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"Display lineage as originally received"

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Question; how would this lineage thing work for those who don't plan on playing dragoncave forever? Would there be a build up of names since names are eventually removed after long periods of inactivity or would this new lineage thing prevent that? Take the dorkfaces for example, could I breed a lineage with ancestors all having the same name despite being different dragons?

Edited by Sarah864

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Your analogy is wrong and unacceptable. No, I am not claiming I have the right to "break into your house" and ruin something there. But I have the right to change something in *my* house at any moment, and if something I've done to it affects your house in some way, then...well, sorry. *shrugs*

 

Unless you make a lineage all by yourself, you do NOT receive the whole line! The lineage as a whole is NOT your property, unless you own all the dragons in it. You only obtain the final product, that's all. If the lineage is a result of contribution of several players, I do not see anything wrong in them being able to change the way the lineage looks, be it agreed among them or not, and yes, I think it's perfectly fair if it affects the way the offsprings' lineages look like.

I received a piece of paper, which is what the scroll IS (ie, scroll? Piece of parchment?), not the dragon line. In short, what I was given was a piece of parchment telling me who the dragon's parents are when I first collected the egg.

 

CB dragons weren't raised by humans and so don't have pieces of parchment with them. Which is why they don't have lineages. They had parents, that's for sure! But how would us humans know of said parents if no one was keeping track? The lineage view is just like any pedigree paper you'd care to name: a human recording of a creature's lineage.

 

In short, my analogy is EXACTLY correct and that's EXACTLY what you are claiming.

 

And no, you don't have the right to change something in your house that damages mine. If a tree in MY yard falls on YOUR house, who pays? Your insurance company or mine? MINE pays, because the tree was in my yard and damaged YOUR house. Sorry but thems the facts of life.

 

C4.

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Let us take your position to it's logical conclusion, based on doing a similar thing IRL.

 

You are saying that:

You have the right to break into my house, go through my personal belongings, until you find my horse's Jockey Club registration papers that I bought with my horse. And then you can burn them. Which would drastically alter the value of my Thoroughbred race horse. Horses can't race without their registration papers, nor breed as Thoroughbreds, nor be sold as Thoroughbreds.

Also what even is this. No, the lineages on DC are like living family trees, since dragons pretty much live forever unless you kill them.

 

It's less of "you burned my registration papers" and more of "Well my grandpa's grandpa was killed, and my uncle legally changed his name".

 

I know, we want to say it's on paper, but with how the lineage pages actually WORK is NOT a thing like registration papers.

Edited by edwardelricfreak

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Also what even is this. No, the lineages on DC are like living family trees, since dragons pretty much live forever unless you kill them.

 

It's less of "you burned my registration papers" and more of "Well my grandpa's grandpa was killed, and my uncle legally changed his name".

If that were so, then why don't CB dragons have lineages?

 

C4.

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Guys, calm down. These analogies are getting out of hand. I get that making the game too easy would ruin the fun and if I work hard to get a shimmer without a zombie ancestor than I should be able to trade it for more than someone who didn't, or at the very least not have it's worth go down. However, I'm also working on a long 10gen and it would be an utter disaster if one of the breeders decided to zombify a line. We have lineage trading threads where these things are somewhat protected. Wouldn't it just be better to be able to add a notice at the bottom of a transfer saying "do not kill, or zombify and please name"? Or perhaps a toggle to pass this note down to all offsprings of your dragons? huh.gif

Edited by Sarah864

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I received a piece of paper, which is what the scroll IS (ie, scroll? Piece of parchment?), not the dragon line. In short, what I was given was a piece of parchment telling me who the dragon's parents are when I first collected the egg.

 

CB dragons weren't raised by humans and so don't have pieces of parchment with them. Which is why they don't have lineages. They had parents, that's for sure! But how would us humans know of said parents if no one was keeping track? The lineage view is just like any pedigree paper you'd care to name: a human recording of a creature's lineage.

 

In short, my analogy is EXACTLY correct and that's EXACTLY what you are claiming.

 

And no, you don't have the right to change something in your house that damages mine. If a tree in MY yard falls on YOUR house, who pays? Your insurance company or mine? MINE pays, because the tree was in my yard and damaged YOUR house. Sorry but thems the facts of life.

 

C4.

If my house affects yours in a way that harms it, then yes, I am to take responsibility for that.

