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Dragon Release user poll

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Popping in to say that if it were just themes we were voting on, I probably wouldn't vote. A theme doesn't tell me what dragon I'd be getting on my scroll. Just that it'd be red or foxlike or an Eastern. That doesn't tell me enough.

 

I'd rather vote on the image sprite. If I vote on a theme, then see the dragon and regret voting, then what was the point in my vote anyway?

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I saw this brought up in the July release thread (and a few others) and thought it was a nice idea.

 

Basically, the idea is that one release a year has a group of dragons (8-10, maybe?) presented to the users (presumably via the site proper) and we vote on our favorites, and then the top 2-4 breeds are the ones released for that month.

 

Thoughts? I like this idea (obviously), but I'd like to hear any feedback/ways to improve it/objections.

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Going after work, so I'll have to try a search later to see if the original is still around.

 

The problem in the original thread was how to organize a vote that didn't entail TJ picking dragons that were okay for the site and having users vote amongst them as if he was going to pick dragons okay for the site, he might as well do a release for them.

I got the impression that a user choice would have to comply with something TJ thought fit with the site, so we were trying to work within that, but I could be misreading here.

So if we are going to go through this suggestion again, this needs to be something that is worked out and solved.

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i actually thought of this, i figured there would be a poll with the names of the Dragons and the Dragon's sprites in the post. OR we could choose simply by name and the Dragon's appearance could be a complete surprise.

 

The Dragons that are chosen for the Poll would probably be a Collaboration between staff to pick the Dragons and Compile them together, choosing 10 they like in total, and then make the poll.

 

i can make a Chart if your confused.

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I don't think i found anything (my memory's on the fritz because ~*~anxiety~*~), but my search-fu is admittedly pretty weak. If I missed it, just merge the threads.

 

My initial thought was simply posting a single image containing the adults' sprites 2-3 weeks prior to the release date (or however long TJ needs to select/code everything) with the poll and allowing it to run for however long he deems fair, rather than coding all the dragons and adding all their sprites when there's no real point to doing so. If that was already suggested, I'm not sure how else to go about it.

 

...I'll go mock up an idea of what i mean by that, I'm not sure it's very clear.

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i actually thought of this, i figured there would be a poll with the names of the Dragons and the Dragon's sprites  in the post. OR we could choose simply by name and the Dragon's appearance could be a complete surprise.

 

The Dragons that are chosen for the Poll would probably be a Collaboration between staff to pick the Dragons and Compile them together, choosing 10 they like in total, and then make the poll.

 

i can make a Chart if your confused.

I don't think that will get us past what Sock is saying - that TJ would be choosing the ones for us to vote between (he isn't about to let us vote for ones he isn't OK with) so it wouldn't be THAT much of a choice.

 

Actually I'd rather keep the surprise element.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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They could always be breeds he's on the fence about bringing in that otherwise fit the site guidelines.

 

And I would like most releases to be surprises too, but having one that isn't won't hurt anyone.

 

e: MOCK-UP GET (tell me if it's too huge)

 

The dragons are all in a single image rather than each having their own image.

 

user posted image

 

e2: VVV If so, this thread likely doesn't matter and I'm not going to object to it being deleted wholesale.

Edited by Guillotine

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I don't think i found anything (my memory's on the fritz because ~*~anxiety~*~), but my search-fu is admittedly pretty weak. If I missed it, just merge the threads.

My memory may be on the fritz, too, but if it is working correctly it may be that TJ closed that discussion thread for the reason that Sock mentioned.

 

Understand that I am not against this idea. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to vote on a release once in a long while -- certainly not every release! I'm just not sure how to get around TJ's objection.

Edited by purplehaze

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There are a couple of things I really miss in the cave. Like additional biomes full of new dragons. wink.gif Or true wyrms (Tanglewyrm, Frostbite Wyrm (with some edits?, Sand Wyrm), a couple more multi-winged dragons, or si-legged dragons, or multi-headed ones. Or dragons that don't really fit in anywhere, like the Stratos Dragon. (All of these can be found on the completed list.)

 

Generally, I prefer brightly colored or multicolored dragons, like the Prism Dragon.

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I just don't get it why some of those utterly gorgeous dragons that I've been waiting for since years are sitting in the list, and save for a few, many new dragons were not as per expectation. (they were not bad per se, but it's disheartening to see not even one of the dragons I had hoped for had made it to cave yet, and they're quite old on the list.

 

So, yes, an opinion poll is definitely required.

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What I was thinking of, is leave TJ out of it. We would just somehow vote for the ones we liked ourselves. Heck, we could probably just somehow turn the "Completed List favorites" thread into a sort of voting thing.

 

And no, I do not want them released right after they're picked. They would just be added to the line-up of to-be-released dragons that I assume TJ has. Or doesn't. I don't know, I'm not him.

