

 

So... taking these suggestions into considerations, how about this proposal for a non-time limited event?:

Base:

* All future prize breeds will have an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and which will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the non-metal color is released into the cave. Let's say the actual prize is the prize-winner's Alt and the non-metal is the normal breed.

* Shimmers & Tinsels become a permanent HM

 

Prize dragons released during the years following this last raffle:

Raffle 1: Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes (1, 2 and 3) in raffle, Shimmer-scales and Tinsels retire and become available for HM as CB. Dragon 1 non-metal color is released into the cave permanently.

Raffle 2: Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels are still retired and available for HM as CB.

Raffle 3: Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Dragon 1 with gold/silver/bronze version retires and becomes available for HM as CB, Shimmer-Scales and Tinsels remain available for HM's as CB. Dragon 2 with non-metal color is permanently released into the cave.

Raffle 4: Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Dragon 1 gold/silver/bronze version is still retired and available for HM as CB, just like the Shimmers & Tinsels.

Raffle 5: Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version becomes available for HM as CB, just like Dragon 1 and the Shimmers & Tinsels.

Raffle 6: Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Dragon 2 with gold/silver/bronze version is still available for HM as CB, just like Dragon 1 and the Shimmers & Tinsels.

Raffle 7: Special dragon 4 with gold/silver/bronze version for prizes in raffle, Dragon 3 with gold/silver/bronze version becomes available for HM as CB, just like Dragon 1, Dragon 2 and the Shimmers & Tinsels.

Etc.

 

Let's review this situation, what would this mean?:

What would be the consequences of this?

  • Exclusivity of Shimmers & Tinsels: with releasing them only to the HM's instead of the cave, I think the exclusivity remains. Especially since these two breeds will breed true. And yes, I do know several people think the Shimmers & Tinsels have already devalued because of the fact they were released for a second (or more) year and in higher amounts, but let's face it, with these low numbers of CB's I think we can still say there's quite the exclusivity for these two particular breeds.
  • Exclusivity for new breeds: It will be very apparent who the prize winners are (the ones with the gold/silver/bronze variant on their scroll. Granted, they will not breed true on other scrolls, but hey, it is very clear who's won the prize, right?
  • All players (Like Fuzz stated in the Improve raffle thread) have an equal chance to get something exclusive from the raffle, including "people with terrible connections, ancient machines, or arthritis which makes them unable to hunt well". AND everyone has a good chance to get the non-metal color of the new prize breed.
  • We get new blood for prizedragons on a regular basis which will keep the flow of low-gen prize dragons as well as high-gen prize dragons going. In my personal opinion it might also help in creating lineages you might otherwise not be able to create or would have to wait months/years before you'd be able to create it.
  • More prize dragons can be released, cause I can imagine there are a lot of spriters out there who have wonderful ideas for prize dragons. And it will give the possibility to have prize dragons with other kind of breeds, like pygmies, drakes, etc.
  • ETA: non-forum scrollowners now also have a better chance to get a (low-gen) prize dragon as far as the new breeds will go.
  • IMHO DC becomes a collecting game again instead of a game ruled for a greater part by the trademarket, at least if we've got new prize breeds. And after all, DC did start out as a collecting game we all loved, didn't it? I don't know how it will be regarding the shimmers and tinsels. I still feel like they'll still be the cause of a certain unbalance, but perhaps it will be less than it is now.
In the above consequences I've excluded the things which are strictly related to the other suggestions. Although I do still think all the "base" suggestions from the original thread can NOT be seen separately, TJ prefers to discuss them separately and that's why I made the decision to exclude thos consequences.

 

Questions remaining

1. Will prize dragons now actually produce more prize dragons (as in ratio questions)? I don't know. Some say they breed perfectly fine, while others say they're hard to breed. Apparently this is also dependant on the mate you choose. It seems changing a mate might actually help in getting better results. I do think, though, we have a better chance to get more prize dragons into the community. Please discuss this in the appropriate topic!

