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LibbyLishly

Unfreezing

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I can so live with not being able to unfreeze anything more than once a month. What's the rush.

I think the issue they were bringing up wasn't that unfreezing would be limited to once a month, but that healing would be limited to once a month--aka, no using your Whites in the meantime to heal sick things. Unless the heal BSA worked in two completely different ways with different cooldowns for both, which would be very strange. Which is why I think making it an owner-performed action works better than making it a BSA.

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I think making them immediately grow up combined with very strict limits on how many you can unFreeze per year (honestly, for something like this a scroll-wide 31-day cooldown on the action/BSA and having it limited to frozens over ~6 months is probably a large enough deterrent to using it without careful thought) would be enough to balance it without also making the dragons unbreedable.

 

e: And having it as an ordinary action makes more sense to me than tying it to a BSA like Heal.

Edited by Guillotine

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What angelicdragonpuppy said.

/still quietly favoring a once a year event, 5ish max, though the bsa style 12 is fine as well.

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I think an action on the action page would be best, and I like:

 

- 31 day scroll wide cooldown per use (that means you can only unfreeze 11 in any given calendar year)

- Can only be performed on frozen hatchies that are at least 1 year old (timing, smiming, I'm open to other timings)

 

 

Now about the Holidays ("They'll use it to freeze hatchies to clear scroll space!!!!")... If Person A freezies Hatchie A on December 20th, 2014, then the absolute earliest they can unfreeze it is on December 20th, 2015. And that's the ONLY hatchie they can unfreeze that month.

 

So, ok. By doing that, they gain 1 slot. That's IF they even remember to unfreeze the frozen.

 

Personally, I'd never intentionally do that just to free up one measly little slot. It'd just not be worth it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I don't think making un-frozen hatchies unbreedable is necessary, nor is it something I would particularly support if unfreezing became possible.

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Have to agree with Sock here. A sterile adult is about as useful as a frozen hatchling - or a GoN, for that matter. Nice, but no good for anything but being looked at.

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I think what Syphoneira posted is pretty reasonable. My only concern is having it tied to the Heal bsa, which seems like it would limit that bsa to once a month?

 

 

Doesn't have to be Whites.

 

I'm using the Whites as an example, because the Heal would work well for both, but if it's too hard to code the Heal spell to function for two different forms of healing depending whether the growing dragon was Sick or bespelled, another dragon with magic would work.

 

However, I was assuming that since we've nearly always got by with Fogging Sick dragons that the Heal for Sick eggs/hatchies would most likely be most often used by newer people who wouldn't have dragons Frozen from (in my scenario) a year or more previous, while people around long enough to have Frozen dragons from previous years could likely get by with continuing to Fog Sick dragons during this period, especially since those using it to unFreeze 1 each of several Holidays from Christmas and Valentines (assuming the limits would also be off for these, as would seem logical) would only need to use it a set number of times and could, at a rate of once a month use, easily have these dis-spelled within under a year.

 

Those who chose to unFreeze other dragons than Holidays would take longer, of course, but I figured that those set on some 'penalty' being imposed could maybe run with a potential inability to use Heal (if and whenever it came out, in a scenario where it was used for both spells, depending on whether a hatchy was Sick or Frozen, but) where Healing of Sickness was also coded on a month-long cool-down following use on Frozens.

 

 

Edit: lol, forgot about the scroll action suggestion, which sounds great to me!

 

But I really don't think that any damage or drawbacks, whether death, sterility, or a sickly constitution, would be necessary or desirable.

 

 

 

 

Lol, if magic is supposed to have the ill effect of producing infertility, as was suggested by someone, what about Fertility spells? xd.png

Edited by Syphoneira

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I would love a one-time exception to the rule that freezing is permanent, to allow those of us who froze a cb holiday (expecting that we would never be able to have additional adults or hatchlings) to un-freeze them. However, other than that one specific instance I don't support making freezing non-permanent.

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Making unfrozens unbreedable is a bit ehhh (Unnecessary?)

Edited by DarkEternity

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I would love a one-time exception to the rule that freezing is permanent, to allow those of us who froze a cb holiday (expecting that we would never be able to have additional adults or hatchlings) to un-freeze them. However, other than that one specific instance I don't support making freezing non-permanent.

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE (TJ09 @ Jan 2 2014, 09:59 PM)

For what it's worth, I'm mostly indifferent on this as long as it can't be "abused" (i.e. used to obtain adults faster than raising them normally) and generally behaves in an intuitive manner.