 

Because yes, personally I think there are tons of older dragons that I would love to vote for and finally get them off the list. If TJ has problems with dragons, he can deal with that after we pick a final 3 or something.

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(I found the old-new thread [the original was cleaned - sorry about that!], so I merged with that. o3o )

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I would love there to be a vote. I think we'd finally get more easterns then! tongue.gif

 

I don't really care if it's a vote from the entire completed list or just a vote from a few TJ selects. I do think cleaning up the completed list would make it easier, though (and solve a few other problems in the process, like freeing up artwork that's tied down and never going to be used).

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I do like this part that was quoted in the OP:

HOWEVER if we weren't voting on a dragon and we voted on a common theme that several completed dragons could apply to (Example: the voting options were yellow dragon, eastern dragon, animal-like dragon and metallic dragon) then it would give us some control over what's released while it still being a surprise. It would also give a chance for multiple dragons of the same theme to be released at once. (Example: Of the above options, eastern dragon wins. TJ looks at the completed dragons and decides 3 easterns are to his his liking and releases them together as a set.) Doing a theme would also not punish the loosing dragons since we wouldn't have known what they were as long as the themes were broad. We could even have the themes be submitted by us users and have the most frequently submitted be what we vote on.

 

I would LOVE that! I think it still allows for some surprise, but choosing a theme and voting based off of it makes the most sense imo.

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I do like this part that was quoted in the OP:

 

HOWEVER if we weren't voting on a dragon and we voted on a common theme that several completed dragons could apply to (Example: the voting options were yellow dragon, eastern dragon, animal-like dragon and metallic dragon) then it would give us some control over what's released while it still being a surprise. It would also give a chance for multiple dragons of the same theme to be released at once. (Example: Of the above options, eastern dragon wins. TJ looks at the completed dragons and decides 3 easterns are to his his liking and releases them together as a set.) Doing a theme would also not punish the loosing dragons since we wouldn't have known what they were as long as the themes were broad. We could even have the themes be submitted by us users and have the most frequently submitted be what we vote on.

 

I would LOVE that! I think it still allows for some surprise, but choosing a theme and voting based off of it makes the most sense imo.

That's mine from the first page. Glad it is liked.

 

I really do support a user-driven release, but I honestly don't see a better way to do it then a broad theme vote. I know most people would rather vote directly for what they want, but I really feel that has huge backfire potential. As an artist, I can day there is more red-tape to getting something released then the public realizes and I'm not sure how much more then that I am allowed to say. I think that proves my point.

 

I do like your idea of using the Completed List Favorites as a broad way of see what breeds are picking up interest from users, but there are so few who regularly post there it really is useless. It takes years to get just a few pages and many people vote for so many each round that each vote looses weight and it becomes hard to navigate/calculate. If we made a newer version that was limited to a top ten that users actually visited regularly, that would be the best thing for this but since it's user dependent I doubt it would work.

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Personally, I'd like if he gives us a few eggs to vote on, all that will be released, and we choose priority. That;d be quite fun biggrin.gif

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I like the idea of picking out specific kinds of dragons (Easterns, westerns, pygmies, etc) and then having TJ pick breeds on his own that fit into that specific category.

That way it's still a surprise, but users still get the kinds of dragons they've been looking forward to having. C: (And maybe there would be less "I wish there were more of ______ in-cave!")

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(And maybe there would be less "I wish there were more of ______ in-cave!")

I would literally barf drakes, wyms, lindwurms, and easterns all over the place :Y

 

Literally. It would be very gross. I'm not sure how I would go about eating all of them to do such a feat.

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(And maybe there would be less "I wish there were more of ______ in-cave!")

... I would like that ...

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If we made a newer version that was limited to a top ten that users actually visited regularly, that would be the best thing for this but since it's user dependent I doubt it would work.

I'd support this kind of thing, especially if it also indicated whatever theme/ breed of the month that users were supposed to be voting on. I'd also like to see maybe a list of past releases so that users know what kinds of dragons from the list are already in cave. I know this is really kind of specific, but it also helps to cut down on the "I want a [example feature/breed] in cave."

 

For example, the thread could have users choose dragons based on their their top five favorite breeds (wyvern, western,etc.), top five favorite dragon characteristics (markings, horns, wing styles, etc.), and their top five color favorites from the list. So, they are limited to 15 choices per person overall. And then there would be a tally or something and from there, the choices are eliminated to get the favorite breeds to be released. And then they would cycle into TJ's planned releases (I also support Eef's idea of not having them immediately go into the cave after they are picked.)

 

[i used 'favorite' too many times, but I don't care.]

 

I am not exactly sure how many people know about the Completed List Favorites thread, but it would help to direct their attention to it.

Edited by Jazeki

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edit: I didn't read a lot of stuff so I think I'm repeating ideas - sorry!

 

The problem in the original thread was how to organize a vote that didn't entail TJ picking dragons that were okay for the site and having users vote amongst them as if he was going to pick dragons okay for the site, he might as well do a release for them.

