Send Biome Blockers to the AP

[Amaterasu-sama]

hatchies growing up in the AP running to the Wilderness before viewers even see them as hatchlings anymore.

What does this mean exactly? Why do they run to wilderness if their timer isn't over? I didn't know about this. And never paid attention either because I still see and catch hatchies from AP.

[Pokemonfan13]

That's only if they have enough views to grow up when they're abandoned. Unless he changed it again, TJ made it so things in the AP can't gain views, which helps that situation greatly.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Throwing more blockers into the AP would maybe do things for biome hunters, but I think taking away the blocking did plenty for them. This change would be to the disadvantage of AP hunters and this site should cater to all kinds of players.

Considering AP hunters have 1) a constantly changing pool of eggs, 2) a bit of chance involved rather than pure speed in catching (rares show up anywhere in 20+ eggs rather than to the right hand side of three eggs), 3) everything instantly incuhatchable and 4) the chance of finding rare bred eggs that'll never appear in the cave (ex: low-gen Shimmers, babies from Hollies), I'd say they have a lot more advantages over the cave hunters still. Cave hunting is pretty lame when nothing moves. I don't think punting caveblockers into the AP will hurt anyone much, not considering they'll likely end up there anyway and will also already be ER, but it will do loads to help out the long suffering cave hunter group.

Edited August 30, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[LibbyLishly]

I very much support this idea. Getting the caves to move again would actually get me back in there hunting; I don't see how this would adversely affect AP hunters like myself, since we already have mostly commons and blockers (many of which are CB) all over the AP page.

 

I agree with what others have pointed out, too - hatchies shouldn't be pushed behind the eggs in the AP. Incidentally, if this idea is enacted, upping the number of possible hatchie slots (not egg slots, JUST hatchies) on our scrolls would REALLY help.

 

I have only one concern. If too many blockers got kicked to the AP, would it push us all the way back to eggs with only a day or so left? We're already in the 2-day range during new releases. In other words, would we see more eggs dying simply because no one could pick them up in time?

Edited August 30, 2013 by LibbyLishly

[Fiona]

The problem with all the ideas about kicking an egg after x minutes or self adjusting ratios is, from something TJ said awhile back (no, I cannot find it) and from what little I know of programming, I don't think the code knows how long egg X has been sitting there.

 

This is the way I believe it works:

Code generates eggs. (Let's say 300)

Code creates and fills an array, of 6 by Y where Y equals the number of eggs allotted for each of biomes 1 through 6. (I'm guessing it splits it into 6 queues because otherwise all the rares would end up getting shuffled through fast moving biomes and picked up within those first couple minutes, leaving none for the slower biomes, and unbalancing things)

 

Then it just goes through and as each egg gets taken the next moves to the top of the queue. It doesn't have any kind of timer to keep track of when each egg is visible. It only knows code xxxxx is at the top of the queue.

 

So, rather than "if an egg sits Z minutes without being taken" maybe we need to discuss having the code kick the top egg from each queue every 5 minutes, regardless of what it is. That would make the biomes move more because players would be guaranteed to see at least on different egg each 5 minutes. The kicked eggs would move to the AP, where they'd get picked up eventually.

 

That scenario would automatically send 72 eggs to the AP every hour. However, it probably would not be a net gain of even half that because less players would be picking up stuff to try to move the cave and dumping it 5 hours later.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Fiona BlueFire

[Pokemonfan13]

Fi, if it was just the top egg being kicked it would have to be more often than every 5 minutes. The version with eggs that have sat for 5 minutes being kicked involves 3 egg spaces, and so on average an egg is going to be kicked much more often. So with your idea I'd say every 2 minutes.

 

And since the "top of the list" would only be the leftmost egg it is unlikely to kick anything but a blocker unless that biome is absolutely empty of hunters.

[DarkShinyLugia]

This idea isn't so bad. I agree that the blockers must go away. 2 minutes nearly guarantees it. The issue it that the AP will become fuller and fuller until you get this message:

 

"You start off towards (insert biome here) but there's a giant pile of eggs so no travelling is needed."

 

Then not enough people collect the CB eggs because they have to pick up AP, 2 minutes are up and the new egg pops into the AP. Said egg could be an egg those people were actually looking for.

 

It's an okay idea otherwise though.

 

*insert trollface here*

[Guillotine]

Yeah, with just the top egg being kicked (as opposed to all three on the screen), every 5 minutes isn't fast enough (I'm too tired to do the math for every two minutes right now, but that seems like a reasonable time period). Rares, high-value uncommons, and new releases would get picked up before that, so it's very likely that it would be a blocker anyway.

 

Also, the AP doesn't block the biomes anymore and hasn't since shortly after i joined back in February.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Guillotine

[Fiona]

My first thought when I came up with this version was every three minutes from each biome. That would be (60 minutes divided by 3 = 20 eggs times 6 biomes = 120 eggs headed to the ap every hour from the cave.) 120 eggs for every three minutes, or 180 to the ap if every 2 minutes.

 

My only concern with the higher numbers is will players have enough hatchling slots to keep the AP reasonably picked through? I have a couple BSAs in mind that would help with that, but I haven't run them by TJ.