 

But that's the thing. On DC, it isn't defined anywhere that a killed parent RUINS a lineage. Please tell me where in any official threads/FAQ/etc. it's stated that altering the lineage does any harm?

 

As long as "harm" is relative and as long as it's not a matter of rules how one should handle a dragon that has offsprings, your example is incorrect and I'd want things concerning lineages to stay as they currently are, thank you very much.

 

How you'd think of me if I "ruined" your lineage by doing something to my dragon is your business, but yes, I think it's perfectly acceptable from the point of view in the game, unless something is changed in the rules regarding it (which I hope never happens).

Edited by ZzelaBusya

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Because dragons don't care. Only people do.

If it was a magical living family tree, then a CB's parents would be on it, because the parents are still alive in the wild.

 

I've seen any number of dragons who's parents are "wild" dragons: dragons that were released into the wild. Those guys keep their lineages.

 

The truth is, the way deadlines were originally handled wasn't the way TJ wanted them handled, or else he would still be deleting dead dragon's lineages. And he's not anymore, is he?

 

C4.

 

PS:

It IS in the rules: Once a dragon leaves your scroll, you have no control over it. So if a dragon's personal lineage is part of it, then you no longer have any control over how the new owner of said dragon views the lineage of the dragon on their scroll. Your dragon's lineage view you still control. The OFFSPRING's lineage view you don't, because it LEFT your control with said offspring.

 

PPS:

Making a note like that doesn't work for maliciousness or accidents, which is what the true target of this is.

Edited by cyradis4

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It's also just not how the game works. The game is set up for having CB dragons with no recorded lineages and the ability to breed to create lineages.

 

Why there are even analogies to "real life" when this is a fantasy game are just silly and I even feel silly for creating an analogy of my own.

 

The truth is, this suggestion is already able to be done through screenshots. It doesn't make sense for the hatchling to retain that lineage. In fact, it doesn't make sense for you to freeze any lineage at all in-game.

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It is in the rules: Once a dragon leaves your scroll, you have no control over it.

Why sure, once a dragon I bred leaves my scroll I certainly have no control over it. The new owner can breed it as they like, they can freeze it, kill it, name it, neglect it, anything. But I still have control over my part of the lineage, I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to accept that. By changing something on my dragons I do not affect *your dragon*, your dragon as it is is perfectly alright.

 

As I said, a lineage isn't something you own, unless you are the only person who worked on it.

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PPS:

Making a note like that doesn't work for maliciousness or accidents, which is what the true target of this is.

 

I see... but isn't that what the purpose of the report button is for? I think the main issue with this idea is that it affects too many people all at once. What if I'd like a zombie ancestor? Or what if one of my scroll goals is to start deadlines? I think we need to find a medium somewhere...

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It all boils down to... if it isn't on YOUR scroll, there's not a darn thing you can do about it.

 

If you don't want your lineages ruined, don't use bred eggs that you didn't breed yourself.

 

Don't waste TJ's time asking for something that is irrelevant.

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It all boils down to... if it isn't on YOUR scroll, there's not a darn thing you can do about it.

 

If you don't want your lineages ruined, don't use bred eggs that you didn't breed yourself.

 

Don't waste TJ's time asking for something that is irrelevant.

Maybe, but it takes a long time to breed lineages (have you seen the EPIC project? It's amazing O-O), some protection should be there to prevent all the hard work going to waste because of one person.

Edited by Sarah864

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Maybe, but it takes a long time to breed lineages (have you seen the EPIC project? It's amazing O-O), some protection should be there to prevent all the hard work going to waste because of one person.

Usually for the lineage-related threads, they have rules such as "no killing", etc.

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Usually for the lineage-related threads, they have rules such as "no killing", etc.

But that doesn't mean everyone will follow them. IDK, I think this idea is a bit too extreme, kinda like stopping refusals so that you can breed your perfect lineage, I think a passed on note or a symbol next to the dragon along with the report button would be better or something similar to that effect.

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But that doesn't mean everyone will follow them.

This doesn't stop anyone, either. You just "freeze" your own dragon's lineage, but then others can still kill the parents.

 

So that point is kind of moot.

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This doesn't stop anyone, either. You just "freeze" your own dragon's lineage, but then others can still kill the parents.

 

So that point is kind of moot.

