Jump to content
LibbyLishly

Unfreezing

Recommended Posts

Related idea:

 

Curious, would we need freeze (and unfreeze(-and-become-an-adult-immediately)) limits at all if hatchlings would still count toward one's creature limit until they would have grown to an adult? (I suspect this sort of idea might be shot down because it might be difficult to make this intuitively understandable on-site, but ignoring that for a moment...?)

Edited by pinkgothic

Share this post


Link to post

But everyone who is in any way saying that this COULD be done is agreed that an unfrozen hatchling would grow up AT ONCE, and also that you could NOT get around it by having 500 BSA dragons (if it went that way) as you'd only be able to do it at all, say once a month per SCROLL, MAX.

 

Like the limit on summoning - you can only do it once in two weeks, however many legendary trios you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Related idea:

 

Curious, would we need freeze (and unfreeze(-and-become-an-adult-immediately)) limits at all if hatchlings would still count toward one's creature limit until they would have grown to an adult? (I suspect this sort of idea might be shot down because it might be difficult to make this intuitively understandable on-site, but ignoring that for a moment...?)

Are you talking about implementing this(they count for your limit until they would have grown up) for just unfreezing, or for freezing too? It sounds an awful lot like the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
But everyone who is in any way saying that this COULD be done is agreed that an unfrozen hatchling would grow up AT ONCE, and also that you could NOT get around it by having 500 BSA dragons (if it went that way) as you'd only be able to do it at all, say once a month per SCROLL, MAX.

 

Like the limit on summoning - you can only do it once in two weeks, however many legendary trios you have.

Running with the Summoning comparison with its scroll-wide cooldown: If the unfreeze action were a BSA, and if there were a chance of failure, the number of the BSA dragons that you had could affect those chances, just like the number of trios you have could affect your chances of a successful summon.

 

This may or may not be the best plan; just brainstorming a bit.

 

(Marie19R and angelicdragonpuppy, you guys said everything I was thinking. Merci beaucoup. biggrin.gif )

Share this post


Link to post
Are you talking about implementing this(they count for your limit until they would have grown up) for just unfreezing, or for freezing too? It sounds an awful lot like the latter.

I'm not talking about implementing anything, it's just a thought that occurred to me - but to answer what I think is the underlying question, yes, it pertains to both.

 

Basically, I'm wondering whether changing that would help a lot of the problems we seem to have with both actions (needing to limit freezing to a certain amount of slots and not being able to unfreeze because it's a way to get around the scroll limits, mostly). I genuinely don't know, though, which is why I've thrown it into the thread as a question.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not talking about implementing anything, it's just a thought that occurred to me - but to answer what I think is the underlying question, yes, it pertains to both.

 

Basically, I'm wondering whether changing that would help a lot of the problems we seem to have with both actions (needing to limit freezing to a certain amount of slots and not being able to unfreeze because it's a way to get around the scroll limits, mostly). I genuinely don't know, though, which is why I've thrown it into the thread as a question.

The thing is, is that I would rather not have unfreezing at all, and/or stick to our current limits, than have to stick with all frozen hatchlings for however long is necessary for them to grow up. A 24 hour limit/combination of the two(think max 24 hours, less if it takes less time to grow up), like killing, is liveable, though still undesirable.

 

I just don't see why freezing should be worse to the system than killing. It should either have no penalty, or the same.

Edited by Nectaris

Share this post


Link to post
My opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

I'm against this. Sometimes, whether in RL or in a game, we have to take consequences and responsibility for our actions. Many suggestions and suggested BSAs seem to be aimed at removing consequences and responsibility and allow us to undo bad/unfortunate choices. Even in the fantasy world of a game we should have to live with our mistakes and find ways to manage without an "undo" button for every possible regrettable action.

This.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, Nectaris, but I have to disagree. If you unfreeze, you gain another adult. If you kill, you gain nothing but cracked shells/a tombstone.

 

Also, by freezing, you regain a hatchling slot for the time it would have taken your hatchling to grow up. That might be anything between a second and 3 full days.

