All Day New Releases + Changes with Ratio

[purplehaze]

To solve cave-blocker problems, another idea is to Retire certain eggs. Just like what happened with the Frills, maybe it's time to retire certain unpopular breeds. This would possibly lower the ratio problem a bit (?).

No, I don't think that is the solution we are seeking! Even the most unloved breeds have their fans and avid collectors. Most of them are not really disliked, but are just not in demand to the degree that they are supplied by the cave. Therefore it seems to me that the supply needs to be adjusted to more nearly meet the demand, rather than just doing away with those breeds.

 

Were you here when the Frills were discontinued? There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, in spite of them being a cave blocker up until that time.

[demonicvampiregirl]

To solve cave-blocker problems, another idea is to Retire certain eggs. Just like what happened with the Frills, maybe it's time to retire certain unpopular breeds. This would possibly lower the ratio problem a bit (?).

Oh no no retiring breeds. I was around for the Old Pinks and Frills being retired and I wish they never was. Even if they do not look their best they are still wonderful dragons that I would love to have more of and am sad to see that newer players will never be able to obtain them.

 

Retiring isn't a solution it will probably do the worst thing and make people leave DC that love those breeds. I knew someone who was working on a long even gen Water Horse lineage and someone was wanting to do away with them because they was messing up her game style.

 

So no I don't agree to retiring breeds just because they are simply cave blockers at the moment. Plus with the new system of being able to catch ER eggs and fill up all your slots within hours helps now and within about 3 days you can redo that. I do it all the time to help out the ratios and get more of the dragons I don't have many of so I'd be sad to see them go myself.

[MysticTiger]

I am ONLY talking about the every minute drop, not them being available for 24 hours.  And I don't know if you were around for the canopy/nocturne/electric release, but that one is a PERFECT example of what I am talking about.  They quickly became undesired, and are still blockers years later.

I wasn't around for that release (I was a member of the site, I just wasn't active on the forum so I didn't know of new releases for sometimes months later). But, the difference between then and now is:

1) People have more egg slots.

2) People have advanced notice to clear those egg slots.

3) There are more people

 

Think of the releases like a Pizza. Every release is one large sized Pizza.

 

At first it was fine because there were ten people, only five of those showed up and not everyone could eat the same size slice because some of them had already eaten. Now, you have the same pizza, but now all ten people show up because they knew when to be there and not to eat beforehand. And now they all want the same size slice. But because the Pizza isn't big enough for everyone to get the same large slice, it's first come first serve. And instead of just ordering another pizza to fix this easily fixable problem, you decide just to stick with the one pizza. The first four get large slices, the next three get small, two get tiny slivers of a piece and the last person got nothing.

 

I wouldn't mind simply INCREASING the number of releases. Having it a constant-drop is my ideal, but I don't mind compromising to, well, simply ordering another pizza. It wouldn't fix the problem as well as a holiday-drop style release would, but it definitely would solve the problem much better then the current.

Edited September 8, 2013 by MysticTiger

[Nectaris]

I wasn't around for that release (I was a member of the site, I just wasn't active on the forum so I didn't know of new releases for sometimes months later). But, the difference between then and now is:

1) People have more egg slots.

2) People have advanced notice to clear those egg slots.

3) There are more people

 

Think of the releases like a Pizza. Every release is one large sized Pizza.

 

At first it was fine because there were ten people, only five of those showed up and not everyone could eat the same size slice because some of them had already eaten. Now, you have the same pizza, but now all ten people show up because they knew when to be there and not to eat beforehand. And now they all want the same size slice. But because the Pizza isn't big enough for everyone to get the same large slice, it's first come first serve. And instead of just ordering another pizza to fix this easily fixable problem, you decide just to stick with the one pizza. The first four get large slices, the next three get small, two get tiny slivers of a piece and the last person got nothing.

I don't think you are getting the fact that I am FOR 24 hour exclusive releases, just not the one minute drops. That will likely more than triple the amount of eggs available. I am NOT advocating for things to remain the same, I just think you are taking it too far.

[MysticTiger]

I don't think you are getting the fact that I am FOR 24 hour exclusive releases, just not the one minute drops.  That will likely more than triple the amount of eggs available.  I am NOT advocating for things to remain the same, I just think you are taking it too far.

I think I edited my post after you posted, so i'll just add here what I said there:

 

I wouldn't mind simply INCREASING the number of releases. Having it a constant-drop is my ideal, but I don't mind compromising to, well, simply ordering another pizza. It wouldn't fix the problem as well as I think a holiday-drop style release would, but it definitely would solve the problem much better then the current.