I don't agree with TJ's logic here. Surely there are more suitable-for-release dragons than are able to be released at the current rate. I thought that was the entire meaning of the word "backlog" that people use when they talk about the completed list. "Might as well do a release for them" only makes sense to me if every dragon "okay for the site" is getting released now anyway.

 

And voting doesn't have to mean we just completely forget about the ones that didn't win the vote. The vote could be "what do you want to see in-cave next" with the idea that the ones that didn't win could potentially be released, just later on. I've seen that type of vote work successfully on another game. Yes, there would be the worry about secrecy, and maybe if none of the releases were secret that could be bad but I don't feel like sacrificing *some* secrecy to get users more involved with this aspect of the site would have to be a bad thing.

 

I guess TJ's logic would make more sense if there's a lot of overhead in picking out something from the completed list (although that doesn't make sense to me either) or something I'm not thinking of. I had some random thoughts - maybe he could see if there are some much-repeated dragons in the "completed list favorites" thread... or maybe even users could organize our own unofficial bracket tournament thing or something like it to narrow down to fifty or thirty choices that TJ could then pick ten or whatever from, if it would be a help.

Edited by diaveborn

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edit: I didn't read a lot of stuff so I think I'm repeating ideas - sorry!

 

 

I don't agree with TJ's logic here.  Surely there are more suitable-for-release dragons than are able to be released at the current rate.  I thought that was the entire meaning of the word "backlog" that people use when they talk about the completed list.  "Might as well do a release for them" only makes sense to me if every dragon "okay for the site" is getting released now anyway. 

 

And voting doesn't have to mean we just completely forget about the ones that didn't win the vote.  The vote could be "what do you want to see in-cave next" with the idea that the ones that didn't win could potentially be released, just later on.  I've seen that type of vote work successfully on another game.  Yes, there would be the worry about secrecy, and maybe if none of the releases were secret that could be bad but I don't feel like sacrificing *some* secrecy to get users more involved with this aspect of the site would have to be a bad thing.

 

I guess TJ's logic would make more sense if there's a lot of overhead in picking out something from the completed list (although that doesn't make sense to me either) or something I'm not thinking of.  I had some random thoughts - maybe he could see if there are some much-repeated dragons in the "completed list favorites" thread... or maybe even users could organize our own unofficial bracket tournament thing or something like it to narrow down to fifty or thirty choices that TJ could then pick ten or whatever from, if it would be a help.

I'm a leetle confused over this, so I will give more background:

 

In order to ensure that dragons were acceptable to actually be used as well as to make voting something that could be handled and not be overwhelming and to make sure all users who wanted to vote could (ie adding polls back to the cave so it wasn't just forum users voting), the idea was for TJ to pick a set of dragons for users to vote on. Like 3 - 5. Then based on that vote, the dragon/s with the most votes would be released. BUT that put TJ in the position of picking out dragons acceptable for release, so then what happens to the dragons with the least votes? They've already been approved acceptable for the site but now just because they didn't get the most votes, they shouldn't be released? His point was if he was going to narrow down for a handful of dragons that he would/could release on site, then it doesn't make sense to just not release some. Then the poll isn't really a user choice. It's just users picking the order in which dragons are released and I really don't think that's what anyone really wants out of a user choice.

(And even with themes, coming up with themes means he has to pick a handful of dragons that fit each theme and again, if he's going to get a set ready and approved for release, why not just release all the dragons that are ready for release rather than having to pick some that are ready and then end up never using them?)

(And ouch - can you imagine being an artist, seeing/knowing one of your dragons has finally been given a chance!? And then it didn't get the most votes so now it has no chance. D: )

 

So yeah, probably the best bet of getting any kind of user choice is just a large user poll but the list is so big that how do you reasonably handle such a poll while also having users actually see it and be able to vote in it if they want? How can this be handled in any official and fair capacity?

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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I don't get the impression that the dragons that lose the poll/ bracket tournament are never released. They just would not be released that month that happens to be users' choice.

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Then the poll isn't really a user choice. It's just users picking the order in which dragons are released and I really don't think that's what anyone really wants out of a user choice.

Well there'd be no certainty they'd be released, because of the big backlog of other, also-acceptable choices, but still, I think people could get excited about picking order of release if it was presented in a clear way. When I say I've seen that work in another game, I mean that it was that the rest would get released later and it was said that we were only picking out what would be first/next, and people got really excited about being able to influence what came next.

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I don't get the impression that the dragons that lose the poll/ bracket tournament are never released. They just would not be released that month that happens to be users' choice.

Then how is it user's choice? It's just user's order. Which I guess is cool if that's what people want, but I know I'd kind of want an actual choice if I was going to participate in a thing like this. o.o

 

With themes we thought the category could be big enough that TJ could just make themes and then pick out dragons, but I do suppose that involves making sure there are actually dragons that can be released for that theme, so...

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