ANSWERED:Give Concept Creators Credit In-Site

[Fiona]

@Sheppardkid and blueberryjr1, sketch artists do get credit. They always have. To use their sketch publicly they need to be given credit.

 

If you see a set of sprites released with only one artist credited it means that artist sketched, lined, colored and shaded, all by themselves. It does not mean all they did was make the sprite.

 

edit: right now credit is given like this:

 

Art Copyright © <artist's name>

 

Giving credit to the person who came up with the idea, when (and only when) they contributed a fully fleshed out dragon concept, would look something like:

Art Copyright © Fiona BlueFire, Nakase

Concept Credit: Fiona BlueFire

Edited April 16, 2013 by Fiona BlueFire

[senyi]

I support!

 

I suppose that they gave the idea, so they do deserve some credit to a certain degree^^;

[Dawnfur]

I support for reasons already listed.

After all, the dragon wouldn't exist if the conceptor didn't create it.

[sheppardkid]

@ Fiona- Oh, okay. I always thought that two names or more meant that those artists helped with the sprites. I didn't realize that the sketch artist got credit on the final sprites.

[Fiona]

I think that fact is not as well known as it should be, sheppardkid. For example, there's a sprite set on the completed list where only the person who did the actual sprites is credited, but I did one of the adult sketches and someone else mostly did the other. I haven't quibbled about it, but if I knew the sprites were going to be released I would. Obviously the sprite artist or OP there didn't know the sketch artists should get credit. Yet, because the sketch is my work I could at any time pull it and tell the sprite artist they can't use it.

 

There can be a lot of ins and outs on art credits. It's not always just a matter of legality and CYA, but also courtesy.

[Dustydragon]

I think the real issue here is that you need special skills and talents to sketch or to sprite, whereas to come up with a dragon concept, all you need is creativity. I understand that it isn't something everybody has, but it's not a learned skill.

 

My point is, anyone who can sprite can come up with a dragon concept. Not everybody who can come up with a concept can sprite. We could make a rule that all creators have to make their own sprites, and we'd still have enough new dragons being made to have them released regularly.

WHOA! did I just read that right?

Let me put on my glasses......yup I read that right.

 

Where did you get your information? Out of the cracker jack box?

 

I for one can not come up with a concept if my life depended on it, yet I can sketch. No, I have never sketched for DC and I don't plan to.

 

These concepts do not come out of thin air, and seriously if it wasn't for some of these people, there wouldn't be this site. Ya sure, so what, some of the spriters know how to concept, but you know what? Sure would be a boring site after awhile.

 

Plus, pretty soon, TJ would have to start either asking for more spriters or even start putting out pay, because that would be a lot of work for the amount of dragons we have on the site right now.

 

Think about it.

 

Not giving the people who think up these amazing dragons credit...wow that is just causing a war. Soon, these people are going to band together and take their business else where. To someone else, who will pay for their ideas, who will give them credit. Where will you be then? Stuck with a bunch of spriters who can sprite, and possibly some who can come up with a dragon idea or two.

 

Good luck with that. LOL

[Fiona]

WHOA! did I just read that right?

Let me put on my glasses......yup I read that right.

 

Where did you get your information? Out of the cracker jack box?

 

I for one can not come up with a concept if my life depended on it, yet I can sketch. No, I have never sketched for DC and I don't plan to.

 

These concepts do not come out of thin air, and seriously if it wasn't for some of these people, there wouldn't be this site. Ya sure, so what, some of the spriters know how to concept, but you know what? Sure would be a boring site after awhile.

 

Plus, pretty soon, TJ would have to start either asking for more spriters or even start putting out pay, because that would be a lot of work for the amount of dragons we have on the site right now.

 

Think about it.

 

Not giving the people who think up these amazing dragons credit...wow that is just causing a war. Soon, these people are going to band together and take their business else where. To someone else, who will pay for their ideas, who will give them credit. Where will you be then? Stuck with a bunch of spriters who can sprite, and possibly some who can come up with a dragon idea or two.

 

Good luck with that.  LOL

I totally disagree with your judgements here.

 

First of all, if a person is creative enough to sprite, chances are extremely high they are creative enough to use their imagination to come up with viable, detailed concepts. So, the artists who can't concept are going to be in the extreme minority. Your logic is flawed.

 

Second, judging by the number of good concepts with art that are hanging around waiting to be released, there is zero chance TJ will even need to worry about not having enough. There are many talented artists still waiting for their chance to become on-site artists. Many originated concepts, and there are more trying their hand at sprites/concepts all the time. So, there's no need to worry about running out. Ever.