By freezing the lineage everyone can choose to see that one and value it more whereas without the protection there's only one view. Freezing provides a backup that can be valued more over the original while the lineage rule can be broken resulting in nothing.

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I see... but isn't that what the purpose of the report button is for? I think the main issue with this idea is that it affects too many people all at once. What if I'd like a zombie ancestor? Or what if one of my scroll goals is to start deadlines? I think we need to find a medium somewhere...

The report button does no good in the main Cave and TJ will NOT intervene in the case of malicious or accidental killing. In short, Person A can kill their CB tinsel, and Person B, who paid multiple CB Golds for a 2nd gen, now has a useless deadline with the only "proof" at best being an alterable screenshot (I've altered screen shots before, and you can't tell they were altered, so yes it can be done).

 

So yes, as it currently stands person A can purposefully, maliciously, and fully knowingly cheat person B out of multiple CB Golds. It happens on a smaller scale all the time.

 

I particularly lul'ed over the person who killed a CB Cavern Lurker because another didn't return an auto AP'ed egg. If that's not using the kill function to force another player to return an egg "or else" I'm not sure what is. (I was laughing at the CB lurker owner, because that was just a beauty of a stupid thing to do over an easily re-bred Shimmer egg. I mean seriously, killing an irreplaceable CB over a very easily replaced Shimmer? Shimmers were breeding well at that time. Talk about cutting off your own nose to spite your face! xd.png ).

 

And then there are simple accidents, where someone killed the wrong dragon. Or those who don't realize it bothers others.

 

Basically, what's wanted is some protection, so that a lineage you traded for originally can't be destroyed. So if you trade the offspring after the grandparents were killed, then the dead line would show.

 

I personally do almost all of my own lineages for just this reason.

 

If you'd like a Zombie ancestor, it'd still show up as a Zombie, if you toggled it that way for that lineage. There are tons and tons of suggestions out there to let you do just that.

 

This suggestions isn't even my favorite (my personal favorite is one of the Nilia BSA suggestions, Research I think it was, which covered your concerns and ours perfectly, but the deadliners didn't like it because they couldn't destroy my lineages on my scroll anymore, basically the exact same arguments that have been put forth here, virtually verbatim).

 

Like I said in my first post in this thread, I've heard it all before about a dozen times at least.

 

C4.

 

 

 

PS:

AH! Here's the thread!

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=145992&st=0

Edited by cyradis4

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The report button does no good in the main Cave and TJ will NOT intervene in the case of malicious or accidental killing. In short, Person A can kill their CB tinsel, and Person B, who paid multiple CB Golds for a 2nd gen, now has a useless deadline with the only "proof" at best being an alterable screenshot (I've altered screen shots before, and you can't tell they were altered, so yes it can be done).

 

So yes, as it currently stands person A can purposefully, maliciously, and fully knowingly cheat person B out of multiple CB Golds. It happens on a smaller scale all the time.

 

I particularly lul'ed over the person who killed a CB Cavern Lurker because another didn't return an auto AP'ed egg. If that's not using the kill function to force another player to return an egg "or else" I'm not sure what is. (I was laughing at the CB lurker owner, because that was just a beauty of a stupid thing to do over an easily re-bred Shimmer egg. I mean seriously, killing an irreplaceable CB over a very easily replaced Shimmer? Shimmers were breeding well at that time. Talk about cutting off your own nose to spite your face! xd.png ).

 

And then there are simple accidents, where someone killed the wrong dragon. Or those who don't realize it bothers others.

 

Basically, what's wanted is some protection, so that a lineage you traded for originally can't be destroyed. So if you trade the offspring after the grandparents were killed, then the dead line would show.

 

I personally do almost all of my own lineages for just this reason.

 

If you'd like a Zombie ancestor, it'd still show up as a Zombie, if you toggled it that way for that lineage. There are tons and tons of suggestions out there to let you do just that.

 

This suggestions isn't even my favorite (my personal favorite is one of the Nilia BSA suggestions, Research I think it was, which covered your concerns and ours perfectly, but the deadliners didn't like it because they couldn't destroy my lineages on my scroll anymore, basically the exact same arguments that have been put forth here, virtually verbatim).

 

Like I said in my first post in this thread, I've heard it all before about a dozen times at least.

 

C4.

 

 

 

PS:

AH! Here's the thread!

