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Helel

Undead "Zombie" Dragons, Breed Sort Order

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You want to use the Filter and Sort dropdown menus on the top of your scroll in this way:

 

1. Filter By: Show All

 

2. Sort By: Breed

 

This gives you the temporary Breed sort that does not interfere with the Custom sort settings.

I get what you mean with that, but the keyword in your description is what I want to highlight; temporary. It's not actually sorting the scroll the way I want to, it's just showing me what I want to see (kind of) and it's not what others see (plus the Sort By: filter overrides eggs and hatchlings staying at the top which is why I never use it).

 

It does actually interfere with custom sort, in the sense that it interferes with what I see. That sort by filter means I will see the new dragons getting sorted by breed AND see my Zombies mixed up yet in reality, my scroll is a mess of new adults not getting sorted while my Zombies are grouped up nicely (which is the bit that I actually want to see).

 

If I hadn't made it clear enough in my original post, my apologies, but what I want to achieve here is still keep my auto sort by breed so new adults get sorted without me doing anything, and I want to see the Zombies grouped under the actual breed name "Undead"s. So essentially, what I see in the end is, all dragons (newly grown or not) are sorted by breed and Undeads are also grouped by their Undead breed.

 

I do really like Zeditha's second idea to include their original breed on their page and sort by Undead, but this is assuming most people who've said they like the way they sort now are only saying so because they want to keep the knowledge of the original breed as opposed to also liking their Undeads scattered around.

Edited by bluesonic1

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I don't disagree that the current mechanics are not what you proposed. And I don't disagree that your idea is a good one. I think its a great idea that certainly should be put out there. Some people may agree, some people may disagree (especially if the sprite doesn't change for the chance to transform drakes, two-heads, others, and you forget to try to zombify an "offspring" of these dragons so you can prove it was "special" by breed sort rather than just making sure you are stabbing lineaged dragons... although vampires not sure what to say about those) - I still quite like your idea.

 

Just for supporters to know that until/if/when this idea is accepted, there are some other alternatives. And even if you have 10000 dragons, this idea still works because, unless you are one of those players (and you know who you are) who go out of there way to preplan TONS of zombie fodder (I'm talking like 40-100 or more dead tombstones awaiting their Halloween "magic") and thus have TONS of zombies (mostly hatchies though of course) because they are that good at preplanning), you just don't have 100's of zombies on your scroll in between all the others. So everytime you breed sort, you can use one of 2 customer sorts to find them out, pick them up (Alt-Click as we can now choose & move multiple dragons at once in one method) or just do a quick scroll, give them all a low number (something like 0-20 or where ever you want them to land at the top) and bam, they are at the top again. Or you can just leave customer sort and choose to sort your scroll by breed when you want. Of course, only YOU get to see that and not others... and I get making your scroll a certain way and pretty for others. I love arranging my scroll and lets face it, so do tons of other people.

 

So .... as long as people know there are some methods out there as a temporary thing they can do, I think they should still give this idea credit and merit and support it. I apologize if it sounded any other way or if it sounded like I thought it was a bad idea because, there are ways to accomplish this, just with a bit more work. Just because it can be semi-accomplished takes NO merit away from your idea, and I think its an idea that should be proposed.

 

I'm still hoping for a zombie sprite update that makes it a bit more clear what breed the zombie might have originally been, even if its just a little bit of difference, so that the need to want it sorted by "breed" doesn't really exist anymore because the sprite makes it obvious. Or maybe something in the breed info. While you can always put it in the description, and I love me my descriptions, that isn't the same either.

 

So you've got my support on this idea. If there is no difference in the sprites ever, you better believe my "special babies" (who push on the pull door in the school for the gifted) are gonna get special descriptions. I've been overdue to do my zombie sagas too. But between you and me, I'd like them to sort under undead too.

 

Just don't tell anybody cuz I'm a big fan and user of custom sort(s) (I use two of them) and I don't want any of the people I'm trying to convince how awesome custom sort is to know....

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Is it possible to make Zombie dragons have their own Breed Sort Order place?

As Undead, Zombie or whatever.

Cos I'm always using Breed Sort Order, and I would REALLY prefer for all of my Zombies to be in one place!

Especially now, that we got few different types of them.

When there was only one type, I had male & female Zombie made from one breed (Guardian in my case), so they both where in the same place (near other Guardian dragons, but at least in one place).

Now they will be all over my scroll! dry.gif

I REALLY don't like this perspective, and even considering not making new Zombie variants at all - to not ruin Breed Sort Order on my scroll...

