Unfreezing

[Syphoneira]

I still don't really understand why this would be needed, but I suppose it couldn't hurt if I never used it. You make your decisions and you should be forced to stick with them -- otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

It used to be that we couldn't ever change names - now we can.

 

Times change and more decisions based on different circumstances become possible...

[LibbyLishly]

Just to come up with a draft for how it might work:

 

- Standard action on frozen hatchling's pages

- Unfrozen things can't be traded

- Can only be used once per month

- Unfrozen things are reset to 7 days to raise

- Can't be used on things that have been frozen for less than a year

 

Usable Unfreeze

- Unfreeze: Allows this dragon to age again. Unfrozen dragons cannot be traded.

 

Can't be used due to cooldown:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen because you have already unfrozen one dragon this month.

 

Can't be used due to age:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen until (date when born + 1 year).

 

Success message:

- You cast a powerful counter-spell on (NAME), allowing it to start aging again. It appears exhausted from the process, and sticks close to you as if seeking protection.

I personally think this is pretty much perfect. Adding a link to this post into the top post.

[olympe]

Since "date when born" for dragons might be ambiguous, I'd suggest using "hatching date". This would still give a small penalty to players who froze holiday dragons in order to make room by making sure they don't breed them the first season after the freezing. (That is, if the unfrozen dragon gets its timer reset to 10 days left.) Plus, the scroll space needed (during the holiday event, no less!) would be a pretty hard drawback. (Unless the player decided to just unfreeze a little later during the year.)

[HeatherMarie]

I feel the main thing driving the desire to unfreeze is the lift of the holiday limit (and/or discontinued dragons). Sorry, that's just not good enough for me. You already have many valuable CB Dragons I will never and can never have. And I'm ok with that. However, I am not ok how many or most people would never let younger players have a chance at extinct or CB past breeds (not that I think its a good idea either, but I also don't support this), but then think we should turn around and support this idea if it benefits them?? Sorry I think it's super hypocritical.

 

Why would I support you then in some attempt to get even richer than you already are and/or completely destroy the current economy? (I'm not talking about rare Prize and HM prizes which I'm totally cool with. This may not be your "intention", but it certainly a nice side benefit.)

 

Now sprite collectors, I am on your side. You froze all your bright pink babies, went on vacation and now they're gone .... I get that.

 

So the only way I would ever support this is, in addition to all the new suggestions added in the first post, is that 100% these Dragons cannot breed as adults or with adults. I agree with Thuban. Magic has a price and when you've been a kid for hundreds of years, something's gonna go wrong when you suddenly go adult. I'm ok with changing a sprite because that in no way impacts me. I see no reason for a chance for the hatchling to run away if it can't reproduce.

 

If they suddenly COULD reproduce, the repercussions would shatter many things for MANY of us. And to make it even, you would have to give every player at least one CB of every Dragon that's ever existed. Not gonna happen.

 

So you can unfreeze your sprite, but not their Gonads. Because otherwise you unleash strife.

I'm sorry, but your post makes absolutely no sense regarding this suggestion and all the limits that have already been talked about.

 

You sound very bitter about people having things that you don't; That's *not* what this suggestion is about, that's *not* what this suggestion would provide, so that's *not* a real concern here. No one is going to gain dragons they didn't have before; Those dragons are *already on their scroll*. This suggestion is simply allowing those dragons to *grow up*.

 

You are actually completely shooting yourself in the foot by saying that this suggestion would "benefit" players who "don't let" other players get things, and then saying you wouldn't want unfrozen dragons to be breedable. That's completely contradictory.

 

FACT: More CB/holiday/lineaged adults means *more* opportunities to *breed* that dragon. A CB frozen gold cannot make more golds. An adult gold *can*. Why would you want to make unfrozen dragons unbreedable and cut off *ALL* those opportunities for "younger players" to get those bred dragons?

 

I don't even know what you are talking about with having to give everyone a CB. That... makes absolutely no sense with this topic at all.

[KageSora]

I still don't really understand why this would be needed, but I suppose it couldn't hurt if I never used it. You make your decisions and you should be forced to stick with them -- otherwise, what's the point?

Only in a lot of cases--especially in games, but also in reality--you CAN change your decision.

 

Stores have return policies for if you change your mind on a product. If you don't like your name you can legally change it. If you get a tattoo you later regret you can potentially have it removed or cover it up.

