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Send Biome Blockers to the AP

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I was thinking several days before replying, but it seems like now is the right time.

What is problem of "blockers", if you ask personally me? Answer is easy: Sprites. Sprites are main problem. Not to be rude, harsh, or, what is even worse - ignorant. I know that artists worked hard on each sprite and worked even harder to get them approved. Its just something, that needs to be, perhaps, updated.

About previously mentioned nocturnes, lets take them as an example. As far as i have seen [at least last 2-3 months] those eggs are going off fast. Their unique sprite change at night is one of the main reasons. Then, lets take Nebulas - they are uncommon by now, but lets look why: Sprites. Yeah, again and again. I think if something needs to be changed/renovated/updated are sprites. So people look up to those dragons with will to have them on their scroll.

And let me mention it twice: I don`t want to be rude and harsh to artists, who did their job. Its just my opinion. Thats why my vote goes to "no" - biomes shall remain as they are.

Im done here, i guess.

Edited by Nevemore

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Just so you know, Nevemore, Nocturnes have been a notorious blocker. Your theory that just updating sprites would fix this kind of falls on that argument.

 

Dragons that are seen as not having value for trades are generally the worst blockers. Rares, or those with BSAs or multiple colors seem least likely to be blockers.

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I was thinking several days before replying, but it seems like now is the right time.

What is problem of "blockers", if you ask personally me? Answer is easy: Sprites. Sprites are main problem. Not to be rude, harsh, or, what is even worse - ignorant. I know that artists worked hard on each sprite and worked even harder to get them approved. Its just something, that needs to be, perhaps, updated.

About previously mentioned nocturnes, lets take them as an example. As far as i have seen [at least last 2-3 months] those eggs are going off fast. Their unique sprite change at night is one of the main reasons. Then, lets take Nebulas - they are uncommon by now, but lets look why: Sprites. Yeah, again and again. I think if something needs to be changed/renovated/updated are sprites. So people look up to those dragons with will to have them on their scroll.

And let me mention it twice: I don`t want to be rude and harsh to artists, who did their job. Its just my opinion. Thats why my vote goes to "no" - biomes shall remain as they are.

Im done here, i guess.

I don't quite (at all) get what you are saying. That some sprites are more popular than others ? But we all have different views. The sprites I like best are despised by others; on the other hand I can't understand THEIR love for other sprites. I know people who are collecting as many as they CAN of the sprite I like least - because they love it.

 

We are all different and so are our preferences. My favourite dragon is the one you will never pick up, probably. But I don't WANT sprites "updated" They are what they are and we base lineages on them. When they change, it can spoil the look of the lineage. Many of us are still smarting over the change in the golds. I like the changes to the whiptails; I know someone who stopped collecting them the day she saw it. I have a MASSIVE grey lineage. Many think I'm nuts. (And if they changed shape I would be royally pissed off....

 

Horses for courses. Updating sprites will NOT help.

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Rares, or those with BSAs or multiple colors seem least likely to be blockers.

But again, as was mentioned, adding BSAs to commons won`t be useful, especially with this 'overflood'.

 

Dragons that are seen as not having value for trades are generally the worst blockers

Surely, but there goes another question, in that case. Wouldn't adding more commons [with new releases] + sending eggs that sat in biome for x minutes get it even worse. Im surely this had been discussed many times before, but clogging AP instead of biomes won't do much. Even decreasing eggs time to 4 days, like it is done now doesn't seem to help.

 

After all, if unwanted ones are sent to biome - ratios still remain same. That means system sent 3 commons to AP -> players grabbed their rares -> system fills cave with commons again. And again and again.

 

Now, if:

-Replacing sprites, as you told, won`t help

-Sending commons to AP just to produce more commons wont fit either

 

What is left? I think someone in similar threads talked about simply deleting those ones who sat in AP/biome too long, but answer was that there is massive recoding needed. I, myself, don't see any solutions here. Thats why my answer to this topic will remain as 'no'.

Edited by Nevemore

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Personally I'm one of the people that like sprite updates and thinks more of the older dragons should get at least minor updates (like the female Purple and Whiptails), even some of my favorites like the Greys and Reds. While I wouldn't really mind total overhauls, seeing the way people reacted to the Golds makes me think only minor updates for fixing things like anatomy issues, shading, etc should happen. (I'd personally love if the Silvers got a touch-up, but that's a different topic o3o)

 

But I DON'T believe that sprite updates will change everything. I think Greys and Guardians look awesome but they're constantly blocking the caves. I would grab them but I don't always want to, even though I love them.

