Dragon Cave Wiki

[Ruby Eyes]

39 minutes ago, Confused Cat said:

(* = hosting the lineage tiles on my site to use them in the tool.)

I'd suggest asking in the Help section instead. It has a higher chance at catching the right people's attention there, I think.

[bluesonic1]

On 11/01/2018 at 4:47 PM, Aie said:

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but I think it would be great to include each dragon's lineage tile on their wiki page. That would benefit those of us who like to plan out lineages; right now it's difficult to estimate how two breeds' poses will match. (Alternatively, if there exists a lineage viewer that displays tiles the way DC main site does, let me know :D)

Considering the massive amount of hours it would take to do this for 200+ breeds, and that it doesn't provide any extra information (remember that this is the purpose of a wiki in the first place; it is not an image hosting site), I'm strongly opposed to the idea. This is on top of the fact that those tiles get updated from time to time, have slight variances depending on your browser setting, look different depending on your site skin, and is already a tool (even if not 100% accurate, still there) available on most major click/hatching sites.

 

For me primarily it comes down to the fact that the wiki is not an image hosting site, which is also why it doesn't run into the same issues Confused Cat may or may not be facing with a fansite. @Confused Cat: As Ruby Eyes suggested, best ask in the Help forum, I'd like to keep this thread on topic about the wiki.

Edited January 13, 2018 by bluesonic1

[Whirlaway]

I noticed that the Avatar of Creation’s page needs to be updated to show that a Sapphire and Guardian of Nature breeding can create one. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Dorchet

[Dragon_Arbock]

@bluesonic1 What about a beta lineage tile? Right when breed dimorphism was expanded there was a tile for female blacks that didn't match either their new sprite, nor their old sprite. So, I saved it

[Whirlaway]

Hmm, that Black sprite looks pretty cool. I would hoard females more if that was their sprite, haha!

[bluesonic1]

@Dorchet Yeah, the Avatar breeding pages in general have been out of date since the addition of Elemental Affinities to the site. It's on my list to eventually hold a discussion about the future of the breeding article and that information on their articles in general. In the meantime, you can use this category to look up dragons by their Element which in turn will tell you what Avatar they produce (if you've forgotten what makes what, you can find that on the Elements article). Otherwise, until any discussion is held, you're more than welcome to keep that updated- wikis are a collaborative project. As an "admin", I'm just a point of contact for help and guidance. I'm not in charge of a wiki and I don't dictate what happens on it.

 

@Dragon_Arbock Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by beta tiles? The issue still stands that this doesn't provide any new information about a dragon. Their current sprites are there just to show what they look like; wikis have special licensing to do this, and ours in particular has additional copyright licensing attached to each sprite's file page. Wikis aren't image hosting sites and to use it as one goes against Wikia's TOS and could get the whole wiki taken down depending on severity, ownership rules and if a sprite artist puts in a complaint about it. I've been on a wiki that faced disciplinary action from Wikia for being used as image hosting, and I want to keep this wiki far from anything related to this. While we're under the "Fansites" board, we're not really a fansite like other websites- it's a collaborative project to share information and knowledge.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like your idea of having a fansite that can build lineage examples, and I know if there is someone out there with the resources it can be done. If anything, I'd put this as it's own idea to the Suggestion forum, that maybe the site itself could use it's own database of tile images to generate lineage examples in the form of a tool players can use.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@bluesonic1 I'm not Aie, you're talking to me as if I am, and as if you didn't read what I said.

The lineage tile I posted contains an otherwise unused sprite. The tile was used for maybe half a day when the female Blacks got their own sprite, and looks as though the female Blacks were supposed to have a different pose.

 

Also, while I didn't suggest the tile for every dragon thing, I think that wouldn't be breaking the TOS. Have you seen the Sonic wikia? They use a lot more images than you.

[Ruby Eyes]

3 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Also, while I didn't suggest the tile for every dragon thing, I think that wouldn't be breaking the TOS. Have you seen the Sonic wikia? They use a lot more images than you.

Sonic permissions are not Dragcave permissions.

[Dragon_Arbock]

2 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

Sonic permissions are not Dragcave permissions.

They're talking about the TOS of wikia and uploading too many images. Read closer.

[bluesonic1]

@Dragon_Arbock I'm well aware you're not Aie, but if you read what they posted and what I responded with, the two of you are (to my understanding) suggesting the same or similar ideas. If you're going to take an aggressive tone in the thread, then please PM me about the issue from now on- as you asked us to "read closer", please re-read my previous post stating the issue is with using Wikia as image hosting, not that we upload too many images. You can have as many images as you want on a wiki, but if they're not being used appropriately, or resources are being abused, then the wiki will face problems.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@bluesonic1 I am not suggesting the same thing. This image ->  contains what ended up being an unused sprite for the female black dragon.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that. Your wiki is into posting sprites no longer in use. All I was trying to do is help, but nobody can even pay enough attention to what I'm saying to even give me an adequate response.

[Ruby Eyes]

To be honest, I only skim over most of your posts because many of them sting. You tend to fill them with little comments that feel like thorns, you could say - it's a learning process, and people tend to learn to avoid pain. It would probably be much easier to use the ignore feature, but I try to avoid using that one too much, it makes for holey forums.

 

So far there are no bites on the rarity discussion. Would it be any good putting a link to it in my sig and ask for opinions?