 

I am COMPLETELY against retiring breeds. I loved the Frills and Bright Pinks. The retirement of those breeds had nothing to do with TJ or being blockers. And this post has NOTHING to do with Cave Blockers at all. That's a completely different subject, of which I am support of Seasonal changes for that. I'm talking about spreading the wealth of the new releases.

Edited September 8, 2013 by MysticTiger

[Pokemonfan13]

Rather than retiring, older breeds that are less popular should be made slightly less common. A few tweaks to the ratios should help the blocker problem a lot. But that's rather off topic to this thread.

 

 

 

A solid 24 hour drop like the holidays is completely unnecessary. The holiday drop is the way it is because everyone needs to be able to get their eggs or they won't ever be able to get them. Personally I think the first day not counting to the ratios would help enough.

[Nectaris]

I think I edited my post after you posted, so i'll just add here what I said there:

 

I wouldn't mind simply INCREASING the number of releases. Having it a constant-drop is my ideal, but I don't mind compromising to, well, simply ordering another pizza. It wouldn't fix the problem as well as a holiday-drop style release would, but it definitely would solve the problem much better then the current.

Yeah, I didn't see your edit. I just would rather take it easy and see how a small(er) change goes, rather than risk the pendulum swinging the other way, for the release I mentioned earlier really was far worse than the lack of eggs in the current releases.

 

I will never forget how happy people were to see a PEBBLE in the cave after that release.

 

And I am COMPLETELY against breeds retiring. I LOVE albinos, but I know many who don't. I would hate to see them go because other people think they are a problem.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Nectaris

[MysticTiger]

Yeah, I didn't see your edit.  I just would rather take it easy and see how a small(er) change goes, rather than risk the pendulum swinging the other way, for the release I mentioned earlier really was far worse than the lack of eggs in the current releases.

I agree that having a gradual change to "test the waters", so to speak, is better than all at once.

 

Although, I still think the release you're referring to can't be used as a reference for today because of change of gameplay and the addition of players since then.

Edited September 8, 2013 by MysticTiger

[Fuzzbucket]

To solve cave-blocker problems, another idea is to Retire certain eggs. Just like what happened with the Frills, maybe it's time to retire certain unpopular breeds. This would possibly lower the ratio problem a bit (?).

NO.

 

NO NO NO NO.

 

I still regret not having more of those, and new players mind not being able to get them at all (and don't even mention the old pinks...).

 

But the new eggs ARE permanent. Maybe it's hard to get them on the day of issue - but that's not the end of the world. I don't think we need them dropping solid for 24 hours, but maybe not mix them in as soon, so that people in other parts of the world have an easier time of it. And the idea of not counting for the ratios for the firs t24 hours is brilliant. But the standard drops - 5/10 minutes - is enough, I think.

[skauble]

well then how does the introduction of new eggs work, normally? the fact that it isnt just a solid 24 hours of the new dragons before they tapper out into the normal drop rations does seem weird to me.

 

because obviously people will horde the new ones (like I did, no shame), since they are harder to get after the first day drop. heck, they're already harder to get now, i was just very lucky to get my scroll filled, since i was at work most of the day.

 

i don't think they need to be dropped in every minute but an adjustment from new to old needs to be made or there will be people on here who cant get up at midnight to go cave diving, and cant waist hours on end waiting for the lucky click without the new dragons, and its frustrating.

But see, this reflects the persistent idea that everyone should end up with some of the new eggs on the first day. Why?

 

I don't say that to be mean to anyone or want people not to have fun, I'm just saying that I think there's a DC mindset about this that comes from two places:

 

1. The fear that those eggs won't be catchable later.

 

I really do think that's more indicative of a cave wide problem, as opposed to a release problem, and should be addressed as such by whatever fix TJ might make.

 

2. That's the way releases have been in the past and so there's something wrong if it's not that way in the future.

 

The second one there is what I think keeps refocusing us on release day fixes instead of cave-wide adjustments. Personally, I think it's reasonable to shift people's view to a long game approach, provided that the other issues get resolved. But even then I think it's going to take time and and influx of new players who aren't connected to the old release format to start to ease away the idea that everyone needs to walk away with new eggs on the day they're released.

 

I know that there are people who say that slower players will never ever be able to get them if they don't get them the first day. But I'm not sure how anyone can accurately predict that. If we fixed the other problems with the cave and, in addition, introduced new dragons each month, the sheer influx of breeds will split everyone's focus so much that there will more chances to catch X as Y comes out. I know lots of people who have used releases to try to snag rares because people can't get everything all at once.

