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Qualeo

Removing refusal for CB holidays

Should we disable refusal for CB holidays?  

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(I posted this in another thread, but it seems like it probably needs it own separate thread. Its not like "removing refusal" after its already happened. This is making it impossible for a refusal to occur.)

 

Unlike other dragons we have, when one of our CB holidays produce we only have a limited amount before we completely run out. We CAN'T replace CB holidays that refuse, which limits lineages we do if a refusal happens.

 

I propose we simply remove refusal capability for CB holidays so that we the issue of being "irreplaceable" doesn't come up.

 

What I DON'T mean is increasing fertility or anything like that. They're still be able to give no eggs or no interest, but they would not be able to refuse.

 

Yes I understand that refusals happen. It makes sense that sometimes our dragons will refuse. But CB holidays are so limited that refusals can ruin everything in an instant. We can never get new CB holidays after their initial release (And valentines + Christmas are limited to only two). Even with the Halloween dragons we are limited in a way.

Edited by Qualeo

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I support this.

 

However, I would extend it for all holidays, bred or not.

 

It can be made so that a pairing that would have refused has a much lessened breeding rate, but that way there's still the chance for people who are willing to keep at it, so there are still breeding difficulties, just not outright refusals.

 

The reason that I think this could be workable, is because Holidays are already unique in regard to breeding in that they multi-clutch. So I don't think it would be too hard to spin a logical in-game rationale for this. And if we can think of one, then I don't see who would be harmed by this, so I think it would be nice.

 

 

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Support, I've had a couple of very painful Holiday refusals. Fortunately, they were with Halloweens so I was able to get around it.

 

And yea, even for the Holiday x Holiday pairings outside of their holiday, they can give the "no interest" message.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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Support, I've had a couple of very painful Holiday refusals. Fortunately, they were with Halloweens so I was able to get around it.

 

And yea, even for the Holiday x Holiday pairings outside of their holiday, they can give the "no interest" message.

 

Cheers!

C4.

?

 

I thought holiday x holiday outside a holiday you always got a refusal....

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/signed. I wanted to start a Val X Red lineage going through all the Val's starting with the 09's, but my one CB 09 kept refusing any male CB Reds I offered her so I was forced to start with the Sweetlings >.<

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?

 

I thought holiday x holiday outside a holiday you always got a refusal....

I think that they're saying that if we removed Holiday refusals then you could still prevent Holiday x Holiday breeding by always giving a "no interest" message.

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I don't have much of an opinion either way since I'm still new enough to not have much experience with breeding or lineages and no opportunities yet to collect holiday dragons, but just to clarify: Are you asking for no refusals from holiday dragons, period, or simply no refusals from holiday x holiday pairings?

 

In the former case, you're really only limited by how much time, effort, and luck you're willing to expend acquiring more of the non-holiday dragon- you could hypothetically go through a dozen low-gen shimmers before getting one that's compatible, but you could still do it if you wanted that pairing badly enough. In the case of the latter, the limitations are absolute; if neither of your CB Rosebuds will breed with your CB Heartseeker, you're shut out of that pairing entirely, and the breed limits mean it may be impossible to even build off of others' lineages by egg-trading if you're already at your maximum.

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I don't have much of an opinion either way since I'm still new enough to not have much experience with breeding or lineages and no opportunities yet to collect holiday dragons, but just to clarify:  Are you asking for no refusals from holiday dragons, period, or simply no refusals from holiday x holiday pairings? 

 

In the former case, you're really only limited by how much time, effort, and luck you're willing to expend acquiring more of the non-holiday dragon- you could hypothetically go through a dozen low-gen shimmers before getting one that's compatible, but you could still do it if you wanted that pairing badly enough.  In the case of the latter, the limitations are absolute; if neither of your CB Rosebuds will breed with your CB Heartseeker, you're shut out of that pairing entirely, and the breed limits mean it may be impossible to even build off of others' lineages by egg-trading if you're already at your maximum.

Refusals for Holiday x Anything is turned off during that dragon's holiday breeding period.

 

There aren't that many dragons that aren't replaceable, but there are some - CB Prizes (Tinsels, Shimmers, honorable mentions like CB alts), Spriter's alts, Old Pinks. Most of those are things people will never have, but the Old Pinks are more wide-spread, often used for lineages, and a refusal there can definitely be a problem.

 

Mostly, though, I just don't think it would actually hurt anything to change this, especially if refusal was replace by low breeding success.

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I don't have much of an opinion either way since I'm still new enough to not have much experience with breeding or lineages and no opportunities yet to collect holiday dragons, but just to clarify:  Are you asking for no refusals from holiday dragons, period, or simply no refusals from holiday x holiday pairings? 