[bluesonic1]

@Dragon_Arbock My apologies for the misunderstanding- when you followed up my response to Aie's lineage tile suggestion with "What about a beta lineage tile?", I understood this as you following on from Aie's idea but using beta lineage tiles instead. Which is also why I asked for clarification from you as to what you meant by that: " Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by beta tiles?". As I mentioned to Dorchet a few posts ago, this is not "my" wiki; no wiki admin "owns" a wiki, we are just a point of contact for help and guidance.

 

When it comes to unused sprites, it depends on why it was on the site and up to the artist as to whether it can be hosted or not. For example, there are no old sprites for the original Soulstone Dragon design, and it's not the first instance a spriter has requested the removal of unused sprites. If you know the original spriter, and can get it contact with them, please let me know and we can work out permissions for hosting this lineage tile. I will ask again that any further discussion of this be taken into PM with me as I don't want to see this thread devolve into argument, thanks.

 

@Ruby Eyes You can definitely do so, yes. The more the merrier in terms of discussion! I'll highlight the thread now on the wiki so it can get more attention too.

[Fuzzbucket]

We now have two new global mods (yay!) who are already listed in the wiki. But for some reason Sockpuppet Strangler is still listed on the globals page and is not a global mod any more - in fact, not a mod at all. Surely it is time to remove them from that list, or at the very least indicate that they aren't one any more. You shouldn't have to go to their page to find that out.

 

http://dragcave.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Global_Moderator

 

It's just incorrect, plain and simple. And will only contribute to the idea that the wiki cannot be entirely relied upon for accuracy.

[purpledragonclaw]

^I agree with Fuzzbucket, the staff page should be kept up to date. Khallayne is no longer on that page, and Sock shouldn't be either. Could we get an update on that to remove her, please? 

[bluesonic1]

Please see the discussion on the talk page for why it wasn't moved and why it will eventually be moved. Please keep in mind that the wiki's categories should not be used to track active personnel; this is what the forum is for. Wiki categories are umbrella terms that encompass general subjects, and are used for filing purposes, not educational ones. The articles themselves are educational, and you can find on Sock's page that they are no longer an active moderator.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't actually fully  understand the talk page you linked here - but Sock should not be listed under global mods, just as Khallayne isn't. And it's easy to say the wiki "shouldn't" be used for any given purpose - but people who need info and turn to the wiki for it are the exact kind of people who don't know that.

 

I would agree that the inactive mods section is pretty useless - there and here. But enjoy your trip.

[bluesonic1]

I feel like this situation is similar to the "wiki admin" titleship confusion that happened some time ago- on forums and websites, admins are "in charge", but on wikis they are simply trusted experienced editors who help guide others and foster community. That's how wiki, and Wikia's, principles work, and similarly categories work for a specific purpose on wikis and if people misunderstand that, it's not something we can just change because it's structural to all wikis.

 

Categories are like subject sections in a library; they help group similar articles together so those interested in reading that subject or are looking up something on that subject, can easily find articles related to it. This is also why categories tend to nest within other categories. What the Talk Page was meant to demonstrate is that the "Inactive Mods" category was made to match the "Inactive Mods" title group here on the forums. It was only recently realised that this title group is gone from the forum and they are now just regular members again.

 

Under normal wiki circumstances, the staff members under "Inactive Mods" should return to the category of staff that person used to belong to, because they pertain to that subject; not because they are active or inactive, but because they pertain to that subject. But in response to this community confusion regarding active moderators and the wiki's categories being incorrectly used to track active personnel, we've decided (for now at least) to change the category "Inactive Mods" to "Former Mods" and move users like Sock currently under Mod categories into this new "Former Mods" category. This will take time to take effect, and those wishing to help can do so by moving former moderators from their current category to the "Inactive Mods" category, which will require the use of a bot to then update to a "Former Mods" category.

 

I apologise that people are confused as to what ideas they have on the wiki that may conflict with the foundations of Wikia principles, but we are taking on board the feedback and making changes within those principles that also suit the community's views; I welcome constructive criticism but I'm not a fan of complaints when we are already working on a solution based on the given feedback, and said solution was presented but not read in detail, and met with complaints instead that were already addressed by the solution.

[Fuzzbucket]

No it isn't like that at all. The offending bit - sock's name - on the global mods page has now been removed.

 

That was the only thing I objected to - Sock being listed as a global mod when she isn't one. I simply wanted the global mods page to show a list of the actual global mods - to be accurate. It now does, and I am now fine with it.

[bluesonic1]

While the conversation has been moved to PMs, I would like to make a formal note for everyone moving forward: any and all wiki categories are not active listings of anything. Please treat the wiki like a library, with categories being a collection of books on a particular subject to make browsing for information easier. The personnel categories in particular were never made to represent an active listing of members on the forum, nor will they be treated as so in the future either as no category on the wiki is treated in this way. If you are browsing a category and are confused by an article or category nested in it, please take the time to read said article or category for further information.

[Lucere]

Considering that we are not allowed to have the images of the gusty egg on the forums, should the gusty egg image (and possibly the description as well) be removed from the "currently being released" page? I'm worried that it being there might be a violation of the 60-day secrecy clause and possibly delay the release of "gusties" even further:

 

 

 

[purpledragonclaw]

Thank you Lucere, you beat me to it. Yes, it needs to be removed. Please remove it (along with the description and where it sorts) and only add it back once it is officially released.

[Ruby Eyes]

The image needs to be deleted by a wiki admin, I think. @bluesonic1

I removed the identifying data from the current release page, though it may need to be removed from the page's history, too. That's something only admins can do as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

I went to remove it and it is gone.

[purpledragonclaw]

Thank you all for jumping on this so fast!