~ Secret Santa!

[Sarah864]

We need a better solution to secret santas that dont play or just accept gifts. Second lists ahould have been started earlier. We need a I can breed or I can catch part an extra bonus should be given to the helpers/elves (nothing big maybe just a list of thank yous) . Hm, thats it for now I think the biggest issue was making and sorting the lists but I only joined in August 2013

[Glyndlamir]

Hmm, I don't remember too well but I think I liked this one better because I have a Gold Trophy now and can hold 7 eggs instead of four. The different groups were not bad, but they were making everything very complicated.

 

Edit:

@Sarah

Yes to solutions for the Santas that don't gift, but I think the help posts are enough. Anyone who can breed/catch is able to see what is needed and at the same time won't be pressured to deliver. I think it wrked quite well, everyone was helping each other out.

Personally I don't need any extra-bonusses for helping.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Glyndlamir

[Red2111]

We need a better solution to secret santas that dont play or just accept gifts. Second lists ahould have been started earlier. We need a I can breed or I can catch part an extra bonus should be given to the helpers/elves (nothing big maybe just a list of thank yous) . Hm, thats it for now I think the biggest issue was making and sorting the lists but I only joined in August 2013

hmmm this brings up a good point or two. (tho i disagree with a thank you list for helpers, imo we help because we want to not to get recognition; and gifting and giving is a big part of the theme for this event :wink: )

 

every gifitng thread has scammers, so perhaps a black list started. also, the only improvements i can see from this year are the following:

 

- more organizers to send out lists so the PMs go out faster and possibly all at the same time (tho you can't help RL and all that jazz)

 

- giving 4 day grace period for people to reply to PM then kick them out of the game. make sure people understand about this short grace period when they sign up.

 

- starting 2nd lists sooner (as Sarah mentioned)

 

- keeping the "I Need Help" portion of the OP

 

- grey listing those who sign up and never respond (menaing if they sign up for the next one, thers an immediate back up list for their giftee/gifter JIC they ditch again)

 

- perminate public black list for those who scam (get eggs but dont give) cannot joining even ever

 

- better way to report if you haven't recieved a gift and finding out if your giftee/gifter has seen their message (these messages really cluttered and spammed the thread imo)

[Fayne]

Firstly thanks heap PointofOrigin for my gifts, they're lovely I've had great fun organising all the gifts for my SS, as well. I love figuring out presents for people, so this was lots of fun.

 

I didn't take part last year, so don't know what changed, but related to the backup gifting... I'm not sure if this would help or not, but perhaps a list of potential backup gifters could be made close to the start of the inital gifting period so that they can be approached as soon as it is clear someone has gone AWOL? Mind you that's probably not needed given how quickly we all jumped on the backup gifting bandwagon this time anyway... Either way.

 

In hindsight, perhaps people should note that they're going away on holiday if it's going to clash with the gifting period - I came back from a holiday around the same time PMs were going out initially, but my head was still in holiday mode on a beach somewhere... I don't know how many gifters/giftees were affected by people going away, but it could take a bit of the uncertainty out of things where the gifter/giftee has gone idle.

[Sarah864]

I was just throwing some ideas around, if helpers dont want extra bonuses then that's fine and I now agree with the breeding/catching pressure. Though backups would be good just in case generosity runs out, they could also be second sanatas. I think a 7 day instead of a 4 day grace period would be better. Yes to the blacklists. As to whether we need more organizers or not, well thats up to Oasis and PointOfOrigin to comment on. I know we're already seeking (aka trying) a solution to making the lists clearer and more organized and I know half the people had to wait for their lists. Excuse spelling and grammar mistakes, on mobile

Edited January 31, 2014 by Sarah864

[Jon_]

I agree with the four-day grace period to make things go more smoothly and kick out people who don't play properly.

 

I don't think we need the extra bonuses (as in eggs and hatchies) for helpers. If they aren't willing to gift for free, trading would work out fine as it did this year with the "I Need Help" forms. A list of thank you sounds nice though, and maybe a banner that can be placed in their signatures.

 

I really like the idea of Second Santas, but how exactly this will be done will need a lot more of further discussions.

[psyrae]

my biggest suggestion would be more forms -- the 'I Need Help' form helped a lot to separate those posts and make them easier to pick out, maybe a 'Egg/Hatchling for Offer' form as well? not for updating the first posts, but just to pick them out when scanning the thread.

