Unfreezing

[Guillotine]

Absolutely not. A long cooldown or a low cap is all that is needed to keep unfreezing reasonable. Making them one-times on even uncommons, let alone RARES, would be intolerable. Even commons would be annoying, because you'd have the entire active userbase wanting to have at least one active just in case which would make them quite annoying to get.

[DoodleNoodle]

Absolutely not. A long cooldown or a low cap is all that is needed to keep unfreezing reasonable. Making them one-times on even uncommons, let alone RARES, would be intolerable. Even commons would be annoying, because you'd have the entire active userbase wanting to have at least one active just in case which would make them quite annoying to get.

I agree with this.

[Alrexwolf]

Instead of running around trying to make compromises, why not make it so that an unfrozen hatchling does the following:

 

1. Goes back to needing 7 days to grow up - or perhaps even more, as if it was stunned.

 

2. If you are at your dragon limit, the hatchling runs away. You might say, that's a horrible idea! People will lose their dragons they've had for ages to mistakes! While that may be true, we don't have a safety net in place for other things such as breeding where eggs are lost automatically. I don't see what would make this any more extreme; just add warnings.

 

3. Make it so that the scroll has 1 per 7 day period and does not stack, so they have to wait for the 1 hatchling they unfroze to grow up before unfreezing another.

 

4. Make it so unfreezing also takes a freezing point away.

 

 

Alternatively;

Give players the 3-5 freezing points that work for both unfreezing and freezing, but only give them 3-5 points in a certain time period to do both. If they unfreeze hatchlings to try to get around limits, have them take a slot up for 4+ days. This way, if someone theoretically wanted to use it to get around the egg/hatchling slot issue, they would be taking points away from this pool to freeze and unfreeze as well.

[silver_tiger]

Absolutely not. A long cooldown or a low cap is all that is needed to keep unfreezing reasonable. Making them one-times on even uncommons, let alone RARES, would be intolerable. Even commons would be annoying, because you'd have the entire active userbase wanting to have at least one active just in case which would make them quite annoying to get.

Also that would make it so that people who only collect a small number of adults of each dragon (like one or two...) would only be able to ever get one or two unfreezes. If we're going to do this I would prefer a long cooldown or a hard limit.

 

I no longer have any pressing need to have anything unfrozen, but it would be nice to have the ability should my hand slip again.

[LibbyLishly]

I finally found it! For some reason this thread was not showing up in my search results.

 

I haven't updated the OP since 2014 but I'll glance through the last 20 pages of this impossible circular discussion for any new thoughts that I can add in and also will add a link to a more recent unfreeze idea that I really love.

[olympe]

Considering that there are no otherwise unavailable kinds of hatchlings any more, a scroll-lock wouldn't really be necessary IMHO. Sure, some things will need some time to come back, but both formerly discontinued breeds are back now, and even CB holidays are available (during their respective breeding period) by now, so I don't think we need an unfrozen hatchling to turn into an instant adult, nor do these hatchlings need to be scroll-locked. Seriously, this could even help with saving up for certain trades...

 

But there needs to be one big no-go IMHO: Undead hatchlings. Because making them doesn't necessarily cost a kill slot, I think that undead hatchlings (which are naturally frozen) should not be available for unfreezing. And, of course, leetle trees. (Although I'd love to see my leetle tree grow into a big tree...)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm still for instant adulthood because I think people being able to stock up on CB rares for future trades would be a bad thing. There's a small handful of players who always seem to have CB Metals--I'd hate to see them suddenly be able to hoard any they don't trade for later and give them all that much more power to get the best trades. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

48 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I'm still for instant adulthood because I think people being able to stock up on CB rares for future trades would be a bad thing. There's a small handful of players who always seem to have CB Metals--I'd hate to see them suddenly be able to hoard any they don't trade for later and give them all that much more power to get the best trades. 

That would be my one concern.

Of course, if possible, a compromise could be made that previously frozen things cant be traded?

