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cyradis4

Send Biome Blockers to the AP

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Came up in another thread, bumping this up.

 

With the AP rotating like it does, I think I'd prefer it if the time to abandon was just cut waaaay back.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Came up in another thread, bumping this up.

 

With the AP rotating like it does, I think I'd prefer it if the time to abandon was just cut waaaay back.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

 

Thanks, cyradis4, quite timely for those of us who, despite the improvement with the 5-minute egg-shuffle, grit their teeth before going to the Cave to refresh on what's generally generally a boring waste of time.

 

Many of us have enough of the eggs we see in the biomes to do us right now and we're often looking for things we need more of and never even see.

 

I've been trying to get up the energy to check out the Cave for several hours, but it's usually pretty boring and depressing in there... and lately the AP seems to be mostly walls of messy breds, too. sad.gif

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Not really seeing the Biomes' movement as a problem today - went in to see, except for the Forest, they all moved along nicely as eggs were taken. Maybe people just want instant gratification?

 

I could see the Abandoned time cut down to maybe three hours - five DOES seem a little 'draconian' tongue.gif

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Not really seeing the Biomes' movement as a problem today - went in to see, except for the Forest, they all moved along nicely as eggs were taken. Maybe people just want instant gratification?

 

I could see the Abandoned time cut down to maybe three hours - five DOES seem a little 'draconian' tongue.gif

I can live with 5 hours, but I WOULD like to see it made possible to teleport an egg within that five hours. So you could trade it but NOT abandon it - and nor could the recipient.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I can live with 5 hours,

 

Being forced to keep misclicks for 5 hours is the biggest turn off and I've never understood the real purpose of it. Does it benefit the game overall somehow? It sure doesn't benefit me. I have this vision in my head of walking into a cave and seeing a nest of eggs... and they're huge...I reach for one, but the pile shifts and I grab another by accident..and the thing is somehow glued to my hands like cement and I'm forced to lug it around for the next 5 hours...

 

 

If I don't want that egg the first minute, I'm not going to want it 5 hours later...one way or another it's getting dumped in the AP, be it within one minute or 5 hours. It's especially irritating when there's a new release and literally within hours other eggs are mixing in already.

 

What is the purpose of this wait?

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Being forced to keep misclicks for 5 hours is the biggest turn off and I've never understood the real purpose of it. Does it benefit the game overall somehow? It sure doesn't benefit me. I have this vision in my head of walking into a cave and seeing a nest of eggs...I reach for one, but the pile shifts and I grab another by accident..and the thing is somehow glued to my hands like cement and I'm forced to lug it around for the next 5 hours...

 

 

If I don't want that egg the first minute, I'm not going to want it 5 hours later...one way or another it's getting dumped in the AP, be it within one minute or 5 hours. It's especially irritating when there's a new release and literally within hours other eggs are mixing in already.

 

What is the purpose of this wait?

In my view - it's to stop people who are looking for rares catching and dumping every last egg in the biomes, making it that much harder for people who went there actually looking for a specific type - a common,of the type rare hunters would just tip into the AP - to find one.

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I imagine it's to keep people from, say, grabbing a bunch of CB Halloweens, trading them for rare hatchies / IOUs, and then restocking instantly. Same logic probably applies to rare hunting, although obviously that probably takes a lot longer to do and isn't really slowed down by it.

 

Oh, also! People could grab a bunch of blockers, dump them to the AP, then go back again--letting people trawl the slower moving biomes to try to find shinies.

 

So as much as I hate it, I see why it's there.

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Ah, ok...I didn't look at it that way. I never trade so didn't think along those lines, but yeah, that makes perfect sense. I can definitely see how that would be a problem. Thanks for the reply Fuzz, ADP.

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Some sort of wait is deff needed, the question is... Is the full 5 hours necessary? Or would a shorter one serve, by keeping people from emptying a biome in one go but still letting them *move* said biomes by shifting blockers to the AP?

 

Just shuffling the eggs at 5 minutes isn't getting the job done, truth to tell. The blockers are getting worst, not better, it seems. So... Something to shift the ones spending the most time in the biomes being not picked up would be, to me, a very good addition...

