Lineage view change

[airaani]

I really, really dislike this. I know it's intended to make the lineages shorter vertically for less scrolling, but it makes patterns less pretty horizontally, and it makes long names look even WORSE in long gen dragons. And here I was hoping for fixed-width boxes where the names could run onto a 2nd line, to avoid long names making everything look weird...

[Confused Cat]

I THINK they always did get smaller, just not this small, and not with the names to the right.

The icons older than 4 generations have always (as far as I remember) been slightly smaller than the others, and I always thought that was "not 100% perfect", but the dragons were still recognizable and it didn't look too bad. The new super-tiny ones are, well, still better than no icons at all, but not by much.

 

However, what bothers me most is the placement of the names. I just can't imagine anyone looking at a 5th gen lineage without wondering "huh, why did they design those boxes on the right different from the others?"

 

Why? Whyyy...? *pathetically throws hands up in the air and stares at night sky hoping to get an answer from the stars, but only hears echo of her own voice*

 

... Okay, I'm aware those are just pixels that are now placed in a different way than before. Pixels are not really important. But within the world of this game, the placement of pixels is indeed important to me.

 

(After all, the game is about things that are completely ridiculous when you try to explain them to someone not playing it. "I am trying to click an image that might appear on this page if I refresh it a thousand times because I want this program to make a database entry in which the fields for parent IDs are empty and the field for owner is my user ID and the field for dragon type is a number that means Gold, so NO we can't have dinner yet!")

Edited July 15, 2013 by Confused Cat

[QAndais]

All I know is that for now I will not be making any lineages past 4th EG myself. If this change sticks around all I know is that i might not even put effort into making lineages anymore. I had some long term plans for eg but this has ruined it for me.

[Iside]

I don't know how to not sound negative so I just won't say anything at all. But I do want to point out a business money aspect here:

 

I think there is also another money aspect: most older players have long completed their scroll goals, and they keep on playing because they like working on lineages. And even gen are very popular lineages.

 

If now most (according to the poll in this thread) people don't like how these lineages look after the change many of them may decide to simply stop playing DC. And this means less users, less people who see the advertising banners...

 

I still hope the change will be temporary, or at least optional, because for me it really ruined my EG lineages, which were my favourite ones.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Iside

[Pixxelation]

IMO, the issue really lies with the fact that in longer lineages, the CB (and some other low gen) dragons' names get moved next to them, as well as the fact that in the higher gens, there is room in the boxes for larger images.

[diaveborn]

I hear you about the monetary aspect.

 

I've never donated to the site as I've never felt a need/desire to get rid of ads. But if I did down the road, I would now absolutely re-think it. It's sort of a "principle of the thing" thing for me now. As in, why would I give money to a site that would change something, without warning or asking for feedback, that so drastically impacts how a large number of their userbase actually uses the site?

 

I've only recently started breeding and don't have any personal breeding projects going on, although I do have some planned. But I am honestly wondering if I want to do that now. It's more than being bothered about how they might look. Once again it's the principle of the thing, where I wonder if I want to spend that additional time and effort doing things - putting in that time investment - on a site where something so drastic and apparently largely unwanted can happen so abruptly.

[Natayah]

I just want to restate again: I am not angry about the change. I appreciate it was something you guys were willing to work on to play around with to try and make it better because I get that there are lots of devices with very different viewing issues for this games future. Mobile, phones, tablets, laptops, computers - and more to come I"m sure.

 

My grief is that there has been _no_ response. It makes me feel disrespected. Like my style is of less value than others. And I'm sure that wasn't the purpose. Even something that just said "We are working on it - please keep your feedback positive and constructive instead of ranting as we can work better with that style of feedback."

 

That would make me 100% happy. Maybe not others, but that's all I want.

Edited July 16, 2013 by natayah

[old_duck]

I think there is also another money aspect: most older players have long completed their scroll goals, and they keep on playing because they like working on lineages. And even gen are very popular lineages.

 

If now most (according to the poll in this thread) people don't like how these lineages look after the change many of them may decide to simply stop playing DC. And this means less users, less people who see the advertising banners...

 

I still hope the change will be temporary, or at least optional, because for me it really ruined my EG lineages, which were my favourite ones. 

I completely agree. I have every breed of dragon I want except a Holly, so there is little incentive for me in just collecting. I could pop in to catch or trade for new releases, but that would not keep me here day in, day out the way breeding does. EG are also my favourites, and the new view does not do the higher gens justice, especially those with Spriters Alts, Prizes or dicontinued dragons in the first gen.

 

 

natayah  Posted on Jul 16 2013, 12:54 AM

  I just want to restate again: I am not angry about the change. I appreciate it was something you guys were willing to work on to play around with to try and make it better because I get that there are lots of devices with very different viewing issues for this games future. Mobile, phones, tablets, laptops, computers - and more to come I"m sure.