[LibbyLishly]

All right, y'all, the OP has been edited - I've put in alternate limitations proposed by ADP and a compromise proposed by PF13, as well as a quick bit in the "concerns" section regarding elitism. Those who have been following this for the past 3 (goodness gracious) years: let me know if you think anything else should be adjusted up there. I think there was a thread merge at some point that confused me for a bit.

 

@olympe Personally I don't care about the trading or the zombie aspects, but I feel like making the hatchlings tradeable is opening a loophole we were told to close. Good point on the zombies but not big enough of a deal (yet) to add to the OP.

 

 

 

Other notes: 

I will NOT be adding any suggestions to make this a BSA to the OP, as I feel that is needlessly complicated and don't like it. If someone makes a new dragon with that BSA attached, okeedokee, but I'm not going to advocate for it.

 

I do NOT support a fail rate of any kind.

 

I also find it needlessly complicated to have unfreezing affect your freezing slots, as the limitations are different, and honestly would prefer to just see the unfrozen instantly grow up and not take up a hatchling slot. If the consensus goes that way, I'll edit it in, but right now it just seems unnecessary to me.

[Starscream]

Instant adult, And a large cooldown and a possible failure (maybe not as often as vampire repulse/death fail) and you can repeat the BSA on the hatchling after a cool-down period.

[Whirlaway]

I think it should be permanent, as one knows the risk they are taking by freezing hatchlings and it should stay that way. But that's just my opinion. Even if there are Fire Gems I would unfreeze if I had the chance, it should stay as permanent.

[Dragon_Arbock]

2 hours ago, Condorflight said:

I think it should be permanent, as one knows the risk they are taking by freezing hatchlings and it should stay that way. But that's just my opinion. Even if there are Fire Gems I would unfreeze if I had the chance, it should stay as permanent.

 

I'd like to say that no, most of us who froze CB holidays didn't 'know the risk' because there was no risk back then. We could only get two of a the breed ever. Didn't matter if they were CB or lineaged. So we froze CBs because that's what we had for our collection. Fast-forward to 2013 and we'd shot ourselves in the foot cause the rules changed on us.

Even if not talking about CBs, people make mistakes. Heck, even if you kill a hatchling or a dragon you have a chance to revive it- so why not a chance to unfreeze?

[olympe]

Well, naming used to be permanent, too... People knew the risks. And yet, the petition to allow for re-/unnaming got through somehow.  So, why not allow for unfreezing, too? (Not to mention that there were some rule changes that affect some of the rarest CB - the holidays.)

[maratrekkan]

Personally I am okay with people being able to somehow unfreeze their hatchlings they froze. I think some well thought out precautions will prevent abuse. 

 

Hatchling Option

I am for a hatchling slot having to be available to use unfreeze.

I am for the hatchling at a minimum starting over it’s growth process. 

I think to prevent trading abuse unfrozen hatchlings should be nontransferable.... if this is not easy to do game wise than...

Instant Adult

If we go with this the adult should be blocked from breeding or using any BSA for a good long while. I think the number of days a hatchling to grow + the breeding cool down and BSA only becomes available after this combined no use time expires. 

Potential For Failure

This is an interesting idea suggested in one of the above posts. I would treat it as multiple potentials though, no effect hatchling stays frozen try again if you want, hatchling unfreezes & runs away becoming a wild dragon, hatchling unfreezes & stays, hatchling dies.

Auto Option versus BSA

Mostly I think people want unfreeze to be like freeze a basic game option, but I would love to see it as a BSA option on an older dragon breed, naturally there would be a long cool off for this BSA after use too. (With or with out the risk potential failure I just think as a BSA this would be a cool way to add value to a breed). I am thinking the Black or Mint for instance, or even the once despised Frill. 

 

For the record I only freeze hatchlings that will not work with my current breeding plans and so I have 2 frozen rather easily available dragons. It is just logical to me that the option exist for players with some reasonable precautions I think abuse can be avoided.

 

 

[Ruby Eyes]

No to death or running-away.