 

In the former case, you're really only limited by how much time, effort, and luck you're willing to expend acquiring more of the non-holiday dragon- you could hypothetically go through a dozen low-gen shimmers before getting one that's compatible, but you could still do it if you wanted that pairing badly enough.  In the case of the latter, the limitations are absolute; if neither of your CB Rosebuds will breed with your CB Heartseeker, you're shut out of that pairing entirely, and the breed limits mean it may be impossible to even build off of others' lineages by egg-trading if you're already at your maximum.

 

Well yes in a way it is possible to replace the other dragon if your holiday dragon refuses. But even then, a lot of those would be difficult to replace. For example: CB golds and silvers are replaceable, but they can still be difficult to find.

 

I think the kind of effort in getting the first one shouldn't need to be repeated again. Especially if the effort was tremendous. Not only do you need to get the egg again, but it needs to be the same gender as the original. There's always a chance for influence to fail as well. (This is more for the Christmas/Valentine dragons though since they are single genders only).

 

And, as you said, if you want to do a holiday X holiday breeding it would be impossible as well if something refused.

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The easiest solution I find with this is simple. Replace the one that refused the CB Holiday (you shouldn't be breeding holiday/holiday except during their season anyways). My CB Rosebud refused TWO CB males before I got one she would breed with. With lineaged ones, just ask for a replacement offspring of that lineage to try with your CB holiday, again this is possible.

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It can be made so that a pairing that would have refused has a much lessened breeding rate, but that way there's still the chance for people who are willing to keep at it, so there are still breeding difficulties, just not outright refusals.

 

The reason that I think this could be workable, is because Holidays are already unique in regard to breeding in that they multi-clutch.  So I don't think it would be too hard to spin a logical in-game rationale for this. And if we can think of one, then I don't see who would be harmed by this, so I think it would be nice.

I've only got CBs of the most recent Holiday trio, but I support this. If outside of the holiday, you wanted a Wrapping/Horse egg [would be a Horse], but it kept refusing, there's only so many times you can get a CB of the mate. Yes, Horses are easy to find, but not all [un]Commons are.

 

 

And what about Tinsels and other Prize dragons? Those are a "one time CB only" dragon as well, right?

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The easiest solution I find with this is simple. Replace the one that refused the CB Holiday (you shouldn't be breeding holiday/holiday except during their season anyways). My CB Rosebud refused TWO CB males before I got one she would breed with. With lineaged ones, just ask for a replacement offspring of that lineage to try with your CB holiday, again this is possible.

Well the thing is, we do have irreplaceable dragons like CB prizes that DO breed all year long. Those can never be replaced if they refuse the holiday mates (And as we know, the CB holiday mates can't be refused either). I know that affects a minority of the cave, but people would still like these kinds of lineages possible from each different prize dragon.

 

CB metals are also hard to replace, though they can be replaced. even with all the metals we're seeing right now, its still hard to get a CB metal.

 

The other issue is that sometimes the dragons we get for these holidays are not from us. Not everyone would be willing to replace a dragon that has managed to refuse the only mates it has possible.

 

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The easiest solution I find with this is simple. Replace the one that refused the CB Holiday (you shouldn't be breeding holiday/holiday except during their season anyways). My CB Rosebud refused TWO CB males before I got one she would breed with. With lineaged ones, just ask for a replacement offspring of that lineage to try with your CB holiday, again this is possible.

While I myself will always replace a common / uncommon that refused / gendered wrong, not everyone is willing to. And in the case of Metals, I often won't replace.

 

And what of the lineages you've gotten from the AP? Many times, there's no way to contact the breeder of said egg, and so no way to get a replacement.

 

C4.

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If people want an "RP sense" justification for this--Holidays have extremely limited breeding seasons. It'd make sense that they'd thus be very keen on breeding when the time came, because otherwise they miss out on a whole year's worth of breeding potential. I like to think most dragons are highly intelligent, sentient creatures, so I don't think they'd be so crazed during the breeding season that they'd even go for another dragon they hate, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine they'd select a mate (or even just a dragon they could tolerate, haha) well before the season started.

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If people want an "RP sense" justification for this--Holidays have extremely limited breeding seasons. It'd make sense that they'd thus be very keen on breeding when the time came, because otherwise they miss out on a whole year's worth of breeding potential. I like to think most dragons are highly intelligent, sentient creatures, so I don't think they'd be so crazed during the breeding season that they'd even go for another dragon they hate, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine they'd select a mate (or even just a dragon they could tolerate, haha) well before the season started.

That's a justification for what we already have, refusal removal during holiday breeding season. This is for removal for the REST of the year.

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I'll throw a suggestion out here. Please read it all before you beat me with sticks. laugh.gif

 

This is pretty much sacrilege to suggest, but I think it would address this issue and one other that is not related to this suggestion but does come up a lot.