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Nevermore:

BSA's don't help in the least, because there are only so many good BSA's you can add.

 

I've been here on DC a long time, since 2009. When I first joined, blacks were MASSIVE blockers. I mean, you were walking on walls of blacks.

Then.... The ratios shifted. The blacks went from super abundant to non-existent. There was a time when people were trading 2nd gen metals for CB Blacks!

Then, there was another shift in the ratios. Suddenly, every single bred Black was alting, I mean, every single one! You can pinpoint to the week when it happened, one day everything was going regular, the next everything was alting. Bred regular blacks were not to be found, no matter how hard you looked. That lasted for a few months (like, 3 months I think?). And CB blacks were still super rare.

Now, things are shifting again, with CB blacks becoming more common, though its happening gradually. CB blacks are pretty easy to find now, actually at common status again.

 

That's just the blacks.

 

Now the Nocturnes! I love them as my small army (ok, 20+ isn't really a small army), but....

 

When Nocturnes were first released, they were very common.

Then, they vanished! For a while, they couldn't be found at all. People were trading well for them, though not as well as blacks.

Until, that was, another shift hit, and the Nocturne went from uncommon to blocker, and for the most part has stayed at blocker status. Sometimes it shifts to the common status.

In fact, the Nocturne problem got so bad that one month, a contest raised over 2,000 Nocturnes! And guess what it did to the ratios? Nada, nothing, zilch, zip. Nocturnes shifted from blocker to common. For all of a week. Then went back to being blockers.

 

The point of this somewhat long winded post? Blockers shift. They always have, they always will, its the nature of the Cave. There needs to be some way to make the current blockers (and just the current blockers!) more "valuable" so they will be picked up. Something that automatically rotates as the blockers do.

 

And that's what this idea is, as only blockers will sit long enough to shift to the AP, where they will lose time, and become incu-hatchable and therefore more valuable. Which means more will be raised in the long term, which means that the ratios will even out for that breed faster. Which will shift them from blockers back to commons.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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wow i really love this idea because the biomes dont really move i tend to not even check them out anymore since i can spend a short time in the cave and get some really awesome eggs verses spending an hour or more only to get the same eggs. point being this would really would help to send people to the biomes more often thumbs_up.png

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I like this concept.

 

It's almost impossible to get so much as uncommon eggs (Gilded Bloodscales, Serragamma Wyverns) if you aren't in the caves at the top of the hour right now because of blockers.

 

There's also a HUGE difference in the value of a CB blocker egg and a hatchie, and I think this might help fix it a bit?

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I don't quite (at all) get what you are saying. That some sprites are more popular than others ? But we all have different views. The sprites I like best are despised by others; on the other hand I can't understand THEIR love for other sprites. I know people who are collecting as many as they CAN of the sprite I like least - because they love it.

 

We are all different and so are our preferences. My favourite dragon is the one you will never pick up, probably. But I don't WANT sprites "updated" They are what they are and we base lineages on them. When they change, it can spoil the look of the lineage. Many of us are still smarting over the change in the golds. I like the changes to the whiptails; I know someone who stopped collecting them the day she saw it. I have a MASSIVE grey lineage. Many think I'm nuts. (And if they changed shape I would be royally pissed off....

 

Horses for courses. Updating sprites will NOT help.

 

 

As usual, fuzzbucket nailed it.

 

We all have different tastes - and not all of us build armies, some having very specific and limited scroll goals of only one or a few examples of each sprite.

 

So, some, no matter how much they may love a particular sprite, will get only one or few, to match the others.

 

The general population hasn't got room or, in most cases, the desire, to build armies of all types of dragons with preference leaning toward those most commonly produced and easily available.

 

Not all dragon types - however marvelously conceived and sprited - will have massive appeal to the bulk of players, and when these are produced in excess of what players want and will willingly take, they become Blockers and the general mental association with the sprite becomes one of annoyance, because they're always in the way, preventing play and producing frustration and boredom.

 

 

In nature, the species that overpopulates its environment either dies back or completely destroys the ecology, since nothing can grow forever without causing disaster, ultimately to itself as well.