 

Also, more helpers and a forum account will help here -- definitely a short acceptance period, where unless other arrangements have been previously made, Santas are expected to reply to -- not just look at the PMs with their list. Even if they're not ready to gift yet, just a 'Yes I received my list and will be participating'. No asking about Santas until after that.

 

Also maybe some way for giftees to be checked off as having received a gift? Not sure of a good way to implement that though....

 

Also maybe a list of people willing to breed from their scroll on the first posts that Santas can PM when looking to fill requests? Just trying to think of how to keep the thread cleaner and more organized.

[Jazeki]

I would suggest shortening the sign up period and then have a check in of sorts after everyone is paired up to cut down on some of the wait time/ lost Santa confusion. I also support a backup gifter list and another check in halfway through the gifting period to see who is still in need of gifts. Some really awesome people came through this time and I was able to help out where I could, but I think that there needs to be some way to find out who still needs gifts more than just before the end of the gifting period. I also kind of don't understand the point of sorting since so many people are willing to help out now.

[simkim]

I think the biggest issue was that it wasn't tiered.

 

For example, there are people's lists that are asking for cb everything.

 

Others that are asking for cb rares, low gen shimmers such as 2nd-3rd gens, even 4th.

 

Someone with a tough list could have been paired with someone who's a newbie and has no clue how to get the eggs requested.

 

And vice versa.

 

So yes, I think there should be a tier level aspect.

 

No trophy can only hold what, 4 eggs?

Bronze trophy = 5

Silver = 6

Gold = 7

 

...

 

Another issue is that maybe the lower trophies scrolls were locked and they couldn't breed or find eggs or something.

 

It's less of an issue with those who are gold trophies for obvious reason. They have a much larger breeding pool. They have experience with trading.

 

So my suggestion, to reduce any dropouts, would be to reimplement the tier list.

 

I think that's the major thing that helps keep people interested. Based on my experience in running Caring Cupids last year.

 

And i'm babbbbbling...

[Sirikith]

Definitley for the 4 days period and blacklisting drop-outs. My giftee claimed the 2 easier stuff and 2 CB rares, then disapperad just when I got the really tricky stuff-one grew up on my scroll, the other one I gave back to the breeder. To avoid gifts growing up on gifters scroll, participants should be at least online twice a week.

[Fayne]

I think the biggest issue was that it wasn't tiered.

 

For example, there are people's lists that are asking for cb everything.

 

Others that are asking for cb rares, low gen shimmers such as 2nd-3rd gens, even 4th.

 

Someone with a tough list could have been paired with someone who's a newbie and has no clue how to get the eggs requested.

 

<snip for length >

I can't remember exactly, but didn't PointofOrigin or Oasis mention that the gifters/giftees had been paired up to some extent, rather than being completely random?

 

Not arguing with you, I agree that tiering or presorting lists is good.

 

Of course I think the other thing is technically we only had to gift one thing and the list was supposed to provide plenty of options so we could achieve that one thing, we all got pretty carried away though.

Edited to add: Not sure whether or not that adds extra pressure to relative newbies taking part in this, when they see other people (e.g. gold trophies) finishing off entire lists...

Edited January 31, 2014 by Fayne

[Claudii]

I actually don't understand why there should have been problems due to not having those "tiers". On the first post was stating what one was able to put on there wishlist. There were 6 spots on the wishlist where one could say what they want, and all spots had different requirements, so that everybody should be able to get at least one gift from the wishlist, as some spots weren't allowed to be filled with rares. So if there were wishlists with only "CB this and that" or only "this rare and that rare" on it, they shouldn't have been accepted, as that was IMO against the rules.

 

Sure, people are always hoping to get the rare things on their wishlist, so that might put some pressure on the newer players who aren't able to get rares. But you should never expect to get the rare stuff. The only things from my wishlist I was really looking for and not able to get for quite a while were the CB Copper and the CB Lavender Opal. The other spots I filled with things of which I thought that they wouldn't be too hard to get and which I like, like CB of some of my favourite common breeds, or even-gen lineages. I would have been totally fine with only getting one or two CB common hatchlings, as I am usually to lazy to catch them from the cave and hatch them. But I got a lot more things and I am very grateful for that!