 

My grief is that there has been _no_ response. It makes me feel disrespected. Like my style is of less value than others. And I'm sure that wasn't the purpose. Even something that just said "We are working on it - please keep your feedback positive and constructive instead of ranting as we can work better with that style of feedback."

 

That would make me 100% happy. Maybe not others, but that's all I want.

 

I agree with natayah, especially the second paragraph quoted. I also feel as though higher even gens are not as highly valued, being as they are the only ones that have been negatively affected.

 

In so many discussions I've seen, for example about ways to fix the AP or keep the biomes moving, it has always been stressed that any changes should not inhibit a particular style of play - why should this change be any different?

[Confused Cat]

Now that money has been mentioned...

I don't know if there's a reason the following idea could be inappropriate, so please just tell me if you think it is.

Maybe everybody who doesn't like the current lineage view - and who can afford it - could send a symbolic donation of either 31.00$, 3.10$ or 0.31$ (because there are 31 dragons in a 5th gen lineage).

That would show the following:

1. We love DC and we support it.

2. We are not just complaining because of boredom, but because the issue really affects us and our love for DC, and it is important to us.

 

That would be a more positive message than "change it back, otherwise you'll make less money!"

 

Good idea? Bad idea?

 

(Please note this would not mean "here's money, now change it in the way we want!", but "please be aware how much DC means to us, and talk to us maybe?" Like sending a letter on real paper with a postage stamp on it, instead of an e-mail.)

 

[prpldrgnfr]

My grief is that there has been _no_ response. It makes me feel disrespected. Like my style is of less value than others. And I'm sure that wasn't the purpose. Even something that just said "We are working on it - please keep your feedback positive and constructive instead of ranting as we can work better with that style of feedback."

This so very much.

[Wiz]

My grief is that there has been _no_ response. It makes me feel disrespected. Like my style is of less value than others. And I'm sure that wasn't the purpose. Even something that just said "We are working on it - please keep your feedback positive and constructive instead of ranting as we can work better with that style of feedback."

 

That would make me 100% happy. Maybe not others, but that's all I want.

Yes. This.

[whitebaron]

Though I am in total agreement about how annoying this neglect by TJ is, I also have to say that it isn't anything new?

 

There are NEVER bugs even if they are proven time and again, ratios do never misfire even if entire races are EXTINCT in the cave, and the whole page can change at TJs whims from one day to the next, without anyone ever knowing about it upfront.

 

So anyone staying here for longer than a year will know, that one day, it might be your pet that becomes a pet peeve.

[Dinora]

Pleaseplease change the lineage view back, my beloved 5th even gens look terrible now.

[tjekan]

Now that money has been mentioned...

I don't know if there's a reason the following idea could be inappropriate, so please just tell me if you think it is.

Maybe everybody who doesn't like the current lineage view - and who can afford it - could send a symbolic donation of either 31.00$, 3.10$ or 0.31$ (because there are 31 dragons in a 5th gen lineage).

That would show the following:

1. We love DC and we support it.

2. We are not just complaining because of boredom, but because the issue really affects us and our love for DC, and it is important to us.

If you have to bribe the person who runs a free game to keep him from making the interface more unpleasant for you, it's not really a free game.

 

The complaints about TJ refusing to engage with community feedback are valid, but he's always been very upstanding about meaning "free" when he says "free." It's impossible to believe that he would implement unpopular interface changes and then reverse them or make them optional if you raise enough money. He doesn't even give paid subscribers in-game perks, so why would he take part in a scheme like that?

Edited July 16, 2013 by tjekan

[Fuzzbucket]

If you have to bribe the person who runs a free game to keep him from making the interface more unpleasant for you, it's not really a free game.

 

The complaints about TJ refusing to engage with community feedback are valid, but he's always been very upstanding about meaning "free" when he says "free." It's impossible to believe that he would implement unpopular interface changes and then reverse them or make them optional if you raise enough money. He doesn't even give paid subscribers in-game perks, so why would he take part in a scheme like that?

Right on, both about the money and about the lack of comment. And I speak as one who isn't gutted by it all. I am OK with it, myself, but I would like to hear from him why, and if he's done and so on and so forth (I do wonder if he is still working on it all and doesn't choose to talk about it till he'd done fiddling...)

Edited July 16, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Confused Cat]

It's impossible to believe that he would implement unpopular interface changes and then reverse them or make them optional if you raise enough money. He doesn't even give paid subscribers in-game perks, so why would he take part in a scheme like that?

I hope my post didn't look like that was what I meant. I thought more of a "peaceful demonstration" to induce communication. But there are probably still too many ways it could be misunderstood, so maybe the idea was really not that good. That's why I asked for opinions.