2. Will it stop shiny hatchies from growing up through the AP? That's the big question. That will only happen if a solution for that particular problem can be found for that particular problem.

3. Anything else that's not been answered/solved?

4a. Is the new prizebreed (non-metal-colored) a rare dragon, semi-rare or perhaps more common dragon?

4b. Would the new Prizebreeds only drop in certain biomes? That might help in the "frustration" of getting the wrong rare dragon.

5. Will this be the one "magical" turningpoint that helps balance the market?

 

tl;dr:

* All future prize breeds will have an alt which works the same way as a spriter's alt (as in breed not true, only on the prize-winner's scroll) and which will be the actual prize. The breed itself with the non-metal color is released into the cave.

* Shimmers & Tinsels become a permanent HM

* New prize breeds are introduced according to the above schedule.

 

Thanks for reading this and for helping us to improve the suggestion!

Edited by Sheriziya

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If this were to happen, I'm pretty sure many people would pick the old prize breeds instead. While spriters alts are fun for some, many also see them as color deviations that are not acceptable. biggrin.gif

 

also, if i could pick a bronze new prize or a gold old one, I know which I'd go for.

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Sherisiya, I like where this is going. I also suggested something here about something like this in terms of keeping them HM.

 

I just hope people have preference over other colors than just Gold. Silver is quite lovely :3 as is Bronze.

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Sherisiya, I like where this is going. I also suggested something here about something like this in terms of keeping them HM.

Thanks smile.gif I hope it will bring us to a solution.

I've been in doubt about the retirement after 5 years. That's why I didn't include it. It's already been several years since the introduction of the Tinsels and still people feel like there's a way to small pool of CB's. And with people sometimes leaving/not breeding anymore I think we do still need the option to keep CB's coming, otherwise like Fiona said: "That just opens a different can of worms, and insures that the low gen population of that breed eventually becomes increasingly scarce."

I think the rest of my suggestion is the same as yours smile.gif

This suggestion is of course a different one than Olympe's suggestion to keep all prizes in the raffle while adding new prizes.

 

I just hope people have preference over other colors than just Gold. Silver is quite lovely :3 as is Bronze.
And some might even say they prefer other colors than the gold ones.

 

If this were to happen, I'm pretty sure many people would pick the old prize breeds instead. While spriters alts are fun for some, many also see them as color deviations that are not acceptable. biggrin.gif

 

also, if i could pick a bronze new prize or a gold old one, I know which I'd go for.

I wonder if that would be the case. After all, like it's stated in another thread, there are 100+ breeds to choose from for HM, including alts, frills and christmas dragons. Each year we get new dragons added to that.

For me personally, if I would have the chance to choose between a Bronze Shimmer Scale (which currently is the only one I don't own yet) or a CB Soulpeace, I just might go for the CB Soulpeace, if only because I'm working on a lineage project with Soulpeaces where a CB might be a very interesting addition.

If I wouldn't have this lineage project, I know I'd go for the Bronze Shimmer Scale, since I don't have that one yet. All the others I do have.

Also, I think I've seen at least 1 prize winner state that s/he was slightly disappointed because it was "just another Tinsel" which s/he had already several of on the scroll. So I wonder if people would indeed automatically pick the prize breeds which breed true instead of the "spriter's alt version".

 

This morning I was wondering if it would be necessary to up the amount of HM's to have the possibility to get more CB Prizes (including Shimmers & Tinsels)

 

For completion sake I've included the suggestion from my earlier post to the original post.

Edited by Sheriziya

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in terms of the post i made, someone mentioned why retire them at any point? why did it matter to continue keeping them as HM for the rest of DC existence. I mentioned how personally it felt overwhelming but to others it might not. I actually believe it would not be that ad of an idea to simply just keep them as HM indefinitely. What do you think Sheriziya?

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