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Thuban

"Pound" biome

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This idea came up in another thread, but it cant really be discussed, because it keeps getting buried.

 

I love the idea of a "pound" biome that opens once a month and is filled with the commons that are underpopulated. (blocker so to speak). If 2500 blockers drop in that biome once a month, then the rest of the cave would readjust to the new ratios, and drop more rares for awhile in the regular biomes. It would not make rares more "common" exactly, but it would make them easier to get because they would still drop at the same rate of 1 rare per x commons dropped.

 

Now.. people are going to shoot this down because who in their right mind would pick up blockers from the pound.. when they can easily be grabbed from the cave? Easy.. we would see exactly what needs picked up to rebalance the ratios to their normal levels. Plus.. things that are grabbed in the pound biome would have a "single cave" rating.. making it easier for those who want to do "specific" checkers with say the coppers to be able to do so. I dont know how they are breeding well enough to know if it would change things, but i know some people have been cranky about not being able to do checkers with them easily. A single cave biome setting would allow those checkers to happen IF the artists are willing to make allowences for pound babies to breed the copper parents color, instead of breeding by biome.

 

Suggestions so far:

Now, one of the suggestions that came up in the few responses it got was that this biome should have LOW TIME eggs. I agree. Hardly anyone is willing to load up on cave blockers, unless they can get them low time from the AP.

 

 

I like Thu's original suggestion, where the cave creates a bunch of eggs of the underpopulated dragons and sticks them in a biome. I support the suggestion of having eggs from that biome be ER or close to it, since it gets them raised faster and gives people a reason to take them.

 

I don't see how it taking eggs from the AP should work. Those eggs already exist and will be picked up and raised eventually, so that doesn't help the underpopulated dragons.

 

I don't think the eggs should count for the ratios until they're picked up, just sit there rotating. [and there's no reason why they shouldn't rotate because there's no rares to glean out] This rotating would also make it easier for people to find what they want, as long as what they want is in the pound. The reason I don't think they should count until they're picked up is otherwise too many people will ignore the pound in favor of the theoretically better moving cave due to all those eggs existing in the pound. The pound will still serve its purpose [as long as the eggs inside are made desirable, like being ER] by helping even out wonky ratios, just slightly slower.

 

Another suggestion that came up is that this biome should look like the AP, instead of being mystery eggs with the descriptions. I could support this.... (edit) or have the eggs change every refresh instead of being stuck on the same three eggs if we go classic biome route.

 

 

 

 

 

So guys, what do you think. Would having a low time biome full of whatever that months flavor of underpopulated caveblockers be worth it to you? It is fully possible that some months this biome might be full of BSA, despite the fact that BSA's rarely lock the cave up. Its all purely based on "what is underpopulated THIS month (each month).

 

 

 

UPDATES:

An old tattered parchment has been dug up from the deepest cave, in the most remote area of the continent. The band of travelers has been reading it over and decided to see if the ideas of the time could be updated to match current times.

 

 

Here we are again, trying to work out how to get lower time caveborn eggs into the hands of those who are looking for them. Blockers are still a thing, despite many changes over the years. We have tried various breeding projects, clearing the areas around the caves of unwanted eggs (AP and cave hunting projects), we have had various travelers try to overbreed them in order to slow them down, and still the blockers thrive. Its time to put our heads together and figure out how to solve this problem.

 

The initial suggestion of an occasional biome that opens up with lower time blockers is still an interesting idea. I have no clue how often the cave readjusts to decide how many of what types to drop, however, I know its different now based on how it was. I'm not entirely sure how we can plan around that.

 

Idea: Perhaps, we could have this new biome scan the abandoned pile to look for anything with a biome listed x amount of times a week/month. It does not appear that bred things have specific biomes listed, so this could potentially work.

 

Additional thoughts: How would these eggs move from one place to another? Well, we already know that this continent is crawling with traveling merchants, dragon hunters, and people in general. Maybe they are picking them up and dropping them off at various locations all over the map for adoption purposes.