 

That's why I feel that the fairest option is to return the hatchling to the time it had before being frozen. Or, to make it an actual penalty (if the fairest option isn't feasible), return the hatchling to its full 7 days, which means it would need the full 3 days to grow up.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, Nectaris, but I have to disagree. If you unfreeze, you gain another adult. If you kill, you gain nothing but cracked shells/a tombstone.

 

Also, by freezing, you regain a hatchling slot for the time it would have taken your hatchling to grow up. That might be anything between a second and 3 full days.

 

That's why I feel that the fairest option is to return the hatchling to the time it had before being frozen. Or, to make it an actual penalty (if the fairest option isn't feasible), return the hatchling to its full 7 days, which means it would need the full 3 days to grow up.

I am only talking about their suggestion to apply this to ALL freezing, whether or not you ever intend to unfreeze. If you unfreeze, sure, add a penalty, but don't penalize everyone everytime they freeze on the ASSUMPTION that they might unfreeze at some later point in time. ESPECIALLY if you already tack on the 6 month wait time.

 

Just another idea to curb freezing to unfreeze later, maybe make it where if it doesn't have enough views to grow, it insta-DIES. That way you curb those who freeze things the moment they hatch to get more. The RP for that would be that with the magic sustaining them gone, and they lack the development to grow, they pass away.

Edited by Nectaris

Share this post


Link to post

Ah, I should learn to read. Somehow, I missed that bit. xd.png

 

And you're right, these penalties shouldn't be implemented for Freezing. If only for the fact that the thousands of hatchlings that have been frozen in the past didn't have it, and unfreezing them would still give their owners some way to cheat scroll limits unless the penalty is inflicted upon unfreezing.

Share this post


Link to post

I do, however miss the days when our frozen hatchlings would still gender after freezing. I know a lot of people were upset when their frozens would gender after they specifically froze them as S1, but, as I am not a sprite collector, as much as a "freeze it so I can unlock myself to hunt again" collector, most of my freezes remain S1.

I don't. I am a sprite collector / hatchling collector so for me it was one of the happiest days on DC for me because I was able to keep the cute S1 hatchies that before would still grow up eventually.

 

On this topic... when you freeze a hatchling it is an irreversible action like killing or releasing, making you enter your pw or the action. One should freeze because they want to freeze and not just because they "need to make space" or something like that. It's a choice we made with our dragons because we wanted them to be frozen.

 

Personally I do not want an option for them to be reversed because it is supposed to be a permanent action.

 

Edited by Melisande

Share this post


Link to post
Sorry, Nectaris, but I have to disagree. If you unfreeze, you gain another adult. If you kill, you gain nothing but cracked shells/a tombstone.

 

Also, by freezing, you regain a hatchling slot for the time it would have taken your hatchling to grow up. That might be anything between a second and 3 full days.

 

That's why I feel that the fairest option is to return the hatchling to the time it had before being frozen. Or, to make it an actual penalty (if the fairest option isn't feasible), return the hatchling to its full 7 days, which means it would need the full 3 days to grow up.

Then it would have to be untradeable/teleportable.

 

I'd rather have it grow up instantly, but you lose a hatchie slot for 7 days anyway.

Share this post


Link to post

I think that if its changed it needs to be a bit of a PITA to do. Make it a BSA (preferably on a less popular breed) with a significant failure rate and I think the hatchie should immediately grow up, so once something is frozen you cant unfreeze it and trade it. And on that last suggestion, you couldn't use the unfreeze on a hatchie that was frozen recently, to avoid people freezing/unfreezing to make things grow up faster.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think that the mechanic should be changed. Everyone on DC has done something they they regret- as TJ said, it comes with playing any game. There are warnings everywhere that freezing is permanent and cannot be undone, and while I feel for those who now want their CBs back, this was a choice that they made. Just as an example- if we allow people with holidays to unfreeze as part of a one-time deal, EVERYONE will start wanting exceptions- like unfreezing their old frills and bright pinks, or a silver or gold that was frozen accidentally before someone took note of an amazing lineage, etc. If unfreezing is part of a BSA or action in the hatchlings menu, then wherein lies the point of freezing at all? We would likely see an influx of people freezing their hatchlings with intent to unfreeze them at a later time- either for trades, or if they grow up immediately, to clear space in their scroll before catching and freezing more. It would drastically change how the game is played regardless of how it is implemented. There will no longer be any consequence of throwing magic at your dragons.