 

However, if the biomes were guaranteed to move regularly and those eggs that go to the ap are being picked up and kept in general the cave would have a greater variety.

 

For the most part only blockers would go to the AP, but it wouldn't matter if things were moving fast during releases or whatever and more desirable eggs went there, because they would just get picked up there by happy AP sifters.

 

 

The main point of this suggestion is that it doesn't require the code to try to track how long anything sits there. It just needs a timer ticking off however many minutes each interval. There's probably already some sort of time kept or how would it know to regenerate eggs for the 5 minute intervals.

[Pokemonfan13]

I do think that if a system like this is implemented the hatchling slots would have to be increased.

[Fiona]

I had two thoughts on that, PF. One was the BSA suggestion of "Nurture" which was once proposed for BBW. That would take a day off grow up time for hatchlings, but only if the egg had not been incubated. This would "reward" players who take the low time AP eggs by not making them wait 3 days for those hatchlings to grow up.

 

The other thought was an "adopt" BSA for coppers, which would effectively add a hatchling slot for each adult copper dragon. It would need at least a two week long cool down. And the number of extra hatchlings a person could have would be limited by their ability to get coppers. It fits coppers perfectly, but as coppers are already very popular, I was hesitant to suggest it. I think it would need to not stack with Nurture either.

 

This would enable players to raise more dragons, but because of how it's being proposed, the bulk of those it would apply to would be blockers. This would have the effect of helping balance ratios, which would result in a greater variety in the cave. No one would be "required" to raise blockers, as many players feel they must now, but it would be an opportunity to raise them without sacrificing precious egg or hatchlings slots that could be used for more highly desired dragons.

[TheAkatsuki]

I personally support the OP's idea.

Biome-hunting is simply torturous. Once I had found out about the AP, I'd given up on biome-hunting nearly for good, as I certainly don't have enough patience to participate in it. I'll participate in new releases, but that's pretty much the only exception. Often times I'd thought to myself;

"Hey, I haven't went egg-hunting in the biomes for a while, why not give it a try?"

After actually giving it a go, I'd quickly remember why I haven't done it for so long, and I'd usually give up after about three minutes. It's the cave-blockers, and there's just too many of them. Each time I decide to check on the biomes, it's nearly always the same batch of eggs, even after a few hours.

This would be a wonderful way to speed up the Cave-rotation, thus giving a little more motivation to people to actually egg-hunt there, hence- My support. I do hope the idea doesn't get rejected, as I find it to be quite brilliant.

Edited August 31, 2013 by TheAkatsuki

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree that a BSA that takes a day off unincubated hatchlings would definitely be a help for people who lock themselves with hatchlings hatched from the AP, and something like that would be a minimum addition if blocker booting was added.

[sh20000sh]

I support this idea. There should be some way to deal with blockers. But 5 minutes isn't too short?

Edited August 31, 2013 by sh20000sh

[Marrionetta]

This sounds suspiciously like a ploy to have cake and eat it too.

[Fiona]

How so, Marri?

[Marrionetta]

What of the elements of the game is the interweaving of the consequences of actions of other players with your own will. If everyone is choosing to ignore 'cave blockers' then no one will benefit from a fresh set of eggs. This behavior becomes amplified when people all begin to regard certain breeds as undesirable and then they just sit there. Blocking.

 

If everyone took it upon themselves to pick up a blocker once in a while, even if they tossed it five hours later to the AP, the cave would move at a respectable clip. But nobody is willing to do this, so it's unrealistic. Cake, in my metaphor, is having the space afforded on your scroll to hunting because you don't pick up the blockers, expecting it to be someone else's job, and eating it too is the actual hunting once the blockers move.

 

I don't know why I think this way, but it seems like this whole idea is sort of selfish, in the same way the 'make more rares appear' and 'increase breeding success' threads have been in the past.

[mpolo]

I tend to just fill up on eggs from the biome I am hunting and then dump them after a few hours. I figure I'm helping the thing keep moving, and at the same time, I occasionally luck out and get what I was hunting for. I certainly don't have the patience to sit around waiting for minutes at a time for someone else to take an egg. It seems to work. I actually caught a silver this way (my only CB). So, I guess I don't see it as that necessary. People just have to gradually learn to make the sacrifice of filling a slot in the hopes of being able to get something better on the next click. And if it doesn't work, there's always next time.

[Prince_Xanthius]

The problem is that some of us do pick up those blockers with the intention to kick them in 5 hours and then miss the desirable egg uncovered. I do not have a fast connection or particularly fast reactions, and several times I have picked up a blocker, refreshed, seen and clicked something I actually want only to get the 'someone else has already taken this egg message', and another blocker in place. When you have just picked up 5 blockers to get to that 1 desirable egg, this feels extremely unfair.

 

This is me having my cake stolen and then watching someone else eat it (Ok, I am not going to try and extend that metaphor any more!).

 

Yes, I agree the idea of booting to the AP is basically selfish, but at least it is fair. It does not require me to sacrifice my egg spots for someone else's gain, on the off-chance that I get the payout instead of them.