Edited by Thuban

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I also like the idea of the pound being more like the AP in layout. The other option would be to have it have the normal biome layout, just have the eggs randomize on refresh so you wouldn't be stuck on specific eggs.

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I think it needs to be a continuous thing, rather than once a month, else I fear it wouldn't do much good. Also, I am assuming that the number is arbitrary, I doubt that 2500 eggs would really do that much good given the amount of users, especially if they were distributed across many different breeds.

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I think it needs to be a continuous thing, rather than once a month, else I fear it wouldn't do much good. Also, I am assuming that the number is arbitrary, I doubt that 2500 eggs would really do that much good given the amount of users, especially if they were distributed across many different breeds.

I dont necessarily want it to be open ALL the time, but perhaps it could open more often. The number i chose was one pulled out of the air of course... only TJ knows the numbers needed.. and if he likes the idea, then im sure we could discuss other options.

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Why not just toss the CB Blockers to the AP? I mean, who cares if a particular egg is underpopulated? The problem is blockers, moving them out of the way to keep the Biomes fluid. And having them count against the ratios.

 

Say, an egg sits for 5 minutes in the Biomes, toss it to the AP. It'll naturally loose time then, essentially doing what this suggestion is doing, but with already existing cave mechanics. And if an egg sits in the biomes, it's unwanted.

 

Because from what I can see, all you are doing here is created a 2nd AP, that is just for CB blockers. And while some people might enjoy said biome, I'd probably prefer to haunt the current AP. *pets pretty lineaged eggs stolen from the AP* Why go for CBs, when with a bit of hunting you can find some spectacular lineages, in the same dragons?

 

So, if you must, create a 2nd AP for the CBs tossed from the biomes, and let it act just like the regular AP. Otherwise, the other suggestion I'd make is reducing the wait for users to abandon CB eggs. Has the same effect, just doesn't need any re-coding.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

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I dont necessarily want it to be open ALL the time, but perhaps it could open more often. The number i chose was one pulled out of the air of course... only TJ knows the numbers needed.. and if he likes the idea, then im sure we could discuss other options.

The thing I fear is that if it ISN'T open often, then it will just lead to feast then famine(as the pound empties, people turn back to overbreeding, overgrabbing rares just like always), that if you miss the feast, then you are SOL until the next feast comes along. I would rather have something available to keep the ratio stable, as I greatly dislike the fluctuations the ratios have.

Edited by Nectaris

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Blockers change from month to month.. What worries me about leaving it open all the time is that those blockers might drop too many blockers and then go rare (like when blacks and seasonals disappeared). I was wanting this to be based on what TJ deems underpopulated (does anyone remember the reports he would randomly post of what needed picked up?) on a per month basis.

 

Im also trying to keep in mind that we are getting monthly releases (rares already drop more after a new release, I dont particularly care about the rares, its uncommons and lesser commons like misfits and dinos and copper/blusangs im looking to see more of in cave.) so ratios get messed with anyhow. My goal here is to get the blockers that have been blockers forever (mints, guardians, balloons, sun/moonstones) to stop being the main blockers so that a new set of blockers can finally emerge. I see it making cave hunting more appealing to those who are tired of always seeing the same blockers in the way. I /want/ to see more uncommons and unbreedables spawning, instead of the same old day to day blockers.

 

I dont see this suggestion really hurting anyone playstyle. We like low time eggs and insta hatchys. We like having instant trade fodder, or scroll fluffing ability. All this suggestion is meant to do is create a more steady cycle of current cave blockers, based on whats needed to even the cave out, rather than what we perceive as blockers.

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I don't know as I see any danger of it dropping so many of anything that they go rare. The worst offenders in the blocker category have been blockers for a very long time because they just aren't very popular. That isn't really going to be changed by this suggestion. Therefore, I don't really see a reason not to have it open all the time.