 

I don't feel that there should be exceptions or reversals to something that is deemed permanent and irreversible before it even happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Could you imagine the price that these would trade for, if we could unfreeze and trade them away?

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/PFGk

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Bg83

 

Even a messy old pink would command a lot. It is my only old pink frozen hatchling, but I have 46 frozen frills.

I don't care honestly. Perhaps because they are limited in scope. It might be done once, for what's a handful of dragons. I'm sure they'd go for CB metallics or 2nd gen prize dragons which is about all anyone trades for at that level anyway, like most everything else. So, not a lot of change to my way of seeing things. And the person that gets them can't really do much with them. I never get requests for breeding for my CB frills, ever.

 

I have a CB frill hatchy. The only thing I'd trade it for is a messy frill hatchy, as I wouldn't mind someone else having it for lineage purposes, but I don't care to lose my sprite. It's cute.

I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill with the, OH BUT THEY MIGHT TRADE IT. THEY'LL UNFREEZE THOUSANDS. I little common sense need be applied. Zombies, incubate, teleport, freezing, everything on the site has limits. I see no reason to believe that unfreezing wouldn't.

Share this post


Link to post

There are warnings everywhere that freezing is permanent and cannot be undone

There's a sentence telling you that freezing is permanent. It never says it can't be undone.

 

Permanently prevent the hatchling from maturing into an adult.

 

In this instance, the word "permanently" might mean that the action cannot be undone. But it might just as well mean that the change is "permanent", but not undo-able. (Eg. you don't need to repeat the Freezing action every other week in order to prevent your hatchling from growing up. Once it's done, it's done.) Like when you use some kind of "permanent" coloration to color your hair. The color stays (unless it's some kind of red, lol), but you can cover it with a different color or bleach your hair or whatnot. You can even "undo" the coloration by using a different coloration that's like your natural hair color.

Share this post


Link to post
but don't penalize everyone everytime they freeze on the ASSUMPTION that they might unfreeze at some later point in time.

Oh! That wasn't the motivation, though. The 'motivation' (insomuch as my question could be said to have one - it's still chiefly a question) would be to add that "penalty" but in turn remove the other one - the limit on freezing.

 

--

 

@Vhale: You make a good point smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post

If unfreezing is part of a BSA or action in the hatchlings menu, then wherein lies the point of freezing at all? We would likely see an influx of people freezing their hatchlings with intent to unfreeze them at a later time- either for trades, or if they grow up immediately, to clear space in their scroll before catching and freezing more.

Solutions to literally every one of these potential exploitations has been discussed already in this thread and I believe I've posted the proposed limitations for each in the top post.

 

As far as consequences go, I am genuinely curious and would like to ask basically everyone who has used a personal responsibility-related argument: why is it so important that there be a 'consequence' for everything, particularly every use of magic? We don't have a 'consequence' when we incubate, influence, or use fertility. If someone makes a choice based on doing their due research with all the information available to them, and then that information changes, why is it wrong to suggest that they should have the ability to reverse that choice due to the new information? I'm not arguing that making such an argument is wrong, mind you; I really want to understand where you're coming from if this is what you believe, because it's highly relevant to the question at hand.

 

Also, as a point of order, we are told every time we use any BSA like incubate or influence that this action is IRREVERSIBLE, but it's common knowledge that if you teleport the incubated/influenced dragon to another user, that action will, in fact, be reversed, even if it gets teleported back to your own scroll.

Edited by LibbyLishly

Share this post


Link to post

This is one of the reasons I am very against this!