 

Life isn't always "one choice, once choice only, no second chances no changing your mind". So why should a game be like that in every single regard?

 

If you have to stick to your decisions, then I say we should remove the renaming feature. Also get rid of expunge--you made the choice to get those zombies, you should be forced to live with it.

[xeyla]

What if one of the drawbacks for using the "unfreezing" is the dragon might decide to go feral? After all, not every dragon would have loved being a hatchling for so long, maybe they harbored ill feelings toward the magi that caused their eternal youth? They might view it as a curse, or something along that line. It could be a small chance, like when you try to abandon a hatchling to the AP.

 

I know there will be lots of people who will go against this, but I figured TJ would want something to balance out the loss to the gain.

[LibbyLishly]

What if one of the drawbacks for using the "unfreezing" is the dragon might decide to go feral? After all, not every dragon would have loved being a hatchling for so long, maybe they harbored ill feelings toward the magi that caused their eternal youth? They might view it as a curse, or something along that line. It could be a small chance, like when you try to abandon a hatchling to the AP.

 

I know there will be lots of people who will go against this, but I figured TJ would want something to balance out the loss to the gain.

That is already among the proposed solutions in the top post - that the unfreeze action would have a success/failure rate with a potential chance of abandonment if it fails.

[xeyla]

I read it as the same as abandoning to the AP, not releasing. Sorry.

[whitebaron]

 

It used to be that we couldn't ever change names - now we can.

 

Times change and more decisions based on different circumstances become possible...

Some people decided to freeze their frills/old pinks before they were retired. Other people never got them, because they were acting under the assumption that they'll be around forever.

 

Now tell me: why is it fair, to give one half the chance to rectify that, and others not?

 

Same for people who build lineages. Some of them DID release their CBs to get nice checkers. Shouldnt they be allowed options too?

 

All in all, I still firmly believe a what's done is done stance for a game is highly beneficial to general user contentness - while some may gripe over what they can never get back, it still was at least their choice. Helping a part of the userbase (and dont delude yourselves - this is only interesting to players with 2+ years playingtime) acquiring something that noone should be able to get.. Thats bound to backfire, if not in game mechanics and trade value, but in feelings and discussions.

Edited January 5, 2014 by whitebaron

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Some people decided to freeze their frills/old pinks before they were retired. Other people never got them, because they were acting under the assumption that they'll be around forever.

 

Now tell me: why is it fair, to give one half the chance to rectify that, and others not?

 

Same for people who build lineages.  Some of them DID release their CBs to get nice checkers. Shouldnt they be allowed options too?

Some of us have campaigned for the return of discontinueds (and for the return of CB Holidays, for that matter), but at the end of the day the artists always say no and that's about all we can do about that.

 

There was also talk of maybe allowing people who released CB Holidays a way of fishing them back, provided they had proof of having owned them, but that would be its own discussion.

 

All that being said, though--not being able to fix everything doesn't mean things shouldn't be fixed for those they can be fixed for. If there's an easy way to make some people happy, why must it be shot down because not everything can be perfect ever?

Edited January 5, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[HeatherMarie]

All that being said, though--not being able to fix everything doesn't mean things shouldn't be fixed for those they can be fixed for. If there's an easy way to make some people happy, why must it be shot down because not everything can be perfect ever?

This has been said more then a few times in this thread, and I think it's something that just isn't "sticking". This is a game. A game with a LOT of users, who play a LOT of different ways. There is no possible way to make *everyone* happy about every aspect of the game. In fact, most Suggestions do *not* affect every single user.

 

The attitude of "We want this and that changed, but it isn't, so you can't have this changed" is rather childish. "If I can't have cake you can't either! Not fair!" It just doesn't make sense. This game has *never* catered to every single player, why should it start now?

 

And why *shouldn't* it introduce a feature that will make a large portion of users happy? That a large portion of users will use?

[Syphoneira]

Some people decided to freeze their frills/old pinks before they were retired. Other people never got them, because they were acting under the assumption that they'll be around forever.

 

Now tell me: why is it fair, to give one half the chance to rectify that, and others not?

 

Same for people who build lineages.  Some of them DID release their CBs to get nice checkers. Shouldnt they be allowed options too?

 

All in all, I still firmly believe a what's done is done stance for a game is highly beneficial to general user contentness - while some may gripe over what they can never get back, it still was at least their choice. Helping a part of the userbase (and dont delude yourselves - this is only interesting to players with 2+ years playingtime) acquiring something that noone should be able to get.. Thats bound to backfire, if not in game mechanics and trade value, but in feelings and discussions.