 

What would really fix the current blockers would be giving the worst offenders really useful BSA's. Of course, something else would just become the blockers. *sits down to think about water walkers, stones, mints, etc.*

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I'd like a pound, although I think I'd prefer an AP type if only because it sounds like it should be one. If we shove all the CB blockers in the AP it'll make it harder for lineage hunters, and probably provide less of a variety for everyone.

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Actually, I'd rather want ratios fixed than a biome that tries to do the same thing whilst forcing players to fix it.

 

Either it's a player problem, then we need no extra biome for this, as you could pick up the eggs in the biomes anyway.

 

Or it's a ratio problem, then we need no player-based solution. Even if they drop in the pound, who would pick them up? Exactly the same people that do so in the normal biomes, anyway.

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Actually, I'd rather want ratios fixed than a biome that tries to do the same thing whilst forcing players to fix it.

 

Either it's a player problem, then we need no extra biome for this, as you could pick up the eggs in the biomes anyway.

 

Or it's a ratio problem, then we need no player-based solution. Even if they drop in the pound, who would pick them up? Exactly the same people that do so in the normal biomes, anyway.

If we can convince TJ to have them be ER, then it does make a difference. For one, people would be more willing to take them if they can have them hatched and out of the way in 15 minutes. For another, it means that they're raised quicker, making more of a difference to the ratios.

 

 

TJ is unlikely to "fix" the ratios, since he hasn't yet, even with the number of topics calling them broken over the years. So the next best thing is to help us help the ratios stay balanced.

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I support this. Especially the bit about the eggs being ER. It could help a lot with ND experiments.

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I have to agree with cyradis4.

 

I'm not *against* this suggestion, I just don't see it helping much. I don't see any reason for it.

 

Are people *really* going to scramble to a special biome to pick up lots of *common* low-timed CB eggs? Are *enough* users going to do that that it will actually make any difference at all?

 

If you are talking about underpopulated breeds in general, we have the AP. That's where CB-blockers go right now, and that's where they get picked up (and yes, they do get picked up eventually). If this suggestion is more about getting underpopulated breeds to stop being blockers *faster*, then I'd suggest any CB that gets kicked to the AP loses extra time, to become more "valuable".

 

I don't really see the need for a whole new biome to do something that is basically already done, just to a lesser extent.

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If you are talking about underpopulated breeds in general, we have the AP. That's where CB-blockers go right now, and that's where they get picked up (and yes, they do get picked up eventually). If this suggestion is more about getting underpopulated breeds to stop being blockers *faster*, then I'd suggest any CB that gets kicked to the AP loses extra time, to become more "valuable".

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that, for once they actually show up they have enough time taken off to be desirable. If you mean that it will affect the egg when you pick it up from the cave, that is another matter.

 

As for who would participate, I know I would. I generally want CBs, and I get tired of wading through certain eggs to find a CB one. I in particular won't touch eggs in the AP that have a hybrid of them because more often than not, they are hybrid fails. True, there are some dragons I will not touch even if they are low time, but I am certainly willing to pick up many that I would not touch in the cave itself.

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This looks good, but I just feel as if.... well, is anyone really going to go there? I know I will to fish up ER eggs to stuff my scroll with, but there won't be anything worthwhile there. Also, the name 'pound'.... it's just too, ah, modern for Dragon Cave, I think? If I think of an alternative I'll post it here (if you guys want an alternative, that is).

 

I'll show myself out.

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That's pretty much my point, will enough users actually go there to make the whole thing worthwhile, and to make a difference?

 

I see posts around this forum *all* the time about people picking up CBs from the AP. Since commons are, yunno, common, Finding CB commons on the AP really isn't that hard.

 

I *think* I might be reading the suggestion wrong, and it actually has something to do with a common-biome that would spill out *more* commons then would normally drop into all the other biomes, in order to help balance the population? If that's the case, it means we'd have plenty more CB commons (that a large portion of users still won't be interested in picking up) and, because of ratios, we will be less able to breed commons, which means less ability to continue common lineages (and I see plenty of common lineages being worked on).