 

The other option being bandied around (which I think maybe better) is to reduce the 5 hour time period to about 1 hour. This would reduce reluctance to pick up blockers, especially since I (and many others) mostly hunt in the evenings when 5 hours probably equals no more hunting that evening. Also it gets around the coding issue mentioned earlier about the code not knowing how long the egg has been there.

 

The current system doesn't work, most people agree on that, and I think this is one of the simplest solutions, and would have a small impact on game play besides the obvious faster moving biomes.

[Marrionetta]

The other option being bandied around (which I think maybe better) is to reduce the 5 hour time period to about 1 hour. This would reduce reluctance to pick up blockers, especially since I (and many others) mostly hunt in the evenings when 5 hours probably equals no more hunting that evening. Also it gets around the coding issue mentioned earlier about the code not knowing how long the egg has been there.

I kind of like this.

[Guillotine]

I tend to just fill up on eggs from the biome I am hunting and then dump them after a few hours. I figure I'm helping the thing keep moving, and at the same time, I occasionally luck out and get what I was hunting for. I certainly don't have the patience to sit around waiting for minutes at a time for someone else to take an egg. It seems to work. I actually caught a silver this way (my only CB). So, I guess I don't see it as that necessary. People just have to gradually learn to make the sacrifice of filling a slot in the hopes of being able to get something better on the next click. And if it doesn't work, there's always next time.

That "sacrifice" doesn't work when all that you get for your troubles is a scroll locked with blockers that you're just going to dump after the excessively long cooldown ends. I've never seen anything but more blockers after picking up a blocker to get the biomes moving, and it takes me out of the game until I can get rid of them. That's not a reasonable solution to this issue because it actively interferes with fun.

 

I'd be in favor of a much shorter cooldown no matter what else is put into place, honestly. Five hours is ridiculous and basically keeps me from actually playing the game for extended periods of time. I think at least cutting it down to one hour would be better, although making it 30 minutes might have the same intended effect as an hour.

[Fiona]

The thing is that the blocker problem was not part of the game plan. No one was supposed to have to move anything out of the way so they could grab the egg they actually wanted. Right now people grab a blocker, tying up an egg slot, and hoping that it will uncover something they want to keep. Then 5 hours later they dump that blocker to the AP. And more than half the time they don't uncover something they want that way, and if they do they don't get the egg. Someone else does. That is in no way a matter of an interplay between players' actions that encourages gameplay.

 

What is being suggested is for a game mechanic that automatically takes care of that aspect, rather than requiring the players to do it. I'm suggesting "removing the middle man" so to speak, that is having players take something they don't want just to try to move things along, and moving things with a game controlled mechanic that is fair to everyone.

 

 

The main issue I see with reducing the 5 hour wait to one hour, or removing it altogether, is that 5 hour wait was put in for a reason back when the cave moved as intended. It had a purpose then. Has that purpose been rendered void? Also, whether removed or shortened, the same imbalance happens if the players are the ones removing blockers to try to move the cave. Someone is sacrificing slots with no assurance of benefiting from their sacrifice, while others may be reaping the benefits. Having the cave move things means no one is sacrificing and no one is benefiting without sacrifice.

 

Sure, it's self-interested for all of us. The whole game is based on self interest. We see an egg we want and try to be the first person to grab it. But the point of the suggestion that eggs are automatically kicked is that it is even-handed. Those eggs are going to end up in the AP anyway, so why should some of the players be the ones having to move them there?

 

 

ETA: and before anyone asks, I can't count the number of times I've picked up blockers, often as many as 6 in a session, and not been rewarded with anything I wanted to keep. Sometimes I go to the caves with the sole intention of picking up blockers to dump. So I've played middle man many times, and sacrificial lamb. It gets old fast when all it results in is more blockers to send to the AP. What I'm suggesting is just that the game play middle man.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Fiona BlueFire

[mpolo]

I guess I do agree that it's annoying… But I also figure dumping them in 5 hours and trying again keeps me from wasting more time here than I already do. If I could immediately dump them and go looking again, I might stay on until I got something good…

[PolarVortex]

I agree 100% with everything Fiona Bluefire just said.

 

While I too find the five hour wait really annoying, especially when grabbing blockers hoping to uncover something, I also think it still has an important place in the game. Take new releases, for example. There are already a LOT of people who are struggling to get new eggs on release day and removing the five hour wait (or shortening it) will just allow the fast-clickers to get that many more of them, because they will be able to gift/trade them out right away. Sure, many of those might be gifted, but also many of us prefer to catch them ourselves. There are some situations where it benefits the general population to have others locked up for five hours.

 

That's why I am all in favor of having the game auto-boot blockers to the AP instead of relying on players to do it. I think the suggestion of just kicking the top one every five minutes would work well. The one on the far left is almost guaranteed to be a blocker and removing it will still get things moving. Sure, maybe not lightening fast, but I don't really want to see the biomes empty out in 2 minutes, either. At the very least you would know if you wait five minutes you will get a chance to see another egg.

[Frosslass]

I'm totally for this idea. I rarely go into the biomes anymore, it would be nice to see things move for once.