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rumor33

Dragon Release user poll

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I had a thought as I was looking at all the lovely dragons in the completed section.

 

What if, once a year, we have a user poll to decide what dragon gets released?

 

To avoid it being complete chaos the vote would be limited to ten dragons that TJ picks out of the completed section, so that we can be sure that all the options are ones that TJ considers 'releasable', nothing that doesn't fit in the cave or would be to much to code. Then after the vote TJ releases the top one (or two-three, up to TJ).

 

The vote could even be done as a cave event as to not leave out people who don't go on the forum. You know how there is a little blurb at the top of your scroll page when there is an event or a dragon is sick? There could be one of those that links to the poll. The results could even be kept secret so the release is a big surprise.

 

The poll could be held in like, mid July, take a week and then released in August. That should be enough time apart as to not interfere with other site events yet allow the max number of "regular" users to participate. I don't know how long it takes TJ to code a new Dragon but I'd think a week is enough time.

 

Just a thought that I figured I'd float out there.

 

Aangs-sister had this to add

 

HOWEVER if we weren't voting on a dragon and we voted on a common theme that several completed dragons could apply to (Example: the voting options were yellow dragon, eastern dragon, animal-like dragon and metallic dragon) then it would give us some control over what's released while it still being a surprise. It would also give a chance for multiple dragons of the same theme to be released at once. (Example: Of the above options, eastern dragon wins. TJ looks at the completed dragons and decides 3 easterns are to his his liking and releases them together as a set.) Doing a theme would also not punish the loosing dragons since we wouldn't have known what they were as long as the themes were broad. We could even have the themes be submitted by us users and have the most frequently submitted be what we vote on.

 

I also feel that a vote on theme instead of exact dragons would eliviate some of the problems people have mentioned. Thoughts?

 

Suggestions on this idea need to take into account that TJ has said no to certain versions of this because doing this would be a lot of work for little sense. Please think about the below and make suggestions on how to avoid this problem:

 

To make the poll doable, it would make sense to only vote on a few dragons. However, voting on only a few dragons means that TJ would have to decide on the few dragons. That means he'd be finding dragons to get ready for a release meaning they would have to fit in on the site. BUT if he's going to pick a few dragons ready for release, why shouldn't he release them all? And if they're all going to get released, what does a vote on them do?

People have alternatively suggested users voting on more general topics, such as a themed release, without seeing dragons. However, that presents the same problem that TJ at least has to have a few dragons in mind for each release because you wouldn't want a theme that ends up with no dragons appropriate for the cave.

So far, the only alternative that hasn't been commented on (that I know of) is voting on all the concepts at once - but with how many people have troubles even viewing the completed list, I have to wonder how many people would be able to participate in such a large poll. (I don't know any numbers, so this may be a moot worry.)

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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I like this a lot, there are a bunch of awsome dragons on completed requests, and some that are currently progressing happy.gif

Edited by Anavi_Ivy

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I actually had a thought similar to this before, but unfortunately, its been proven that polls have a great flaw about them: sometimes they are very biased!

 

Because every dragon was created by a person (or more!), some people will pick a dragon according to the artist they favor, not necessarily which dragon is better. This was the number one complaint a lot of users had with the first Christmas raffle: that the winners were based on favoritism because users on the forums could show off and solicit votes while people who didn't could only hope for the best.

 

From what any long-standing DC user has seen, is that everyone has very very very different varying degrees in play style, opinions, etc. so a poll won't really make choosing easier, only harder because people WILL debate over it (not saying thats a bad thing). Its like deciding where to eat for lunch between 10 adults.

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I'm kind of torn about it. Although yeah, it would be kind of neat, what happens to the ones NOT picked? Are they to be trashed, or are they going to be released eventually? A problem with releasing them eventually that is that you are essentially announcing what five different releases are going to be, if not necessarily when.

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To be honest i love the element of surprise we get with each release. This being the sole reason I don't want something like a poll happening. It WOULD be nice to see more dragons from spriters that are not that well-known in the community though.

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You have an excellent point Xythus. I missed the first raffle (I seem to always miss the holiday events), so I don't know ho w bad it may have gotten. Though I am continually surprised by how willing people are to fight over games on the internet.

 

While I don't think the problem is so much that people would vote for an artist over the art (I think that people should be able to vote based on any condition they like), I do have a problem with the fighting/resentment that might lead to.

 

Maybe there could be a rule against forum campaigning? I don't know what percentage of site users also go on the forums, but making it a non-forum event should cut down on that kind of favoritism, no?

 

I would hate to have a hand in an idea that will only lead to strife, so by all means let this go ignored if we are really afraid that would happen. Just wanted to sail an idea that might be fun of people can help from taking it to personally.

 

A problem with releasing them eventually that is that you are essentially announcing what five different releases are going to be, if not necessarily when.

 

I can see that something like this would show what dragons TJ is partial too, but in my mind those not chosen would simply go back onto the completed list, to be released whenever TJ feels like it.

