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cyradis4

Put hatchies first in AP

Which do you support?  

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I love the new AP like it is, just love it. Just.... one problem. Because of when the extra day is added (when the egg first sees the AP), the eggs in the backlog are dropping to 3 days x hours before hitting the AP and gaining their day. This is allowing some to hatch in the AP, where they go to the back of the backlog, and eventually end up in the Wild. Now, I'm pretty sure lots of people would love to give those hatchies homes, so a couple of ideas that might help with that...

 

 

Sort the AP by date caught / bred

(or simply toss hatchies in the AP first, just like Holidays have been sorting first)

- This will force all the hatchies to appear first.

- It might create a wall of hatchies, forcing the eggs to drop in time, but if it does I doubt it'll last long.

 

Or

 

Stop adding an extra day to abandoned eggs

- This will put the eggs and hatchies that hatch in the AP on equal footing once the AP equalizes.

- There will still be a chance for eggs to hatch on the AP and the hatchies to eventually escape into the wild

- Given that the AP isn't dropping below 3d 23 hr for any length of time since the change, if some do escape into the wild it shouldn't be many.

- Things would be lively for the first week or so in the AP if this were implemented, but I'm pretty sure it would return to the status quo: eggs just above ER status, in short order

 

 

 

My own preference would be for the first option, but it isn't a strong preference.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Yes! I loved it when the hatchies were in the front of the AP.

I'm not a big fan of the new AP not blocking the cave, and I'd really like for the hatchlings to be sorted first, AND for the extra-day thing to be removed, because since all the eggs are at 4-something days when they reach the front of the AP, they really don't need an extra day added.

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I think it'd be best if abandoned eggs didn't gain a day. That'd solve the problem and probably help reduce the AP backlog too. Not that the backlog is really a problem these days, but still.

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This is allowing some to hatch in the AP, where they go to the back of the backlog, and eventually end up in the Wild.

Yeah, this makes me a bit sad when it happens, too. Hatchlings are picked up really quickly because they don't scroll-lock as much as eggs, so I don't think they need to be kept from the AP.

 

Currently, if someone abandons a hatchling with enough views to mature at or near the 4d mark, they might as well send it directly to the wild with how things are set up now - not that that's possible without sacrificing a freeze slot, but my point is that you're not really sending the hatchling to the public AP. It's never going to appear on the (visible page of the) AP, after all.

 

That being said, the gained day itself isn't the problem; the fact the egg/hatchling doesn't have a hatching behaviour in accordance with that gained day, however, is. And that being said... nonetheless, I like both proposed solutions! smile.gif I think implementing both, rather than either one or the other, is also a viable option. Either way, great suggestion - thanks for making it!

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I think both suggestions should be added. Hatchies first AND no extra day, at least for eggs that are over 1 day left. Extra day has never made sense for the older eggs/hatchlings. It only has a use for eggs abandoned on the verge of death so the person who picks it up can actually raise it before it dies. As for hatchies, the other solution would be to prevent them from going to the wilderness. But I think it's easier and better to just have hatchlings sort before eggs.

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Would it make a difference if the extra day for the AP was added immediately rather than after it drops to ~3 days 3-5 hours?

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Would it make a difference if the extra day for the AP was added immediately rather than after it drops to ~3 days 3-5 hours?

Most eggs are dropped at either 7d or 6d 19h. So.... You can't add a full day without going over the 7 day limit. And if you're just going to add back at most 5 hours, why not do away with the addition entirely?

 

As for how it would help the sorting, I'd assume if the day was added when the egg dumped, that it would help the hatchie situation.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I voted for hatchlings first. I'm not opposed to doing away with the added day, just not sure how it effects things, exactly. I think hatchlings should be listed before eggs regardless of how 'adding days' is handled.

 

If you think about it, a hatchling has, at most, 7 days to grow up. An egg has 14 (if you take it really slow). So they should be listed as the lowest time things because they are the lowest time things in the AP. I hope that makes as much sense as it does in my head...

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I voted for hatchlings first as well. It's confusing (and makes them harder to catch) when hatchlings appear in multiple lines in the AP; sometimes they appear in the bottom row, sometimes in the middle... this would take away that variable.

