Lineage view change

[Amazon_warrior]

I wonder if it makes a difference that I have a wide screen monitor....

 

It looks lovely from where I'm sitting ! Truly !

Fuzz, you're a terrible liar. :/

 

It looks even more awful on my desktop's 24" monitor than it does on my laptop's 11.2" screen. The CB generation is impossible to decipher. Screenshot from my 24" monitor - my disdain for this change has *nothing* to with the size of the screens I use. :|

 

And that Rainbow lineage you admired? Well I was planning to combine it with a couple of other rainbows to make a 9th gen multi-rainbow lineage, but I won't bother now if it's going to look like the 9th gen example I already posted.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Amazon_warrior

[rubyshoes]

I wonder if it makes a difference that I have a wide screen monitor....

 

It looks lovely from where I'm sitting ! Truly !

I agree. I like the way it looks

[Amazon_warrior]

I agree. I like the way it looks

Good for you both.

 

I'm actually seriously thinking of quitting because of this. Honestly. Making big, beautiful lineages was the *point* of DC for me, and if my lineages no longer look beautiful to me, then there really isn't any point me continuing to play.

[dragongrrl]

Good for you both.

 

I'm actually seriously thinking of quitting because of this. Honestly. Making big, beautiful lineages was the *point* of DC for me, and if my lineages no longer look beautiful to me, then there really isn't any point me continuing to play.

Please, don't quit! We need to keep working on getting the even gen views restored.

 

And honestly, I don't understand how anyone can say those lineages look good when the CBs are only dots of color on my 24" widescreen monitor. They do not reflect the intention of the breeder, and to me, that is heartbreaking.

 

Please, TJ, restore our beautiful Even Gens.

[Orlageddon]

I'll just pop in and say that I agree with the general feel here. This makes lineages look hideous and I'd love to see it changed back.

[skauble]

I have to say that I'm not loving this change either.

 

I do appreciate the effort on trying to find ways to allow people to better view lineages, but this, for a lot of people, kind of ruins the look which was one of the major reasons people wanted to be able to see more than just a part of them at a time. So I hope this change takes a new direction because, for me at least, it's kind of "Here's a better view of something you don't really want to look at anymore" situation right now.

 

But, frankly, I tend to believe that this will change, simply because lineage building is something that gets people to keep playing long term. Making that a less attractive prospect is counter-productive. Even more so when one asks - what's the payoff? If this did something that attracted people either equally or in greater measure than it puts people off, then there would be a value in sticking with it. Likewise, if it did something particular for site performance. But if that's not going on, then I really don't see why the change would stay.

 

Which isn't to say that I think it needs to be the way it was. If there is a better way out there, that's great and I'd love to see some possibilities because I actually would like to be able to see more of lineages than we normally can. But I think that it has to be done with the goal of preserving the lineage work that people have done in this game because that's been a rather massive undertaking.

 

And while I'm probably not one who would leave the game because of this, I definitely might cut back on lineage work. For instance, I have a Silver lineage where the CBs are all Silver/Cavern Lurker pairings. The rest of the line is Silver/Silver. That CB row completely grounds and gives purpose to the rest of the lineage. It's not incidental, it's everything. So something that lessens the impact of that row in a substantial manner really does impact whether I want to bother continuing with this now that I'm at the point where I can only breed one more gen on my own and then I have to start trading/getting community help to continue.

 

So I'm really not sure I see this as a permanent change, mostly because I just don't see where the benefit is that is so much larger than having a lot of players start to shrug off their lineage work.

[Fuzzbucket]

Fuzz, you're a terrible liar. :/

 

It looks even more awful on my desktop's 24" monitor than it does on my laptop's 11.2" screen. The CB generation is impossible to decipher. Screenshot from my 24" monitor - my disdain for this change has *nothing* to with the size of the screens I use. :|

 

And that Rainbow lineage you admired? Well I was planning to combine it with a couple of other rainbows to make a 9th gen multi-rainbow lineage, but I won't bother now if it's going to look like the 9th gen example I already posted.