 

What if there was a tiny, miniscule, infinitesimal, and many other adjectives meaning almost never ever gonna happen, chance of a Holiday breeding off season. I'm talking like 5 a year or something total.

 

Here's why I think it would solve:

 

1. Why would a Holiday never refuse a mate?

 

If a Holiday had even the slightest chance of reproducing others of its breed, then it would seem reasonable that it would jump on it. Because, if you think about it, we catch them and then all of the ones like them disappear for nearly the entire year. It makes sense that they would be very driven to try to increase their numbers.

 

2. Why would the other dragon never refuse a mate?

 

Animals breeding habits often involve things that provide them with the best chance of passing on their genes. Breeding with a Holiday would result in a 99.9999999999999% chance of their breed being produced, so it's reasonable that they would jump at the chance.

 

Out of season breeding is not unheard of with animals, and this is really a teeny tiny amount that changes pretty much almost nothing with the Holiday numbers but does provide an in-game rationale for the suggestion.

 

And yes, I get that it's tradition, but this is a small change that doesn't really have a negative impact (that I can see but I've missed tons of things before lol), but does allow players to not end up unable to make a pairing out of dragons that are severely limited. And since the limit has always been about sharing with other players, I think it would be nice to remove one of the downsides of that.

 

As for Halloweens, which are not limited in number, but are by time available, I think that the suggestion should apply for them because it addresses the other, unrelated issue I mentioned.

 

First of all, the out of season breeding rationale above can still be used to apply to Halloweens.

 

Second, if we do that, then people can get CB Halloween and V Day dragons in the raffle, which a lot of people would like at least the chance to choose if they win.

 

You have to figure that since none of us can find CB Hollies or CB colored Stripes, CB alt Blacks/Vines, or CB Frills, that whoever the cave has hunting down prize dragons is far, far, far superior to us. So if they can track down those dragons, and if we've allowed the tiniest bit of out of season breeding for Holidays, then it stands to reason that the mysterious cave hunter could locate some of those off season Holiday breeds.

 

Okay, the pummeling can begin. xd.png But I'd like to mention that there are already suggestions - like raising the limits for bred Holiday dragons - the tweak tradition and seem to enjoy a lot of support, so I don't think it would be too awful to tweak this one that really makes very little impact in general and will spread a bit of happiness.

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I was on the Ropes between 'Remove for all' and 'Remove for Valentine/Christmas Only'

 

I went for the latter for the following reason:

 

With Halloween eggs - there is no limit, thus - even though Black Marrow 1 refused to breed with Silver 1...there is no worry if you have a refusal as you could just get another Marrow and try again next year.

 

Plus - if the system stops and/or resets all refusals - and you had tried a Christmas/Valentines x Halloween dragon cross in the past. With the new change - that pair would now work.

 

And if it didn't - at least you can catch another Halloween dragon of the same type and try again.

 

*However, either way - I won't complain if either one of the 'refusal removals' gets through.

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Full support

My CB Gold flat out refused my only CB Shadow Walker. it'd be a hassle to replace that Gold. I'm always nervous when it comes to breeding a CB holiday with a rare dragon.

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I support removing refusals for all CB holidays, because CBs are limited to whatever you managed to catch that event, which makes it an unfortunate occasion if your one dragon that you want to continue this rare lineage decides to refuse all holidays that you have. I mean, I've never had that happen to me, but I'd be miffed if it did.

skauble's justifications are more than enough for me, RP-wise, although I'm not sure about out-of-season holiday breeding. They'd just seem like limited rares to me if that happened (like CB prizes).

Edited by Shadowdrake

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I voted "No" because I don't think the site should treat CB dragons differently from bred dragons.

 

However, I wouldn't object to disabling refusals for all holiday dragons.

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Hm, how about the refusal is really turned off 1-2 days prior to the event they normally breed to obtain the other desired breed?

Plus on the event itself they breed the event dragon egg. Some tried their events before and got a refuse. So they will be able to get the event too.

 

Mostly its about tinsels/shimmers/metals to continue the stairs?

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Mostly its about tinsels/shimmers/metals to continue the stairs?

I think Old Pinks and Frills would also fall under this. And while I do think a lot of this is about Tinsels/Shimmers, the fact is that it can be hard with even-gens because those are often built by a myriad of people, so getting a replacement egg to then breed with the Holiday can sometimes be difficult, even if the breed you need is common.

 

Part of why I wouldn't mind this (although, as I said before, for CB and bred Holidays), is because the reason that they're limited is as an expression of giving to other players who don't have any. So if we can easily eliminate a frustration from that, especially by changing almost nothing, I think it's a nice idea.

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