 

To be honest i love the element of surprise we get with each release. This being the sole reason I don't want something like a poll happening. It WOULD be nice to see more dragons from spriters that are not that well-known in the community though.

 

A lot of this idea does come out of wanting to see more dragons from the completed list. I can get that a lot of people do like the complete surprise of a release, thats one of the reasons I'd think of this as a once a year thing, people would still have about 11 releases a year that are complete surprises.

Edited by rumor33

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Sorry if I sound mean, but I don't believe for a second TJ would consider this. (Even though I would support this idea otherwise.)

 

TJ is all about secrecy when it comes to what does/doesn't get release. Dragons have to be pulled from the public for over 30 days, usually much more, before release just so the user base will 'forget' about them. Even the ones that do require a theme for release (AKA holidays) need to be done in secret and submitted to TJ just so they will be a surprise when released.

 

HOWEVER if we weren't voting on a dragon and we voted on a common theme that several completed dragons could apply to (Example: the voting options were yellow dragon, eastern dragon, animal-like dragon and metallic dragon) then it would give us some control over what's released while it still being a surprise. It would also give a chance for multiple dragons of the same theme to be released at once. (Example: Of the above options, eastern dragon wins. TJ looks at the completed dragons and decides 3 easterns are to his his liking and releases them together as a set.) Doing a theme would also not punish the loosing dragons since we wouldn't have known what they were as long as the themes were broad. We could even have the themes be submitted by us users and have the most frequently submitted be what we vote on.

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We had this topic before. Unfortunately, it got a no from TJ because we couldn't really work out how this would work (explained more below). However, I must have cleaned it back before we were leaving closed suggestions, so I have no proof. =p

 

I did support this in the past. This had a lot of user and mod support. The old topic had been working on several ideas, such as:

  • How to narrow the results - the completed list is long

    -Picking a handful and then having users vote on this (but then what happens to those that lost the vote?)

    -Having users vote on themes and picking dragons that relate to those themes

  • Possibly keeping releases still a surprise doing this

    -Having users vote on themes and picking dragons that relate to those themes

    --Themes such as colors, species, element, etc.

Here's what I had set up before:

 

As a one time thing or rare surprise, this could be cool. With a few restrictions/special set-ups, such as:

-There are a lot of dragons on the completed list. A lot. alot.png If this were to go down, I'd say TJ would pick a few, 5-10 maybe, dragons from it that you all would vote on.

-Closed topic and hidden vote numbers, if possible. (That way, users would still get to pick the dragon, but it would be more of a surprise which was which when they came out.) Warns and post edits for people who give away what they vote for.

-Only the adults are shown for the vote. (That way, users would still get to pick the dragon, but it would be more of a surprise which was which when they came out.)

-Once the vote is over, the topic is deleted (the dragons already having been removed from the completed list, at least for the time being).

-Probably no artist credits shown in the vote.

 

Although people were wondering if we could bring back on site polls for such a thing.

 

So the big problem was that the completed list is huge and the only workable way would be to present users with a set of dragons in some way and vote on them to determine the release. However, to present users with a set of dragons means that they would be choosing from a set of dragons that were all suitable for release. So it would just make more sense to have all the dragons released at some point. Basically the only purpose of the poll would be to show which ones were more popular at the time, even though all were suitable for release (and it wouldn't make sense to choose dragons suitable for release then just never release them).

 

So, as you move forward with this topic, keep that in mind, because a solution to that is what would be needed to make this workable.

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^No worries Aangs-sister, To me you came off honest and not mean.

 

I think that voting on theme over dragon is a great idea. It takes away the problem of resentment and favoritism, maintains the surprise, shields those not chosen from exposure, but still allows user input. The only thing I would want is that those chosen be from the completed list originally. I know quite a few people have expressed a desire for more of certain types (eastern and drakes stick out in my mind) so I think there would still be enough interest for this idea to work on a yearly basis.

 

(edited because I fail at typing)

Edited by rumor33

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I used to be a big fan of this idea, but I listened to a lot of the reasons against it, and my opinions have swayed somewhat. In particular, its what TJ himself said about the idea, which I believe, which was that people are mostly going to vote for the "best" ideas (e.g. best art, most interesting concept) which in most case he already agrees with, so they'll be released eventually.

 

I definitely see where TJ is coming from with this argument, although I still think it would be a fun event, especially since I think there's a big difference between having a dragon you loved released now, as opposed to in five years, which with such a long list is definitely an option.

 

I think for the sake of giving TJ some flexibility with what gets in the cave, limiting favouratism and preventing the question of "what happens to the losers", we do a theme vote.

 

Have you been wishing to see more fierce and vicious dragons in the cave? Or maybe you feel the colour yellow is terribly under-represented. Perhaps "myth based" dragons are you jam, or you think some metal-based dragons besides gold and silver would be neat.

 

I think this would be a lot of fun. It would really get the community excited, help share what type of dragons folks are interested in, and I bet there could be a lot of interesting discussion and guessing on what dragons could fit into each category.