Excuse me - I thought we were friends

 

I never lie. Not (mostly) from any compunction, just because I can never be bothered to remember what I said to whom That's hard work and I just can't face it !

 

I truly DO think it looks beautiful on my monitor... (and on your screenshot.) More if it is visible in one go than used to be, too. I didn't know you had a widescreen one too.

 

We can agree to disagree - but I am not the only one who likes it.

[Gsea]

Excuse me - I thought we were friends

 

I never lie. Not (mostly) from any compunction, just because I can never be bothered to remember what I said to whom That's hard work and I just can't face it !

 

I truly DO think it looks beautiful on my monitor... (and on your screenshot.) More if it is visible in one go than used to be, too. I didn't know you had a widescreen one too.

 

We can agree to disagree - but I am not the only one who likes it.

I like it. It's grown on me - at first I hated it, but since it seems to have been fixed on stairsteps/spirals, I've grown to like the way it looks on even-gens. Everyone is complaining that the sprites are indistinguishable on their screens, but they sure don't seem like 'dots of color' on my laptop screen, which I've just measured to be 13 inch x 7.5 inch. I can tell what breed each dragon is.

 

The symmetry on even-gens really appeals to me. All the tiny sprite tiles are lined up nicely with the names beside them, and I think it looks quite nice. The only thing that bothered me in the first place was how it looked on stairsteps & spirals. It didn't/wouldn't bother me on messy lineages, as they're already messy to begin with.

 

All in all, I like it.

[Amazon_warrior]

Please, don't quit! We need to keep working on getting the even gen views restored.

 

And honestly, I don't understand how anyone can say those lineages look good when the CBs are only dots of color on my 24" widescreen monitor.  They do not reflect the intention of the breeder, and to me, that is heartbreaking.

 

Please, TJ, restore our beautiful Even Gens.

Lineages have kept me playing this game for far longer than the basic premise of "collect dragon sprites" alone would have. And now that's been taken from me. Honestly, I don't really have anything to stick around for. By most peoples' definition, I have a very complete scroll, with CBs of pretty much everything one can obtain as CBs. Other than maybe clocking in to grab a M/F pair of new releases, what is there now?

 

 

 

Fuzz, we are friends, but you can tell me how much you like the new look until you're blue in the face and I can tell you how much I hate it until I'm blue in the face, and neither of us will change the other's opinion.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Amazon_warrior

[missy_]

If you look at the original suggestion in the Suggestions Forum, an important part of the implementation was to allow us to be able to enlarge the lineage back to its original view. That was not done here. There is no "enlarge" option, we cannot click on this new lineage and get the larger icons back, we cannot see a tiny lineage in its original larger form, even though all of that was in the original suggestion!

 

We have been forced into a smaller view which for the majority of us ruins the look of even gen lineages, and without any option to see a larger original lineage view on any lineage. This is why many who are passionate about even gens are speaking out about this topic: we have no options. Yet the original suggestion was based on the assumption of an enlarged view!

 

And while we have been focused on even gens, the smaller icons in the first generation is a problem for all types of lineages. It is especially egregious in even gens.

 

TJ, please quickly restore the beauty of the even gen lineages and -- while my first preference would be for you to restore everything as it was previously, as I really despise the current option, a second option would be to make all lineages clickable so that the original sized lineages can be viewed on mobile devices as well as desktop computers. Thank you.

Edited July 9, 2013 by missy_

[skauble]

Lineages have kept me playing this game for far longer than the basic premise of "collect dragon sprites" alone would have.  And now that's been taken from me.  Honestly, I don't really have anything to stick around for.  By most peoples' definition, I have a very complete scroll, with CBs of pretty much everything one can obtain as CBs.  Other than maybe clocking in to grab a M/F pair of new releases, what is there now?

My stunning beauty? I know you can't see it through the internet, but I swear I'm exquisite and totally worth staying around for.

 

Aside from that, I will say that I do think that it's worth staying around a bit longer to stay in the conversation. We've seen a lot of major changes come and go in the game, so I don't think there's a set precedent that says this one will absolutely stick.