[Guillotine]

More importantly... Why would death or running away be an effect of unfreezing? It's not like the dragon is in cryostasis when it's frozen, the spell just halts the dragon's growth (so it's "frozen in time", y'dig?). Presumably "in-world" the dragon has asked for the spell to be lifted or (for Drakes) otherwise indicated it wants to grow up. There's no reason for it, and given that freezing has no failure states it makes no sense for unfreezing to have such severe ones.
 

[LibbyLishly]

3 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

More importantly... Why would death or running away be an effect of unfreezing? It's not like the dragon is in cryostasis when it's frozen, the spell just halts the dragon's growth (so it's "frozen in time", y'dig?). Presumably "in-world" the dragon has asked for the spell to be lifted or (for Drakes) otherwise indicated it wants to grow up. There's no reason for it, and given that freezing has no failure states it makes no sense for unfreezing to have such severe ones.
 

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Starscream]

As for a failure, I would say no to death or running away, but the longer the dragon has been frozen, the more difficult it is for it to unfreeze successfully.

[Guillotine]

Yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea of unfreezing having a failure, particularly if the BSA idea is chased, but that failure should be pretty minor, like the hatchling stays frozen for [cooldown].

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Guillotine

[LibbyLishly]

If there is a failure rate (which I personally still don't see any real point to), I'd like it to be possible to try again after a cooldown.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If freezing doesn’t have a fail chance, why should unfreezing? Presumably giving eternal youth should be a lot more complex than taking it away, hehe.

 

I’d rather just see a long cool down before something could be unfrozen.

[HeatherMarie]

I wouldn't mind a fail rate, but I don't understand why it would be needed. Unfreezing is nothing more then reversing an action we already have, an action which has no fail-rate at all. If Freezing can't fail, why on earth would Unfreezing fail? It's the same basic concept, just in reverse. 

 

I support unfreezing after the hatchie has been frozen for a certain amount of time, unfrozen hatchie instantly becomes adult, and possibly some sort of cooldown after using unfreeze. I do *not* support any possibility of the hatchie dying or running away, as that is really completely unneeded given all the other possible limitations.

[Ponystar17]

I'm neutral on the argument since I respect what the people on both sides are saying and don't have any strong feelings on the subject myself, but a sub-suggestion I don't think anyone's made: if unfreezing were implemented, what if a hatchling could only be unfrozen on the anniversary of its freezing?  The best way of handling this with abuse-prevention mechanisms would probably be to have it unfreeze as an untradeable 7d hatchling, but put no scroll-wide cooldown on the action.  With this, there would be very little value in freezing to make space at the holidays since you'd be borrowing space from whatever future year you unfroze them, but people would easily be able to rectify past mistakes (within the limit of their scroll limits).  Personally, I think it helps a little with the whole problem of freezing being usually a permanent thing (if you want to unfreeze something, you have to plan and remember), and it could potentially be a neat lore thing (magic spells often have arbitrary rules like that).

 

Feel free to shoot down the idea, lol.  I can't say I've spent a long time thinking about it, but I thought it might help with a compromise between people who want to make people with frozen CBs happy and people who want there to be an element of risk and permanency in the game.

[LibbyLishly]

@Ponystar17 I think the idea does make things a little more complicated, just by virtue of adding another rule to the action, but I find it rather poetic and I like it.

[HeatherMarie]

The problem with that is, how will anyone know what the anniversary of the hatchie-freezing is? It's not recorded anywhere on the scroll or view page, and it only stays in the Action Log for 30 days. I don't even know if the actual freeze-date is kept in the database anywhere at all, and it's very possible that very old frozen hatchies simply don't have that data saved anywhere at all. Anyone who froze hatchies long ago and don't remember the exact date of the freezing are just out of luck then? I don't like that suggestion very much, since most of the reason people want this is regretting long-ago freezes. If we can't unfreeze long-ago frozens because we don't have access to the exact date of the freeze, it's fairly useless.