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I'd support the theme vote. smile.gif

 

I do, personally, consider Easterns under-represented. On the other hand, there's this certain Eastern on the completed list that I'd dearly love to see released, so I might be a little biased..... Ok, a *lot* biased. xd.png

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Honestly, I'd rather have another mod mayhem where the mods get to pick the dragons. Mods are users too and they happened to pick some great ones last time.

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I think the idea of voting for a theme would be much less problematic, mainly because if we were voting between specific dragons, the ones not chosen may not ever be released. Also, the surprise factor is a huge part of the fun when it becomes to releases.

But I'd love to have a say in which dragons are released!

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I like this idea, and agree that voting on a theme rather than on individual dragons would be the way to go. For example, there are several pygmy breeds that I desperately want to see released (see signature, heh), and I reallyreallyreally want more Drakes in the cave so long as we can't breed them with regular dragons (still maintaining that it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to allow integration, but whatever. Still want the new breeds).

 

I really wish we could have the option to change our votes in the poll - say I think another straight-up Western dragon would be really cool, but then I read all the comments and wind up agreeing that the cave really needs more variety in its Drakes. Too late, I've already voted! I suspect the problem is more to do with the forum software than anything TJ can do, but it would be nice if there WAS a way to fix that.

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^ on the point of the forum vote

 

A forum vote on theme would work, but I still think it would be cool if it was programmed into the site itself. that way every user could vote and not just those who frequent/lurk the forum

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Ohhhh, I see what you're saying. That could be cool. Even cooler if we could change our vote or give a top three that we could alter. laugh.gif

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*coughs*

 

I'm sorry, I just don't want this to get ignored:

 

So the big problem was that the completed list is huge and the only workable way would be to present users with a set of dragons in some way and vote on them to determine the release. However, to present users with a set of dragons means that they would be choosing from a set of dragons that were all suitable for release. So it would just make more sense to have all the dragons released at some point. Basically the only purpose of the poll would be to show which ones were more popular at the time, even though all were suitable for release (and it wouldn't make sense to choose dragons suitable for release then just never release them).

 

Because that's the problem TJ09 had with this when it was suggested before.

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Sock, do you think TJ would be cool with it if we voted only a theme, rather than on a selection of certain dragons?

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i like this idea. because, no offense or anything but this is the second month in a row that earthgirl has gotten a release. not that im sure they didnt deserve it, or that the dragons they design arnt beautiful, but it feels kinda like favoritism because they're a super active, older member. and this way, it would feel less so, since the dragon won by popular vote

 

however, since its quite difficult to acheve this, why not do it like how we elect presidents in america?

 

like, the dragons are broken down into biomes, or something, and we vote on which dragon we like, and TJ can look at the results and pick from the ones that won?

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Sock, do you think TJ would be cool with it if we voted only a theme, rather than on a selection of certain dragons?

We suggested this late time, so I would say we would still need to work out how to make such a poll work so that general themes can be used so that TJ won't have to have certain dragons in mind before a poll and to make sure that TJ will still have plenty of suitable dragons to choose from.

 

I guess it would be fairly easy to do colors or biome location and still have lots of dragons to choose from. I'm not sure how well more specific themes would work, though. o.o

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We suggested this late time, so I would say we would still need to work out how to make such a poll work so that general themes can be used so that TJ won't have to have certain dragons in mind before a poll and to make sure that TJ will still have plenty of suitable dragons to choose from.

 

I guess it would be fairly easy to do colors or biome location and still have lots of dragons to choose from. I'm not sure how well more specific themes would work, though. o.o

I think that makes sense. Perhaps there could be more than one poll, to define a couple of the next year's releases?

 

There could be... say, biome locations for one poll. Standard: Alpine, Coast, Desert, Forest, Jungle, Volcano.

 

Then there could be a 'types'. So Basic (the things that can breed with everything), Pygmies, Drakes, Two-Headed, Unbreedables.

 

Then there could be one on more design elements: Eastern, Wyvern, Lindwurm, Fluffy (sorry), Four-legged, Serpentine, etc.

 

There could, depending on popular demand, be one on colors, too. I'd want to see 'Rainbow' represented there. laugh.gif

 

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Depends on the theme.

 

I mean, if something like "Drake" or "eastern" or "pygmie" was a theme, that wouldn't be difficult at all, since they all stand out pretty clearly due to their specific look.

 

Behaviours might be a little harder, but I don't think it would be too difficult, at least if it was general like "sweet-natured dragons" or "dangerous dragons" since they tend to look it. More subtle themes would rely on going through each of the descriptions, which I recognise could be harder, but I don't think it would be impossible.

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I'm sorry Sock, didn't mean to ignore you. That concern was one of the reasons the discussion was moving more toward themes than individual dragons.

 

I think themes that would work would need to be broad so that TJ has enough room to still pick and choose.

 

Maybe we can all suggest themes and every user poll TJ decides which we get to vote between? I kinda think it would be a bit boring if the vote was between biomes, but a vote between, say Eastern, Unbreedable, Wyvern, and Hybred might be cool.

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