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Completely Different

ANSWERED:Small Terminology Change

Should the term "sex" be substituted for "gender" on a dragon's view page? (Please read OP first)  

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I was going to suggest putting the male or female right under the name, also, but I really don't like flipping sides for the name. I would leave everything else as it is and just move the male or female tag to put it right under the name of the dragon.

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As a non-native speaker I would not like this. Here we got taught that sex (en) = intercourse, and gender (en) = what you call sex in the OP.

 

Researching a little into this, it also seems to be a rather philosophical distinction, with many official places using gender as well. So if anything has to be changed, please dont use "SEX" - use a word that cannot be so easily misunderstood or fail-translated

Whitebaron's point is one reason for retaining Gender as the identifier. 

 

I also know when I was in high school, (many, long years ago) a number of kids, all native English speakers, thought it was funny to answer the form question, Sex, with "yes" or yes, please" instead of the expected "male" or "female."  That might be one reason some forms started asking for Gender, instead of Sex.

 

I lean toward where whitebaron and dragongrrl are on this. I'd be comfortable with dropping the label or leaving it as is, but would prefer not to switch FROM "Gender" TO "Sex". The word has too much baggage, we have a lot of players for whom English is not their first language, and, frankly, there really shouldn't be a problem with the word "Gender" itself.

 

It's totally fine, of course, for people to roleplay that their dragon is genderfluid or doesn't identify with its biological definition. I know it's not the only reason this was suggested, but since it is part of the discussion, I don't think the label is preventing anyone from doing that.

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I'm quite neutral on the subject, I don't mind the label that is currently in place too much, to be honest. But if changes were to be made, I'd be for removing the label completely, to make things easier. smile.gif

 

Changing the label to "sex" would theoretically be acceptable, but then we have those "joke" dragon breeds, including old gendered Papers in case someone has forgotten those...I know they aren't getting genders any longer, but will "sex" work for those old ones that do exist? Because it would also be incorrect in case of those, what they have would be more appropriate to call gender rather than sex.

 

*scratches head* Removing the label would possibly eliminate all the problems having to do with the topic altogether. So I voted "drop completely".

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As for the poll: I voted other.

Thinking about it, I'd really want there to be no "male, female" written out, but just the symbols like on the view page. smile.gif

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Second-language speaker, so the terms are pretty much the same thing to me. Like the difference between "inspiring" and "inspirational". *SHRUGS* I don't think we need to be so hair-splittingly strict about language use on a site dedicated to pixel dragons.

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I don't think it should be changed at all. If we just dropped the layer, the dragons without a gender would just be "Unknown". Unknown what. The two words are used interchangeably in a lot of things

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I don't see why we need it. The two terms have been interchangeable for a long while. They're pixels too, remember, so not everything really has to be strict science terms. It isn't very bothersome (to me and to others it seems too) and if we do 'drop' the gender term and replace it with nothing the Unknown breeds will be Unknown. That, itself, will be confusing for new users and possibly old users alike.

 

So, I voted to not change it.

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I like the idea of just dropping the identifier. It would be a simple thing to do, and the information would still be there in an understandable format. I don't think there is any reason to move it around either.

 

(I can think of a couple other instances where changing the word gender to sex, such as in the pink action line will probably not work, especially with some of the parental control filters set on high. Even if it is in proper context, that has nothing to do with intercourse, the site can still be blocked. Filters don't look for context. For that matter, some parents I know don't bother to look at context, they just freak out if they see it at all. Also, the use of 'gendered' as a descriptor on the forums for trading and whatnot is used so regularly, that I just don't see it changing even if the identifier was to be changed. But those are wrangles for another day.)

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If we just dropped the layer, the dragons without a gender would just be "Unknown". Unknown what.

This is a really good point.

 

Plus, I think it'd be weird to have everything else labelled, and then have this one thing just sitting out on its own.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Looked up the wikipedia entry for confirmation of what my gut feeling told me.

 

Gender is the range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, the term may refer to biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity.

[...]

Today, the distinction [between the terms sex and gender] is strictly followed in some contexts, especially the social sciences and documents written by the World Health Organization (WHO). In many other contexts, however, even in some areas of social sciences, the meaning of gender has undergone a usage shift to include sex or even to replace the latter word. [...] Gender is now commonly used even to refer to the physiology of non-human animals, without any implication of social gender roles.

 

So, no, I'm against the proposed change. If only - and this is my main objection - because sex also implies the physical recreational act, and some people are very much against using it where 13-year-olds can see it. wink.gif And, since there is no real reason to change it - see my quote above - I think that the con far outweighs the as good as non-existent pro.

Edited by olympe

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I agree this needs to be changed. I actually cringe when people use sex and gender incorrectly or interchangeably, since they are entirely different. Gender is defined by society, where as sex is defined by biology.

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I usually am totally all for particular usage of "sex" and "gender" and it frustrates me when used in the wrong context. But in this case I think it's better left as is. Both saying "sex" and dropping the identifier could be confusing for nonnative speakers who aren't fluent, and also the younger players. I review descriptions a lot and see people (who are most definitely younger) act very immature about their dragons. Plus the points about sensitive parents/filters, and the other points that have been brought up... Yeah, I agree that nothing should be changed.