 

And GhostMouse, your logic makes sense to me. smile.gif

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If you think about it, a hatchling has, at most, 7 days to grow up. An egg has 14 (if you take it really slow). So they should be listed as the lowest time things because they are the lowest time things in the AP. I hope that makes as much sense as it does in my head...

Makes sense to me. A while ago, I let drop a couple of nicely lineaged silver hatchlings and they grew up in the Wild. I was disappointed because I wanted them to go to someone. I think they never even made it to the front page of the AP before they grew up because of the times on them. So yeah, I think moving hatchlings to the front would be best.

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I think both suggestions should be added. Hatchies first AND no extra day, at least for eggs that are over 1 day left. Extra day has never made sense for the older eggs/hatchlings. It only has a use for eggs abandoned on the verge of death so the person who picks it up can actually raise it before it dies. As for hatchies, the other solution would be to prevent them from going to the wilderness. But I think it's easier and better to just have hatchlings sort before eggs.

Ditto for me too. 100% support for BOTH ideas.

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Maybe simply order the AP to show time to grow to adulthood. That would automatically put hatchies at the top. (It would also mean maybe that no eggs showed up sometimes - but I can live with that ! I don't think I've ever seen a hatchie last through a page refresh :xd.png )

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*mourns all the hatchies that are going to the wilderness*

 

Yea, that. I just grabbed a hatchie from the AP that is 1 hour from growing. I'm pretty sure we're having hatchies by the bucket load escaping to the Wilderness without hitting the AP.

 

So, bumping this back up and hoping that TJ sees it and does something about all the escapees.

 

C4.

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*mourns all the hatchies that are going to the wilderness*

 

Yea, that. I just grabbed a hatchie from the AP that is 1 hour from growing. I'm pretty sure we're having hatchies by the bucket load escaping to the Wilderness without hitting the AP. 

 

So, bumping this back up and hoping that TJ sees it and does something about all the escapees.

 

C4.

I don't think that quite happens.

 

All of the eggs/hatchlings in the AP are sorted by time left. Since all of the eggs shown are around 4d1h, if a hatchling hit 4d (AKA close to or at growing potential), it'd show up in the mix. It's not like the AP is prioritizing eggs and hiding low time hatchlings or anything.

 

Also, the extra day removal isn't actually applied until the egg/hatchling is picked up.

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Right now a lot of the eggs are at 4 days. But it wouldn't be hard at all for us to gather statistics to prove one way or the other whether a significant portion of abandoned hatchlings are ending up in the wilderness.

 

1. Gather an egg or eggs.

2. Record the codes

3. Hatch them

4. Abandon the hatchlings

5. Check on where they end up when they grow up

 

Example: I just picked up s3l9k, yBWuv and h4j7R. Let's see what happens to the hatchlings once they hatch and are abandoned. If things are happening as TJ thinks, they'll most likely end up on someone's scroll. If the concerns expressed by this thread is really what is happening, then more than one will end up in the wilderness.

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I'm locked with the new release but would be glad to help with this experiment once my eggs start hatching, if it would help. The more data, the better, right?

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I don't think that quite happens.

 

All of the eggs/hatchlings in the AP are sorted by time left. Since all of the eggs shown are around 4d1h, if a hatchling hit 4d (AKA close to or at growing potential), it'd show up in the mix. It's not like the AP is prioritizing eggs and hiding low time hatchlings or anything.

 

Also, the extra day removal isn't actually applied until the egg/hatchling is picked up.

So it sounds like the AP pile would have to consistently have eggs sitting there with three days or less left before hatchlings would have the potential to start growing up wild in significant numbers? I'm not really seeing anything on the AP get close to three days left, unless someone just abandons it with less. Even with the release night, things seemed to drop to around 3 days, 20 hours or so.

 

I can see how this would start happening if the AP got so big that eggs did start regularly showing up on the front page with two to three days left, and in that case I would like to see the hatchies come first, but right now it looks like it'll stabilize again at the 4 days+ mark.