 

Third, the complaints about "boring" concepts are based on not recognizing the changes that have taken place in dragon concepts over the course of the game. The earliest dragons on the site were never thought through as concepts with the attention to detail that the newer concepts are getting. If you were to sort dragon breeds by their release date you would see that as time goes on more and more detail is put into the story behind the dragon breeds. You can't sneer at artists and claim they can't come up with interesting concepts based on the fact that the site has evolved.

 

So, while I don't agree that people who propose concepts ought also be require to do the artwork, you can't conclude that the dragons concepts would be too few or too boring if that rule were put in place.

 

 

In rebuttal to your post then, we wouldn't need luck. We'd do fantastically. No pay needed.

[deadnotsleeping]

Despite my three eggs. I'm actually pretty new to the site, and not that active. So i really have no way of knowing how these things work. I know that the people who draw up the dragon art get the new dragons, without needing to catch them. I think. I know that some of the artists get alts of the dragons.

 

is it the same with the people who create the dragon? like, come up with the descriptions and such?

[Mousia]

Walker got a conceptor's alt for the Arsanii dragon. Other than that, I know of no conceptor who got an alt or something. *shrug*

[deadnotsleeping]

they did? hmm

 

it still doesn't make sense to me, is all. one could argue that as much effort goes into conceptualizing the dragon as it does drawing it.

[Obscure_Trash]

~Merged since I think you meant this as a suggestion and not just a question~

 

Just going to clear up a few things:

-Spriters have to catch their own dragons, except for prize dragon spriters who are given their one spriters alt, because they obviously can't catch a cb on their own. =p

-Alts are only for prizes/holidays.

-AFAIK Walker is the only conceptor who has helped concept for a prize or holiday dragon. Due to the overwhelming positive feedback from users when Walker shared the info they had come up for them, TJ allowed for her to have an alt.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Actually, even the creators of dragons must go and catch them, same as everyone else. As for alts--yes, creators of dragons can get alts, but only for Holiday dragons. A normal release won't net the spriter an alt of it.

 

People who come up with dragon concepts don't currently get credit, although there's a discussion to try to get them such. The main issue is that, while some concept creators do a ton of work and put a lot of thought into the idea and totally deserve credit, there are also people who say "here's an idea for a purple, fiery-winged dragon that lives in the jungle"* and then poof without ever providing art or feedback or guidance to the thread. So it's hard to determine where the line will be drawn regarding which conceptors deserve credit and which don't (although I still think all is better than none).

 

*Alright, people are actually required to put more thought than this into a dragon request nowadays before mods will approve the thread's creation, but even so there are people who only come up with basic ideas and then promptly vanish.

 

Edit: Sock, wasn't Walker given her alt before she posted the info? I never heard of her getting one after the fact, I thought she had it from the start...?

Edited September 11, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[deadnotsleeping]

Actually, even the creators of dragons must go and catch them, same as everyone else. As for alts--yes, creators of dragons can get alts, but only for Holiday dragons. A normal release won't net the spriter an alt of it.

 

Just going to clear up a few things:

-Spriters have to catch their own dragons, except for prize dragon spriters who are given their one spriters alt, because they obviously can't catch a cb on their own. =p

-Alts are only for prizes/holidays.

-AFAIK Walker is the only conceptor who has helped concept for a prize or holiday dragon. Due to the overwhelming positive feedback from users when Walker shared the info they had come up for them, TJ allowed for her to have an alt.

 

like i said, im kinda new, so i didnt really know

 

I just think that, will the level of detail some of these conceptors have to come up with, specially if they cant draw, there should be some kind of recognition for it. Sure if they request a generic dragon that breaths fire its not likely to get chosen for release anyway.

 

but there are dragons out there that took some real, serious thought, and people just ignore them, because there's no picture...

[Syphoneira]

The originators of concepts used to make books and movies get credit.

 

Fathers don't actually build the babies, just provide the seed and some itty-bitty genes that essentially start the process, but they get credit.

 

If I quote somebody, they get credit.

 

Anybody producing a well-fleshed out concept for something that gets produced should get credit.

 

That concept existed because they created it, even if somebody else constructed the manifestation of it, and why should they then be unmentioned?

 

This doesn't even seem polite to me.

 

 

[igloo9201]

I think that concept creators should get credit! The DC wiki makes it look like workers come up with all of the behaviors and everything.