 

I'm thus not quite sold on the idea of unfrozen adults taking up an egg slot as compensation. It makes sense in theory, but I don't buy the RP reasoning, and it's definitely not visible to people (it's not clear from looking at your scroll that you actually have six slots used even though you have five eggs)--just like the 24-hour deathlock that the idea was based on, which already causes its fair share of confusion.

 

 

 

The thread discussing a one-time spell-lifting option was closed, so we're casting around for alternative (and, I would strongly suggest, non-complex) solutions, so that TJ can consider whether they're feasible.

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I was thinking of Heal in light of the spate of view bombing, where people kept putting others scrolls into ERs to try to kill the eggs. Granted, I think that was at it's worst during the metal flood with people being vindictive after missing rares. But I know people wanted heal to help deal with that, since sometimes fogging wouldn't save it. That's been awhile so I'm not sure if it's died down now.

(just 'splaining why the concern over the once a month)

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I was thinking of Heal in light of the spate of view bombing, where people kept putting others scrolls into ERs to try to kill the eggs. Granted, I think that was at it's worst during the metal flood with people being vindictive after missing rares. But I know people wanted heal to help deal with that, since sometimes fogging wouldn't save it. That's been awhile so I'm not sure if it's died down now.

(just 'splaining why the concern over the once a month)

 

 

 

Good point!

 

Not everyone is lucky enough to catch a Viewbombing early on...

 

 

A site function would work well, though, if TJ is agreeable, since it's very true that if the owner put a spell on, they should be able to take it off.

 

My concern that the dis-spelling be simple and cheat-proof as possible - this also making it more likely to be accepted - seems to have been crowding out other information I've just read...

 

 

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I don't think being able to unfreeze is a bad idea. It can be useful when trading for different things and so on.

 

Personally, I still wish we could freeze eggs. There are some eggs I just love to death. and then they hatch...

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I feel the main thing driving the desire to unfreeze is the lift of the holiday limit (and/or discontinued dragons). Sorry, that's just not good enough for me. You already have many valuable CB Dragons I will never and can never have. And I'm ok with that. However, I am not ok how many or most people would never let younger players have a chance at extinct or CB past breeds (not that I think its a good idea either, but I also don't support this), but then think we should turn around and support this idea if it benefits them?? Sorry I think it's super hypocritical.

 

Why would I support you then in some attempt to get even richer than you already are and/or completely destroy the current economy? (I'm not talking about rare Prize and HM prizes which I'm totally cool with. This may not be your "intention", but it certainly a nice side benefit.)

 

Now sprite collectors, I am on your side. You froze all your bright pink babies, went on vacation and now they're gone .... I get that.

 

So the only way I would ever support this is, in addition to all the new suggestions added in the first post, is that 100% these Dragons cannot breed as adults or with adults. I agree with Thuban. Magic has a price and when you've been a kid for hundreds of years, something's gonna go wrong when you suddenly go adult. I'm ok with changing a sprite because that in no way impacts me. I see no reason for a chance for the hatchling to run away if it can't reproduce.

 

If they suddenly COULD reproduce, the repercussions would shatter many things for MANY of us. And to make it even, you would have to give every player at least one CB of every Dragon that's ever existed. Not gonna happen.

 

So you can unfreeze your sprite, but not their Gonads. Because otherwise you unleash strife.

Edited by natayah

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I feel the main thing driving the desire to unfreeze is the lift of the holiday limit (and/or discontinued dragons). Sorry, that's just not good enough for me. You already have many valuable CB Dragons I will never and can never have. And I'm ok with that. However, I am not ok how many or most people would never let younger players have a chance at extinct or CB past breeds (not that I think its a good idea either, but I also don't support this), but then think we should turn around and support this idea if it benefits them?? Sorry I think it's super hypocritical.

 

Why would I support you then in some attempt to get even richer than you already are and/or completely destroy the current economy?  (I'm not talking about rare Prize and HM prizes which I'm totally cool with. This may not be your "intention", but it certainly a nice side benefit.)

 

Now sprite collectors, I am on your side. You froze all your bright pink babies, went on vacation and now they're gone .... I get that.

 

So the only way I would ever support this is, in addition to all the new suggestions added in the first post, is that 100% these Dragons cannot breed as adults or with adults. I agree with Thuban. Magic has a price and when you've been a kid for hundreds of years, something's gonna go wrong when you suddenly go adult. I'm ok with changing a sprite because that in no way impacts me. I see no reason for a chance for the hatchling to run away if it can't reproduce.

 

If they suddenly COULD reproduce,  the repercussions would shatter many things for MANY of us. And to make it even, you would have to give every player at least one CB of every Dragon that's ever existed. Not gonna happen.