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I could go for a 1-2 hour drop in time for the CD. Honestly 5 seems a tad too long to me. Like not enough to really bug me, but it kinda does. So maybe drop it to 3 hours. That would be nice. Its not too long but its also not super quick cuz I mean, 3 hours are 3 hours.

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Just shuffling the eggs at 5 minutes isn't getting the job done, truth to tell. The blockers are getting worst, not better, it seems.

 

Ain't that the truth. dry.gif

 

Can eggs in the biomes...disappear? What about a 'disappear' BSA? You snag a misclick...you use the 'disappear' BSA of your dragon and POOF!, it's like the misclick never even existed. It goes without saying that it wouldn't work every time, or even most times. But even if it worked a few times now and again, that's at least something. Or what about a 'Morph' BSA? You grab a misclick...you don't want it. You use the 'Morph' BSA and it turns it into another, random type of egg. You might get a mint. You might get a Blusang. You might even get a Gold. Or it just doesn't work and you're stuck. ha ha

 

I don't and haven't spent too much time dwelling on game mechanics, so not sure how that would work, or how it would affect the cave. It would surely get rid of some unwanted eggs, while not clogging the AP up. At this point, I'm all for anything, anything at all, that gets the cave to MOVE.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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Actually, people have been pointing out that the AP generally doesn't get down to ER/Incuhatchable status very often anymore, and adding in a significant increase from Cave Blockers, (whether from a one or two-hour cool-down for Cave catches or directly from the Cave on a much faster basis that the current shuffle or whatever's going on - or both) should solve this nicely.

 

Presumably this could be shut off during Releases and periods where biomes are empty?

 

Personally, I totally load up on CB commons I wouldn't ordinarily take whenever the AP IS full of sufficiently low-time eggs which can be immediately ERed - a lot of us will, where we don't want messy bred ones we can't use (some of us don't Freeze hatchies) and might accidentally breed, especially since we still haven't got access to the lineage pages on the breeding pages and when overtired can make some truly horrible errors.

 

But hunting the biomes has long been a boring ordeal for a lot of people, so possibly? a fix along the line of the most common dragons forming a varied pool rather than being on separate ratios? (as seems to be the case?) so that more variety would be the norm - combined with ideally something that isn't dependent on players wasting their leisure time taking unwanted eggs to increase movement - would, I think, really help people regain interest.

 

Whether or not my particular suggestions are laughable for reasons I have no idea of, something needs to be done, because as it stands, Cave hunting (and often AP hunting with all of the messy breds of late,) typically just feels like a boring waste of time.

 

And that's a waste of a perfectly good facility on a game that's supposed to be fun.

 

Edit: mix and match punctuation? xd.png I'ze breakin' new ground!

Edited by Syphoneira

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This just seems to be another case of "Rares are rare. Why do I have a hard time finding rares? Why are commons common instead of rares?". Entirely missing that if they weren't rare you wouldn't even want them so much. It would also turn the entire AP into nothing but unwanted eggs sitting there at near-7 days on their death clock, which unlike the biomes won't even have the courtesy to shuffle every five minutes from a pool of completely random eggs, since the only things that are going to be going there are the ones that weren't uncommon enough to get picked up from the biomes in the first place. And all those bred eggs? Probably going to sit there and die behind it.

 

As it is right now, biomes move every five minutes at the worst, and the AP every few seconds. This is more optimal than five minutes and in no meaningful way, respectively.

Edited by BlindWolf

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This just seems to be another case of "Rares are rare. Why do I have a hard time finding rares? Why are commons common instead of rares?". Entirely missing that if they weren't rare you wouldn't even want them so much.

That's not actually true. I've been sitting here for - quite a while - hunting the glories I needed. Sure if I'd seen a gold I'd have grabbed it - having my OWN second CB male would make building lineages without begging easier - but my need for glories is greater.

 

I want what I need for lineages, me.

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This just seems to be another case of "Rares are rare. Why do I have a hard time finding rares? Why are commons common instead of rares?". Entirely missing that if they weren't rare you wouldn't even want them so much. It would also turn the entire AP into nothing but unwanted eggs sitting there at near-7 days on their death clock, which unlike the biomes won't even have the courtesy to shuffle every five minutes from a pool of completely random eggs, since the only things that are going to be going there are the ones that weren't uncommon enough to get picked up from the biomes in the first place. And all those bred eggs? Probably going to sit there and die behind it.