 

Everybody who signs up for a project like this should be aware that their Secret Santa could be a Newbie who isn't able to catch or trade rares, and so they should also put down wishes that are quite easy to get. I think this project isn't about getting more and more pretty stuff for the own scroll, but about making others smile by giving them little gifts. So it should be quite natural that everybody does their best to make their giftee happy, but every giftee should be content with what they get.

 

 

[Jazeki]

I am not sure if tiering is the issue. I think it's what people are asking for. Even though I have a gold trophy and years of experience and more to work with, I had trouble fulfilling some of the requests because I cannot readily catch CB rares or uncommons nor can I breed for specified lineages. I had to turn down an extra santa list because it was too hard for me to fulfill any of the requests on there. Last year, I had the same issue. Luckily some very nice people were able to help out, but I think we really need to clarify the rarity factor for requests.

[Ruby Eyes]

Edited to add: Not sure whether or not that adds extra pressure to relative newbies taking part in this, when they see other people (e.g. gold trophies) finishing off entire lists...

Well, with my gold trophy, I managed 4 of my giftee's 6 wishes ... I never ever managed to catch a gold in the cave in my entire scroll life (I've just recently been gifted one ) and I never managed to create a neglected either. On the other hand, I've never spent so much time looking for those evil metallics in the cave like I did this month and I did catch a handful of Blusangs this way - also on my giftee's wishlist, so at least there was *some* win in that.

 

Luckily, there is no pressure regarding finishing off the whole list, it just feels like an accomplishment if you *do* succeed (and makes someone else happy), so I'd try for that every year again! (I just hope next time I'll get a wishlist without those two items )

[Red2111]

^ what Claudii said.

 

this isnt' a trading thread, its like christmas. you might tell grandma "hey i'd love a gift card to the gap" but when she gives you a hand knit itchy sweater, you dont be a brat and throw a fit. you take the sweater, say thanks and that you love it and then shove it in the back of your closet and go on about your business.

 

gifts are not trades. and if someone comes into this event expecting lots of pretties or rares then they have the wrong idea about this event imo

 

anyways, i love the idea of adding to the OP a list of rares that people can breed, so people who need help can just look over the list and PM them directly to ask for help.

 

 

tiers could be helpful, they would certaintly speed things up faster as far as getting the lists out.

 

also, perhaps adding in a mandatory "check in with your giftee to let them know you exists after recieving the list" will help cut down on the "hey has my gifter chekced their PM yet" questions

 

[PointOfOrigin]

last year's Secret Santa

 

That's the thread - for those of you who wish to see the differences between these two versions just read through the first three posts. You'll notice them straight of the bat.

 

Now, I'll address ideas one by one. If I miss something, remind me.

 

every gifitng thread has scammers, so perhaps a black list started. also, the only improvements i can see from this year are the following:

 

- more organizers to send out lists so the PMs go out faster and possibly all at the same time (tho you can't help RL and all that jazz)

 

- giving 4 day grace period for people to reply to PM then kick them out of the game. make sure people understand about this short grace period when they sign up.

 

- starting 2nd lists sooner (as Sarah mentioned)

 

- keeping the "I Need Help" portion of the OP

 

- grey listing those who sign up and never respond (menaing if they sign up for the next one, thers an immediate back up list for their giftee/gifter JIC they ditch again)

 

- perminate public black list for those who scam (get eggs but dont give) cannot joining even ever

 

- better way to report if you haven't recieved a gift and finding out if your giftee/gifter has seen their message (these messages really cluttered and spammed the thread imo)

 

- black list is definitely in order for the next year, together with greylist. Right now, I'm still deciding which offenses are grave enough for a ban.

 

- that's also on to do list (honestly, right now I'm swimming in volunteers). To add, this year, even if it did seem longer for you guys, all of the lists were sent under twenty four hours. The only reason why some people received their lists earlier was because Oasis and me are in completely different timezones. Literally, when it was time for me to wake up it was evening for Oasis and the other way around. So, by the time I started sending lists all of them were sorted. The only problem there was a clash in the timezones.

 

- Now, this year there was a week long period for people to read their PMs. In fact, it even got shortened because lots of people were worried about not receiving their gifts right now. In the end, it resulted in a couple of people like Fayne, who got kicked and then returned because they reappeared. So, if anything, I'd like to make the grace period even longer - somewhere around ten days.