 

So you can unfreeze your sprite, but not their Gonads. Because otherwise you unleash strife.

This doesn't actually make sense to me. If a player has a valuable frozen CB - let's say it's a Yulebuck for the sake of argument - then they would have had that as an adult had they not frozen it. In other words, they caught it fair and square back in the day, and there are plenty of players who already have those as adults. It seems to me that it would actually be more desirable to the entire player base, especially those who have more recently joined, to have those CBs available for breeding. I know I'll never get a CB Yulebuck, but I like to collect the 2nd gens. More users with those CB Yulebucks available to breed is something I'd very much like. Plenty of lineage collectors (me again) will never have a CB Frill or Old Pink, or even a messy member of those breeds at all, but I like checker lines that have them in the base.

 

If it were definite that every player who had one of the older lines would immediately charge exorbitant prices for the offspring of their CBs, I'd understand your concern. But so many players who do already have those CBs as adults cheerfully breed their offspring for free, because they know newcomers will never have a shot at having them. Therefore, I don't think that allowing unfreezing, especially with the heavily-discussed limitations laid out in the first post, will affect the DC market at all.

 

I just don't understand why giving every player a CB of every breed would suddenly be the only way to make the game fair. It's not as if the players are suddenly able to catch these dragons; they've already caught them. The only change is that they'll be able to finally let them grow up and share the wealth.

 

(Incidentally, I am also all for letting 'younger players' have a chance to get CBs of past holidays or discontinued breeds, but I'm slightly biased because I've only been playing since 2011. rolleyes.gif But that's another discussion thread entirely.)

 

Edits for grammar, as usual.

Edited by LibbyLishly

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Why would I support you then in some attempt to get even richer than you already are and/or completely destroy the current economy? (I'm not talking about rare Prize and HM prizes which I'm totally cool with. This may not be your "intention", but it certainly a nice side benefit.)

Unfreezing would hardly make anyone much richer. It definitely wouldn't shatter the trade market. For sake of ease, I'll just list what the most common unfreezies will probably be:

 

- CB Holidays: Which would breed 2g Holidays. On top of these already not trading for a heck of a lot, many people gift them for free. And on top of that, every single one bred usually suggests 2-3 more are showering in the AP. So unfreezing them would help spread the number of 2gs, not make them less obtainable.

 

- Frills / Old Pinks: Offspring of these are worth even less than 2g Holidays to most, because they can't breed true. On top of that, I know at least one thread in the forums that lists people with CBs of these who will breed offspring from them for free. Again, hardly "destroying the economy."

 

- Low gen Metals: At best this would allow people to unfreeze CB Metals, which means they could then have a couple more attempts at breeding 2g Metals. 2g Metals are valuable, sure, but they're a far ways away from being the top end of the economy. Don't see this breaking the market either.

 

Also, you have to keep in mind: not everyone freezes. Of those who do freeze, plenty haven't frozen the things in question. So on top of me being skeptical that any of these things could hurt the trade market even in the largest of doses, there probably won't be a whole lot of trading stock being added in the first place.

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I don't see why you would need ot unfreeze something you froze in the first place, especially since we can just grab more winter holiday dragons? Keep it as it is; unneeded, if you aren't certain about freezing, then don't.

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I don't see why you would need ot unfreeze something you froze in the first place, especially since we can just grab more winter holiday dragons? Keep it as it is; unneeded, if you aren't certain about freezing, then don't.

 

 

 

Hi, Ashes!

 

This is about dragons frozen over the years in the past, when there was no chance of ever having more than two of any Christmas sprite, and a response to altered circumstance.

 

People now have the option of getting more the year after Release, which they never have before.

 

And any spell placed can potentially be lifted.

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Hi, Ashes!

 

This is about dragons frozen over the years in the past, when there was no chance of ever having more than two of any Christmas sprite, and a response to altered circumstance.

 

People now have the option of getting more the year after Release, which they never have before.

 

And any spell placed can potentially be lifted.

But... again, why is that needed? If you have your two, you can have a frozen and have multiple adults...

 

I don't get it. You can have your cake and eat it too, so you can't justify this.

 

edit; and you apply this to a certain dragon (balloons, for example), what if people don't collect balloons? I know I don't -- I don't like their art and it badly needs a revamp -- what am I to do? suck it up in favor of a potentially useless BSA that doesn't have any justifiable worth?

Edited by Ashes The Second

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But... again, why is that needed? If you have your two, you can have a frozen and have multiple adults...

 

I don't get it. You can have your cake and eat it too, so you can't justify this.

