Description Force!

[Descripforce]

Alllll righty! It's Easter now and we've already got people working and hanging out, so we're off to a good start! Reviewing is such a good way to be both productive and collect Festival eggs. Even if you can't make it to the channel, your reviews really are a great help and we're thankful for everyone who puts time into doing it. Have a happy Easter and reviewing day!

[Obscure_Trash]

I just wanted to apologize for not being able to be around today. I start my new job tomorrow and today was moving day. Descriptions are on my list of things to do and as long as I don't *cough*have another semi-breakdown*cough* these will get done. With work I'll have to be on a schedule, so perhaps I'll just schedule like an hour a day to do these with extra time on weekends. :3

[Descripforce]

No problem, Sock! Real life always comes first. Good luck with that new job and moving!

 

We've gotten an update on the state of the queue, for those interested. It's a bit under 5,000 at the moment.

 

Here's a brief announcement from Yosofine, regarding the corrections she's been making and such:

The worst ones are these: using I and you, the to and too error, and the tenses changing in the middle of the sentences.

 

We also need to gently remind people to keep the stories PG rated. People are writing about diseases and gore, and using pretty strong stuff for a dragon adoption site. I hate having to reject because the story is too rough for a PG site. (talking about how the disease works or how the wounds drip)

 

From Dimar: I know we generally assume descriptions to be PG-13 max, but the gore and graphic imagery seems like it may be a bit too much. I know I'm guilty of letting gross things slide. I know briefly/vaguely mentioning alcohol and such is okay, since we discussed that with Sock regarding Herk's druggie dragons. But the violence seems to be a no-no.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Descripforce

[purpledragonclaw]

I was away for most of the day, but I still managed to review a few descriptions. I'll see if I can do some more throughout the week.

[love_HP]

Sorry that I've been busy with real life and seem to have a brain-drain (yes I have a complete idea for describing a female white dragon but with no inspiration to write it out). But anyway, I never forgot the descripforce thing.

(My actual intention is to bump the thread )

[JavaTigress]

I just wanted to pop in here and say thanks to all of you lovely people for getting our descriptions approved. Some of mine made it through over Easter and I was SO excited!

 

Thanks once again!

[pinkgothic]

Argh, got another description fiddled with that I expressly did not want anyone fiddling with (Kotanechiku). Dimar, stop making suggestions in your Accepts right away. *petulant footstomp*

 

But, no, seriously, a big thanks to the mods for the huge accepting spree!

 

(Dimar: If there's any doubt at all, I'm not being serious about my 'demand'. I appreciate every one of your comments.)

[Dimar]

Oh noes! I don't even remember the description, hehe. Tell the mods to stop listening to me instead!

 

I know you're kidding, dear. I'm sorry though! Maybe next time this happens, send me a PM explaining it. Then resubmit the description and I'll leave a different comment without my "suggestions". :3

[Dimar]

Depends on what it is. If it's a simple note directed towards the reviewers, like "Please accept this!" or "Hey reviewers, this should be okay because xx and yy", then I tell them to delete that part. If it's aggressive or demanding us to stop suggesting corrections ("I'll write it how I want!"), then it's obviously not acceptable but sometimes it's better to just Reject or Abstain and move on rather than continue arguing with someone who won't listen. The mods can take care of it better than reviewers can.

 

Sorry this is kinda vague: if you could share the particular example we'd be able to give a better answer. x3

[brairtrainer]

Question:

If a description includes comments that are about the reviewing process itself, or directed at the mods/reviewers, what do you do?

Popping in from my busy day: I do the same as dimar except I've also recomended that the person pm a mod, or if they are not on the forums to leave it. If we have a mod in the chat I have let them know when we have people leaving notes like that so they can be taken care of quickly (both notes as to the reasons and the 'I'll write how I want')

 

edit: As it is I've only had to pm a mod once instead of leaving a note, but I have one dragon who may get one because they reference another dragon. It depends on if I get the set done or not.

Edited April 25, 2014 by brairtrainer

[Descripforce]

Opinions Needed!

 

Currently, the acceptable use of second person or "you" in descriptions is ambiguous. There's nothing about it specifically in the Guidelines, only that switching tenses a lot from the usual 3rd person on the view page is confusing. But when you have to edit every general "you" to "one", descriptions can sometimes start sounding odd ("He can be a good friend, if you gain his trust" -> "He can be a good friend, if one gains his trust"), especially if you have to do that a lot in one description.

 

For a while, we rejected for any instance of "you". But TJ has stated that it's acceptable "if they "use it right"". However, we don't have clarification on what "right" is. So, let's get some input from the user base! Just let us know what you think is acceptable second person in descriptions and what's rejected.

 

Per Sock's suggestion, once we get some opinions gathered in here and hashed out what we want, we'll make a thread in the Suggestions section about it.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Descripforce

[pinkgothic]

"He can be a good friend, if one gains his trust"

 

Just for completion's sake: I don't find that odd at all.

 

 

Nonetheless, I don't think there should be a ban on second-person descriptions (at all, in fact, but that's a different matter), so I do strongly support this move.

 

A possible way of defining an acceptable use of "you" would be to limit it to the general 'you' - as a synonym for 'one' (where grammatically applicable). From wiktionary:

 

6. (indefinite personal pronoun) Anyone, one; an unspecified individual or group of individuals (as subject or object).

 

That seems like the safest first step.