 

- Lists were changed a couple of times before this, it's just that you guys haven't noticed it. Those changes affected only people whose giftees and gifters weren't around.

 

- I agree

 

- Not just that, but there should be some consequences for them, although I'm still unsure on that front.

 

- Agree on this point too. That will be implemented for the next gifting.

 

- The only better way I can see of doing that is by PMing us organizers. However, since by this point in time we didn't have a thread account that was also impractical. I can't describe to you guys how often Oasis and me forwarded messages to each other, either because they weren't on our part of the list or because we needed to decide on it together etc. Hopefully, PMing us will be easier with the new account.

 

In hindsight, perhaps people should note that they're going away on holiday if it's going to clash with the gifting period - I came back from a holiday around the same time PMs were going out initially, but my head was still in holiday mode on a beach somewhere... I don't know how many gifters/giftees were affected by people going away, but it could take a bit of the uncertainty out of things where the gifter/giftee has gone idle.

 

There was around ten people who never read any of our PMs - and those were mostly people who aren't playing anymore. But sure thing, we can write that down.

 

my biggest suggestion would be more forms -- the 'I Need Help' form helped a lot to separate those posts and make them easier to pick out, maybe a 'Egg/Hatchling for Offer' form as well? not for updating the first posts, but just to pick them out when scanning the thread.

 

That would only work if those hatchies were strictly up for the gifting - in other words, no trading on this thread.

 

Also, more helpers and a forum account will help here -- definitely a short acceptance period, where unless other arrangements have been previously made, Santas are expected to reply to -- not just look at the PMs with their list. Even if they're not ready to gift yet, just a 'Yes I received my list and will be participating'. No asking about Santas until after that.

 

I was actually thinking about making an online document with alphabetical list of all participants where you would be expected to confirm that yes, you have read the Pm and that you are still up for gifting. It would make it easier on the PM space for all of us, and all of you guys could see if your giftee is playing at the moment.

 

Also maybe some way for giftees to be checked off as having received a gift? Not sure of a good way to implement that though....

 

That could be done by either editing the first post or keeping it mod private (and once every two weeks we would post the names in the thread). Unfortunately, if you've noticed, not all participants comment here when they receive or send their gifts. So, in some cases it's impossible to know for sure.

 

Also maybe a list of people willing to breed from their scroll on the first posts that Santas can PM when looking to fill requests? Just trying to think of how to keep the thread cleaner and more organized.

 

I was actually thinking of posting all lineages that people need in one post during the sorting period and asking if anyone is capable of breeding them. But personally, I feel that things like that can be sorted through trading threads on "I need help" form.

 

I think the biggest issue was that it wasn't tiered.

 

For example, there are people's lists that are asking for cb everything.

 

Others that are asking for cb rares, low gen shimmers such as 2nd-3rd gens, even 4th.

 

Someone with a tough list could have been paired with someone who's a newbie and has no clue how to get the eggs requested.

 

And vice versa.

 

So yes, I think there should be a tier level aspect.

 

Other people have pointed out before me. Nobody could have asked for CB everything. Spots were created so that everyone can fulfill at least one wish. Also, since tiers weren't implemented people weren't randomly sorted within their ranks. We actually went through every scroll, noted interesting things and then partnered people with each other. As far as I know, none of the newer people had too much of a problem.

Another issue is that maybe the lower trophies scrolls were locked and they couldn't breed or find eggs or something.

 

People have a whole month. I'm pretty sure that even the biggest power players can find space on their scroll for one egg. And again, one month is enough to catch or trade for at least one thing.

 

It's less of an issue with those who are gold trophies for obvious reason. They have a much larger breeding pool. They have experience with trading.

 

So my suggestion, to reduce any dropouts, would be to reimplement the tier list.

 

And then again, there are gold players who can't even get their hands on CB trios, while there are Bronze players who can catch CB metals. Last year I saw gold players who couldn't on their own fulfill one wish for their giftee - despite them supposedly being on the same player level.

 

We removed the tier list with a specific reason: to create some sort of equality. If you check out the previous lists they were pretty poor in choice for anyone but the gold players and platinum players. If I wasn't a Gold player I probably wouldn't have participated last year simply because there wouldn't be any fun in it for me. In this thread we wanted to create just one spot where it didn't matter that you played just for a month or for a couple year span. Seeing attitude like that all over the forums seriously irritates me. I'd like it if at least gifting wasn't subject to this divide between players.