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In my opinion a change to 'sex' would be a heavenly thing and I am looking towards it, to be honest! Using accurate terminology is welcome in every place. The word 'gender' implifying to dragon's physical appereance simply bothers me - using these words interchangeably is a mere and common error that NEEDS to be changed, as they're two totally different things. wink.gif

Hope this is going to be changed.

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In my opinion a change to 'sex' would be a heavenly thing and I am looking towards it, to be honest! Using accurate terminology is welcome in every place. The word 'gender' implifying to dragon's physical appereance simply bothers me - using these words interchangeably is a mere and common error that NEEDS to be changed, as they're two totally different things. wink.gif

Hope this is going to be changed.

Words mean what we make of them; that's the nice thing about language. Seeing everyone getting so up in arms about one way being "right" when they're so both so commonly used is rather off-putting e___e

 

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of gender (link):

- the state of being male or female

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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No. "Sex" could get caught in some parental filters and potentially block the site for players whose parents use parental controls. Yeah, I think that's too strict but there's no reason to essentially punish players for having strict parents.

 

Also I think it would be confusing to non-English speakers. 'Gender' is not just used to describe social roles, it is also used to describe physical conditions. Not just with living creatures either, quarks (a subatomic particle) has three genders. Gender and sex are pretty much interchangeable with animals, so why not just use the word gender to avoid confusion and parental filters?

 

Another thing to consider is that Sex is generally thought of as Male and Female, whereas there can be a variety of different genders. In the cave we have three genders, not two. We have Male, Female, and Unknown. Unknown may simply be that we, the owners of the dragons, can't tell (due to age or the fact the breed is something other than a typical dragon) or it can really be Neuter, as in the case of mature "Unknown" Neglected Dragons. By indicating gender, rather than sex, we are indicating that we do not really know how that animal identifies itself. If we say it is an 'Unknown' sex we are simply saying we don't know if it's male or female, but if the gender is 'Unknown' then it could be anything, including Neuter, or too young to tell, etc.

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It's sort of crow vs. raven - there's a technical difference, acknowledged in professions and circles in which that technical difference is important, but outside of them, many people are unaware of it and use the words interchangeably.

 

The technical difference between gender and sex is that gender is what's in your head and sex is what's in your pants.

 

"But why are we worried about this technicality when it comes to pixel dragons? Even if the difference affects someone personally, their pixel pets being mislabelled doesn't."

 

Why are we so strict about BSAs making logical sense and not resorting to 'because magic'? Why are we so strict about dragons being anatomically correct and physically feasible? Because this is DC, and that's what we do.

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The technical difference between gender and sex is that gender is what's in your head and sex is what's in your pants.

If only that were true, this discussion would be over already.

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Also I think it would be confusing to non-English speakers. 'Gender' is not just used to describe social roles, it is also used to describe physical conditions. Not just with living creatures either, quarks (a subatomic particle) has three genders. Gender and sex are pretty much interchangeable with animals, so why not just use the word gender to avoid confusion and parental filters?

I'm one of non-English speakers. And yes. The word 'sex' can be confused with other thing... So I think it should be kept it as 'gender'.

Edited by sh20000sh

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No. "Sex" could get caught in some parental filters and potentially block the site for players whose parents use parental controls. Yeah, I think that's too strict but there's no reason to essentially punish players for having strict parents.

That is a VERY good point, given what the UK government is just setting up - such thing will be blocked BY DEFAULT unless you (as in the parents) opt IN. And they are hoping (nudge theory) that most people won't bother to do that... not least as people feel they will be tagged on a list as viewing porn if they opt in. Which given the current UK government - they probably will. sad.gif

 

I well recall the year schools were blocked from pupils researching breast cancer (not to mention sex ed and biology) because breasts are not OK for kids mad.gif

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I'd just like to throw it out there that I am a transgendered individual, and I can't say that the way it's listed on the dragon's pages has ever bothered me in the slightest.

Edited by TikindiDragon

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I'd just like to throw it out there that I am a transgendered individual, and I can't say that the way it's listed on the dragon's pages has never bothered me in the slightestl.

I like you wub.gif

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I support removing the word completely. If nothing else, changing it to 'sex.' I think it's very western-centric to use gender when a ) most of the world has more than 2 genders (and even Europe has a few cultures with 3+ genders) and b ) most of the dragons are male/female or genderless.

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I support removing the word completely. If nothing else, changing it to 'sex.' I think it's very western-centric to use gender when a ) most of the world has more than 2 genders (and even Europe has a few cultures with 3+ genders) and b ) most of the dragons are male/female or genderless.

And Unknown is so rare on DC that just having it in the same place as male/female would indicate to anyone with basic pattern recognition that it's the dragon's sex. I really don't think that "But kids will be confused!" is a good argument against it (and I don't think that "well the dictionary says X" is a good argument either but we don't need a linguistics derail here).

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