 

edit; and you apply this to a certain dragon (balloons, for example), what if people don't collect balloons? I know I don't -- I don't like their art and it badly needs a revamp -- what am I to do? suck it up in favor of a potentially useless BSA that doesn't have any justifiable worth?

Because you can't ever get CB Holidays again. Or Frills, or Old Pinks. Others have even expressed issues with getting things they can get again that have just become rarer over time, which made them regret having frozen one to begin with.

 

I'd say changing opinions is enough to justify it. We got things like allowing dragons to be renamed and being able to expunge zombies, both of which reflect changing opinions, so why not this? Plus, in the case of CB Holidays and discontinueds, the game's circumstances have changed, further justifying it. I certainly didn't regret freezing a Holiday when I was only allowed two, but now the game has changed and I do have a reason to regret it.

 

Would it help everyone? No, but neither do things like earthquake, expunge, and to a lesser extent even teleport, so clearly that's not a huge issue. It's not giving anyone anything they didn't already have, and as I said a few posts ago, it wouldn't hurt the trade market or "let the rich get richer." So why not?

 

I have no idea what you're trying to say with the balloon example.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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However, I am not ok how many or most people would never let younger players have a chance at extinct or CB past breeds (not that I think its a good idea either, but I also don't support this), but then think we should turn around and support this idea if it benefits them?? Sorry I think it's super hypocritical.

Just wondering, but how is it hypocritical to be opposed to the mass generation of brand-new things, while being alright with changing the status of actual, existing things?

 

(Though not everybody who's in favor of this IS actually opposed to re-releasing past CB event dragons.)

 

I don't see why you would need ot unfreeze something you froze in the first place, especially since we can just grab more winter holiday dragons? Keep it as it is; unneeded, if you aren't certain about freezing, then don't.

Because I can't have two lovely adults with the "caught on" date matching their release AND have the maximum number of possible sprites on my scroll. ;_;

 

Well, now I can since I can just breed more next year to freeze. But not with the older ones. And I really like having the adults with the caught/stolen dates matching the release dates.

 

I made a hard decision within the rules I was forced to work with. That same decision is why I still haven't tried for a second GoN--can't decide if I want two of that awesome adult or if I want one of the hatchies. It's why, at the time, I agonized over if I ever managed to get a second Holly if I would let it mature or freeze it.

 

But now that decision isn't one that needs to be made. I can have my adults with their special (to me) date and I can get my sprite collection later. I'd just like to be able to have my adults with the date for the older breeds...

 

 

Re: Balloon example:

 

...Honestly, I don't see how that's anymore unfair than incubate and teleport and influence. I mean what if somebody hates reds/magis/pinks? They're forced to collect them if they want the sprites. Or even Summon--what if they hate one or more of the Trios but love the GoN? (though I suppose they could release them after...) Or, honestly, how it's anymore unfair than ANY BSA.

 

But, personally, I'm in favor of it being an action on each frozen dragon's page, NOT being a BSA.

Edited by KageSora

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So Libby told me to check this thread out with my solution to this quandry, as well as various gripes about what to do with GoN.

 

Rather than just pasting over my stuff, I figure it's better to link to the thread, so people can already see the existing debate over it and we don't recycle points already said on the original. Feel free to just respond to it here... or there... or both. Probably this one since this is a more main stream thread.

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I still don't really understand why this would be needed, but I suppose it couldn't hurt if I never used it. You make your decisions and you should be forced to stick with them -- otherwise, what's the point?

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I still don't really understand why this would be needed, but I suppose it couldn't hurt if I never used it. You make your decisions and you should be forced to stick with them -- otherwise, what's the point?

Because those decisions were made under the duress of an existing rule that was never foreseen to be lifted. The paradigm of the game has changed, and people now regret decisions they had no way to foreseeably consider wrong before.

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Just to come up with a draft for how it might work:

 

- Standard action on frozen hatchling's pages

- Unfrozen things can't be traded

- Can only be used once per month

- Unfrozen things are reset to 7 days to raise

- Can't be used on things that have been frozen for less than a year

 

Usable Unfreeze

- Unfreeze: Allows this dragon to age again. Unfrozen dragons cannot be traded.

 

Can't be used due to cooldown:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen because you can only unfreeze one dragon every 31 days. (or "You can't unfreeze this dragon because you have used this action recently. Please wait x days."?)

 

Can't be used due to age:

- Unfreeze: This dragon can't be unfrozen until (date when frozen + 1 year).

 

Success message:

- You cast a powerful counter-spell on (NAME), allowing it to start aging again. It appears exhausted from the process, and sticks close to you as if seeking protection.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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