 

Of course, if most of people prefer tiers we can always return to that system. But personally, I'd prefer it we played around with the spot system we had for this year.

 

And on the dropouts: I don't think anyone actually quit this thread - either people quit DC as a whole or they scammed the thread.

 

also, perhaps adding in a mandatory "check in with your giftee to let them know you exists after recieving the list" will help cut down on the "hey has my gifter chekced their PM yet" questions

 

Wouldn't that kinda kill the surprise?

To be honest, next gifting I won't answer on "hey has my gifter chekced their PM yet" questions. It just created a lot of tension and it ended up in me changing the giftees a lot sooner then anticipated. The only answer people will get is at the two week mark. I mean, there's a whole month for the gifting and the make up period (which starts tomorrow if I may add) - it's unreasonable to expect for gifters to have gifts ready the moment they receive their lists.

Edited January 31, 2014 by PointOfOrigin

[Obscure_Trash]

I actually liked that it wasn't tiered. Part of the reason I actually joined in this time. With the tiers, I felt a lot more pressure looking at what kind of things people wanted. I knew I couldn't at all fill any of the gold wishlists even though I have 3k dragons. I like that the list itself was tiered instead of listers. That way pretty much everyone had to put down something that could actually be gotten for them. I was really worried looking at my giftees list still, but for things you can't get, if you just asked around here or in other appropriate threads, people were happy to help out. I haven't gotten my giftees whole wishlist yet and there's one thing on there that I just plain don't think is going to happen, but I got a fair amount and am working on two last things. I don't think my giftee was disappointed and I don't think anyone here suffered too much trying to get the right gifts, right?

 

One thing - I did forget that gifting was happening in the beginning of Jan. I'd already locked myself for a few days by the time I got my list. And I don't normally haunt the trading section, so I missed every time the thread was bumped up. Now, that's not really a big deal because we have a whole month to get gifts, but if thread organizers/helpers were up to it and it wasn't a ridiculous amount of people, perhaps a reminder PM after Christmas but before Jan rolled around to remind people that Secret Santa still exists? But like I said, that's not really a big deal, so it's not something I'd really worry about. You guys were busy enough looking at scrolls to match people up and sending out PMs notifying people who they were gifting!

 

I was actually thinking about making an online document with alphabetical list of all participants where you would be expected to confirm that yes, you have read the Pm and that you are still up for gifting. It would make it easier on the PM space for all of us, and all of you guys could see if your giftee is playing at the moment.

 

I think this is a great idea.

[Fayne]

Well, with my gold trophy, I managed 4 of my giftee's 6 wishes ... I never ever managed to catch a gold in the cave in my entire scroll life (I've just recently been gifted one ) and I never managed to create a neglected either. On the other hand, I've never spent so much time looking for those evil metallics in the cave like I did this month and I did catch a handful of Blusangs this way - also on my giftee's wishlist, so at least there was *some* win in that.

 

Luckily, there is no pressure regarding finishing off the whole list, it just feels like an accomplishment if you *do* succeed (and makes someone else happy), so I'd try for that every year again! (I just hope next time I'll get a wishlist without those two items )

Haha this. I may have a gold trophy (got it at the end of last year), but I haven't caught a CB gold either... The nhiostrife release was a bit irritating because I saw 4 of them (and 3 or 4 silvers) but couldn't get them. I was actually amazed when I managed to find a really nicely lineaged silver - and successfully trade for it - for my giftee, but that came down to right place at the right time.

 

But yeah, as PointofOrigin said as well, can't judge on trophies as to whether the list can be filled, and given the example of last year I don't think I like that way of tiering - but some sort of presorting definitely helps and the scroll-matching that PointofOrigin and Oasis did worked quite well, for matching me with my giftee at least.

 

 

[Jon_]

Haha this. I may have a gold trophy (got it at the end of last year), but I haven't caught a CB gold either... The nhiostrife release was a bit irritating because I saw 4 of them (and 3 or 4 silvers) but couldn't get them. I was actually amazed when I managed to find a really nicely lineaged silver - and successfully trade for it - for my giftee, but that came down to right place at the right time.