Maybe you (TJ & Co) can think of some solution for OCD/Perfectionist/Crazy people like me? smile.gif

 

P.S. Sorry if it was already discussed!

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Agreed! It's a pain to have to remember what breed they were before to find them on your scroll, and they look nicer when they're all together. If it's not too difficult to code, it would be great to have all the zombies sorted together under the same breed.

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I do want my undeads to be in the same place since its very annoying trying to see how many I have, and now to know which ones I have.

 

Why not just simply make them sort as Undead, and when you click it, you can see which breed it was? Something like "This dragon used to be [insertDragonBreedHere] until a miserable curse was put on to it, so now it lurks aimlessly" or something like that (it doesnt have to be that gloomy, but it would add something more to their character?). That way anyone can know the original breed of the undead, while they still sort as their "unique" breed. This could also be applied to vampires (well, they sort as vampires, but is difficult to remember which breed they where unless their parents are the same breed [with the exception of earths and stones, since you know, they can breed geodes all of a sudden]).

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lol, forgot that I created this thread few years ago... anyway, now (with addition of more Zombie types) this "problem" is even more actual/vital! smile.gif

 

P.S. Thanks to Mod, who merged two threads.

Edited by Helel

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I do not support this idea for many reasons. One: Making Zombies from Drakes and other Special Breeds was "Special" for the first time this last season. The only way people can know they were special is via the Breed Sorting so you can "prove" they were once whatever type of dragon. Although certainly with the new pictures it might make it a bit more obvious. But there is one type that is even a bigger deal.

 

People used to complain that taking the time to "vampire" a dragon and then "zombie" those was a lot of work that wasn't worth the time because there was no way to tell. Well now there is. (I read that and it inspired me, despite not any special thing, to do it and I got one to work). I was so happy. Now I'm even more happy because I can show off "Look I got a VAMPIRE zombie!! And I can prove it because of how their breed sorts. Other dragons (except CB previously) could at least "prove" their "specialty type" if they had parents of that specialty type (drakes, pygmies, two heads, whatever). But vampires there is nothing. Now there is.

 

So unless there is going to be made.. "yet another avatar for zombie vampires" on top of all the other avatars they've made (and maybe TJ and the spriters are down with that), I'm a going to have a strong no on this. And I still like the breed sort.

 

But on top of the customized sort options (and yes I know they are a pain), we also have a lot of other sort options suggested that are far more easier. I do have a strong feeling that in the future, TJ is eventually going to offer more sort options. I don't have insider secret knowledge. I just know that TJ does try to respond to things that have a large ongoing request base. Not everything, and maybe not as fast as people sometimes want, but he works hard at this stuff. So I imagine in the future we'll have more sort options that will allow for more customization. So instead of pre-defining how you want it to sort, it might be better to make a suggestion where people can choose from a easier selection or sort option that makes their zombies sort as a grouping vs their original "dragon breed."

 

Because with the way things are always changing and being re-released here, nothing is static. Having their breed "redefined", by the time that would get potentially put in, is probably going to be part of a larger fix that is going to allow for a lot more sort options.

 

Not something to say your idea is wrong or you need to edit it, just throwing out something that might be forward thinking. I know you can't base things on stuff I can't know for sure - but I just wanted to throw out the various reasons and degrees for my not supporting.

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I'm screaming for Zombies/Undeads being completely sortable,

I want them all lined in proper, organised families or whatever, especially as now there are dozens of new sprites and I'd rather not see so many dragons migrating everywhere at random or sth, it's just so annoying whenever I think about it. Chaos!

 

Well, I'd rather not sort my croll by breed - this sort is painfully boring (always the same dragon breeds on top... I prefer to sort by breed's release time with newest on top so I can enjoy the new breeds easly, I also need my Papers on top and Cheese in the end, additional BSAs even behind the Cheese(they kind of dont' belong to my scroll) or my scroll will already be disorganised)

also there is no way to line all Zombies in one line (a kind of block of Zombies) because breeds that can make particular zombie sprites can't be picked in a way that would make them all one after another in the alphabet. E.g. think of Blusang(which is the only of this type exept Paper - whic idk if can be zombiefied) and Xenowyrms which are most propably the only breeds making wyrm/wurm zombies... no way to do it, also new releases would sooner or later interrupt the already undoable aphapetically sorted line...