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=145992&st=0

Well that was informative. I think I'd be all for this now so long as it only works if you have both adult dragons or something to that effect. There still may be a problem with the names though but that could be easily remedied by having them show up in bold/italics for deceased dragons in the lineage viewer.

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Wow, darn..... and wow!

 

I have not logged on to the forums in forever, but a friend of mine redirected me here for some lulz. Thank you all for entertaining me for a little bit, I needed that! Tough I didn't need all the "head->desk" I've done after it. That being said,

 

I feel I can chime in because some of you brought in as an argument players that do not come to the forums, therefore you spoke about me as well. So here I am, one of those that doesn't much care about the forums, but still plays DC anyway. So what does a player like me say about this issue? Why in the world would ANYONE care about how ANOTHER player gets to see a lineage of his/her OWN dragons??? You get the unrestricted freedom to kill whatever dragon belongs to you, and in return, another player gets the normal freedom they deserve: an option to see the dead dragon appear in the lineage instead of a tombstone. To me this is a win-win situation. So what is the problem? There truly isn't one.

 

 

I wanted to bring up this post because it makes such a valuable point.

 

Why are some people so upset at the idea of people having an option of being able to view a lineage on a dragon - which those other people own - the way it came, rather than having destroyed the very reason they obtained it, when those objecting don't even need to see it, and it doesn't affect their dragons or scrolls at all?

 

There are people saying that other people should not seek a compromise equitable to all - where everyone can still control the dragons on their own scrolls as they please - but instead should continue to just suck it up if their lineages are ruined.

 

Yet these people may also be complaining that they don't want their killed/altered dragons to appear in a lineage remaining as it was when they traded or abandoned the offspring - even in the lineage of someone else's dragon.

 

Furthermore, some of these people sound almost outraged at the idea, even though it doesn't affect their dragons or scrolls.

 

Seriously, some of us need to think about the total lack of effect this would have on our dragons if somebody else gets to see a lineage - for which they may have paid big-time - as they got it...

 

 

We can't tell other people what to do with their own dragons on their own scroll, not even if they kill them and ruin the lineages of offspring they may have collected many hard-to-get dragons in trade for.

 

Why would the rules actually change so drastically in the minds of some people when contemplating the possibility that if, by any long shot, we got a toggle that allowed us a choice as to whether to retain what we'd collected and possibly paid a lot for, in order to make circumstances beyond the control of any of us more fair to all, we might be able to see some of their dead/altered dragons as they were in a lineage at the time we got the dragon which is now ours?

 

The easy solution for such objectors would obviously be either to not trade/abandon dragons whose lineages you might not want preserved, or keep them on your scroll, where you have control over them, and don't need to worry about dragons no longer yours.

 

And honestly, if anyone's planning on trading valuable dragons with the unmentioned intention of later killing/altering ancestors they own, to spoil the lineage people will have paid for, that only increases the need for such a choice of lineage display to be available for those so defrauded.

 

 

One more thing, our family has several charts of family trees of various branches, dating back as far as the 10th century, with, obviously, almost everyone on it dead.

 

Even if the original documents and histories were all burnt, the family trees wouldn't change, no names would be erased from either those charts or historical books or novels in which mention of various of them were made, and all names and details of all persons, living and dead at that time, are recorded in the same manner.

 

My parents have passed, but their names remain on the charts and those who have passed since the creation of these documents do not have their information automatically or magically altered to record their decease - we'd have to make a choice to have new ones made up for that.

 

Why would our personal documents recording the genealogy of our dragons be different?

 

 

Edit: to try to avoid what I'm trying to say being misread, where something seemed ambiguous.

Edited by Syphoneira

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It IS in the rules: Once a dragon leaves your scroll, you have no control over it. So if a dragon's personal lineage is part of it, then you no longer have any control over how the new owner of said dragon views the lineage of the dragon on their scroll. Your dragon's lineage view you still control. The OFFSPRING's lineage view you don't, because it LEFT your control with said offspring.

Lineage =/= dragon.

 

I cannot kill your dragon, because you own the dragon. I can, however, alter the lineage because the lineage is NOT your dragon--and thus isn't actually owned by any one person. It's merely a record of known ancestors to the dragon and the condition they're in (hence why CBs don't have them--there isn't a known ancestor set).