[diaveborn]

Confused Cat: I agree with others that your suggestion wouldn't really work but I totally think it's good you're trying to think of positive ways to deal with this and I get the letter versus email analogy.

 

tjekan: This may be a bit off topic, but I wouldn't call it an "interface" change, as I always thought an interface was how a user interacted with a site and not the fundamental stuff the user got out of the site, if that makes sense.

[tjekan]

tjekan: This may be a bit off topic, but I wouldn't call it an "interface" change, as I always thought an interface was how a user interacted with a site and not the fundamental stuff the user got out of the site, if that makes sense.

The reason I think of it as an interface design issue is because the only thing it actually affects is how we *view* lineages. The lineages themselves and how they are created have not changed, only the way we users are permitted to access them.

 

And as with most unpopular interface design 'updates,' user dissatisfaction could be completely solved by giving individuals the option of continuing to use the classic interface/display they are already accustomed to instead of the new one they can't stand.

Edited July 17, 2013 by tjekan

[diaveborn]

*nod* I guess I just mean that the viewing of lineages is a huge part of the actual game for a ton of people.

 

And yeah, my first reaction after "is this a bug?" was "why can't it be optional?" - I don't know a lot about coding or the behind the scenes of the game but from talking briefly to someone who does know some about programming I'm starting to think that it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to make multiple lineage view options available.

[Amazon_warrior]

I've basically stopped playing now. I log in periodically to breed eggs I've promised for others because I don't want to stiff people who don't deserve it, but I'm not taking on any more breeding commitments of any kind - I simply don't see the point any more.

[Rubin]

I'm entirely not happy about the view change, and even less happy about it only affecting even-gens. I had a really long break from DC a while ago and what made me pick up the game again was the fact that lineages got viewable and that you could breed them into lovely patterns.

 

Now I shudder when looking at any even gen dragon over 4th gen and the projects I had in mind lie dormant, because I don't see the point in breeding anything higher gen any more.

 

Before I had voted in the poll and opted to stand back and wait whether things would change. But the longer this takes the less hope I have left for the even gen lineage view to normalize or at least be made optional.

[missy_]

I have been a member of other forum communities, but never one in which the admin leader refuses to engage with the members when grievances like this are brought to his attention.

 

At this point, emotions are running high, not only over the issue itself, but compounded by TJ's silence.

 

This game may be free, but that does not excuse the admin from some basic common courtesy.

 

It is very much affecting how I view this game. I am relatively new here, and very surprised by the lack of response -- what good can come of members feeling like they are unheard? Why continue to implement a change that is clearly unpopular? I really do not understand any of this.

[Whitekeaton]

I've tried to illicit TJ's attention in a number of threads, and never once have I received a direct response. Other than this post I've basically given up on the idea that posting here is a viable method of trying to communicate with him. The most I've seen is him commenting in a couple dragon requests threads sometime during the discussion suggesting he involve himself more in that area, but that simply isn't enough to prove that he's willing to put effort into properly managing that area of the site, or is seriously considering anything else users have discussed.

 

I'm tired of putting faith in the idea that he's secretly reading these threads and secretly is working behind the scenes to make things better for us. The lack of input over the last few months is dissatisfactory enough to discourage me from actively engaging in discussion and playing the game. Maybe I'm just one user, maybe this isn't my site, and maybe I'm just one person, but the last few posts at least are evidence that other people share this sentiment. As has been said time and time again, the smallest of words would be enough to assure us that he is listening and respecting the time and thought we put into discussion and into the site, and yet for some mystery reason he remains silent.

[FortyTwo]

This game may be free, but that does not excuse the admin from some basic common courtesy.

Well said.

 

Heck, I admit I don't really do even-gens. But that's not the point, what is so hard about taking less than 2 minutes just to at least assure your community you're listening to their thoughts and comments? People are asking politely for an answer to settle them down; surely it's worth answering.

[tjekan]

The really unfortunate thing is that if he had some real reason for it, like "loading so many lineages with more than X number of dragons in it was causing lag, so I tried shrinking the icons on them" (or whatever,) I think people would have been a lot less hostile about it if he had just told us why he did it. Maybe we could even have brainstormed a solution everyone could have been happy with. And if not, I think even most of the people who hate the change might have come around to accepting it if they knew there was an actual reason why it was better for the site, rather than just "I was bored while waiting for you so thought I'd rearrange your furniture" (so to speak!)

 

But by just ignoring the whole thing, I'm sad to see it, but it's pushing some even-gen breeders to leave. And as an avid even-gen fan who does not actually hate this update, their exodus is going to hurt me a lot more than the update did. :-(