 

I think that one of my biggest problem with the CB line in the AW's screenshot is that it makes the names the overwhelming feature of the first gen. So not only does text become the dominant feature, but it then creates a certain "messy" feeling given that the text (the new focus) is all different lengths. Part of the draw of even-gens, for many, was the symmetry which focused, in the largest part, on the interplay of the images. Elevating text above that undercuts the symmetry, for me.

 

Which isn't to say that text can't be an important feature in lineages. It can, but I don't see how this change would benefit those lineages either.

[Amazon_warrior]

My stunning beauty? I know you can't see it through the internet, but I swear I'm exquisite and totally worth staying around for.

 

Aside from that, I will say that I do think that it's worth staying around a bit longer to stay in the conversation. We've seen a lot of major changes come and go in the game, so I don't think there's a set precedent that says this one will absolutely stick.

 

I think that one of my biggest problem with the CB line in the AW's screenshot is that it makes the names the overwhelming feature of the first gen. So not only does text become the dominant feature, but it then creates a certain "messy" feeling given that the text (the new focus) is all different lengths. Part of the draw of even-gens, for many, was the symmetry which focused, in the largest part, on the interplay of the images. Elevating text above that undercuts the symmetry, for me.

 

Which isn't to say that text can't be an important feature in lineages. It can, but I don't see how this change would benefit those lineages either.

*hugs skauble*

 

I haven't quite flounced out of the door yet, but I've definitely got my hat and coat on! This really is a "straw that broke the camel's back" thing for me - I've been getting quietly frustrated with the game for some time, but stuck with it because of the community and the lineages I enjoyed making and helping others make. But I'm not going to waste upwards of a year working on something that makes me wince to see it. I'll give it until the end of July, but if nothing's changed by then (and judging from the resounding silence from the Powers That Be on this subject, I'm not holding my breath), then I'm out of here.

 

And yes, that's one of the problems - placing such importance on the text over the artwork. And it's not as if I don't have lineages that use both image and text interplay *waves hand at entire Doctor Who section of scroll*, but I feel the balance has been lost in lineages like this and this now.

[Fuzzbucket]

Fuzz, we are friends, but you can tell me how much you like the new look until you're blue in the face and I can tell you how much I hate it until I'm blue in the face, and neither of us will change the other's opinion.

Oh yes indeed - but you did say I was lying. Not so.

 

It did look weird with stairs and spirals though.

 

And yes skauble, your beauty is legendary Also your wit. (see my sig...)

 

PS amazon - the new view makes the text in those way easier to read....

Edited July 8, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Sycamore]

Elevating text above that undercuts the symmetry, for me.

I couldn't agree more about the symmetry being ruined. The fact that it breaks the symmetry of the lineages so badly is exactly why I dislike the change so much.

 

With the old format it was relatively easy to maintain an even amount of space between the portraits in successive generations and produce regular/squared cells. Now, you'd have to reduce the dragons' names down to ~6 letters or less in every single generation from the 2nd onward to even come close to the same effect with the portraits, and the names would still be irregular.

 

EDIT: Darn it, I just did it and even with no names the generations aren't evenly spaced, the portraits in the CB gen look misaligned in their column, the size difference between the CB and later gen portraits is jarring and sloppy, and even when they're nameless there are still the freaking codes in the CB gen, taking up half the lineage, hanging off the side like a growth.

 

It's as aesthetically ridiculous as wearing a backpack with a ballgown.

 

<melodrama>

I keep trying and trying to convince myself

that it can't still look as awful to me as it used to,

but every single time time I venture a peek

at one of my (previously) gorgeous even gens,

it's still just as bad as I remember

- Poema In Memoriam

- RIP my lovelies

x_x

</melodrama>

Edited July 9, 2013 by Sycamore

[prpldrgnfr]

*cries* This is still wrong, and it's not even an even gen! It was my very first project built around two AP finds (Where's My Ribbons and I Want Ribbons Too), plus a *lot* of help from generous players. The appeal was both the shape and the Holidays in the base gen. Please change it back or make the new view optional!