 

While the Cave could, presumably, limit ratio-driven 'conception' of Blockers to a sustainable level, DC has no mechanism to do so, other than forcing the player-base to artificially sustain the levels demanded by the Cave of various dragons which are over-produced for their 'environment', although this comes at a cost of artificially reducing the production of other, more desirable, and underpopulated sprites which are too-rarely produced within biomes lacking enough movement to regularly 'uncover' them, due to such overproduction of specific types blocking the process.

 

Even the 'death' of the unwanted eggs of over-populated species cannot solve the problem, because the Cave is programmed to replace them at a certain percentage, regardless of circumstance and sustainability.

 

Respriting cannot solve a basic, built-in mechanical issue which results in chronic dysfunction within the game itself.

 

Even if respriting made some Blockers more popular, which is not necessarily the case, others would continue to exist/be created, because the Cave is not a responsive system intended to adapt to sustainability/player demand, but one programmed to produce unchanging ratios, and one which would continue to produce Blocker eggs to this programed ratio even if virtually all of the Blocker eggs died.

 

Therefore, in order to solve any issues, something has to be fundamentally altered.

 

The most practical suggestions include: (this mention not addressing whatever complexity and potential issues might be involved) the ratio system being adjusted to be more in accordance with the DC 'environment' - what players will willingly take:

 

or the Blockers must be auto-removed from the biomes after a reasonable length of time, so that players are not forced to sacrifice playing time/egg slots in an often futile effort to get the biomes moving and allow non-Blockers to appear.

 

Since in the latter case, the eggs must be raised and the dragons survive to fulfill the Sacred Ratios, the only tenable option seems to be auto-dropping these, (as they roll off the biome piles after a few minutes, when the next egg in line is shoved out into view by breeding wild dragons) into the AP, to likely appear as incuhatchable/ER eggs and therefore more desirable, (although the loss of Jaemeia has made ERing more difficult) since they take up precious egg-spaces for far less time than do 7-day eggs.

 

 

Another issue is that years back, I seem to recall that we were told that already-chronic Blocker issues should resolve as more commons were Released; however, there have not been many Releases until relatively recently, and this effect has failed to materialize, although an increased Common pool should ultimately help considerably - but this again would depend on whether there was a weighting in favour of specific types which were in less demand than others.

 

We have no idea, if TJ doesn't tell us, although the result so far have been rather discouraging...

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There's nothing 'sacred' about the ratios unless you count TJ's inability to let go of a broken toy. The ratios are broken and have been for several years, and until TJ admits it and develops a 'completly NEW system', they will remain broken.

 

The ratios need to be dumped entirely and a pure percentage system put in it's place. A system that will release dragons based on their assigned rarity and not their in game population.

 

We used to 'need' more eggs because the cave didn't produce enough, then TJ changed something to produce more eggs and suddenly we had more eggs than we knew what to do with. So multi-clutches got removed and rares got harder to breed.. then the player base exploded and the system started making even more eggs to cover the new players. Only the ratios don't consider popularity, so the cave produces what it thinks the game needs based on dragon populations. It doesn't consider popularity, it doesn't understand supply and demand, all it cares about is meeting it's pre-programmed population numbers.

 

A system that releases eggs based on rarity will work... how do I know? because it works on hundreds of other collecting games. DC's release system is unique and maybe that had it's appeal back when the game was new and small. But the game isn't small anymore.. it's HUGE.. but that same unique system is going to kill it, because it's wallowing in dragons that no one wants because the system is blind, deaf and dumb.

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I think that's - a little harsh...

 

Goes back to enjoying playing !

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There's nothing 'sacred' about the ratios unless you count TJ's inability to let go of a broken toy. The ratios are broken and have been for several years, and until TJ admits it and develops a 'completly NEW system', they will remain broken.

 

The ratios need to be dumped entirely and a pure percentage system put in it's place. A system that will release dragons based on their assigned rarity and not their in game population.

 

We used to 'need' more eggs because the cave didn't produce enough, then TJ changed something to produce more eggs and suddenly we had more eggs than we knew what to do with. So multi-clutches got removed and rares got harder to breed.. then the player base exploded and the system started making even more eggs to cover the new players. Only the ratios don't consider popularity, so the cave produces what it thinks the game needs based on dragon populations. It doesn't consider popularity, it doesn't understand supply and demand, all it cares about is meeting it's pre-programmed population numbers.