[dustpuppy]

I agree that it would be nice to give credit to concept creators.

 

People who don't think the description matters can just ignore the credit, it's just all the way at the bottom in tiny letters anyway. But people (like me) who love reading descriptions and appreciate a well-written and original concept may like to see who did this great work.

 

I still love the sprites most of all and admire the talent of spriters very much, and I don't think for a moment that giving credit for the idea would take away any bit of credit from the sprite artist.

[Nectaris]

I think that concept creators should get credit! The DC wiki makes it look like workers come up with all of the behaviors and everything.

Well sometimes the spriters ARE the conceptors, so yes, they do know their dragon's behavior. The majority of the time with the wiki, the dragons that have the most info available are ones the spriters themselves came up with.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Nectaris

[Nyastara]

First of all YES concept artists should be credited too.

 

I don't wand to belittle the work the spriters do, because I love their work. But I also love the fantastic ideas which their sprites are based on. Because without this base it wouldn't be the same dragon...(mostly not always... sometimes someone makes a sprite and then creates a fitting background story).

 

I think that concept creators should get credit! The DC wiki makes it look like workers come up with all of the behaviors and everything.

That's because the additional information we have is mostly of dragons whose spriters are also the conceptors. (like Nectaris said) Sadly you don't hear that much of the conceptors (when they didn't help with the spriting) after the release of "their" dragon, but if we do, we gladly add the information they're willing to share. I personally would love to add more information to all of the dragons and that's why I support this idea.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Nyastara

[Fuzzbucket]

If I were ever to "create" a dragon, my bit would be the words. I can't draw AT ALL, and spriting would be beyond me. And I would take a LONG time getting those words - a lot of them - just as I wanted, to make sure the sprites ended up the way I envisioned them. I wouldn't be looking for credit, as such, but I do think it is deserved. Often the spriters could not produce the beautiful work they do without the inspiration of the conceptor's words. I realise some uber-talented spriters do do both the concept and the art - but not all do.

[Cecona]

Definitely a yes from me, I have been thinking about this for a long time. I first noticed that the concept creators were never credited, and only the spriters ever get credit and it's misleading, it makes people think the spriters did all the work. I have a concept of my own for a type of dragon and I better get credit for it! Even if it's just my name at the bottom of the page. I've experienced it before where I came up with an idea and someone helped me with it and then ended up taking all the credit for it.

 

And do you people even realize how insulting it is to say "they don't need credit, anyone can come up with soandso, but it takes real talent to draw/sprite" Okay then, so all those harry potter movies give credit to the director, not the author of the books? OR the writers of the script? Movies always tell you in the credits who came up with the idea, who wrote it, who helped with casting, make up, lighting, catering- they give credit to every little cog that makes a movie what it is.

 

You always give credit, no matter what it is and it's insane that the concept creators are never spoken of outside the thread that the dragon was made.

[Crocodile]

I think that conceptors should be credited. Yes, it's true that it's usually much easier for someone to make a concept than a sprite. But, if the dragon makes it all the way onto the site, then it's obvious that the concept was a pretty good one. The conceptor and the spriter both contributed to the process, and the dragon wouldn't have been completed without the work of both of them.

[stellalala]

I think that concept creators should get credit in-site.

 

I have considered submitting a concept, but I decided not to because the conceptors do not get credit. The conceptors are the ones who envisioned the dragon; they are the ones who helped bring it to life. They definitely deserve credit.

[Syphoneira]

I honestly don't know why people are arguing against giving people credit for their own brainchild - what does it hurt to be fair to the concept creators?

 

If you had a fleshed-out concept for a novel or movie and were collaborating with a writer who, using your ideas and plot, then got a contract and this was published/produced without even mentioning you, you'd have reason to freak - why is this somehow supposed to be different for this type of visual art created according to a fleshed-out concept?

 

And obviously, simply saying something general like, 'oh, boy meets girl and hilarious mix-ups occur' or 'there's this dragon and it breathes fire' wouldn't qualify for credit in such cases, but many things have to be assessed on a case-by case basis, and a solid, unique dragon concept is pretty easily recognizable, after all.

[Fiona]

Who is saying conceptors shouldn't get credit? It looks to me like pretty positive feedback on the idea. There are a few cautions.

[Syphoneira]

Who is saying conceptors shouldn't get credit? It looks to me like pretty positive feedback on the idea. There are a few cautions.

 

 

This is good!

 

Lol, I must have picked up the wrong impression from somewhere, probably due to sleepy-time brain-fail.