 

P.S. Amazon, I really hope you don't leave, but will understand if you do, you're one of the awesome ones! (and I'll miss you)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Considering TJ fixed stairsteps/spirals, I assume he IS keeping an eye on this; I can only hope in a few days when people's opinions are still sour that he'll fix even gens as well. I understand and appreciate the gesture, but this is really messing up how my lovely checkers look--there has to be a better compromise as to how to see more of a lineage without sacrificing the impression of unity, either through a small view/normal view option, making this new thing itself optional, or whatever.

[Fuzzbucket]

But unless you managed to get every name the same size - and if you use AP finds that isn't always possible anyway - it was never that even.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/qxpYA

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/46AWg

 

To get even squares, TJ would need to code it for word wrap to two lines max and every cell the exact same size - and you might end up with broken words... While I do like the new view, I could live with THAT - except for that last. I am NOT OK with seeing

 

 

Startlingly G

reen Lazuli

 

in a box (that's just an example...)

 

I DO want scrolling lineages though - so we can see the whole 25 gens (yes I have a couple) by scrolling across them instead of trying to work out which dragons have further lineage. It would save so much time trying to find if you really did get a new Dorkface !

Edited July 9, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Sycamore]

Better yet, the names could be shrunk to fit a certain size cell with full size on mouse over (bonus points if a setting to restore the previous full size names is available as a scroll option).

 

With the previous lineage view, the size of all the cells in any generation could easily be controlled as long as a single name in each generation of the lineage was an appropriate length. The only situation that caused trouble was using a dragon that wasn't yours when it had a name that was too long.

 

Incorporating AP finds is fun and all, but anyone who put in the considerable time and effort to build lineages all the way up from CBs had complete control over the lineage's appearance.

 

Now they have no options at all.

It's literally impossible to make the lineages symmetrical after the change.

[tjekan]

Fuzz, we are friends, but you can tell me how much you like the new look until you're blue in the face and I can tell you how much I hate it until I'm blue in the face, and neither of us will change the other's opinion.

This, in a nutshell, is why TJ needs to implement multiple lineage viewing options (just like the already-existing multiple scroll viewing/pagination options.)

 

I really can't imagine that Amazon_warrior would have any objection to *Fuzzbucket* viewing her lineage with the new format if Fuzz finds it beautiful that way. Right? Amazon just wants to be able to view her own lineage the way that SHE finds beautiful (and designed it to look so.) What could be a fairer request than that?

 

Whether people like the new look or not basically boils down to whether it still strikes them as symmetrical, IMHO. Even-gens are all about the symmetry. To me, the new view still appears symmetrical because I can still clearly see the horizontal axis down the middle and all the dragon pictures patterned evenly around it, so the change does not personally bother me (though I do prefer the original view, but I don't mind the new one.) But to others, it no longer appears symmetrical because the first gen and second gen columns are now the same size instead of each gen being incrementally longer, and because the pictures in the first gen are now smaller. I can really see the point of view where that would really ruin their appearance for some people.

 

So... give each user the CHOICE of which way they prefer to view lineages! Problem completely, entirely solved. Right?

[ninish]

This, in a nutshell, is why TJ needs to implement multiple lineage viewing options (just like the already-existing multiple scroll viewing/pagination options.)

 

I really can't imagine that Amazon_warrior would have any objection to *Fuzzbucket* viewing her lineage with the new format if Fuzz finds it beautiful that way. Right? Amazon just wants to be able to view her own lineage the way that SHE finds beautiful (and designed it to look so.) What could be a fairer request than that?

 

Whether people like the new look or not basically boils down to whether it still strikes them as symmetrical, IMHO. Even-gens are all about the symmetry. To me, the new view still appears symmetrical because I can still clearly see the horizontal axis down the middle and all the dragon pictures patterned evenly around it, so the change does not personally bother me (though I do prefer the original view, but I don't mind the new one.) But to others, it no longer appears symmetrical because the first gen and second gen columns are now the same size instead of each gen being incrementally longer, and because the pictures in the first gen are now smaller. I can really see the point of view where that would really ruin their appearance for some people.