 

A system that releases eggs based on rarity will work... how do I know? because it works on hundreds of other collecting games. DC's release system is unique and maybe that had it's appeal back when the game was new and small. But the game isn't small anymore.. it's HUGE.. but that same unique system is going to kill it, because it's wallowing in dragons that no one wants because the system is blind, deaf and dumb.

 

 

Thanks, that's much more concise than my version, lol.

 

 

Edit: I also have no idea of how difficult it would be to recode the system, though...

 

 

Re-edit: and not only assigned rarity but what the player population will willingly take must be involved, or we'll still be buried in Blockers, people will still continue to lose interest, and the fewer players are on, the less the biomes will move...

 

We do need a very large pool of Commons and slightly Uncommons rigged so that a variety of dragons always shows, and there's no more chronic lack of choice among the same relatively few overpopulated dragons, 'take them or else' situation.

Edited by Syphoneira

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I quit this game a long time ago, and I have just returned.

 

I quit shortly after the biomes were first implemented.

 

The cave moved A LOT faster before that, and even after, the biomes moved really fast too. Blockers last for a few minutes at most usually . . .

 

I come back and stare at all of the biomes for a few minutes, and not a single one moved . . . wtf.

 

The current biome system (along with the fact that there is little reason to grab caveborn eggs when you can grab the same ones off of AP at lower times now) is killing the cave.

 

I pledge my full support for this.

This is me. I used to be able to catch 'rare' eggs. Can't anymore. The cave rots, and when it does move it happens so darned fast that it is easy to miss. The amount of players for DC has grown but the amount of egg drops in the bio homes has not. I love the AP. totally support this idea.

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I'm seriously against sending the blockers to the AP. It's as if TJ is openly admitting that egg is worthless. This is not an instant gratification game; I think that is one of its best qualities. You can't just instantly get an adult that you want. You can't trade adults, and you have to invest a few days of limited scroll space to raising what you want. I've gotten bored of all of the other adoptables games, where you can get adults, trade for adults, or grow adults almost instantly due to a lot of clicks. Part of the game is making choices - what is worth your precious, valuable egg and hatchling spaces, worth a several-day investment?

 

Also, the blockers in the biomes do move at times other than the top of the hour. If you don't know that, you're not actually watching.

 

Blocker is also a poorly defined term. I've seen several times recently a CB green opal blocking the forest (not just going past, sitting there for several minutes) - those are on the rare list and you can't say they aren't wanted or should be booted to the AP.

 

Blockers do change a lot, too. This past weekend, it took me 8 tries to breed a 2nd gen mint from uncommon. Mints are usually extreme blockers. My advice: collect the blockers now, and you'll have them safe on your scroll when they stop blocking.

 

That said, I am 100% in agreement with Cinnamin Draconna about the percentile system. I think that part of the problem is all of the inactive scrolls - all those inactive players have golds and silvers and dinos, etc., back from when there were fewer overall breeds and those were less super-rare, counting towards those ratios, and none of the newer commons. You can't expect the current player base to shoulder the extra common-collecting to make up for the inactive scrolls.

 

Edit: by inactive, I do mean "just barely active," grabbing an egg or two a couple of times a year (such as during holidays), not those who disappeared years ago.

Edited by Lavinia

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Um. Unless they went inactive within the last year nothing on an inactive scroll counts toward the ratios. So all those old scrolls with silvers and golds and stuff no longer affect anything.

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I took a fairly long hiatus from DC when Flight Rising was opened. So I missed several of the new releases.

 

When I did come back, I've been in hog heaven, so to speak. Tons of eggs I haven't seen before all over. Tons in the AP that are incuhatchable. It's been rather awesome.

 

Unfortunately, to get to that point I had to quit. When also meant I let my subscription lapse. So while the end effect was great for me, I'm not sure it was for DC.

 

I also don't think this idea would work in the sense that the AP is already stuffed with CB eggs. Making it easier for people to cherry pick the cave isn't going to help anyone except the cherry pickers. I think the idea on ratio updates is far more practical.