[Amazon_warrior]

To solve cave-blocker problems, another idea is to Retire certain eggs. Just like what happened with the Frills, maybe it's time to retire certain unpopular breeds. This would possibly lower the ratio problem a bit (?).

Oh please no. I was a Frill fan and still miss them - I had a lineage going and everything.

[MysticTiger]

I know that there are people who say that slower players will never ever be able to get them if they don't get them the first day.  But I'm not sure how anyone can accurately predict that.  If we fixed the other problems with the cave and, in addition, introduced new dragons each month, the sheer influx of breeds will split everyone's focus so much that there will more chances to catch X as Y comes out.  I know lots of people who have used releases to try to snag rares because people can't get everything all at once.

It's not just "Slower" players. I think i'm a pretty "quick" player, but I can't be on the computer all the time or for long periods of time. I have work. And the only ones who seem to be able to "hoard" the more uncommon/rare dragons are those who are able to play and search the cave for hours.

 

For example:

- Two-headed Lindwurm (Never seen it in the cave since the day of it's release. Second-Generation Purebred Gold didn't even snag an offer in the Trading Post a week or two after it's release.)

- Tsunami (Got one the day of it's release, seen them in the biome but haven't been able to catch as someone always grabs them)

- Copper (Got some the day of it's release, never seen any afterwards)

- Gilded Bloodscale (Same as above)

- Golden Wyvern (Got one a few days after it's release, found one in the AP later, since then, nothing)

- THE TWO CURRENTLY BEING RELEASE (Seen in cave, tried at 12 and 1am, tried at 3pm and found they were too mixed with the older eggs, haven't caught yet)

 

My playing style is about catching a certain amount to breed. And I can't do that if I can't find them. I can't trade for them. The gifting lists are always full.

 

And, as i've pointed out before, i've been here since 2008. JUST THIS YEAR I got my first Cave Born Silvers and Cave Born Golds. There are many on here who've been on longer than me who still have none.

 

Unless you're willing to stay on this site for hours on end, playing the "catch and release" game, you're not going to get the eggs you want. And it stinks. I shouldn't take more time on Dragon Cave trying to catch one uncommon cave born egg then I take on Pokemon, catching Shinies.

Edited September 8, 2013 by MysticTiger

[Cecona]

Is a post like this made every time a new release comes out? Someone mentioned on the news thread that TJ doesn't care about making us happy with longer drops, but cares more about how many times we refresh the page so that he can collect revenue from the ads and that was the reason the mass drop will never be fixed.

[skauble]

It's not just "Slower" players. I think i'm a pretty "quick" player, but I can't be on the computer all the time or for long periods of time. I have work. And the only ones who seem to be able to "hoard" the more uncommon/rare dragons are those who are able to play and search the cave for hours.

 

For example:

- Two-headed Lindwurm (Never seen it in the cave since the day of it's release. Second-Generation Purebred Gold didn't even snag an offer in the Trading Post a week or two after it's release.)

- Tsunami (Got one the day of it's release, seen them in the biome but haven't been able to catch as someone always grabs them)

- Copper (Got some the day of it's release, never seen any afterwards)

- Gilded Bloodscale (Same as above)

- Golden Wyvern (Got one a few days after it's release, found one in the AP later, since then, nothing)

- THE TWO CURRENTLY BEING RELEASE (Seen in cave, tried at 12 and 1am, tried at 3pm and found they were too mixed with the older eggs, haven't caught yet)

 

My playing style is about catching a certain amount to breed. And I can't do that if I can't find them. I can't trade for them. The gifting lists are always full.

Yes, but what you're saying indicates a large, cave-wide wound and changing the release format is a little band-aid for it.

 

More than that, it's just passing off the same problem you mention to other players later on. Because 24 hour release would certainly fix the problem...if everyone can get on that day. But as you, very legitimately, point out, you can't be on as much as some people, so it's safe to assume that some people are committed to things where they can't free up a day.

 

Also, it means that players who join later will have all the hardship and no access to the "24 hour release" fix.

 

ITA with you that eggs aren't reasonably catchable if you can't find them because of the sheer amount of time that it takes to wait through blocked biomes to even see the egg you want. But that's the problem that needs to be fixed. Because if the eggs move and people can hunt and the ratios don't make breeds vanish, then that addresses both the issue of people not being able to get eggs if they don't on the release day, while also accomplishing the goal of longer gameplay, which was a concern that was raised by a lot of people.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Fixing the ratio problem would solve many problems overall.