 

So... give each user the CHOICE of which way they prefer to view lineages! Problem completely, entirely solved. Right?

THIS.

 

/Like.

 

I also thought about quitting when this whole thing came up, since i also love lineages, specially checkers, quite a lot. however, i decided against it cause i still have to catch 'em all. if not for that, i'd be in the same situation as Amazon_Warrior.

 

/btw, is it just me, or the ap lost a 'line'?/ (totally off topic )

[Wiz]

Every time I look at my longer even gens I dislike them more. I have a Doctor Who lineage I've been working on for years that I was trying to get to 10th gen. Now? I really can't find the heart to continue when I'm not going to like the finished project. And, while even gens are my first and biggest love I was beginning to get into arrow projects because the symmetry was appealing to me. Now after seeing this I give up. It's hideous and I really don't want to continue building the mate for his children that I've been working so hard on.

Like Amazon the main appeal to the game for me is lineage building. Because of the ability to build beautiful lineages this game has kept me entertained for five years. Before the change I had years more work planned out. Now? What's the point? Everything I've worked on has been ruined and unless it's fixed I really don't have the heart to continue.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, packing up my toys and stalking off (and I know it's not what Amazon is doing either). That's not what this is. This is doing a jigsaw and someone coming along and taking half the pieces when you're nearly finished. I understand how Amazon feels completely and feel the same way. Please TJ, fix our game so we can play the way we want to.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wiz

[TCA]

Eww. The first gen looks especially stupid at 5th-gen, where it sticks out like a sore thumb. Especially when you have longer names. I want to see the lineages back to how they were so I can make my pretty things and have them still be pretty, please.

[Amazon_warrior]

Every time I look at my longer even gens I dislike them more. I have a Doctor Who lineage I've been working on for years that I was trying to get to 10th gen. Now? I really can't find the heart to continue when I'm not going to like the finished project. And, while even gens are my first and biggest love I was beginning to get into arrow projects because the symmetry was appealing to me. Now after seeing this I give up. It's hideous and I really don't want to continue building the mate for his children that I've been working so hard on.

Like Amazon the main appeal to the game for me is lineage building. Because of the ability to build beautiful lineages this game has kept me entertained for five years. Before the change I had years more work planned out. Now? What's the point? Everything I've worked on has been ruined and unless it's fixed I really don't have the heart to continue.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, packing up my toys and stalking off (and I know it's not what Amazon is doing either). That's not what this is. This is doing a jigsaw and someone coming along and taking half the pieces when you're nearly finished. I understand how Amazon feels completely and feel the same way. Please TJ, fix our game so we can play the way we want to.

*hugs Wiz*

 

Yes. All of this. I keep thinking, "Ooo, such-and-such would make a nice lineage..... owait. No point."

[Rally Vincent]

I very much would like to argue in favor of the change with all the arguments from the silver sprite replacement - starting from "you are hurting the artists admins feelings" over "you should be grateful he put so much work into it" to "old lineage view was flawed, the change had to come".

 

Unfortunately, I don't like the new lineage view myself, so I can't.

[Moonlightelf]

I've been observing the lineages' changes for a while, and after a good bit of thinking, I've grown to dislike the lines. I did give it chance, but just doesn't look good.

 

Surely, it makes them look somewhat tidied up from the first generations, but aesthetic appeal of the lineages are definitely suffering from the changes. To some people, the CBs of the lines are the focus of the line in the even gens. However, now they seem to be insignificant blobs of colors, some being so small that you can't really make up what there is in the longer lines.

"Oh? Is that a Silver in there? Oh... no... it was a Lumina. ."

 

Evengens aren't called such without reason. Though I agree, now they seem quite asymmetrical instead of symmetrical we are looking for. What about checker-lineages then?

I think we all can agree that chess-board would look really stupid if the starting points of the pieces were squashed into rectangles. So with checker-lineages that are 5+ gen... they are no longer checker-lineages because of the change in lineage view. They are oddities that are not appealing.

 

Dear TJ, please make it either optional or change it back to the old way.