 

Zombies (in their current number, at the very least, of 24 new different sprites and I only counded the 8 sub-types Odeen confirmed, I ignored the sub-types Wikia included as hypothetical) should be controlable SOMEHOW, even if that would mean using some BSA on each of them to make them stop wanderign around. This way they could be sorted whenever one pleases regardless the sorting scheme they use.

 

and yeah, they should be all sorted as Zombie or Undead or sth, all under the same name, they're all, after all, the same breed now, they are kind of re-'born' into undeads and lost traits of their particular breeds, keepign only the number and type of limbs but nothing more(e.g. all wyverns loose horns). And there also should be a way to check what breed it was before, which, btw could be hidden by the user or shared by them depending what they prefer.

 

 

and everyone would be happy I believe

summary of the most universal combo:

*all Zombies sort by as 1 breed named Zombie or Undead (or sth) (for 'sort by breed' users)

*there is a BSA/action that makes each chosen zombie stop wandering around = settle down (useful for each kind of custom sort, and anyone who hates the chaos this wandering makes)

- reverse by using the same BSA/action again (similar to Aegis enrage/pacify) (I'd suggest each Zombie individual to have this BSA, each uses it on itself only)

*zombie's view page reveals what breed it was before becoming a zombie (for all those proud of what breed their zombie was), with scroll-wide option to hide that information from view (for those who'd rather not want this info available, because zombie is just a zombie now or whatever)

 

I don't think it would be possible to make anoyone unhappy if this combo was implemented.

Because this would allow everyone to sort their zombies however they like, including letting them wander around or letting some wander and making some settle down, etc.

 

 

on the other hand, the last part of the combo is not that necessary... Vampires, Neglecteds... none shows what it was before... why should zombies be any different? they are cursed after all, they probably don't remember who they were before... It's strange they keep sorting as their previous breed right now...

Edited by VixenDra

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If I'm understanding what you mean by wandering zombies, wasn't that fixed a while ago? It used to be that zombies didn't have the visible tombstones as placeholders, and so would move around in respect to other dragons if you sorted during the day while they were hidden. I know my zombies haven't budged from their place above my shimmers, and I do most of my sorting during the day.

 

 

As to the actual suggestion, I definitely support it. People sort using breed sort because they want all their breeds neatly organized. Having zombies randomly placed based on their previous breed defeats that organization. I understand that it's cool to know what breed your zombie originally was and that this suggestion would remove that knowledge. That can easily be solved by adding a "Previous breed" field on the zombie's view page.

Edited by Pokemonfan13

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With new "Breed" sort order my Zombies still considered their "base" breed, and not ndead/[Z]ombie/whatever... sad.gif

I guess I was hoping for too much... sad.gif

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Definite support for this change. I don't use breed sort, but for purely selfish reasons (ie, trying to find zombies on other scrolls that use breed sort) I would definitely like zombies to actually sort under a specific zombie breed.

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Support for this change. These are Undeads, not what they used to be. They even have their own encyclopeadia entry as if it was a regular, standalone breed... with alts.

Also, with the update you can tell that sub-type it was:P Do we really need to know what breed it was born as? I'd rather keep that kind of information private to the owner only. So maybe there could be some additional way for the owner to see what they made an Undead from?

 

Anyway, I use the custom sort anyway because I mostly sort by breed's release date and separate my scroll dragons from additional BSA dragons that I don't really consider part of my scroll, so well, this wouldn't affect me, but I just believe it would make much more sense having them list as Undead(or Zombie to make them sort more or less in the back? but well, for the consistecy's sake they shoudl be named like they are in the encyclopeadia, so 'Undead') for this is their breed now and will remain its breed as long as the dragon exists, and memory-quoting: 'they lost resemblance to what breed they were' is the canon. All that remained is the general sub-type, which is pretty much if we consider that 'quote's' content. Shimmer or Striped river? you can't tell... or you can? ofc you can, it's an Undead eastern! smile.gif Well, this is how encyclopeadia treats it.

 

 

It simply makes sense...

But for my game it's completely insignificant so I won't have actual issues no matter how it is,

well, unless the 'wandering off' was back ninja.gif

Edited by VixenDra

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*there is a BSA/action that makes each chosen zombie stop wandering around = settle down (useful for each kind of custom sort, and anyone who hates the chaos this wandering makes)

- reverse by using the same BSA/action again (similar to Aegis enrage/pacify) (I'd suggest each Zombie individual to have this BSA, each uses it on itself only)

 

Zombies do not wander anymore. and haven't since the tombstones were made visible at all times to the owners. (because being invisible is what caused them to move.)