 

 

The general consensus is that un-spelled Frozens need to immediately turn adult upon being unFrozen, or otherwise made un-tradeable.

 

So that's not actually an issue. smile.gif

 

 

Edit: signed, The Typo Queen... laugh.gif

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post

So basically we take freezing and make it something that can be done/undone with the flip of a switch, so to speak.

Maybe it does no harm, but I also think for the majority of players it also does not improve game experience, unlike lifting holiday limits, which benefits all.

 

I don't see it as actually being useful for most players, other than players who want to unfreeze rare/discontinued/holiday CB or nice lineages in order to breed for lineages or trade fodder.

While it would be nice (very nice indeed) to have more 2gs from old pinks to add to my collection, I don't see that as a compelling reason to "fix what ain't broke".

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I don't really like the idea of unfreezing dragons.

 

I'm sorry for those who froze their CB holidays expecting they would have never been able to get a 3rd one for freezing, but no one obliged them to do so. They perfectly knew they were going to lose one of their cb holidays forever.

 

The worst thing about a unfreezing BSA is this way people would be able to

- freeze their dragons as soon as they hatch, to gain spaces on scroll (for example during releases or holidays) and then unfreeze them when the busy days are over. De facto bypassing the limit of growing dragons on scroll

- freeze a ton of rare dragons to have all of them suddently ready when they need to offer them for something special, inflating the trading market.

 

For these reasons I think if we are really going to have an unfreezing possibility it should

1) be very limitated in number. It could be a scroll action. Or maybe even a BSA, but which when used is consumed for all your dragons (like the Summon one). And have a very long cooldown time, like 30 or 60 days. So that people could not abuse it.

2) make unfrozen hatchlings grow up immediatly. So that people wouln't be able to use it to trade dragons. And we won't have problems like someone trading CB old holidays or frozen retired dragons.

Share this post


Link to post

I am still trying to figure out why we need this. For the people who are so dead set on being able to unfreeze, what hatchlings are you thinking of unfreezing and why? Do you have many? Are they holidays, discontinueds, nice lineages, CB rares, or just what?

Share this post


Link to post
I am still trying to figure out why we need this. For the people who are so dead set on being able to unfreeze, what hatchlings are you thinking of unfreezing and why? Do you have many? Are they holidays, discontinueds, nice lineages, CB rares, or just what?

I know that many people have CB holidays that they froze on the assumption that that was the ONLY way they'd be able to have a hatchie sprite; that was part of the reason for the thread that suggested an exception be made to the no-unfreezing rule just for those people. Others froze things (nice lineage or CB) before they got into lineage - I have one CB Shadow Walker that I regret freezing in my first couple of months on DC, and which is the ONLY thing I'd unfreeze at this point, though I can easily continue to live with it being frozen. I personally mentioned the concern about GoNs and if those are given breeding capabilities, since I'm planning to freeze my 2nd one. Some people would love to unfreeze a discontinued breed or two for lineages - I've seen enough of those laments in the "Stupid things you've done on DC" thread. But overall, I doubt everyone actually has that many things they'd unfreeze if given the chance.

 

You are right, though: we don't need this, just like we didn't need the ability to get more than two of each Christmas dragon and just like we don't need any BSA that currently exists. However, it may be that such a change would enhance gameplay for many people. I'd primarily appreciate it on behalf of everyone else, since it doesn't matter that much to me personally.

 

If I may turn the question, though, if all the limitations to prevent trading and hatchie slot exploitations are put into place, what is the reason why you remain so strongly against it? If it will do some players a great deal of good, is there something else going on that you see as a potential detriment to the game? And if so, what steps can we take to make all sides happy?

Share this post


Link to post
I am still trying to figure out why we need this. For the people who are so dead set on being able to unfreeze, what hatchlings are you thinking of unfreezing and why? Do you have many? Are they holidays, discontinueds, nice lineages, CB rares, or just what?

For me it's just Holidays. I have a few frozen 2g Metals and discontinueds, but I won't unfreeze the former because I don't need them and I won't unfreeze the latter because I can't replace them.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.