ANSWERED:Small Terminology Change

[Completely Different]

First, I'd just like to explain the difference between sex and gender, although they're commonly used to mean the same thing.

 

Sex: The physical differences between males and females, including genitalia and other secondary and tertiary characteristics.

 

Gender: The behavioral and social traits usually associated with a sex (e.g. masculine and feminine), although it is separate from a person's physical sex. There are more than two genders, and they can differ significantly from culture to culture.

 

On the view pages we list a dragon's gender, when what we really mean is their sex. Using the term gender isn't really accurate scientifically.* Furthermore, there are many transgender and genderqueer individuals out their who might appreciate using the correct terminology.

 

An alternative suggestion is just to drop the identifier completely, and let "Male/Female" stand on its own, since sex might be easily misunderstood (especially by non-native English speakers) to mean the act.

 

I know this is a fairly minor suggestion, but I'd think it would be a pretty easy change to make.

 

* Yes, I know that Dragon Cave is a fantasy site, but a lot of the breeds and ecology are based on real world science and biology, so I don't think it really matters.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Completely Different

[Rainstarkitty]

I definitely support this. It always irks me to no end when someone says gender when they mean sex.

The main problem I could see people having against this is it seems most people prefer to say gender because society has taught that sex is an unacceptable and even derogatory word to use in public. Completely untrue, of course, but it could cause problems with parents who think their children shouldn't be exposed to such things even though they most likely have seen or heard worse on other websites.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I'll probably re-read this tomorrow morning and realize I'm rambling or don't make sense but oh well. >.>

[KageSora]

It's a minor annoyance to me, but I do agree that it would be nice if it were sex, not gender.

[schmupti]

An easy bypass for any potential sensitivity to the word 'sex' is to simply eliminate 'Gender:' and let 'Male' or 'Female' stand on its own. It doesn't really need the introduction anyway.

[diaveborn]

I would love to see this changed!

 

[Cecona]

Sure, why not?

[whitebaron]

As a non-native speaker I would not like this. Here we got taught that sex (en) = intercourse, and gender (en) = what you call sex in the OP.

 

Researching a little into this, it also seems to be a rather philosophical distinction, with many official places using gender as well. So if anything has to be changed, please dont use "SEX" - use a word that cannot be so easily misunderstood or fail-translated

[Fuzzbucket]

I have to say that while I TOTALLY agree on proper use of language, "sex" is FAR too easily mistranslated. AND - we have a lot of young players who DON'T know that difference and who IMMEDIATELY associate the word sex with sexual activity.

[skauble]

As a non-native speaker I would not like this. Here we got taught that sex (en) = intercourse, and gender (en) = what you call sex in the OP.

 

Researching a little into this, it also seems to be a rather philosophical distinction, with many official places using gender as well. So if anything has to be changed, please dont use "SEX" - use a word that cannot be so easily misunderstood or fail-translated

I think schmupti makes a good point that addresses this - just don't label it anything. If it says "Male" in the little block of statistics, people are going to know that it's a male. Likewise with females. They're pretty self-explanatory terms, so I don't know why they need any kind of categorization.

[whitebaron]

I think schmupti makes a good point that addresses this - just don't label it anything. If it says "Male" in the little block of statistics, people are going to know that it's a male. Likewise with females. They're pretty self-explanatory terms, so I don't know why they need any kind of categorization.

Well, everything else is labelled like:

 

xxxx: yyyy.

 

and I agree that its not necessary, but I think it would look odd to just leave it out there.

[skauble]

Well, everything else is labelled like:

 

xxxx: yyyy.

 

and I agree that its not necessary, but I think it would look odd to just leave it out there.

Something like this seems like it would work without leaving it hanging out there:

 

 

The other stuff is labeled because it needs to be identified. Since this doesn't and it could be tucked in with the other info, I think the change wouldn't be anything that caused any issues.

[DigitalGarden]

Well okay, I won't mind such a little change. But then I'm one of those who see the difference between the discussed words and doesn't laugh at the fact there is "sex" on her ID card. <.<

[MysticTiger]

No. Please no.

 

I'm a native english speaker and I never use the word 'sex' to talk about Male/Female. It might be a locational thing, but I never hear anyone here say it either (Never in school or anywhere else, for that matter). It does get instantly mistaken for a sexual meaning and sounds really, really awkward in plain conversation.

 

I would prefer anything over the use of 'Sex'.

[skauble]

No. Please no.

 

I'm a native english speaker and I never use the word 'sex' to talk about Male/Female. It might be a locational thing, but I never hear anyone here say it either (Never in school or anywhere else, for that matter). It does get instantly mistaken for a sexual meaning and sounds really, really awkward in plain conversation.

 

I would prefer anything over the use of 'Sex'.

But it's going to be used more over time. The expanding study of gender in fields like Sociology and Psychology, and the growing diaogue on the subject that is vastly expanded thanks to the internet has, more and more, demanded increasingly specific use of the terms.

 

The fact is that while this might be the first official suggestion about the matter, I've seen this issue, in regard to our dragons, discussed before. So it's probably safe to say that we'll keep seeing people pop up to point out the difference as it becomes more ingrained in society.

 

I agree with you that we don't need to switch to "sex" which, sadly, carries it's own baggage; simply removing "gender" would seem to resolve the matter. And really this is kind of a rarity on DC - a solution that's pretty much a non-issue since it doesn't affect gameplay, require extra site resources, and the meaning remains perfectly clear.