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I woul dhoard caveblockers IF

 

- I get a hoarding page and the eggs/hatchies from there wont count towards my egg/hatchie limit (the eggs/hatchies cant be moved back from the hoarding 'scroll' page

 

- AND if i would get like a cb metal for every 50/100 or so (wont happen as TJ is against egg creation)

 

 

There should be a reward doing it. Otherwise people like me will not like it.

I have slow internet and other than trading 2. gen thuweds (which are hard to get) - or 2 gen shimmer/ tinsel (which i dont have) - or NDs (even those wont get you cb metals now a days) === i wont get cb metals from cave...

 

Do blocking myself with stuff = i would like a something for it. (similar to the holly or other 'catch blocker for nice stuff' threads)

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I would hoard caveblockers IF

 

- I get a hoarding page and the eggs/hatchies from there wont count towards my egg/hatchie limit (the eggs/hatchies cant be moved back from the hoarding 'scroll' page

 

- AND if i would get like a cb metal for every 50/100 or so (wont happen as TJ is against egg creation)

 

 

There should be a reward doing it. Otherwise people like me will not like it.

I have slow internet and other than trading 2. gen thuweds (which are hard to get) - or 2 gen shimmer/ tinsel (which i dont have) - or NDs (even those wont get you cb metals now a days) === i wont get cb metals from cave...

 

Do blocking myself with stuff = i would like a something for it. (similar to the holly or other 'catch blocker for nice stuff' threads)

I wouldn't use this - but NO - there should not be a reward (and half the year I have DREADFUL internet - not only that but it is capped....)

 

There already ARE the "reward" threads - they work fine.

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I wouldn't use this - but NO - there should not be a reward (and half the year I have DREADFUL internet - not only that but it is capped....)

 

There already ARE the "reward" threads - they work fine.

Fuzz, if "they work fine", we wouldn't have these kinds of suggestions.

 

I've participated in CavePlumbers and CommonCollecting and you know, it gets really boring, really fast. You aren't working for anything good (this is not a snipe at the donators, I'm one too, and we give as best we can given how fickle ratios are and what we have on hand), your scroll is permanently locked with commons. So you have a great non-choice of public/civic duties or actually playing the game the way you'd like to play it.

 

And the best part, is if you're still into collecting popular rare/breeds, as soon as you do the favor of removing the commons, the schmuck behind you, who isn't picking up blockers because you're doing it for them, is going to grab that egg you both really want because you're going to get the overburdened message on that umpteenth blocker no one, not even you, really wanted anyway. And they certainly aren't going to trot it or it's immediate offspring over to the CP or CCC threads to reward someone for their hard work to make it possible to make that grab.

 

 

Now, that tangent on Sisyphean futility of those threads aside, here's something constructive.

 

 

It would be nice if we had some sort of idea what the "ideal" scroll balance looks like site wise, even if no one could actually do it. (E.g. "Each scroll should contain 3,456 dragons, of which 75% should be commons", or something like that, nothing specific, but would say that for every member who makes uncommon armies and a bit of everything else, someone's gotta be like that guy on Yarold's I keep seeing who has a 1k mints and nothing else).

 

Maybe that could tie into some sort of achievement page, you know, just to appeal to the completion-type side of things. It'd be off to the side, probably located on the trophy page, so you don't have to even look at it or pay attention if you don't want to. Collect 100 Mints gets you the "Minty Fresh achievement", 100 Whiptails = "Speed Demon" achievement, 100 Golds = "Go Open a Bank Already" achievement, 100 Thunders = "Static Attack" achievement, ect. At 20 breed collection achievements you get the "Beginning Hoarder" badge, at 60 it changes to the "Might Have a Problem" badge, and so on... You know, just a doodad, with cute flavor text, no prizes or anything, but something to do and something to show you're helping the site maintain a balance.

 

It would also be pleasant if commons were counted for 2-3 years instead of once, because if everything keeps getting "reset" the logical thing to do would be to wait for the site to purge last year's dragons, then throw away all of the commons you caught the year before, then catch them all again to make the ratios behave for the rest of the year. This may be what the ratios want us to do but NO ONE IS GOING TO DO THAT.