 

So there is no need for a bsa to prevent it.

 

 

 

Also, no support. I like that they sort as the former breed. It's unique quirk of the breed.

 

 

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Also, no support. I like that they sort as the former breed. It's unique quirk of the breed.

New breed sort order suppose to sort dragons by breed (like in encyclopedia).

Zombies have their own breed there, right?

So they suppose to sort as Undead, but they not!

Also, Vampires have their own breed, not the one they had before egg was turned, so I don't see the problem in that department either.

I personally don't want to even try creating new Zombies, cos they will be all over my scroll, and I'm using breed sort order cos I want all my dragons of the same type to be in the same place.

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I don't know if you can say a Zombie is another breed of dragon.

 

Vampires have their eggs rewritten at the point of the egg via bite, like an infection. It's almost like a virus. Their DNA (or whatever dragons on Valkemare have) is physically rewritten to be Vampire DNA. They can no longer breed with their original species, and they no longer look like their original species. Vampire Dragons are no longer members of their original breeds of dragon.

 

Zombies, however, are reanimated corpses, and more importantly, on Valkemare, failed revival attempts. The magic that influences zombies wasn't trying to make new breed as much as it was trying to bring something that was dead back to life. The problem is the magic didn't work right, and the dragon was revived as an corpse, rather than a fully healed specimen of the breed of dragon.

 

That means they didn't stop being the original breed. The zombie just stopped being a living member of said breed, and as the body decayed, looked less and less of the original dragon bred because the identifying bits all rotted away.

 

With that said, maybe there could be an optional version where you could choose whether or not Zombies sort with the original breed or as a separate breed. Maybe as a check or un-check option on the Sort Page?

 

Edit: Wording change.

Edited by Shokomon

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New breed sort order suppose to sort dragons by breed (like in encyclopedia).

Zombies have their own breed there, right?

So they suppose to sort as Undead, but they not!

Also, Vampires have their own breed, not the one they had before egg was turned, so I don't see the problem in that department either.

I personally don't want to even try creating new Zombies, cos they will be all over my scroll, and I'm using breed sort order cos I want all my dragons of the same type to be in the same place.

Vampires also dropped in the cave originally. ergo: they are a separate breed. The cave ones infected others with their 'virus" and allowed it to spread.

 

They have to be in the encyclopedia somewhere otherwise they would be the only dragons to not have info. (yes there are a few missing, but TJ adds them as he gets time)

 

 

 

also everything Shokomon said because it's much better word-wise than I was managing.

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I would've been nice, if TJ sad something on this matter... Is it hard to implement? Is he just against the idea? Or will it be done in the future, when he gets time? Or something else...

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I don't know if you can say a Zombie is another breed of dragon.

 

Vampires have their eggs rewritten at the point of the egg via bite, like an infection. It's almost like a virus. Their DNA (or whatever dragons on Valkemare have) is physically rewritten to be Vampire DNA. They can no longer breed with their original species, and they no longer look like their original species. Vampire Dragons are no longer members of their original breeds of dragon.

 

Zombies, however, are reanimated corpses, and more importantly, on Valkemare, failed revival attempts. The magic that influences zombies wasn't trying to make new breed as much as it was trying to bring something that was dead back to life. The problem is the magic didn't work right, and the dragon was revived as an corpse, rather than a fully healed specimen of the breed of dragon.

 

That means they didn't stop being the original breed. The zombie just stopped being a living member of said breed, and as the body decayed, looked less and less of the original dragon bred because the identifying bits all rotted away.

 

With that said, maybe there could be an optional version where you could choose whether or not Zombies sort with the original breed or as a separate breed. Maybe as a check or un-check option on the Sort Page?

 

Edit: Wording change.

It can be argued that with the amount of magic "fiddling" involved in the revival process, that the magic has deteriorated them to the point where they're not their own breed, but they're no longer their original breed. They have their own entry, their own behaviour that is shared despite originally being different breeds- I feel like this description is more fitting than saying they are simply reanimated versions of their previous breed.

 

And I did make the suggestion of using a tick-box option to sort Undeads by their actual breed vs their original breed- when I did it though, I was the OP, so perhaps the OP in this case can update the first post with suggestions? This tick box wasn't the only one, I'm quite a fan of someone bringing up the point of adding "Original Breed" as a field on the Undead's view page- this would be something I think that users who wanted others to know about their hard-to-obtain-zombies would prefer even over the current system, as having it stated on the view page there is no way it can be refuted.

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