 

As it is right now, biomes move every five minutes at the worst, and the AP every few seconds. This is more optimal than five minutes and in no meaningful way, respectively.

 

 

 

 

Hi, BlindWolf! smile.gif

 

Actually, it really boils down to a case of wanting the biomes to be more responsive to what their environment (us!) can support, and to not wanting to be bored out of our trees and falling asleep while trying to hunt, in a game we play to have fun.

 

There are lots of commons/uncommons that various people might want, but we have a choice between the 3 showing at any particular time in any particular biome and the people in that biome might well have no interest in or room for any of these, whether because not fond of those sprites or because of already having enough of them.

 

People are typically here to collect dragons they want/can use, have only so much space for growing dragons, and are here to relax and have fun, not refresh on dragons they have no current use for and which may lock them for 5 hours if they pick any up to get them out of the way.

 

The 5-minute shuffle helped, but not enough.

 

Also, there have been people suggesting that more eggs being added to the AP would help produce more ER/Incuhatchable eggs which, when useful, (CBs and nice lineages which people can use) are highly desirable and eagerly snapped up.

 

Additionally, your 'rares' are often not valued because they're rare, but because they're required to continue lineages, or valued for their sprites or needed for scroll goals - which is undoubtedly why they've become so rare and why trade values are higher than much of the market can bear - and that rarity and those high trade values are nothing more than an annoyance and hindrance to many people who want the sprites for breeding lines or for scroll goals.

 

DC is a family site game which has developed a lot since its inception, and which has more of a community than more simplistic games seem to have.

 

People play here for different and more reasons than simply collecting the rarest dragons, which is why so many people are long-term despite long-running issues which for them spoils much of their leisure time.

 

Also, people and animals both get discouraged over time when repeating the same actions without many positive results - that's known as a 'learning experience', lol, and is basic to psychology.

 

The 'gambler's trap' of thinking that a random device may produce something worth waiting for only works so long on most of us, even if it has taken years in some cases, lol.

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I'm not even looking for rares. I've been after more of the bright pink Pyralspites since they came out. I haven't so much as laid eyes on one since. Are they supposed to be rares? I thought they were commons, or at the most, uncommon, but they might as well not exist in the cave for all I've seen them. Same for many breeds that are supposed to be commons! They might as well be rares.

 

biomes move every five minutes at the worst

 

Like I said before, like watching the earth rotate as you're standing in your yard staring up at the stars for all it's noticeable. Oh sure, one egg might pop up at the 5 minute mark...but they're the same eggs you see blocking everything else, every single day, over and over and over and over...!..A lot of times the 5 minutes comes and goes and the same egg is still sitting there and won't budge. I don't see much improvement, if any at all.

 

Frankly, hunting sucks. It's boring. It's stale. It's old. I dread doing it.

 

It would also turn the entire AP into nothing but unwanted eggs sitting there at near-7 days on their death clock,

 

As for the AP, if those eggs went poof within 24 hours I'd be thrilled. Having them sit there for that long is a little ridiculous. If nobody snags the egg in a day, at the most, two, it's probably not going to get snagged and should simply disappear out of existence imo.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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That's not actually true. I've been sitting here for - quite a while - hunting the glories I needed. Sure if I'd seen a gold I'd have grabbed it - having my OWN second CB male would make building lineages without begging easier - but my need for glories is greater.

 

I want what I need for lineages, me.

 

I don't mean to say that's the only possible advantage to this, but you do end up seeing a lot of suggestions with that motive, even if it's not the one of everyone who supports it.

 

 

 

 

Hi, BlindWolf!  smile.gif

 

Actually, it really boils down to a case of wanting the biomes to be more responsive to what their environment (us!) can support, and to not wanting to be bored out of our trees and falling asleep while trying to hunt, in a game we play to have fun.

 

There are lots of commons/uncommons that various people might want, but we have a choice between the 3 showing at any particular time in any particular biome and the people in that biome might well have no interest in or room for any of these, whether because not fond of those sprites or because of already having enough of them.