 

The only way I could see this idea helping is it would put normal users on a more even standing with multi scrollers who aren't affected by the 5 hour limit anyway. And given what I see on Holidays, I suspect that problem is far worse than we realize. If you watch the biomes on Halloween etc. You can see 4 eggs zip off. Then a small pause (person logging in and out). Then 4 more. On almost every biome. IE, multi-scrollers mining for word codes once the initial rush is over.

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I like being able to incuhatch some CBs. I am still limited by my hatchling slots. So unless you just incuhatch nonstop and give /trade away your babies .... no one can keep it up forever.

 

Now, this has devalued values of some CB Hatchlings and/or allowed it to be much easier /faster to move up scroll levels. This may or may not be a good thing based on your view. But I'm not sure having CBs in the AP destroys the game. Because different people want different breeds or collections or numbers of CB breeds.

 

So this helps ratios. Everyone loves CB hatchlings. I think all pros vs all cons, ultimately it ends up more better than bad. Especially with growth of players and different time zones.... so AP surprizes are gems to many who don't have the same access as others.

 

The AP may not be an official hunting ground from the biomes as an intention when it was created, but to say its not is just not true anymore.

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Since the adjustment was made a few days ago for the five minute rotations in the Biomes, I'm amazed at what I've been able to pick up. biggrin.gif It doesn't impact the AP, which I also use all the time, eggs are moving much easier, and I'm really loving it. <3

 

Edited to clarify.

Edited by dragongrrl

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Bumping this given where the "retire breeds" discussion is heading.

 

C4.

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I'd be okay with eggs that aren't being picked up going to the AP. I think the 5 hour wait is fine though for now. I wouldn't mind it dropping to an hour, but I think it's fine at 5.

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Something like this would add more eggs to the AP, which is already usually a wall at the moment. I'd be fine with having blockers that have sat there for 5+ minutes be sent to the AP, but lowering the waiting time to 1 hour would only serve to send even more eggs to the AP. I think we've got enough in there already.

 

I'd be fine with sending long-waiting eggs to the AP, but I do not want to see the 5-hour wait lifted or shortened.

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But the other week, I decided to hunt the biomes anyway. I'd already gotten most of my fill of the new breeds. And what I found? I spent 5 minutes hunting all the biomes, rotating between all 6. And only one biome, out of all 6, moved. I was paying attention to the codes, moving from tab to tab (had 6 open) and refreshing. In those 5 minutes, Coast moved ONCE.

 

How. Boring.

 

Boring indeed.

 

Thank you for acknowledging what's really up around here. It's so refreshing that somebody is willing to tell it like it is and get real. Your experience is exactly what I experience. Every. Single. Day. dry.gif

 

This sounds like a plan to me. I love it. Better the AP be blocked than the Cave.

 

 

It's as if TJ is openly admitting that egg is worthless.

 

You mean like the masses tossing countless misclicked blockers in there pretty much admitting they're worthless...at least to them? And really, it's not admitting they're worthless, it's admitting they just aren't wanted by the masses anymore.

 

Also, the blockers in the biomes do move at times other than the top of the hour. If you don't know that, you're not actually watching.

 

Then they're moving at such a low rate of speed it's invisible to the naked eye. Kind of like trying to watch the earth turn standing in your back yard. That's how it feels to me anyway.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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But the other week, I decided to hunt the biomes anyway. I'd already gotten most of my fill of the new breeds. And what I found? I spent 5 minutes hunting all the biomes, rotating between all 6. And only one biome, out of all 6, moved. I was paying attention to the codes, moving from tab to tab (had 6 open) and refreshing. In those 5 minutes, Coast moved ONCE.

 

How. Boring.

Boring indeed.

 

Thank you for acknowledging what's really up around here. It's so refreshing that somebody is willing to tell it like it is and get real. Your experience is exactly what I experience. Every. Single. Day. <_<

 

This sounds like a plan to me. I love it. Better the AP be blocked than the Cave.

Exactly. This is why I absolutely hate hunting in the cave, even if I just check on :00 and :05 marks, which is when new eggs are added and you have a better chance of hopefully catching a rare.

 

I want to see the eggs shuffle. Even if they aren't sent to the AP, I would like to see the eggs shuffle more if they sit for too long.

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I'm definitely for this. I used to see the biomes move at the five minute drops, but I don't see it anymore. This would certainly help with that.

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