 

I like some lineages, I'll be very sad if something happens to several of time--especially one or two I traded for 2nd gens for! But, it happens, because I do not own the lineage--I merely own the dragon for which the lineage is a record of ancestry.

 

 

That said, I'll re-iterate what I originally said: I don't see any harm in changing how you personally see the lineage of a dragon.

 

Basically, once it hits the AP/is gifted/traded away, it defaults to the current lineage and the "original lineage" must be re-enabled by the new owner.

 

I also feel like it needs to be a dragon-by-dragon basis, because you may have some lineages that you NEED the altered version (like a deadline you're working on with other people) or you happen to like the changed version, and some you want the original showing for.

 

 

I'm either-way when it comes to how other people view the dragon on your scroll, provided they can see that you're using the "show original" option and that the lineage that you're displaying is no longer the current lineage.

 

 

However, how would that impact offspring YOU send off if you're viewing it in the unaltered state? Would they have the unaltered state you've chosen as their default? Or would the current lineage be their default and they, too, would have to select the "view original" option?

 

Personally, I'd think it'd be better to have the current lineage as the default with the option to "view original" needing to be toggled on by the new owner of the offspring.

 

 

Though, honestly, as for trading? I dunno, I could easily see dragons who need to have the view altered back to the original setting being considered valued at less than those who don't need the altered setting to see the original lineage.

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Yes, each bred dragon would need to have a 'now' and 'then' 'lineage toggle', I suppose in 'Actions' or wherever, so that the owner could determine how they wanted to View it.

 

But it should be showing to others as the owner sees it as well, and that should be what's reflected in the lineage of any offspring, so that the value the owner may have paid through the nose for wasn't lost because of whatever the person they got it from - who may have demanded a high price for offspring specifically because of the lineage - did to any of the dragons in the lineage to kill or alter it.

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So tell me Fuzz, I've never gotten you on this one.

 

You support a person's right to vamp an egg on their own scroll, after all it is their egg / dragon now. But you DON'T support giving people the ability to protect how one of their own dragon's lineage displays? Which only affects how THEIR dragon, and its own offspring, is displayed, and not how the parents are displayed?

 

Do you see the hypocrisy in that? Because I sure do.

 

Fuzz, note: I'm not picking on you, you're just the person who brought vamps up and I see people do this all the time, say that the dragon is the owner's to do with what they want and yet say that the parent's owner has the right to change another person's dragon (ie, destroy how the dragon's original lineage displayed). I genuinely want an answer, because I think this is the crux of the issue: Giving people the ability to protect how their own dragon is displayed, to keep it how it was when they got it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Since you ask…. xd.png (I don't mind being picked on !!)

 

The lineage is not an object. It isn’t owned by anyone. The dragon is. A dragon is NOT its lineage. You are not talking about DRAGONS being displayed on your scroll, you are talking about one step back, to where the lineage is displayed. If the breeder of the new vamp looks at that list of children, they see among all those carefully bred ones – a shocking vampire.

 

Well, sorry, big deal. I know quite a few people who like to see pure lists of (say) balloons under that “progeny” link and are deeply upset to see a vamp. Same kind of issue. Them’s the breaks.

We already have a lineage *viewer*, but I don't think that the viewer should be altered in some sort just because someone might get a traumatic experience having used the viewer to discover a killed/renamed dragon in the line the offspring of which they own.

 

I think the forum userbase is picky/snobbish/call it any way you like about lineages enough already without any special suggestions covering that involved. I would hate to see such an "improvement" being implemented, because clearly it has to do with subjective things and also *trade value*. You can't get a shiny trade for your stairstep Tinsel now because one of the ancestors was killed - I can't even estimate the severity of that disaster, must be so horrible. *snorts*

 

Seriously, enough of that "b-but lineages!", I think what we have regarding it is enough. People who decide to continue building lineages started by someone else should just face and accept the fact that it's absolutely fine if said someone else can change something at any moment and it may affect the line.

This, very much.

Seriously, if your perfect checker was a dragon so dear to you, why would it become less cherished because of someone out there killing/unnaming/renaming a dragon in it. It seems like nonsense to me, and even though one may not get a shiny trade for it out there, with rare exceptions, I do not see any other problems. There's always a risk to consider, don't know how many times I should repeat that but why not.