 

People are typically here to collect dragons they want/can use, have only so much space for growing dragons, and are here to relax and have fun, not refresh on dragons they have no current use for and which may lock them for 5 hours if they pick any up to get them out of the way.

 

The 5-minute shuffle helped, but not enough.

 

Also, there have been people suggesting that more eggs being added to the AP would help produce more ER/Incuhatchable eggs which, when useful, (CBs and nice lineages which people can use) are highly desirable and eagerly snapped up.

 

Additionally, your 'rares' are often not valued because they're rare, but because they're required to continue lineages, or valued for their sprites or needed for scroll goals - which is undoubtedly why they've become so rare and why trade values are higher than much of the market can bear - and that rarity and those high trade values are nothing more than an annoyance and hindrance to many people who want the sprites for breeding lines or for scroll goals.

 

DC is a family site game which has developed a lot since its inception, and which has more of a community than more simplistic games seem to have.

 

People play here for different and more reasons than simply collecting the rarest dragons, which is why so many people are long-term despite long-running issues which for them spoils much of their leisure time.

 

Also, people and animals both get discouraged over time when repeating the same actions without many positive results - that's known as a 'learning experience', lol, and is basic to psychology.

 

The 'gambler's trap' of thinking that a random device may produce something worth waiting for only works so long on most of us, even if it has taken years in some cases, lol.

 

Personally I have a hard time getting bored looking for eggs, since I've always followed the drop (and more recently the shuffle). Have I missed eggs? I'm sure, but I also don't end up having to stare at things too long.

 

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that having a larger number of high-time eggs into the AP will somehow result in it being filled with more low-time ones. It's not like it wraps around, or that very common dragons at high times will be picked up there more often than they would in the cave. People snap up the CB commons on the AP because of their low times. So they end up sitting there. The only way I can see that working out is if they get time deducted when tossed into the AP. There's also the fact of how it unfairly disadvantages bred eggs, to the point where they're likely to die if they end up there since they're being buried in ones from the cave. Breeding isn't solely to make eggs for a lineage, and I'm sure it'd upset a fair number of people if their dragon's offspring just dies. I know I've heard words to that effect before.

 

A lot of lineages probably prize them for their rarity, though obviously not all. Same with the sprite collection, it becomes a drive to obtain one because it isn't easy to get otherwise. In the end that's also a matter of rarity, where it's rare for rare's sake or rare for x's sake. I understand you wanting then to not be so rare, but I think adjusting their ratios would do you more good there than in trying to throw more eggs to the AP so they get out of the way faster, as far as general site health goes.

 

Well yeah, there's a big random element, but that's sort of up front with most of these games. Most of us know metallics are rare, and what drops in the biomes is random, and that not being able to find what you want can be tedious and frustrating, but short of eliminating rarity or randomness I don't think anything can be done about that.

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I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that having a larger number of high-time eggs into the AP will somehow result in it being filled with more low-time ones. It's not like it wraps around, or that very common dragons at high times will be picked up there more often than they would in the cave. People snap up the CB commons on the AP because of their low times. So they end up sitting there. The only way I can see that working out is if they get time deducted when tossed into the AP. There's also the fact of how it unfairly disadvantages bred eggs, to the point where they're likely to die if they end up there since they're being buried in ones from the cave. Breeding isn't solely to make eggs for a lineage, and I'm sure it'd upset a fair number of people if their dragon's offspring just dies. I know I've heard words to that effect before.

You don't AP hunt, that is clear, or you'd understand better how the mechanics work. I hunt the AP. I also recover auto-ed eggs on a regular basis. Here's how the AP actually works:

 

- Friend A breeds an egg, it auto's. Oops! They want it back.

- I save the code of the egg, checking it.

- It sits in the AP backlog. 1 day. 2 days.

- Its time is now 5d 12hrs. This is the current time of the AP. However, the AP adds a day when an egg first shows, so, I have to wait 24 more hours.

- 24 hours later. The egg is showing 4d 13h, to the AP's 5d 12h. I know that in an hour, it will show.

I start refreshing the AP / the auto-ed egg

- I grab every egg of the right breed, check, abandon.