1. fewer blockers

2. fewer blockers means more variety

3. fewer blockers during a new release means more new eggs per drop

4. fewer blockers will keep the boimes moving between releases

 

Everything boils down to the fact that THE RATIOS ARE BROKEN!!!!!

 

Until that problem is fixed, nothing else really matters because every fix needed is due to the ratio problem.

[MysticTiger]

More than that, it's just passing off the same problem you mention to other players later on. Because 24 hour release would certainly fix the problem...if everyone can get on that day. But as you, very legitimately, point out, you can't be on as much as some people, so it's safe to assume that some people are committed to things where they can't free up a day.

 

Also, it means that players who join later will have all the hardship and no access to the "24 hour release" fix.

 

ITA with you that eggs aren't reasonably catchable if you can't find them because of the sheer amount of time that it takes to wait through blocked biomes to even see the egg you want. But that's the problem that needs to be fixed. Because if the eggs move and people can hunt and the ratios don't make breeds vanish, then that addresses both the issue of people not being able to get eggs if they don't on the release day, while also accomplishing the goal of longer gameplay, which was a concern that was raised by a lot of people.

That's exactly why I suggested part 2, ignoring the ratio for the first day release. Because the majority of players would be filled up, the rest would be able to easily grab some eggs or be more easily gifted eggs from people who caught them the first day. It would trickle down because some people only want a certain amount and thus, they're good. Some people won't actively look for the new release after the first day. Basically, it would make the egg easier to catch for at least two-four days if not longer.

 

Players who join later will be able to be gifted Second Generation Purebreds or Cave borns from people who are no longer actively looking for the egg because they've gotten their fill but maybe like to breed them or just happen to come across the egg while hunting and no longer need it. It's all about filling people up and still having eggs left, so the next people to come along still have the ability to grab them.

 

I'm not saying it's the perfect be all, end all fix of the game. I'm saying it's something to at least attempt or collaborate about. Doing nothing isn't helping at all.

 

And, again, this isn't about Cave Blockers. That's an ENTIRELY different subject. Yes, that needs to be fixed. But i'm talking about New Releases and what would work for them. Yes, I think that the Cave Blockers and New Release problem should be fixed together but I don't think that will happen, thus I am proposing this idea. As someone mentioned, TJ may already have shot this idea down in another post. I'm just throwing ideas out there.

[Fuzzbucket]

But see, this reflects the persistent idea that everyone should end up with some of the new eggs on the first day. Why?

 

I don't say that to be mean to anyone or want people not to have fun, I'm just saying that I think there's a DC mindset about this that comes from two places:

 

1. The fear that those eggs won't be catchable later.

 

I really do think that's more indicative of a cave wide problem, as opposed to a release problem, and should be addressed as such by whatever fix TJ might make.

 

2. That's the way releases have been in the past and so there's something wrong if it's not that way in the future.

 

The second one there is what I think keeps refocusing us on release day fixes instead of cave-wide adjustments. Personally, I think it's reasonable to shift people's view to a long game approach, provided that the other issues get resolved. But even then I think it's going to take time and and influx of new players who aren't connected to the old release format to start to ease away the idea that everyone needs to walk away with new eggs on the day they're released.

 

I know that there are people who say that slower players will never ever be able to get them if they don't get them the first day. But I'm not sure how anyone can accurately predict that. If we fixed the other problems with the cave and, in addition, introduced new dragons each month, the sheer influx of breeds will split everyone's focus so much that there will more chances to catch X as Y comes out. I know lots of people who have used releases to try to snag rares because people can't get everything all at once.

Yes - exactly.

 

- IF we could be sure they wouldn't disappear at once. That's why people DO refresh constantly for the first day - in case they do the copper thing...

 

Yes there's a mindset - but the result of that has seemed to be that they vanish after the release day.

[Elery.]

Support!

[Grandmother_cathie]

I would like longer pure release times aka only releases at the hour drops.

I would like the first day of catches to not count against the ratios.

I would like to no longer feel that if I don't catch that day, I won't get them ever.

(read copper and 2 color from this last one)

I would NOT like to retire certain breeds. I love all the breeds....even the ones that I don't like very much.