 

 

Lol, I know, it sucks!

 

I thought that I'd be able to get CB Old Pinks 'later' for far too long, then they vanished, and I had to scramble for a couple more breds, and was lucky to get them.

 

But the CBs I didn't get aren't ON my scroll - while the Frozens that other people have ARE on theirs.

 

So, while nothing can be done about the dragons I didn't get in time, I think that those with dragons on their scrolls, which they wouldn't have Frozen had they realized that someday things would change, should have the opportunity to rectify the situation that could be rectified, since it's only a question of being able to lift an 'eternal childhood' spell off existing dragons already on people's scrolls.

 

 

Why would I grudge someone else something that makes them happy and doesn't adversely affect me, just because my issue in that area can never be dealt with?

 

 

 

If somebody wants to start a thread about getting back Released dragons,, they can certainly do so.

 

This thread is about gaining an ability to lift an 'eternal childhood' spell from dragons.

 

 

You're certainly entitled to your own feelings, but sometimes, progress can be good.

 

Personally, I'm very glad that we can rename dragons, breed rare/rare pairings, pick up more bred Holidays, Teleport safely, and that people can remove Zombies they no longer wish to have - all things that we could never do and now can.

 

I'm so very happy that the AP no longer Blocks the Cave, that we have more 'nursery' slots, and can Influence and Incubate and have all of the the myriad advances that we've made, despite, in some cases, some very stiff opposition from people who have typically come round afterward and are now happy about these things, too.

 

Some of these things, Zombie removal, especially, may have only benefited a relatively small percentage of players - but they caused no harm to anyone else, any more than this dis-spell would.

 

Some people were SO deeply opposed to any ability to re-name dragons, because they felt that people should never make errors or change their minds and should just live with them, forever, or Release their dragons to get rid of the names - but the ability to change names didn't harm them them in any way.

 

Perhaps you'd like to go back to the old days, before we attained all these abilities and choices, but speaking for myself, I like a user-friendly game, and I'm very grateful to TJ for giving us all of these advances and choices, which I and many others much prefer having.

 

And considering all of the alterations made in such areas, I have a hard time understanding why this particular one, which needn't affect any objector at all, is such a sticking point for some.

[Aleoleo]

Just to come up with a draft for how it might work:

 

- Standard action on frozen hatchling's pages

- Unfrozen things can't be traded

- Can only be used once per month

- Unfrozen things are reset to 7 days to raise

- Can't be used on things that have been frozen for less than a year

 

Usable Unfreeze

- Unfreeze: Allows this dragon to age again. Unfrozen dragons cannot be traded.

 

Can't be used due to cooldown:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen because you have already unfrozen one dragon this month.

 

Can't be used due to age:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen until (date when born + 1 year).

 

Success message:

- You cast a powerful counter-spell on (NAME), allowing it to start aging again. It appears exhausted from the process, and sticks close to you as if seeking protection.

Support.

 

As much as I didn't like the idea of unfreezing Holiday CBs, this seems logical in terms of RP and doesn't leave room for abuse.

 

(I wouldn't use it though, even if I do have a few frozen CB Holidays.)

 

And also, I really liked your post Syphoneira. I wish I could express myself like that.

[LibbyLishly]

Top post edited. I've clarified that the chance of abandonment would be to the wilderness (I don't even want to think about the screaming there would be if abandoning to the AP was proposed!), and I've added a section about how an unfreeze action would benefit the cave. Feel free to add to that and I'll throw it up there on the next update. I've also added links to a couple of good responses to the "Live with the consequences of your actions" concerns.

[RainDear]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

Yes, I have seen many changes in the game. I have voted for some, against some, had some performed without being able to voice my opinion.

 

I am against this one. If it goes through, that's fine. I will live with it. It is not "game changing" enough to make me angry.

 

Being against this change does not make me childish, selfish, or any of the other derogatory terms that are being thrown at persons who are against this particular change. It is just one of many proposed changes that I prefer not to see happen. I have that right.

[cyradis4]

Just to come up with a draft for how it might work:

 

- Standard action on frozen hatchling's pages

- Unfrozen things can't be traded

- Can only be used once per month

- Unfrozen things are reset to 7 days to raise

- Can't be used on things that have been frozen for less than a year

 

Usable Unfreeze

- Unfreeze: Allows this dragon to age again. Unfrozen dragons cannot be traded.