 

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This idae sounds great! I help, even if there was no reward if the eggs were even lower then the AP! I think cheese456 is right about the name. I don't know what a new name should be.

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It would also be pleasant if commons were counted for 2-3 years instead of once, because if everything keeps getting "reset" the logical thing to do would be to wait for the site to purge last year's dragons, then throw away all of the commons you caught the year before, then catch them all again to make the ratios behave for the rest of the year. This may be what the ratios want us to do but NO ONE IS GOING TO DO THAT.

 

I remember the reason that they only count for one year was the january release with the canopies, nocturnes and electrics(I forget what the release was called), where they showed up continuously for a good while. They were showing up so much because there were so many old dragons out there that the need for a high population of the new ones was overwhelming.

 

I still prefer ratios to be adjusted to desirability(with the exception of rares), if a dragon clearly isn't wanted, no one should be forced to raise what they don't want to raise to fulfill some unreachable ratio(and yes, it has been shown continuously that it is unreachable, else we wouldn't be having this discussion time and time again). I think TJ did do some manual adjustment, for blacks and stripes suddenly exploded in the cave where they were exceedingly rare before, so I don't doubt that TJ can tweak things if he wanted to.

Edited by Nectaris

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Fuzz, if "they work fine", we wouldn't have these kinds of suggestions.

Oh but we would. You've said it. For those threads you have to REALLY work at it. MANY of these suggestions come from people who just feel they should be able to get these things faster without having to get - yup - stuff they don't want. I'm lucky there - I really enjoy common lineages xd.png

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Oh but we would. You've said it. For those threads you have to REALLY work at it. MANY of these suggestions come from people who just feel they should be able to get these things faster without having to get - yup - stuff they don't want. I'm lucky there - I really enjoy common lineages xd.png

Fair enough, but it'd be less irritating if you could do some site work and balance the ratios without completely rendering your scroll unavailable to what you want to do. Right now, we appear to have a lot of people who are competing in the CP and other cave clearing projects, but then you have a greater majority who are sitting back and waiting for things to clear.

 

I don't think it has to do with getting "more" "faster" but more like "at some point can I see some recognition for my efforts?" or "can something be done to make me doing this slightly less painful than it is?". The blockers keep getting made, so the work's never done, and if anyone complains about it, the go-to-answer is a condescending, "Well, if you can sit here and complain, why not catch some blockers and be productive instead." Never mind that they may have been doing that all along anyway. The problem is that the blockers never end and it's frustrating.

 

Not just for the people blocked by them, but also for the people who keep trying to bail out this -to use a somewhat ridiculous metaphor- sinking ship with teacups while being told that they really should bail faster if they want to see results.

Edited by Amut un Rama

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(This isn't really a suggestion because I know it would never happen in a bajillion years, but it's this type of thing where I would like a type of controlled, site-okayed multi-scroll. Ie, I love my fairly large earth dragon hatchling army, I really do, but I *also* like keeping a certain "ratio" of sorts of my other favorite dragons. If we were actually allowed a scroll *just* for commons, and it could be somehow linked to our main scroll so that it would be very obvious if anyone was using it for anything other then commons... Personally, I'd even make a freaking mint army (not my favs). But yeah, this is all pointless 'cause it would never happen.)

 

I can get behind a suggestion for little badges for having a certain amount of a common. It's not a *reward* exactly, but it is a nice little incentive.

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I can get behind a suggestion for little badges for having a certain amount of a common. It's not a *reward* exactly, but it is a nice little incentive.

^This. I have been waiting for some badges you actually EARN, other than the magikarp badge. Really, if you expect people to use a large portion of their slots to dragons they don't like to "better the cave" there does need to be some incentive to pick them up other than altruism or quite frankly there never will be any change unless the mechanic itself is changed.

 

I don't support tangible rewards, like eggs or any advantage. But a badge is just a little image that doesn't really affect anything and chances are you won't miss it if you choose not to work towards that badge.

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