- Within an hour, I have rescued the auto-ed egg, and give it back to Friend A.

 

This is something that I've done, and do, on a regular basis, and I very rarely miss a common.

 

The 7 day eggs from the Biomes will do the EXACT SAME THING (which is what they do now when people abandon them after the 5 hr wait). They will sit in the AP backlog with all other eggs for 2.5 days, then they will show up in the AP. Since it would then be 12 hrs from being incu-hatchable, a much MUCH wider selection of users would be willing to pick it up.

 

I WILL keep most CB commons from the AP if they are a few hours from incu-hatchable.

I WILL NOT keep those same blockers as 7 day eggs from the Biomes.

 

Also, destroying the eggs in the backlog would hurt the ratios really badly. Because a large number of people are like me: will happily pick up *extra* low time eggs, that we normally wouldn't, IF they are low time. If you get rid of the backlog (and low time eggs), then the ratios will skew really badly and blockers will go from being irritating to ALL that there is.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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You don't AP hunt, that is clear, or you'd understand better how the mechanics work. I hunt the AP. I also recover auto-ed eggs on a regular basis. Here's how the AP actually works:

 

- Friend A breeds an egg, it auto's. Oops! They want it back.

- I save the code of the egg, checking it.

- It sits in the AP backlog. 1 day. 2 days.

- Its time is now 5d 12hrs. This is the current time of the AP. However, the AP adds a day when an egg first shows, so, I have to wait 24 more hours.

- 24 hours later. The egg is showing 4d 13h, to the AP's 5d 12h. I know that in an hour, it will show.

I start refreshing the AP / the auto-ed egg

- I grab every egg of the right breed, check, abandon.

- Within an hour, I have rescued the auto-ed egg, and give it back to Friend A.

 

This is something that I've done, and do, on a regular basis, and I very rarely miss a common.

 

The 7 day eggs from the Biomes will do the EXACT SAME THING (which is what they do now when people abandon them after the 5 hr wait). They will sit in the AP backlog with all other eggs for 2.5 days, then they will show up in the AP. Since it would then be 12 hrs from being incu-hatchable, a much MUCH wider selection of users would be willing to pick it up.

 

I WILL keep most CB commons from the AP if they are a few hours from incu-hatchable.

I WILL NOT keep those same blockers as 7 day eggs from the Biomes.

 

Also, destroying the eggs in the backlog would hurt the ratios really badly. Because a large number of people are like me: will happily pick up *extra* low time eggs, that we normally wouldn't, IF they are low time. If you get rid of the backlog (and low time eggs), then the ratios will skew really badly and blockers will go from being irritating to ALL that there is.

 

Cheers!

C4.

That depends entirely on what your definition of hunt is. I don't use a structured process, but I have and do spend quite a bit of time there. I'm pretty sure most people in there are going to be doing something more basic than all that.

 

The mistake here is in assuming that the overall amount of eggs in the AP will stay the same. Since all of these new 7 day eggs are being tossed in there, without a comparative increase in user number (but not a comparative increase in bred egg number) or average AP pickups from users, there's going to be a heavier amount of eggs in the AP than before. That will also increase average stay in the AP, and thus also the average time-until-death on all of the eggs in the AP.

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That depends entirely on what your definition of hunt is. I don't use a structured process, but I have and do spend quite a bit of time there. I'm pretty sure most people in there are going to be doing something more basic than all that.

 

The mistake here is in assuming that the overall amount of eggs in the AP will stay the same. Since all of these new 7 day eggs are being tossed in there, without a comparative increase in user number (but not a comparative increase in bred egg number) or average AP pickups from users, there's going to be a heavier amount of eggs in the AP than before. That will also increase average stay in the AP, and thus also the average time-until-death on all of the eggs in the AP.

Average time of death does not matter.

 

All that matters is the LOWEST time-to-death, because only the 30 *lowest* show.

More eggs in the AP backlog = LOWER time-to-death on the 30 showing.

Which means.... Lower time eggs.

Which means... More people will pick up the incu-hatchable eggs. Eggs which would not have been touched in the Biomes.

 

Many people (like myself) won't touch an egg we don't already need if its up at 6d. But if that exact same egg is at 5d, we will pick it up and keep it. We don't need it, and would not have picked it up if it was up around 6d. But we will keep it, and hatch it, so it adds to the ratios, if its around 5 days.