 

Can't be used due to cooldown:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen because you have already unfrozen one dragon this month.

 

Can't be used due to age:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen until (date when born + 1 year).

 

Success message:

- You cast a powerful counter-spell on (NAME), allowing it to start aging again. It appears exhausted from the process, and sticks close to you as if seeking protection.

I support, though changing it to the date when FROZEN + 1 year actually makes more sense, RP wise. And I'd change it to "Can only be used once every 31 days" rather than once a month, because that'll make people think htey can use it once in January, once in February, and so on.

 

Changing to the date frozen allows less "abuse". The breeding window is only 1 week long, so even if they were frozen right when it hatched, that would be 2 days into the window. Then, a minimum of 3 days till it can grow, so that means that you're already through 5 days of the Christmas week. So really you're just deferring the holiday cost of raising the hatchie from one year to the next. And you can only do it with one hatchie, anyway.

 

Frankly... There's only one dragon I'd even consider using this on, but hey, it'd make a lot of people happy, and would give more options, and would not affect me in any other way, so why not?

 

Cheers!

C4.

[kooky112]

I am just getting back into the swing of things as of Haloween 2013. There are many holiday dragons I am still missing, mostly the valentines day dragons because I never had any good luck at catching them.

 

But this past Christmas I was very pleased with being able to catch more of the Christmas candycan dragons seeing as I only had one adult, and one hatchling.

 

Both of my originals are CB, and I would love to be able to unfreeze this little man: If you want to post the image, you'll need to get it off the wiki or host it yourself. I'm leaving the view link since this isn't a growing dragon, but if you ever need to post the link to a growing dragon here, just make sure to replace /lineage/ with /view/.

 

He's one of the only dragons in my cave I wish was NOT frozen.

 

There are maybe one or two others on my scroll but having the unfreeze hatchling would definitely benefit a lot of us who froze our hatchlings from way back. I for one think having another CB christmas dragon from this generation would be very beneficial to everyone and give people more of a chance at a second gen, who knows maybe even be able to trade hatchlings with other people for a missing gender, I know that would be real nice.

Edited January 5, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Cyradis4: Good points! Post updated accordingly.

 

@Raindear: You have the right to feel however about anything, of course, but the two main objections left against this seem to be "not everything can be fixed so nothing should be fixed" and "I just don't like it," which doesn't really make for a compelling defense. The earlier objections about limit-avoidance and abuse were more valid, IMO, and those have since been pretty well addressed. So again, you can think what you will of it, but when people come in voicing objections others feel make little sense, of course we're going to reply and try to change your mind. ^^;

[LibbyLishly]

I'd like to bring up another potential sticky wicket that, surprisingly, hasn't come up yet: descriptions.

 

Since a growing hatchling cannot be described, if an 'unfreeze' action were to be used on a described hatchling who was then able to grow up, I can see some concern that the description might be erased.

 

The solution should be simple enough: the hatchling would retain its description, but the description could not be edited while the hatchling was in its locked-to-the-scroll growing time. Once it became an adult, the description could be edited as usual.

 

Thoughts?

[Jazeki]

Just to come up with a draft for how it might work:

 

- Standard action on frozen hatchling's pages

- Unfrozen things can't be traded

- Can only be used once per month

- Unfrozen things are reset to 7 days to raise

- Can't be used on things that have been frozen for less than a year

 

Usable Unfreeze

- Unfreeze: Allows this dragon to age again. Unfrozen dragons cannot be traded.

 

Can't be used due to cooldown:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen because you have already unfrozen one dragon this month.

 

Can't be used due to age:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen until (date when born + 1 year).

 

Success message:

- You cast a powerful counter-spell on (NAME), allowing it to start aging again. It appears exhausted from the process, and sticks close to you as if seeking protection.

If TJ does decide to change his mind and allow for unfreezing, I would very much like for it to go like this.

 

However, I am in the freezing should be permanent boat. I've read through the entirety of both threads so far and I think that freezing should stay as is.

 

True, the parameters have changed as far as the ability to obtain more Christmases (and probably V-days will as well), but it's really a one-sided suggestion that cancels out what users now see as a mistake or a missed opportunity, particularly with the touting of using it to unfreeze old pinks and frills since your unfreezing doesn't magically allow for other users (especially non-forum users without ties to those who use the forum) to also obtain CBs or future gens of these breeds.