[skauble]

That's exactly why I suggested part 2, ignoring the ratio for the first day release. Because the majority of players would be filled up, the rest would be able to easily grab some eggs or be more easily gifted eggs from people who caught them the first day. It would trickle down because some people only want a certain amount and thus, they're good. Some people won't actively look for the new release after the first day. Basically, it would make the egg easier to catch for at least two-four days if not longer.

 

Players who join later will be able to be gifted Second Generation Purebreds or Cave borns from people who are no longer actively looking for the egg because they've gotten their fill but maybe like to breed them or just happen to come across the egg while hunting and no longer need it. It's all about filling people up and still having eggs left, so the next people to come along still have the ability to grab them.

 

I'm not saying it's the perfect be all, end all fix of the game. I'm saying it's something to at least attempt or collaborate about. Doing nothing isn't helping at all.

 

And, again, this isn't about Cave Blockers. That's an ENTIRELY different subject. Yes, that needs to be fixed. But i'm talking about New Releases and what would work for them. Yes, I think that the Cave Blockers and New Release problem should be fixed together but I don't think that will happen, thus I am proposing this idea. As someone mentioned, TJ may already have shot this idea down in another post. I'm just throwing ideas out there.

And like I said in my first post, that's great unless the point of the new release format is to stop people from getting their fill in the initial release.

 

People were coming and complaining that there'd be a new release, they'd get what they need, and then wait for a new release. By combining frequent releases with early mixing, most players are forced to play a longer game because they can't show up, get all they need, and then done.

 

And it actually is very much about blockers, because that plan above is actually not a bad one at all...except for the fact that it's completely ruined by the fact that it relies on making people collect dragons over a longer period of time, and yet blockers make that almost impossible for many players.

 

I get what you're saying about fixing the release, and I understand where you're coming from, I just don't necessarily think that's the part that's broken. It's like fixing your door when you can't get into your house because someone pushed a dresser up against it. The door may work perfectly fine, but you won't know until the dresser gets moved.

 

 

Is a post like this made every time a new release comes out? Someone mentioned on the news thread that TJ doesn't care about making us happy with longer drops, but cares more about how many times we refresh the page so that he can collect revenue from the ads and that was the reason the mass drop will never be fixed.

 

But the new releases used to go on forevvvvver, and it was players' complaints that ended that. So it's not like TJ's always been against mass drops because it's a quick buck.

 

Frankly, I think he's not going to "fix" the drops because he may very well not think they're broken, given that we've recently adopted this new format. And I don't disagree with that. I think that other things are broken and it's more likely that those issues haven't been fixed because he's not too sure what to do about the ratio/biome blocker issue.

 

The fact is that if TJ was going to do that then there are so many other ways he could get people to spend hours clicking that wouldn't leave people this angry and frustrated.

[Amazon_warrior]

But the new releases used to go on forevvvvver, and it was players' complaints that ended that. So it's not like TJ's always been against mass drops because it's a quick buck.

Ahhhhh, the Midwinter Madness release, I think it was? The cave poured out an unending stream of Electrics, Nocturnes and Canopies for weeks until we all wept for mercy and people got hysterically excited about seeing things like Mints or Guardians flash by in the deluge of new eggs. That's something I don't want to experience again...

 

I do tend to agree with skauble that this suggestion may be trying to fix a symptom rather than a cause.

[Pokemonfan13]

One problem is, as we get more species, the rarity of each new release will get higher, be it a "common" or a "rare". After all, they are a piece of the pie, and as the number of pieces increases the size of each decreases. One way to at least help this would be the best solution to blockers as well: increase the rarity of blocker species. It makes more room for the new dragons that everyone wants to get.

[MysticTiger]

One problem is, as we get more species, the rarity of each new release will get higher, be it a "common" or a "rare". After all, they are a piece of the pie, and as the number of pieces increases the size of each decreases. One way to at least help this would be the best solution to blockers as well: increase the rarity of blocker species. It makes more room for the new dragons that everyone wants to get.

I agree, however, as some have argued raising the rarity of one will just make another one into a cave blocker and we'll be in the same boat.

 

I still stick by the Seasonal Changes idea. Where in, depending on the season, the ratio changes. For example, Canopies may be common in Spring/Summer but be really uncommon in Winter/Fall. Whereas Harvests would be really uncommon in Spring/Summer but really common in Fall and uncommon in Winter. This would help keep a variety to the caves and add an extra spin to the gameplay.

[Pokemonfan13]

Then increase the rarity of that one too. It will at least help things, especially when it comes to new releases.

[Syiren]

I like this idea very much. I am one of those with a very slow connection. The only reason I've got any of the new eggs is because of some very kind people.