 

But yeah, as PointofOrigin said as well, can't judge on trophies as to whether the list can be filled, and given the example of last year I don't think I like that way of tiering - but some sort of presorting definitely helps and the scroll-matching that PointofOrigin and Oasis did worked quite well, for matching me with my giftee at least.

I like the system as it is this year, as in tiering the lists instead of participants. Having looked at last years wishlists... The Platinum and Gold lists are definitely difficult and I can see how they are hard to fulfill, especially the Platinum ones! The online document sounds like a good idea too. It would definitely help sorting out who's still in and who's not.

[psyrae]

I wasn't around last year, but after looking at the thread, I definitely prefer this year's sorting method, especially with the care Oasis and PointofOrigin took to sort and match people. And the way wishlists were done is great -- having to think about things for different categories to allow a wider variety of wishes and gifts.

 

Yep, this method preferred, not tiering. Especially with how helpful everyone in here is :3

[Le0plurad0n]

It's been a few days and my latest batch of eggs/hatchies to my giftee (Daemonhart) still hasn't been accepted... I sure hope they claim them before they grow up D: I'm starting to get worried.

 

Also, a massive thanks again to my lovely Secret Santa, Tecca <3

 

Edit: She's accepted the dragons now, yay!

Edited February 1, 2014 by Le0plurad0n

[Ruby Eyes]

It's been a few days and my latest batch of eggs/hatchies to my giftee (Daemonhart) still hasn't been accepted... I sure hope they claim them before they grow up D: I'm starting to get worried.

Judging by reports in another thread (New Rare Breeders), daemonhart has gone missing around the 26th or 27th ... The youngest dragon on their scroll is from 26th.

[Le0plurad0n]

Judging by reports in another thread (New Rare Breeders), daemonhart has gone missing around the 26th or 27th ... The youngest dragon on their scroll is from 26th.

Ah, I think I sent them on the 27th or 28th... That would explain it. I just hope she gets back in time to claim them :s

[Nakuru]

I didn't join last year because I didn't like the tiered system. Sure, I have a Gold trophy and I do have a few CB metallics, but all have been lucky catches and I can't get rares regularly not matter how much I try.

 

How it was organized this time was great and I'm really glad I participated ♥

 

It was fun to try to fill as much as possible of my giftee list (though I still lament that I couldn't get a Copper for her despite trying to catch one during all this month) and my gifter was lovely and I'm so happy with my gifts ♥

 

I'll probably join the next time as long as it isn't back to the tiered system.

 

So... in resume, thanks so much to PointOfOrigin and Oasis for organizing this ♥

And to my gifter for all the wonderful gifts and to my giftee, because I'm really, really glad she liked my gifts ♥

[PointOfOrigin]

So I guess you guys like this system. Any suggestions on the spots? I know we need to set up rarity values a bit better and the spots more defined, but is there anything that you'd want to change? More spots for lineages, or more space for CBs... anything really.

 

1. Something rare, 4G or less gold/silver/copper, from 3rd gen to 6G tinsel/shimmer

2. Something a bit less rare, up from 4th gen gold/silver/copper, up from 6G tinsel/shimmer. CB Bluesang // Opal // Trio

3. Something CB, anything Very Uncommon or more common.

4. Something with a lineage. Can be specific or not, anything's fair game on this part.

5. A hatchling, CB anything less than Very uncommon (uncommon, common), lineaged also eligible.

6. Anything!

 

That's the current standing. Personally I wouldn't like to have more spots, but if there are any changes you want to suggest, go for it.

 

haven't gotten my giftees whole wishlist yet and there's one thing on there that I just plain don't think is going to happen,

 

Yeah, I guess that's what happens when you are the only person on site who'd ask for something exotic... like 2nd gen Holly from a Specle throat exotic

 

One thing - I did forget that gifting was happening in the beginning of Jan. I'd already locked myself for a few days by the time I got my list. And I don't normally haunt the trading section, so I missed every time the thread was bumped up. Now, that's not really a big deal because we have a whole month to get gifts, but if thread organizers/helpers were up to it and it wasn't a ridiculous amount of people, perhaps a reminder PM after Christmas but before Jan rolled around to remind people that Secret Santa still exists?

 

Hmmm. I'm more for sending PMs then during the Christmas event when most people are generally online. Sending them after Christmas is IMO pretty similar to sending the PMs with the giftee names.