 

TL;DR: DC users should have to stand by their actions.

 

EDIT: "You" is generic here.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Jazeki

[HeatherMarie]

I'd like to bring up another potential sticky wicket that, surprisingly, hasn't come up yet: descriptions.

 

Since a growing hatchling cannot be described, if an 'unfreeze' action were to be used on a described hatchling who was then able to grow up, I can see some concern that the description might be erased.

 

The solution should be simple enough: the hatchling would retain its description, but the description could not be edited while the hatchling was in its locked-to-the-scroll growing time. Once it became an adult, the description could be edited as usual.

 

Thoughts?

I don't really see that as much of an issue at all. Frozen dragons can be described. But most of their descriptions will include something about their "eternal youth" state. So it makes sense that when they are unfrozen, that description disappears (maybe with a note telling the user that will happen), and then when the hatchling grows up you can just redo the description as you want.

 

Your suggestion would work fine too, I just don't see why a growing hatchling would have a frozen-related description.

[LibbyLishly]

I don't really see that as much of an issue at all. Frozen dragons can be described. But most of their descriptions will include something about their "eternal youth" state. So it makes sense that when they are unfrozen, that description disappears (maybe with a note telling the user that will happen), and then when the hatchling grows up you can just redo the description as you want.

 

Your suggestion would work fine too, I just don't see why a growing hatchling would have a frozen-related description.

Meh. It mostly matters if there's information that's not related to the frozen state. I can just see a lot of rage along the lines of "All my description said was that she's the assistant interpreter to my clan's primary mage and a ton of stuff about her personality". I don't think it would hurt for the description to have short-term inaccuracy instead of potentially wiping someone's hard work at character- and universe-building.

 

As long as there was a warning, I don't think it would be the end of the world to wipe descriptions; I just hate to see already-approved and processed hard work go completely to waste.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

True, the parameters have changed as far as the ability to obtain more Christmases (and probably V-days will as well), but it's really a one-sided suggestion that cancels out what users now see as a mistake or a missed opportunity, particularly with the touting of using it to unfreeze old pinks and frills since your unfreezing doesn't magically allow for other users (especially non-forum users without ties to those who use the forum) to also obtain CBs or future gens of these breeds.

So, again, the idea that if not everything can be perfect = nothing can be perfect.

 

Should not everyone being able to get rares mean rare x rare breeding should never have been allowed?

 

Does the fact that only some people name their dragons mean adding the ability to change our dragon's names was unfairly one-sided in who it benefited, as it could only be of use to those with named dragons?

 

Was expunge a horrible idea, as it allowed people who knowingly created zombies to then undo something they'd done previously? Could the same be said of the above ability to rename things?

 

I'd say the answer to all of those is "no," and for the same reasons I'd say that people not being able to magically get Old Pinks / Frills is no good reason to disallow those who do have them from being able to unfreeze them.

Edited January 5, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Melisande]

Release their dragons to get rid of the names

I had to do that once... back in 2008 I accidentally named a dragon my Password because I thought I clicked on Freeze dragon rather than Name dragon... heh

 

I personally do not see the need for this change. I can see a lot of people exploiting it and trying to get rares and such that they normally wouldn't have access too.. but my feelings and thoughts on it have already been discussed by others.

 

Even though I don't personally like the idea, and wouldn't use it myself (like expunge or earthquake) I did have an interesting idea for a BSA concept for it ...

 

I don't think there are any dragons in the cave currently who could do it but, if there was a dragon who had a "time" theme... like father time/sands of time/hourglass they could have a BSA allowing them (on a very long ish cd) to turn back the sands of time and unfreeze one hatchling. Something like that might be cool and fit into the rp aspect of the cave dynamics.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Melisande

[LibbyLishly]

I don't think there are any dragons in the cave currently who could do it but, if there was a dragon who had a "time" theme... like father time/sands of time/hourglass they could have a BSA allowing them (on a very long ish cd) to turn back the sands of time and unfreeze one hatchling. Something like that might be cool and fit into the rp aspect of the cave dynamics.

I don't care whether or not it gets a time-related BSA; that sounds like a wicked awesome concept for a dragon. Please make a Dragon Request along those lines. I so want something like that to be a thing. (And if Unfreeze does become implemented as a user-driven action rather than a BSA, there's always the thought that's been running 'round the threads of a youth restoration BSA that could be given to such a dragon.)