 

And even at Holidays, it only takes a matter of HOURS for AP stalkers to bring the lowest time eggs up to 4d+ after the backlog of Holidays clears. From 0d.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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This idea looks very promising, but there comes another issue... I suppose that almost every common egg appearing in Biomes would end in the AP because why pick up a common egg at 7 days if you can easily obtain the same egg at 5 days or less? As a result, nobody would bother to catch commons from Biomes, maybe except code hunters. I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing or not, just... I don't know if it is right considering the game mechanism.

 

There were suggestions about introducing new biomes, seasonal migration of certain breeds etc. Maybe something similar would solve the problem better.

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This idea looks very promising, but there comes another issue... I suppose that almost every common egg appearing in Biomes would end in the AP because why pick up a common egg at 7 days if you can easily obtain the same egg at 5 days or less? As a result, nobody would bother to catch commons from Biomes, maybe except code hunters. I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing or not, just... I don't know if it is right considering the game mechanism.

 

There were suggestions about introducing new biomes, seasonal migration of certain breeds etc. Maybe something similar would solve the problem better.

 

 

Well, many players already have enough of various of the most common types to get on with and don't really want more, so relatively few people are taking them in the Cave to begin with, and the player population can't keep up with the numbers being pumped out, because the players are typically playing to raise/breed/gift/trade the dragons they want - not slogging along raising ones they don't.

 

BUT if they're insta-hatch, we may virtually lock ourselves with CB hatchies of sprites we wouldn't otherwise bother with.

 

There are just too many of certain spites being produced for the population to support and this has been the case for a very long time.

 

If an ecology isn't balanced by a reduction in over-production, then somebody needs to put out hay to artificially sustain that population.

 

Only in a real ecology, there's a die-off sad.gif with a consequent drop in population and re-population rates to a level at which they can hopefully maintain reasonable levels without causing further damage to the environment inadequate to support those higher numbers, something which we don't have here - they just keep getting pumped out to crowd out other species so they rarely show.

 

So, since we have no adaptive population controls, we need to work around from the opposite side and make the excessive numbers less of a game-killing pain by making it easier for players to take on more of these dragons without locking up their precious egg spaces.

 

It might help if the super-commons formed a manageable-sized and environment/player-responsive pool, with weighting toward the more desirable/newer ones more likely to 'survive' by being picked up willingly by players, but this doesn't appear to be anything likely to occur, and of course, I have no idea of what would be involved in so doing.

 

But we'd also need to keep adding new commons to this pool, ideally reducing those in that ecological niche least likely to survive through adoption to compensate, so that there would be a steadily increasing mix of multiple rodent species, so to speak, in the common category, rather than seeing the same ones at all times and little else.

 

This would alter the concept of individual commons so that individual species would no longer be blockers, but the proportion of large... say, carnivores? 'rares' would stay the same with regard to that common pool.

 

Obviously, this is not going to happen, though...

 

 

New biomes would logically result in even fewer players in each and, one could anticipate, in even less variety and movement, should fewer sprites be allotted to each one as a result.

 

Seasonal migration means that virtually everyone is unable to access needed dragons/continue lineages at some point or another, and adds a less varied increase in the other super-common types of a then more limited pool, logically resulting in worse blocking.

 

 

Others knowing more about this than I (lol, meaning practically anyone,) have suggested that this hyper-common production ratio system being used was developed for a much smaller site and it is evident that the more the site grows, the greater the problem becomes.

 

The only feasible player work-around seems to be that of having these super-commons bounced out to appear in the AP, ideally as ERs.

 

 

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I like this idea but I don't think it' very likely to happen and I think we could solve this problem ourselves by forming blocker "hunting parties".

 

Although we'd need 540 people willing to grab and dump two blockers every five hours. Okay I admit getting 540 people to do that is unlikely so maybe we couldn't solve the problem but we could make a dent in it perhaps.

 

Edit: I'm wondering what would happen if all 36 eggs in each biome all appeared at once on the hour. Pure chaos probably but it would be an interesting experiment.

Edited by Cireth

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