 

(That would still not allow second-person descriptions, it would just acknowledge there are two different meanings to the word you - and one of them isn't second-person.)

Edited April 27, 2014 by pinkgothic

[Dimar]

I agree that the general "you" should be acceptable; the kinds of edits where we'd replace it with "one". I started becoming more lenient on those instances while I was reviewing, anyway. What I feel is a Reject is when the the description is making the user role-play in a way: this is less common, but I've seen it. Such as a longer, more detailed version of "You walk into the cave and see this dragon. He looks angry and hisses at you, so you decide that it's better to leave."

 

Just for completion's sake: I don't find that odd at all.

I know that's a bad example I used in the post because it sounds fine, but I was having trouble thinking of a better one to show what I meant. >.< Sometimes edits like that do sound weird though.

 

~edit: Ooh, I just found a better example in a description I was reviewing. "Playing Strings is the one pygmy you don't want to leave your spare thread around." In my opinion that would sound worse if reworded. (Playing Strings is the one pygmy that one doesn't want to leave their spare thread around?)

"..the one pygmy that people shouldn't leave their..." would be a better edit but it seems like it takes away a bit from the intended feel.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Dimar

[pinkgothic]

~edit: Ooh, I just found a better example in a description I was reviewing. "Playing Strings is the one pygmy you don't want to leave your spare thread around." In my opinion that would sound worse if reworded. (Playing Strings is the one pygmy that one doesn't want to leave their spare thread around?)

"..the one pygmy that people shouldn't leave their..." would be a better edit but it seems like it takes away a bit from the intended feel.

Still doesn't sound odd to me, though I'd write it as "Playing Strings is the one pygmy that one wouldn't want to leave one's spare thread around". I think I'm just far too used to using 'one' in descriptions and narratives already, so they all feel natural.

 

I wouldn't worry about it; I'm sure others feel differently. (Even if they didn't, I'd still not support a de-facto ban on the word 'you'. I think that decision can and ought to be independent.)

[Shelybear]

I think the descriptions use "you" in dialogs are acceptable.

For example, I described a dragon using narration and in that story, another related dragon appeared and said:"You should go west to find the answer." This you is acceptable from my view.

[Dimar]

I believe it was always fine in dialogue, since those are quotes from characters in the narrative and therefore the only way it would make sense. The issue is where "you" or addressing the reader is used when describing the dragon outside of dialogue, which is generally third-person. That's what was formerly auto-reject or reworded.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Dimar

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm just gonna sidebar this here:

 

Awwww thank you Sock. I am (hopefully) looking for it.<3 Wil the summer holiday be a good time for such things? At least students are free.

 

Well, that depends on mods. A lot more of us are at the point now where we're either entering grad school or full-time jobs and may not have summer holidays. So it depends on the mods who can participate. o.o

 

Since I've tried to shove responsibility of descriptions off myself some, as I believe that's probably what's pushed some mods away, I'm also unsure about organizing anything further. Perhaps if another mod wants to organize a team effort to fight our way out of the backlog. =3

[Dekka]

Can I get my name added to the list?

{ I sign as Dekka }

[Descripforce]

Can I get my name added to the list?

{ I sign as Dekka }

Done. :3

[Dekka]

Done. :3

Thank you

I've been trying to review whenever I can... Hope I can help! ♥

[Syiren]

May I be added to the list? I sign my reviews as Syi.

[Descripforce]

May I be added to the list? I sign my reviews as Syi.

Added. :3

 

*throws more people at the second person discussion*

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

Okay, well since it was asked, here's my two cents on second person.

 

I really don't see anything wrong with second person, and considering that most of the cave text is written in that tense (including many hatchling breed descriptions), I feel that the argument that the rule is there to keep things consistent is invalid. "You" is definitely more informal than "one," but if the entire description is written with informal language and grammar structure, sticking a formal word sounds wrong. For instance This dragon's description has a sentence "Despite this, thanks to years of this elusive eavesdropping, he has learned quite a lot and can tell you anything you might want to know- for a price of course." Changing those two "you"s to "one"s, to me, sounds awkward and changes the entire feel of the sentence.

 

Perhaps that is a bad example as it was obviously a mistake that it was approved with those "you"s in there, but there's my contribution.

Edited April 28, 2014 by HawktalonOfRiverClan

[Syiren]

Added. :3

 

*throws more people at the second person discussion*

Thank you. ^^

 

 

Second person, well, While it doesn't really bother me when I see a description that uses the term, "you" instead of "one" it could be altered a bit if the person has enough room in their description.

 

That being said, it's also easier to qoute any section where the person speaks out to the reviewer/reader. I've seen that work out well when I come across a description where the dragon seems to be speaking about itself using the term "I" or "Me".

[Dirtytabs]

I often accept descriptions with "you" in them, especially when they'd sound better that way or are difficult to reword. I comment something like "you might want to lessen the number of 'yous' " if there are more than one or two. Descriptions with - I don't know what to call it - extensive action on the part of the viewer are rejected. Like:

 

"He's mild-mannered, but you're better off leaving him alone if you find him sleeping, as he dislikes being groggy in front of others." Fine. Doesn't sound terribly good with "one".

 

"You arrive at a forest and see a sleeping dragon, and you think he won't be happy if you wake him." Reject, because it's... like putting words (actions?) in the reader's... mouth... something. I'm not good with words.