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For any egg picked up from the AP, hatched and then re-abandoned, it shouldn't matter because the extra day is only added once when it was first abandoned as an egg. As long the resultant hatchie doesn't have a crap-load of views AND the AP queue doesn't dip below 4d1h, it will show up to be grabbed.

 

However, I *have* watched an egg I bred and abandoned hatch and then grow up in the AP (and watched the same happen to other eggs too). If an egg is added to any hatcheries before being first abandoned, likely as not it'll never see the light of day.

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For any egg picked up from the AP, hatched and then re-abandoned, it shouldn't matter because the extra day is only added once when it was first abandoned as an egg. As long the resultant hatchie doesn't have a crap-load of views AND the AP queue doesn't dip below 4d1h, it will show up to be grabbed.

 

However, I *have* watched an egg I bred and abandoned hatch and then grow up in the AP (and watched the same happen to other eggs too). If an egg is added to any hatcheries before being first abandoned, likely as not it'll never see the light of day.

As TJ says, how does that happen other than on release days? The AP is time sorted, and the vast majority of the time the eggs are above 4 days, so a time sorted AP would show the hatchling before it was old enough to grow up. The only way that would happen without a glitch would be for it to be sent to the wild before it grew up.

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As TJ says, how does that happen other than on release days?  The AP is time sorted, and the vast majority of the time the eggs are above 4 days, so a time sorted AP would show the hatchling before it was old enough to grow up.  The only way that would happen without a glitch would be for it to be sent to the wild before it grew up.

Ok. *puts on Explaining Hat*

 

 

Say that all the eggs showing in the AP are showing 4d12h. The extra day is added *only* when an egg appears on the AP page and is picked up. That means that all those eggs have actually been sitting in the AP queue until they reached 3d12h. BUT! If they've been added to hatcheries with auto-ER facilities (Silvis and EATW spring to mind), that 12 hours between 4d and 3d12h is plenty of time for them to be ER'd and hatch. The 7d hatchie is then shuffled to the back of the AP queue, where it again will tick down to 3d12h before showing on the AP. Except it *won't* show up. It's still in those hatcheries and will be auto-ER'ed when it reaches 4d, and will grow up and go wild.

 

Seriously, I've watched this process with several eggs (my own and others) during periods where there were no releases, and all grew up in the AP and went wild.

 

I really think that the added day should be got rid of - whatever use it may have served in the past, I'd say it's outlived its usefulness now.

 

 

ETA: You can often see the "real" time on an AP egg if you click it when locked and then check the egg's view page. If it's never been picked up by anyone since it was abandoned, it'll show one day less on the egg's page than it does on the AP.

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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I think it would be nice if the extra day was added to the eggs only after they are taken - this way, an egg which was taken from the cave 3,5 days ago (at 3d12h in reality, displayedcurrently as 4d12h on the page) could not hatch even if it has the stats for that. It would truly have 4d12, then the taker can (incu)hatch it and no AP-hatched hatchlings would be running around. And I absolutely support the "hatchlings first" option. Maybe along with the "sort by bred date" one.

 

But please don't take away the extra day. Some might need it, and I'm not only referring to neglecters.

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Give it only to those with 3 days or less, then. That keeps any eggs between 2 and 3 days extra time to influence, but eggs will stay at 4 days or less even with the extra time.

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Yep, hatchies are escaping into the Wild in good numbers. Proof:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/TBeGy

 

I abandoned that dragon when it was at about 5d 12h or so as an egg, when the new release came in. And as you can see, it's got a fabulous lineage. Had it hit the AP even once, it would have been kept.

 

And yes, it was in fansites when I abandoned it.

 

In fact, I suspect almost all of the eggs abandoned as a result of the new release ended up in the Wilderness without even hitting the AP once. Which is a real shame, because such eggs are usually the best.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Is there any indication that this is happening to eggs or hatchlings other than those that were left in fansites after being abandoned and/or put into fansites while still in the AP?

 

If not, than another way to address the issue would simply be to block growing things from being able to receive views and clicks unless they have an owner. After all, they're supposed to be 'rejected and dying' in the Abandoned Pile, not being nurtured, fed, and cared for- if a young dragon can get everything it needs to grow and thrive without humans, why shouldn't it grow up feral?

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