 

Those dozens of threads you mentioned are often created (and supported) by the same people again and again. I understand that it's important to you, but I don't see why something epic has to be done because of some line out there that doesn't strike your fancy any longer. This issue doesn't seem serious enough to me to require such radical changes.

 

How is the ruining of trade worth not a problem? We can't even post "I accept IOUs" in a trade post anymore because it might lead to us getting cheated, yet right now we can be cheated by having things we've essentially "bought" changed on us after the fact.

Tj stated that he is searching for a better way to DISPLAY lineages, not to change what is ON them. (important difference)

 

Besides@adp: trade value is the worst argument ever.

You can tell this is a hot thread – this is probably the first time I have ever agreed with whitebaron xd.png

 

There's a way to do this already, two ways in fact, with no coding on TJ's part and minimal work for the person. It's even for individual dragons.

 

It's called...

 

A screenshot.

 

I rather have to agree with Zzela's points, as well. This suggestion is not needed.

Yes.

edwardelricfreak:

Your screen shotted dragon is still useless for its originally intended purpose, as it won't pass its history on to its offspring. And the dragon's lineage has STILL been altered significantly.

 

C4.

Why would you pass on a currently incorrect lineage to a hatchling?

 

And even if you have this "option", the lineage can still be altered significantly, you just won't see it. What's the difference?

None, really.

Unless you make a lineage all by yourself, you do NOT receive the whole line! The lineage as a whole is NOT your property, unless you own all the dragons in it. You only obtain the final product, that's all. If the lineage is a result of contribution of several players, I do not see anything wrong in them being able to change the way the lineage looks, be it agreed among them or not, and yes, I think it's perfectly fair if it affects the way the offsprings' lineages look like.

This suggestions isn't even my favorite (my personal favorite is one of the Nilia BSA suggestions, Research I think it was, which covered your concerns and ours perfectly, but the deadliners didn't like it because they couldn't destroy my lineages on my scroll anymore, basically the exact same arguments that have been put forth here, virtually verbatim).

 

PS:

AH! Here's the thread!

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=145992&st=0

Actually I quite like that one. And actually I don’t mind either way about this viewing thing. I just do think it unnecessary and that TJ’s time could be put to better use.

 

And I do dislike the “trade value” issue coming up. Players who trade are on forum. They already know that lineages can be changed. Players not on forum will be surprised about all sorts of things, and this is only one of many.

And given that you can now see through tombstones, no-one can say they were “cheated” – if you have that 3rd gen shimmer and its owner kills the CB shimmer –you can still see back to the CB by clicking on the tombstone.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Honestly I think research is more complicated than this by a lot. And I'm saying that as one of the people who helped come up with it.

 

I'm increasingly leaning towards the "freeze lineage" option, as it's quite simple and would cut down on how much information the cave needs to store.

 

Also, in a game where, again, thousands of people own the same looking dragon, lineage is the dragon as far as a lot of us are concerned. It's something you have to click on a dragon on my scroll to see. I fail to see how that's less a part of the dragon than its picture, name, description, or progeny list. It is a part of the dragon, just as your family history is a part of you. I would dare say it is the most unique part of the dragon. One many people, from aesthetics to trade value to role play reasons, value highly. Even if you don't own the dragons in a record, you own the record itself, and what other people do with their copies shouldn't affect yours.

 

And yet right now it can be changed on people unwillingly.

 

The terms and conditions for the site say all user interactions must be "willful." If you can do something that changes how I view the ancestry of a dragon I own, that's interaction, but it is certainly not willful.

 

Just as people can't harass others into returning abandoned offspring, people shouldn't be able to change how others view things that they own. Those records are theirs now, to preserve and admire as they wish. You shouldn't have the right to go in and change that.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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It's also just one of the most illogical aspects of the game. I know that isn't necessarily a reason to spend time changing something, but I personally find things that make as little sense as this really irritating. People's family trees don't magically disappear out of record books all over the world whenever they pass away, and neither would dragons'.

 

I do understand that many people have spent years making pretty lineage patterns based on this illogical weirdness, so it wouldn't be fair to completely change it at this late hour merely because it makes no logical sense; but I do wish it could be a scroll-based display toggle. I would gladly sacrifice the non-inbred appearance of the couple of dead-ancestor lineages I have for dragon genealogies that seem more like something that exists in the real world.

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