 

Frankly, I think the elimination of the categorization is worth it just to preempt all the future discussions we'd have to have when people come to point out that this is factually incorrect. lol

[brairtrainer]

Personally as someone who has bred rabbits and done 4H I'm going to state there shouldn't be an issue with useing the word sex which is used in 4H books in the same way that the op is meaning it. Heck, my pedigrees ask for sex of the animal not gender.

 

However, because this is an international site I would recomending doing something like what shows up in Skauble's image. I'd also support changing the description on the pinks to reflect the change in terminology.

[dragongrrl]

As a non-native speaker I would not like this. Here we got taught that sex (en) = intercourse, and gender (en) = what you call sex in the OP.

 

Researching a little into this, it also seems to be a rather philosophical distinction, with many official places using gender as well. So if anything has to be changed, please dont use "SEX" - use a word that cannot be so easily misunderstood or fail-translated

Whitebaron's point is one reason for retaining Gender as the identifier.

 

I also know when I was in high school, (many, long years ago) a number of kids, all native English speakers, thought it was funny to answer the form question, Sex, with "yes" or yes, please" instead of the expected "male" or "female." That might be one reason some forms started asking for Gender, instead of Sex.

[Fuzzbucket]

Whitebaron's point is one reason for retaining Gender as the identifier.

 

I also know when I was in high school, (many, long years ago) a number of kids, all native English speakers, thought it was funny to answer the form question, Sex, with "yes" or yes, please" instead of the expected "male" or "female." That might be one reason some forms started asking for Gender, instead of Sex.

*cough* as one who actually did put that once, I have to agree *blushes*

 

Actually in the thread HERE - are you a boy or a girl, I seem to recall that I put "yes", too ! (and I am not a silly teen, I am a silly 68 y/o )

[purplehaze]

Sadly, the word sex does carry a lot of baggage with it. Maybe it shouldn't but since it does I would hate to see the word sex replace the word gender. I agree with those that say the words male and female really don't need an identifying label like the other information on the view page. So I would be quite happy with a change that lets those words stand alone.

[Pokemonfan13]

With the translation problem with the word "sex" I'd say the only options are to leave it as it is or remove the identifier and let male/female stand alone.

[rumor33]

I'd say no to the switch to sex because of the misinterpretation/transliteration issues, but yes to just dropping the tag. It seems like the kind of thing most people won't even notice and should be super easy to change.

 

Edited to add-

 

I'm not a big fan of skauble's suggested arrangement. Male/female under the clicks just looks a bit out of place for me. what if it were a bit more like this?

 

 

 

Flipping Name/Owner seems like it makes more sense to me to begin with, site info on the right, dragon bio info on the left, plus having the gender right under the name would make it that little bit clear after the tag is gone.

Edited September 18, 2013 by rumor33

[Completely Different]

I understand what everyone is saying about the unfortunate fact that "sex" has another, more generally understood term, but I disagree with the argument that says it should therefore be kept as "gender", because it is incorrect- the distinction is widely recognised by many groups and organizations, including WHO.

 

I have no issue with just removing the label at all, however.

[skauble]

I understand what everyone is saying about the unfortunate fact that "sex" has another, more generally understood term, but I disagree with the argument that says it should therefore be kept as "gender", because it is incorrect- the distinction is widely recognised by many groups and organizations, including WHO.

 

I have no issue with just removing the label at all, however.

Maybe updating the OP with schmupti's suggestion just to lose the tag all together would give an option to those who might reject the suggestion, not because they want to retain "gender", but because they don't want to switch to "sex".

[Natayah]

If you want to roleplay your dragon as another gender than what they are "born with" you are in your full right to do that. We have description pages. Some people have started using sexuality descriptions for dragons with "Gay" in the code instead of using it like its a "naughty code" because its really not.

 

A symbol or breeding abilities have no limitation on what your imagination does. It only impacts offspring. And your dragons can "adopt" their own offspring if you play it that way. Don't let symbols dictate your imagination. They are just pixels... just like the dragons themselves....

[Guillotine]

If you want to roleplay your dragon as another gender than what they are "born with" you are in your full right to do that. We have description pages. Some people have started using sexuality descriptions for dragons with "Gay" in the code instead of using it like its a "naughty code" because its really not.

 

A symbol or breeding abilities have no limitation on what your imagination does. It only impacts offspring. And your dragons can "adopt" their own offspring if you play it that way. Don't let symbols dictate your imagination. They are just pixels... just like the dragons themselves....

...That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, which is that the word "gender" is being used incorrectly to refer to the dragon's sex. This is discussing the removal or change of the word being put in front of the male/female designation, not roleplaying.

 

I'm for removing it entirely for the reasons already mentioned.

[Completely Different]

@ natayah: That's not quite what the suggestion means. The male/female signs are fine. They accurately describe that the dragon's sex, something that's quite necessary for both breeding and world-building (due to the sexual dimorphism many of our dragons possess). However, the point is that dragons aren't born with a gender...they're born with a sex.

 

I know people are quite free to roleplay if they wish, but that doesn't mean the site shouldn't use correct terminology.

 

In other news, I've put schmupti's alternative in the OP, and am about to add a poll.